comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
some folk voted to leave the UK
THIS MEANY LEAVING THE EU
No time scales for getting admission
No absolute we would even have met the criteria but if we did we were at the back
Strangely never mentioned or at least with no great concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Leave campaign lobbied for Brexit-and have now came out and said there's no rush to invoke article 50.
They've went into this with no plan and no idea what to do if they won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly no defined plan.
I don't really think they thought they would win
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They probably didn't, but they could at least have made some plans. And if they haven't, then it kinda makes a bit of a mockery of the people that voted for them. They've enticed people to vote for them with a view of a utopian British society-and they've no idea how to progress it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
time will tell I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Time has already told. They could have outlined their plans today. They should have outlined their plans and a timetable in the lead up to the vote. We have now went down a path on a wing and a prayer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps,,, possibly even....
It does remind me of our ref where weeks before we were still debating where we could use the pound.
THE SNP have existed for 100s of years yet didn't have that sorted.
As I understand it will take up to 3 years to disentangle
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 4 minutes ago
No-you did say about restricting sales-I've quoted you directly. I've seen you comment on other threads about how others are implying that the EU won't want to trade-which hasn't been said.
My point is that now the decision has been made, they want us to go now. Trigger the 2 years notice and it's been on the news that the member states have said no extensions to this. They've been quoted as saying it will not be amicable. Doesn't sound like they want to do is any favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have no mechsnism to force it. Its upto the UK to invoke article 50. And it will be on our timescales irrespective of what the EU wants
Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. Thier is no doubt thr EU will want to & will continue to trade with the UK who import more than they export to the EU.
They will not raise barriers that are detrimebtal to their own economies. The most likely scenario for negotiations will be a Norway-type solution that will allow the free-movement of LABOUR only in return for maintaining exusting trade deals. Sovereignty of laws and free movement of EU citizens as a right will be revoked.
Back to the question of Switzerland also, im well aware of the rules they abide by. But its a two way street too. Switzerland allows free movement under Schengen but not free movement of labour. Switzerland uses a visa system for work and migration both for EU and non EU citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, why did you ask what rules they have to abide by if you knew them so well?!? Weird...
In essence then, we more than likely will have to still contribute financially to the EU, without having a say in the decision making. We will probably either have to allow free movement of labour, or free movement of people. Oh-and agree to EU regulations.
We've really taken back control then.
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ask yourself this.Which is the greater priority for the EU project - keeping countries inside the EU or sales of BMW cars to the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW is one of many though
The whole thing will collapse if they miss out on sales
They will keep fek all countries in if they restrict what is a big market for its members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many including BMW that provide jobs in the UK.Are you suggesting that the UK can dictate terms to the EU? When it comes to trade negotiations there is no doubt who carries the bigger stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOK THINK ABOUT IT
How do Norway or the Swiss or the Middle east or the far East or Australia or just about everyfrignwhere do business with the EU.
They manage this quite well.
The EU is no about to cut its nose off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not-but they're not going to just bend over and let us decide the terms.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
The different countries residents and the lobbying companies and businesses will dictate what happens as regards trade deals I'll guess. Not some jumped up faceless autocrats stating some kind of revenge tactics.
You think Merkel will allow all her exports to dry up to the UK when they are by far now the biggest contributer and won't be telling Juncker to cool his jets?
Wait and see. It's one day in.
Markets already recovering and currency back to what it was at the beginning of the week.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The dead cat bounce.
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
some folk voted to leave the UK
THIS MEANY LEAVING THE EU
No time scales for getting admission
No absolute we would even have met the criteria but if we did we were at the back
Strangely never mentioned or at least with no great concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Leave campaign lobbied for Brexit-and have now came out and said there's no rush to invoke article 50.
They've went into this with no plan and no idea what to do if they won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly no defined plan.
I don't really think they thought they would win
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They probably didn't, but they could at least have made some plans. And if they haven't, then it kinda makes a bit of a mockery of the people that voted for them. They've enticed people to vote for them with a view of a utopian British society-and they've no idea how to progress it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
time will tell I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Time has already told. They could have outlined their plans today. They should have outlined their plans and a timetable in the lead up to the vote. We have now went down a path on a wing and a prayer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps,,, possibly even....
It does remind me of our ref where weeks before we were still debating where we could use the pound.
THE SNP have existed for 100s of years yet didn't have that sorted.
