comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 8 hours, 12 minutes ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try telling that to non-EU members who have had to accept free movement of people in order to trade with the EU
And a quick point on the points based system.
Let's say hypothetically that we introduce it and only allow degree level immigrants etc in, people who are professionals.
When you're average British Joe Bloggs is working as a cleaner in some fancy building with foreign internationals making up a good section of the professionals said building, who do you think he's gonna blame for being in that predicament?
The easiest option.. the professional with his nice car and nice watch. He'll find a way to blame the foreigner for his own failings in life, just as he is now, accusing him of stealing a job he didn't have a chance of getting.
As it is.. the whole points based argument is irrelevant considering we're producing hundreds and thousands of our own graduates who are forced to work in McDonald's because the jobs aren't there, or companies won't employ them as they're fresh out of uni.
Morning juke lad.
I hear wee Nicola choppin her gums about an indy ref, but how can five million Scots have success, whilst sixty five million in the uk cannot?
Only difference is Eu membership, thus implying the Snp want tobeg for brussels subsidies.
The uk paid more in than out, so makes sense for the uk to leave, but the snp plan confuses me.
Genuine query bud, and not being smart.....as you know, I rarely am😉
Also, will yeez join the eurozone as sterling is a no no?
comment by Mick Astley (U20769)
posted 8 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 2 minutes ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt it.
If the pound takes any more of a battering then we will do any deal to get free trade with EU again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense. The Euro and the Eurozone is a failing project propped up by massive debt and severely mismatched and unstable economies. It's just a matter of time before it collapses into something more sustainable. Countries like Greece, Italy, Portugal will exit for economic reasons with others exiting for political reasons.
Qhy you think theyve tried to so hard to keep a bankrupt and failing Greece within the EU ? Do they need them ? They contribute nothing yo the prosperity ? But theyre symbolic and politically imoortant to retain the union. The loss of the UK is a massive jolt to the EU from which it cannot recover in its current form. The UK has started the chain reaction. Many will follow suit and the poor wee beaurocrats will have to get off the Brussels gravy train. Here's hoping that train arrives soon
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you need to realise is rhat if an Australian points based system allows more in then it's because the system needs them.
In Australia you dont just stroll in. You require captial to fund yourself without burden to yhe state, you require a pre-arranged job to go to and you require a home to go to.
If we adopt such a system, which seems sensible, then it will be for the benefit of Brotains needs. Not uncontrolled access to turn up eith no money no job and no home then stick your hand out on arrival looking for support. Thats why services and infrastructure are creaking. You cant plan your services if you have no idea who is coming in, where they are or what they're doing
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 29 minutes ago
Morning juke lad.
I hear wee Nicola choppin her gums about an indy ref, but how can five million Scots have success, whilst sixty five million in the uk cannot?
Only difference is Eu membership, thus implying the Snp want tobeg for brussels subsidies.
The uk paid more in than out, so makes sense for the uk to leave, but the snp plan confuses me.
Genuine query bud, and not being smart.....as you know, I rarely am😉
Also, will yeez join the eurozone as sterling is a no no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dunno mate.
I'm no pushing for another referendum
Scotland gets more out of its union with the EU than it puts in.
As Scotland gets less out of its union with the UK than it puts in.
Thanks to the vote, we can't stay in both unions. We need to decide.
This has nothing to do with whether the rest of the UK can have success outside of Europe, the rest of the UK has a very different type of economy and industry to us.
comment by Wales (U3904)
posted 12 hours, 44 minutes ago
How many countries were actually contributors and not beneficiaries? Germany, France, the UK no longer. Is there even anyone else?
It's a failing system, we are jumping ship just in time before the complete turmoil. In 5 to 10 years the EU will completely collapse and we should be able to stand on our own two feet by then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really get Scotland's desire to be part of the EU. Maybe we rely more on European subsidies. Maybe access to the single market is more important to us. I don't know. But what I do know is that Scotland has great natural resources (oil, gas, wind) that are the envy of many nations. We produce some of the finest products on the planet like single malt Mmmmm. I see no reason why Scotland couldn't prosper outside the EU and as an independent nation. I certainly think the case for independence is stronger now given that one of the main argument of the Stay campaign was that "the only way to guarantee to remain an EU member to to reject independence" ....how'd that work out ?
I mean seriously why would we want to attach ourselves to a sinking ship ? It's an ever increasing federalist union that is creaking at the seems under a mountain of debt, unemployment and disparate economies.. Why buy a ticket now for the Titanic ?
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you need to realise is rhat if an Australian points based system allows more in then it's because the system needs them.
In Australia you dont just stroll in. You require captial to fund yourself without burden to yhe state, you require a pre-arranged job to go to and you require a home to go to.
If we adopt such a system, which seems sensible, then it will be for the benefit of Brotains needs. Not uncontrolled access to turn up eith no money no job and no home then stick your hand out on arrival looking for support. Thats why services and infrastructure are creaking. You cant plan your services if you have no idea who is coming in, where they are or what they're doing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're confusing benefits available to EU migrants and non EU migrants.
Your points just read like the last couple of debates from the Leave side. EU migrants are net contributors to the economy. As has been pointed out, if you go to the doctor or the hospital, you're more likely to be helped by an EU person than be behind them in the queue.
I'm not vouching for the stat, but I'm pretty certain I read recently that approx 20% of staff in the NHS are from outside the UK. So, if you think that services are creaking now, think how much worse it could be.
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Wales (U3904)
posted 12 hours, 44 minutes ago
How many countries were actually contributors and not beneficiaries? Germany, France, the UK no longer. Is there even anyone else?