As I understand it will take up to 3 years to disentangle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think the SNP have been about for 100s of years?!?
They did say they wanted to keep the pound. They said they wanted to negotiate on the use of the pound. It was the No side and the BOE who said they didn't want to deal on it.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ask yourself this.Which is the greater priority for the EU project - keeping countries inside the EU or sales of BMW cars to the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW is one of many though
The whole thing will collapse if they miss out on sales
They will keep fek all countries in if they restrict what is a big market for its members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many including BMW that provide jobs in the UK.Are you suggesting that the UK can dictate terms to the EU? When it comes to trade negotiations there is no doubt who carries the bigger stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOK THINK ABOUT IT
How do Norway or the Swiss or the Middle east or the far East or Australia or just about everyfrignwhere do business with the EU.
They manage this quite well.
The EU is no about to cut its nose off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not-but they're not going to just bend over and let us decide the terms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they will do exactly as they do in the vast majority of markets.
They wont bend over
They will do what is best for them
We will do what is best for us
Exactly as every other country does.
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
some folk voted to leave the UK
THIS MEANY LEAVING THE EU
No time scales for getting admission
No absolute we would even have met the criteria but if we did we were at the back
Strangely never mentioned or at least with no great concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Leave campaign lobbied for Brexit-and have now came out and said there's no rush to invoke article 50.
They've went into this with no plan and no idea what to do if they won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly no defined plan.
I don't really think they thought they would win
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They probably didn't, but they could at least have made some plans. And if they haven't, then it kinda makes a bit of a mockery of the people that voted for them. They've enticed people to vote for them with a view of a utopian British society-and they've no idea how to progress it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
time will tell I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Time has already told. They could have outlined their plans today. They should have outlined their plans and a timetable in the lead up to the vote. We have now went down a path on a wing and a prayer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps,,, possibly even....
It does remind me of our ref where weeks before we were still debating where we could use the pound.
THE SNP have existed for 100s of years yet didn't have that sorted.
As I understand it will take up to 3 years to disentangle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think the SNP have been about for 100s of years?!?
They did say they wanted to keep the pound. They said they wanted to negotiate on the use of the pound. It was the No side and the BOE who said they didn't want to deal on it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok since 1934 so just 82 years to discuss currency usage in the even of getting their only aim of independence
They were still nowhere a week before voting.
That does not mean I disagree the exit folk are unprepared
They might well be
Time WILL tell.
And they will do it from a stronger bargaining position.
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 minute ago
And they will do it from a stronger bargaining position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry-this was to your previous post about the bending over....
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 second ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 4 minutes ago
No-you did say about restricting sales-I've quoted you directly. I've seen you comment on other threads about how others are implying that the EU won't want to trade-which hasn't been said.
My point is that now the decision has been made, they want us to go now. Trigger the 2 years notice and it's been on the news that the member states have said no extensions to this. They've been quoted as saying it will not be amicable. Doesn't sound like they want to do is any favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have no mechsnism to force it. Its upto the UK to invoke article 50. And it will be on our timescales irrespective of what the EU wants
Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. Thier is no doubt thr EU will want to & will continue to trade with the UK who import more than they export to the EU.
They will not raise barriers that are detrimebtal to their own economies. The most likely scenario for negotiations will be a Norway-type solution that will allow the free-movement of LABOUR only in return for maintaining exusting trade deals. Sovereignty of laws and free movement of EU citizens as a right will be revoked.
Back to the question of Switzerland also, im well aware of the rules they abide by. But its a two way street too. Switzerland allows free movement under Schengen but not free movement of labour. Switzerland uses a visa system for work and migration both for EU and non EU citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, why did you ask what rules they have to abide by if you knew them so well?!? Weird...
In essence then, we more than likely will have to still contribute financially to the EU, without having a say in the decision making. We will probably either have to allow free movement of labour, or free movement of people. Oh-and agree to EU regulations.
We've really taken back control then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because i thought u knew something i didnt
Not sure if there will be a financial contribution. But quite possible simply for access to the markey. But access will require some compromise. That's clear because they will want to discourage others from exiting. But they will not impose tariffs on imports or exports. That makes no financial sense to the their respective economies. There will be no free movement of people in the sense of migration. But i would be pretty sure part of any compromise to access the single market will involve some movement of labour. That is very different to what we have now. How it will actually look remains to be seen but it will not involve people just turning up without a job. There will be no automatic right to entry. They may wven adopt a swiss style system which requires visa for employment and migration but free movement otherwise e.g for education and travel..
The government wouldn't discuss the use of the pound.
SNP were clear that was the currency.
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ask yourself this.Which is the greater priority for the EU project - keeping countries inside the EU or sales of BMW cars to the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW is one of many though
The whole thing will collapse if they miss out on sales
They will keep fek all countries in if they restrict what is a big market for its members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many including BMW that provide jobs in the UK.Are you suggesting that the UK can dictate terms to the EU? When it comes to trade negotiations there is no doubt who carries the bigger stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOK THINK ABOUT IT
How do Norway or the Swiss or the Middle east or the far East or Australia or just about everyfrignwhere do business with the EU.
They manage this quite well.
The EU is no about to cut its nose off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But the difference is the UK is choosing to leave the EU. The EU leaders will want to discourage others from leaving and will want to protect the Euro. That is there priority.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but its NOT the priority of the businesses that pay the taxes that pay for the very existence of the EU
If you seriously think the MD of BMW or Audi or Meile or Rowenta or ThyssenKrupp or Seimans or Saint Gobam or Nestle or Peugeot or Phillips are going to say ok we will review our budgets down and make it difficult to sell in one of our largest markets then you are barking mad.
Look I voted to stay in
I could do without this
But this argument is flawed to extreme.
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
The different countries residents and the lobbying companies and businesses will dictate what happens as regards trade deals I'll guess. Not some jumped up faceless autocrats stating some kind of revenge tactics.
You think Merkel will allow all her exports to dry up to the UK when they are by far now the biggest contributer and won't be telling Juncker to cool his jets?
Wait and see. It's one day in.
Markets already recovering and currency back to what it was at the beginning of the week.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The dead cat bounce.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heisenberg, Schrodinger and Ohm are in a car. They get pulled over. Heisenberg is driving and the cop asks him "Do you know how fast you were going?" "No, but I know exactly where I am" Heisenberg replies. The cop says "You were doing 55 in a 35." Heisenberg throws up his hands and shouts "Great! Now I'm lost!" The cop thinks this is suspicious and orders him to pop open the trunk. He checks it out and says "Do you know you have a dead cat back here?" "We do now, a55hole!" shouts Schrodinger. The cop moves to arrest them. Ohm resists.
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 2 minutes ago
The government wouldn't discuss the use of the pound.
SNP were clear that was the currency.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
should have been discussingit in 1935 though
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 second ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 4 minutes ago
No-you did say about restricting sales-I've quoted you directly. I've seen you comment on other threads about how others are implying that the EU won't want to trade-which hasn't been said.
My point is that now the decision has been made, they want us to go now. Trigger the 2 years notice and it's been on the news that the member states have said no extensions to this. They've been quoted as saying it will not be amicable. Doesn't sound like they want to do is any favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have no mechsnism to force it. Its upto the UK to invoke article 50. And it will be on our timescales irrespective of what the EU wants
Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. Thier is no doubt thr EU will want to & will continue to trade with the UK who import more than they export to the EU.
They will not raise barriers that are detrimebtal to their own economies. The most likely scenario for negotiations will be a Norway-type solution that will allow the free-movement of LABOUR only in return for maintaining exusting trade deals. Sovereignty of laws and free movement of EU citizens as a right will be revoked.
Back to the question of Switzerland also, im well aware of the rules they abide by. But its a two way street too. Switzerland allows free movement under Schengen but not free movement of labour. Switzerland uses a visa system for work and migration both for EU and non EU citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, why did you ask what rules they have to abide by if you knew them so well?!? Weird...
In essence then, we more than likely will have to still contribute financially to the EU, without having a say in the decision making. We will probably either have to allow free movement of labour, or free movement of people. Oh-and agree to EU regulations.
We've really taken back control then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because i thought u knew something i didnt
Not sure if there will be a financial contribution. But quite possible simply for access to the markey. But access will require some compromise. That's clear because they will want to discourage others from exiting. But they will not impose tariffs on imports or exports. That makes no financial sense to the their respective economies. There will be no free movement of people in the sense of migration. But i would be pretty sure part of any compromise to access the single market will involve some movement of labour. That is very different to what we have now. How it will actually look remains to be seen but it will not involve people just turning up without a job. There will be no automatic right to entry. They may wven adopt a swiss style system which requires visa for employment and migration but free movement otherwise e.g for education and travel..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won't need to impose tariffs if we have to make a financial contribution.
As for the rest, watching the news tonight and listening to the radio today a lot of people were talking about their reasons for voting were to do with immigration and also to do with non UK people getting employment here. The motto was taking back control. But it's clear that's just bollox. We might have a bit more of a say, but we will still be doing what we are now-compromising on border control, net financial contribution to access a market, and adopting some EU regulation.
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 2 minutes ago
The government wouldn't discuss the use of the pound.
SNP were clear that was the currency.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
should have been discussingit in 1935 though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duke-I can't make it any easier or simpler for you. It was the UK government that wouldn't discuss it.
There was no need for it to be discussed in 1935-there was no threat of independence.
I think you're being a bit disingenuous.
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 2 minutes ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt it.
If the pound takes any more of a battering then we will do any deal to get free trade with EU again.
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
So when do the 2.2m Brits return from EU nations?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 10 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 21 seconds ago
I think some folk just need an ego check. Nobody cares about the UK other than the UK. I suppose America sees us as a faithful lapdog, but that's about it.
Also foolish to say the UK politicians are accountable. We have a majority government where 63% of voters didn't vote for them. With FPTP, there's sod all accountability.
But again it's the British arrogance that because it's our system it must be better; most folk in the UK are simply too dim to understand complexities like different voting systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are completely wrong. This kind of misrepresentation is exactly why people voted leave today.
The EU care so little they are already touting for the UK to become an "associate partner". As a net contributor, the obligation now rests on them to fill that hole from increased contributions from the remaining 27 members. Moreover, our exit is seen as a catalyst for other nations to follow. Greece, Italy, Austria, Holland, France will all seek an in/out referendum by their people.
Unaccountability is 5 presidents and 27 other nations voting on our laws and control of UK finances we have no wore on.
The UK FPTP voting system is a robust system where people can hold their local MP accountable and the government as a whole accountable. If you feel you can't' influence the UK government then be sure to vote for independence in the next Scottish referendum coming soon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The EU will fill that gap in finances by charging us just as much as they used to to trade with them.
As for unnacountability.. we have nearly 800 Lords who decide if our parliamentary bills are passed or not. Near 800 Lords who are only in a job because either their dad died and they've inherited his job, or because a politician gave them the job so that they're used as a pawn to block or push through bills.
As for the EU spending our money on anything that isn't Britain.. what about the oil money Scotland has raised over the years that has been wasted in London so that they could prop it up and attract the financial sector they now have, along with using it for dole money when they stripped out heavy industry throughout England. We barely saw a penny of it.
FPTP is a relic from centuries ago. Proportional representation allows you to hold your local MP's to more accountability as they are there on merit, and you have more than one.. so if one is taking the p¡ss and not doing their job there is an alternative. With FPTP you get what you're given (and that can often be what you haven't voted for).
I've no problems with the outcome of the referendum.. I don't agree with it but life goes on and we'll make it work, we have to. But to suggest that everything in Westminster is kosher is either naive or a straight out deception. It's as undemocratic, if not more, than the EU. It's becoming more open to being prejudiced by lobbyists as we adopt a more American approach to law making as far as business laws go. There's the danger that without the EU shackles lobbying will become more powerful at the cost of true democracy, as the little man's voice becomes squeezed out.
There's still the fact our upper house of parliament is still unelected and is used by politicians as a means to ensure laws are blocked or pushed through.. I can't think of any other national democracy in the world where unelected officials decide what bills are passed or not.
Just a quick last one.. a lot was made of the money sent to the EU. At least we got something for that money. If these same people were as concerned about the money we waste on defence then we might actually do something truly positive as a nation. We don't get any of that money back.. it goes on weapons which miraculously don't regenerate bullets or bombs. It goes on planes, tanks, ships etc which require constant maintenance, even when they're not killing people, so every single day of the year. Then there's trident We waste far more on defence than we did the EU.. and for what? But you're average Joe won't care about that because he thinks an immigrant stole his dole money.
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Farage
Page 5 of 6
6
posted on 24/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
some folk voted to leave the UK
THIS MEANY LEAVING THE EU
No time scales for getting admission
No absolute we would even have met the criteria but if we did we were at the back
Strangely never mentioned or at least with no great concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Leave campaign lobbied for Brexit-and have now came out and said there's no rush to invoke article 50.
They've went into this with no plan and no idea what to do if they won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly no defined plan.
I don't really think they thought they would win
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They probably didn't, but they could at least have made some plans. And if they haven't, then it kinda makes a bit of a mockery of the people that voted for them. They've enticed people to vote for them with a view of a utopian British society-and they've no idea how to progress it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
time will tell I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Time has already told. They could have outlined their plans today. They should have outlined their plans and a timetable in the lead up to the vote. We have now went down a path on a wing and a prayer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps,,, possibly even....
It does remind me of our ref where weeks before we were still debating where we could use the pound.
THE SNP have existed for 100s of years yet didn't have that sorted.
As I understand it will take up to 3 years to disentangle
posted on 24/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 4 minutes ago
No-you did say about restricting sales-I've quoted you directly. I've seen you comment on other threads about how others are implying that the EU won't want to trade-which hasn't been said.
My point is that now the decision has been made, they want us to go now. Trigger the 2 years notice and it's been on the news that the member states have said no extensions to this. They've been quoted as saying it will not be amicable. Doesn't sound like they want to do is any favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have no mechsnism to force it. Its upto the UK to invoke article 50. And it will be on our timescales irrespective of what the EU wants
Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. Thier is no doubt thr EU will want to & will continue to trade with the UK who import more than they export to the EU.
They will not raise barriers that are detrimebtal to their own economies. The most likely scenario for negotiations will be a Norway-type solution that will allow the free-movement of LABOUR only in return for maintaining exusting trade deals. Sovereignty of laws and free movement of EU citizens as a right will be revoked.
Back to the question of Switzerland also, im well aware of the rules they abide by. But its a two way street too. Switzerland allows free movement under Schengen but not free movement of labour. Switzerland uses a visa system for work and migration both for EU and non EU citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, why did you ask what rules they have to abide by if you knew them so well?!? Weird...
In essence then, we more than likely will have to still contribute financially to the EU, without having a say in the decision making. We will probably either have to allow free movement of labour, or free movement of people. Oh-and agree to EU regulations.
We've really taken back control then.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ask yourself this.Which is the greater priority for the EU project - keeping countries inside the EU or sales of BMW cars to the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW is one of many though
The whole thing will collapse if they miss out on sales
They will keep fek all countries in if they restrict what is a big market for its members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many including BMW that provide jobs in the UK.Are you suggesting that the UK can dictate terms to the EU? When it comes to trade negotiations there is no doubt who carries the bigger stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOK THINK ABOUT IT
How do Norway or the Swiss or the Middle east or the far East or Australia or just about everyfrignwhere do business with the EU.
They manage this quite well.
The EU is no about to cut its nose off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not-but they're not going to just bend over and let us decide the terms.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
The different countries residents and the lobbying companies and businesses will dictate what happens as regards trade deals I'll guess. Not some jumped up faceless autocrats stating some kind of revenge tactics.
You think Merkel will allow all her exports to dry up to the UK when they are by far now the biggest contributer and won't be telling Juncker to cool his jets?
Wait and see. It's one day in.
Markets already recovering and currency back to what it was at the beginning of the week.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The dead cat bounce.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
some folk voted to leave the UK
THIS MEANY LEAVING THE EU
No time scales for getting admission
No absolute we would even have met the criteria but if we did we were at the back
Strangely never mentioned or at least with no great concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Leave campaign lobbied for Brexit-and have now came out and said there's no rush to invoke article 50.
They've went into this with no plan and no idea what to do if they won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly no defined plan.
I don't really think they thought they would win
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They probably didn't, but they could at least have made some plans. And if they haven't, then it kinda makes a bit of a mockery of the people that voted for them. They've enticed people to vote for them with a view of a utopian British society-and they've no idea how to progress it.
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time will tell I guess.
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Not really. Time has already told. They could have outlined their plans today. They should have outlined their plans and a timetable in the lead up to the vote. We have now went down a path on a wing and a prayer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps,,, possibly even....
It does remind me of our ref where weeks before we were still debating where we could use the pound.
THE SNP have existed for 100s of years yet didn't have that sorted.
As I understand it will take up to 3 years to disentangle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think the SNP have been about for 100s of years?!?
They did say they wanted to keep the pound. They said they wanted to negotiate on the use of the pound. It was the No side and the BOE who said they didn't want to deal on it.
posted on 24/6/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ask yourself this.Which is the greater priority for the EU project - keeping countries inside the EU or sales of BMW cars to the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW is one of many though
The whole thing will collapse if they miss out on sales
They will keep fek all countries in if they restrict what is a big market for its members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many including BMW that provide jobs in the UK.Are you suggesting that the UK can dictate terms to the EU? When it comes to trade negotiations there is no doubt who carries the bigger stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOK THINK ABOUT IT
How do Norway or the Swiss or the Middle east or the far East or Australia or just about everyfrignwhere do business with the EU.
They manage this quite well.
The EU is no about to cut its nose off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not-but they're not going to just bend over and let us decide the terms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they will do exactly as they do in the vast majority of markets.
They wont bend over
They will do what is best for them
We will do what is best for us
Exactly as every other country does.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
some folk voted to leave the UK
THIS MEANY LEAVING THE EU
No time scales for getting admission
No absolute we would even have met the criteria but if we did we were at the back
Strangely never mentioned or at least with no great concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Leave campaign lobbied for Brexit-and have now came out and said there's no rush to invoke article 50.
They've went into this with no plan and no idea what to do if they won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly no defined plan.
I don't really think they thought they would win
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They probably didn't, but they could at least have made some plans. And if they haven't, then it kinda makes a bit of a mockery of the people that voted for them. They've enticed people to vote for them with a view of a utopian British society-and they've no idea how to progress it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
time will tell I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. Time has already told. They could have outlined their plans today. They should have outlined their plans and a timetable in the lead up to the vote. We have now went down a path on a wing and a prayer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps,,, possibly even....
It does remind me of our ref where weeks before we were still debating where we could use the pound.
THE SNP have existed for 100s of years yet didn't have that sorted.
As I understand it will take up to 3 years to disentangle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think the SNP have been about for 100s of years?!?
They did say they wanted to keep the pound. They said they wanted to negotiate on the use of the pound. It was the No side and the BOE who said they didn't want to deal on it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok since 1934 so just 82 years to discuss currency usage in the even of getting their only aim of independence
They were still nowhere a week before voting.
That does not mean I disagree the exit folk are unprepared
They might well be
Time WILL tell.
posted on 24/6/16
And they will do it from a stronger bargaining position.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 minute ago
And they will do it from a stronger bargaining position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry-this was to your previous post about the bending over....
posted on 24/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 second ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 4 minutes ago
No-you did say about restricting sales-I've quoted you directly. I've seen you comment on other threads about how others are implying that the EU won't want to trade-which hasn't been said.
My point is that now the decision has been made, they want us to go now. Trigger the 2 years notice and it's been on the news that the member states have said no extensions to this. They've been quoted as saying it will not be amicable. Doesn't sound like they want to do is any favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have no mechsnism to force it. Its upto the UK to invoke article 50. And it will be on our timescales irrespective of what the EU wants
Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. Thier is no doubt thr EU will want to & will continue to trade with the UK who import more than they export to the EU.
They will not raise barriers that are detrimebtal to their own economies. The most likely scenario for negotiations will be a Norway-type solution that will allow the free-movement of LABOUR only in return for maintaining exusting trade deals. Sovereignty of laws and free movement of EU citizens as a right will be revoked.
Back to the question of Switzerland also, im well aware of the rules they abide by. But its a two way street too. Switzerland allows free movement under Schengen but not free movement of labour. Switzerland uses a visa system for work and migration both for EU and non EU citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, why did you ask what rules they have to abide by if you knew them so well?!? Weird...
In essence then, we more than likely will have to still contribute financially to the EU, without having a say in the decision making. We will probably either have to allow free movement of labour, or free movement of people. Oh-and agree to EU regulations.
We've really taken back control then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because i thought u knew something i didnt
Not sure if there will be a financial contribution. But quite possible simply for access to the markey. But access will require some compromise. That's clear because they will want to discourage others from exiting. But they will not impose tariffs on imports or exports. That makes no financial sense to the their respective economies. There will be no free movement of people in the sense of migration. But i would be pretty sure part of any compromise to access the single market will involve some movement of labour. That is very different to what we have now. How it will actually look remains to be seen but it will not involve people just turning up without a job. There will be no automatic right to entry. They may wven adopt a swiss style system which requires visa for employment and migration but free movement otherwise e.g for education and travel..
posted on 24/6/16
The government wouldn't discuss the use of the pound.
SNP were clear that was the currency.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ask yourself this.Which is the greater priority for the EU project - keeping countries inside the EU or sales of BMW cars to the UK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW is one of many though
The whole thing will collapse if they miss out on sales
They will keep fek all countries in if they restrict what is a big market for its members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many including BMW that provide jobs in the UK.Are you suggesting that the UK can dictate terms to the EU? When it comes to trade negotiations there is no doubt who carries the bigger stick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOK THINK ABOUT IT
How do Norway or the Swiss or the Middle east or the far East or Australia or just about everyfrignwhere do business with the EU.
They manage this quite well.
The EU is no about to cut its nose off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But the difference is the UK is choosing to leave the EU. The EU leaders will want to discourage others from leaving and will want to protect the Euro. That is there priority.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but its NOT the priority of the businesses that pay the taxes that pay for the very existence of the EU
If you seriously think the MD of BMW or Audi or Meile or Rowenta or ThyssenKrupp or Seimans or Saint Gobam or Nestle or Peugeot or Phillips are going to say ok we will review our budgets down and make it difficult to sell in one of our largest markets then you are barking mad.
Look I voted to stay in
I could do without this
But this argument is flawed to extreme.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
The different countries residents and the lobbying companies and businesses will dictate what happens as regards trade deals I'll guess. Not some jumped up faceless autocrats stating some kind of revenge tactics.
You think Merkel will allow all her exports to dry up to the UK when they are by far now the biggest contributer and won't be telling Juncker to cool his jets?
Wait and see. It's one day in.
Markets already recovering and currency back to what it was at the beginning of the week.
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The dead cat bounce.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heisenberg, Schrodinger and Ohm are in a car. They get pulled over. Heisenberg is driving and the cop asks him "Do you know how fast you were going?" "No, but I know exactly where I am" Heisenberg replies. The cop says "You were doing 55 in a 35." Heisenberg throws up his hands and shouts "Great! Now I'm lost!" The cop thinks this is suspicious and orders him to pop open the trunk. He checks it out and says "Do you know you have a dead cat back here?" "We do now, a55hole!" shouts Schrodinger. The cop moves to arrest them. Ohm resists.
posted on 24/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 2 minutes ago
The government wouldn't discuss the use of the pound.
SNP were clear that was the currency.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
should have been discussingit in 1935 though
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 1 second ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 4 minutes ago
No-you did say about restricting sales-I've quoted you directly. I've seen you comment on other threads about how others are implying that the EU won't want to trade-which hasn't been said.
My point is that now the decision has been made, they want us to go now. Trigger the 2 years notice and it's been on the news that the member states have said no extensions to this. They've been quoted as saying it will not be amicable. Doesn't sound like they want to do is any favours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have no mechsnism to force it. Its upto the UK to invoke article 50. And it will be on our timescales irrespective of what the EU wants
Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. Thier is no doubt thr EU will want to & will continue to trade with the UK who import more than they export to the EU.
They will not raise barriers that are detrimebtal to their own economies. The most likely scenario for negotiations will be a Norway-type solution that will allow the free-movement of LABOUR only in return for maintaining exusting trade deals. Sovereignty of laws and free movement of EU citizens as a right will be revoked.
Back to the question of Switzerland also, im well aware of the rules they abide by. But its a two way street too. Switzerland allows free movement under Schengen but not free movement of labour. Switzerland uses a visa system for work and migration both for EU and non EU citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, why did you ask what rules they have to abide by if you knew them so well?!? Weird...
In essence then, we more than likely will have to still contribute financially to the EU, without having a say in the decision making. We will probably either have to allow free movement of labour, or free movement of people. Oh-and agree to EU regulations.
We've really taken back control then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because i thought u knew something i didnt
Not sure if there will be a financial contribution. But quite possible simply for access to the markey. But access will require some compromise. That's clear because they will want to discourage others from exiting. But they will not impose tariffs on imports or exports. That makes no financial sense to the their respective economies. There will be no free movement of people in the sense of migration. But i would be pretty sure part of any compromise to access the single market will involve some movement of labour. That is very different to what we have now. How it will actually look remains to be seen but it will not involve people just turning up without a job. There will be no automatic right to entry. They may wven adopt a swiss style system which requires visa for employment and migration but free movement otherwise e.g for education and travel..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They won't need to impose tariffs if we have to make a financial contribution.
As for the rest, watching the news tonight and listening to the radio today a lot of people were talking about their reasons for voting were to do with immigration and also to do with non UK people getting employment here. The motto was taking back control. But it's clear that's just bollox. We might have a bit more of a say, but we will still be doing what we are now-compromising on border control, net financial contribution to access a market, and adopting some EU regulation.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by The Duke (U10059)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 2 minutes ago
The government wouldn't discuss the use of the pound.
SNP were clear that was the currency.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
should have been discussingit in 1935 though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duke-I can't make it any easier or simpler for you. It was the UK government that wouldn't discuss it.
There was no need for it to be discussed in 1935-there was no threat of independence.
I think you're being a bit disingenuous.
posted on 25/6/16
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
posted on 25/6/16
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 2 minutes ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt it.
If the pound takes any more of a battering then we will do any deal to get free trade with EU again.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
posted on 25/6/16
But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
So when do the 2.2m Brits return from EU nations?
posted on 25/6/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/6/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 10 hours, 34 minutes ago
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 21 seconds ago
I think some folk just need an ego check. Nobody cares about the UK other than the UK. I suppose America sees us as a faithful lapdog, but that's about it.
Also foolish to say the UK politicians are accountable. We have a majority government where 63% of voters didn't vote for them. With FPTP, there's sod all accountability.
But again it's the British arrogance that because it's our system it must be better; most folk in the UK are simply too dim to understand complexities like different voting systems.
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You are completely wrong. This kind of misrepresentation is exactly why people voted leave today.
The EU care so little they are already touting for the UK to become an "associate partner". As a net contributor, the obligation now rests on them to fill that hole from increased contributions from the remaining 27 members. Moreover, our exit is seen as a catalyst for other nations to follow. Greece, Italy, Austria, Holland, France will all seek an in/out referendum by their people.
Unaccountability is 5 presidents and 27 other nations voting on our laws and control of UK finances we have no wore on.
The UK FPTP voting system is a robust system where people can hold their local MP accountable and the government as a whole accountable. If you feel you can't' influence the UK government then be sure to vote for independence in the next Scottish referendum coming soon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The EU will fill that gap in finances by charging us just as much as they used to to trade with them.
As for unnacountability.. we have nearly 800 Lords who decide if our parliamentary bills are passed or not. Near 800 Lords who are only in a job because either their dad died and they've inherited his job, or because a politician gave them the job so that they're used as a pawn to block or push through bills.
As for the EU spending our money on anything that isn't Britain.. what about the oil money Scotland has raised over the years that has been wasted in London so that they could prop it up and attract the financial sector they now have, along with using it for dole money when they stripped out heavy industry throughout England. We barely saw a penny of it.
FPTP is a relic from centuries ago. Proportional representation allows you to hold your local MP's to more accountability as they are there on merit, and you have more than one.. so if one is taking the p¡ss and not doing their job there is an alternative. With FPTP you get what you're given (and that can often be what you haven't voted for).
I've no problems with the outcome of the referendum.. I don't agree with it but life goes on and we'll make it work, we have to. But to suggest that everything in Westminster is kosher is either naive or a straight out deception. It's as undemocratic, if not more, than the EU. It's becoming more open to being prejudiced by lobbyists as we adopt a more American approach to law making as far as business laws go. There's the danger that without the EU shackles lobbying will become more powerful at the cost of true democracy, as the little man's voice becomes squeezed out.
There's still the fact our upper house of parliament is still unelected and is used by politicians as a means to ensure laws are blocked or pushed through.. I can't think of any other national democracy in the world where unelected officials decide what bills are passed or not.
Just a quick last one.. a lot was made of the money sent to the EU. At least we got something for that money. If these same people were as concerned about the money we waste on defence then we might actually do something truly positive as a nation. We don't get any of that money back.. it goes on weapons which miraculously don't regenerate bullets or bombs. It goes on planes, tanks, ships etc which require constant maintenance, even when they're not killing people, so every single day of the year. Then there's trident We waste far more on defence than we did the EU.. and for what? But you're average Joe won't care about that because he thinks an immigrant stole his dole money.
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