It's a failing system, we are jumping ship just in time before the complete turmoil. In 5 to 10 years the EU will completely collapse and we should be able to stand on our own two feet by then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really get Scotland's desire to be part of the EU. Maybe we rely more on European subsidies. Maybe access to the single market is more important to us. I don't know. But what I do know is that Scotland has great natural resources (oil, gas, wind) that are the envy of many nations. We produce some of the finest products on the planet like single malt Mmmmm. I see no reason why Scotland couldn't prosper outside the EU and as an independent nation. I certainly think the case for independence is stronger now given that one of the main argument of the Stay campaign was that "the only way to guarantee to remain an EU member to to reject independence" ....how'd that work out ?
I mean seriously why would we want to attach ourselves to a sinking ship ? It's an ever increasing federalist union that is creaking at the seems under a mountain of debt, unemployment and disparate economies.. Why buy a ticket now for the Titanic ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that the UK you're talking about? We're one of the most debt laden countries about.
Btw-did you support the Indy ref??
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you need to realise is rhat if an Australian points based system allows more in then it's because the system needs them.
In Australia you dont just stroll in. You require captial to fund yourself without burden to yhe state, you require a pre-arranged job to go to and you require a home to go to.
If we adopt such a system, which seems sensible, then it will be for the benefit of Brotains needs. Not uncontrolled access to turn up eith no money no job and no home then stick your hand out on arrival looking for support. Thats why services and infrastructure are creaking. You cant plan your services if you have no idea who is coming in, where they are or what they're doing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're confusing benefits available to EU migrants and non EU migrants.
Your points just read like the last couple of debates from the Leave side. EU migrants are net contributors to the economy. As has been pointed out, if you go to the doctor or the hospital, you're more likely to be helped by an EU person than be behind them in the queue.
I'm not vouching for the stat, but I'm pretty certain I read recently that approx 20% of staff in the NHS are from outside the UK. So, if you think that services are creaking now, think how much worse it could be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Net contribution is an irrelevant stat. It's about controlled migration numbers not about £'s. If you have 330,000, a city the size of Newastle turning up every year with the potential for even more, how do hospitals, scools, housing capaticity, GP patient places keep up with that pace ? They can't infrastructure can't move at that pace. You canr build housules at that pace, hospitals amd schools dont have that spare capacity. Why you thibk these services are creaking ? School class numbers continually rising ? People ynable to see a GP ? It aint about throwing cash at it. If you have no capacity or you're capacoty can't keep up with the rate of increase then you need to reduce the rate. Simple maths.
So let's make it abundently clear. It's not about how much they add to the economy. All migrants subsequentky allowed in will have to contribute. It's about scale, rate, pooulation growth to all demand to fit supply.
The uncontrolled migration has been a disaster for wages, rents, social housing and all forms of social services
You really need to stop making Brexiters sound like xenophobes
You need to differentiate between £'s and numbers. Im very pro migration. But i believe uk immigrstion policy is biased against non EU citizens. Citizens worldwide should be equally treated in their ability to work in the UK. It's wrong that favour goes to EU citizens somw homeless, jobless at the expense of a philipino nurse. The UK will continue to need imigration for both the public and the private sector. The difference will be that it will be based on UK need and not EU want/right. Thats how it should be
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 5 minutes ago
You really need to stop making Brexiters sound like xenophobes
You need to differentiate between £'s and numbers. Im very pro migration. But i believe uk immigrstion policy is biased against non EU citizens. Citizens worldwide should be equally treated in their ability to work in the UK. It's wrong that favour goes to EU citizens somw homeless, jobless at the expense of a philipino nurse. The UK will continue to need imigration for both the public and the private sector. The difference will be that it will be based on UK need and not EU want/right. Thats how it should be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not being funny Esc-but that's just all over the place.
A non EU migrant is not denied somewhere because of an EU migrant. That wouldn't be the reason for being denied entry. I think I know the point you're trying to make, but that's just not true.
You also say that you are pro migration, that you want citizens worldwide to be treated equally-but basically, only if it suits us. That's not really being pro migration-that's you just wanting to plug the gaps that we can't fill.
I'm not trying to make Brexiters sound xenophobic. All I've done is try to debunk some of the myths that surround the issue.
Again, your points about our infrastructure being poor isn't because we've got a lot of migrants-it's because of a lack of investment by previous and current government. We are blaming the wrong people here.
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 5 minutes ago
You really need to stop making Brexiters sound like xenophobes
You need to differentiate between £'s and numbers. Im very pro migration. But i believe uk immigrstion policy is biased against non EU citizens. Citizens worldwide should be equally treated in their ability to work in the UK. It's wrong that favour goes to EU citizens somw homeless, jobless at the expense of a philipino nurse. The UK will continue to need imigration for both the public and the private sector. The difference will be that it will be based on UK need and not EU want/right. Thats how it should be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not being funny Esc-but that's just all over the place.
A non EU migrant is not denied somewhere because of an EU migrant. That wouldn't be the reason for being denied entry. I think I know the point you're trying to make, but that's just not true.
You also say that you are pro migration, that you want citizens worldwide to be treated equally-but basically, only if it suits us. That's not really being pro migration-that's you just wanting to plug the gaps that we can't fill.
I'm not trying to make Brexiters sound xenophobic. All I've done is try to debunk some of the myths that surround the issue.
Again, your points about our infrastructure being poor isn't because we've got a lot of migrants-it's because of a lack of investment by previous and current government. We are blaming the wrong people here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not all over the place at all. You've missed the point again. It really is dead simple. Non-EU migration is controlled on basic need. If the NHS needs a nurse and there as applicant from outside the EU they will get it based on ability and need. EU migrants need have no skills or qualification, assets etc etc to enter the country. I agree that successive governments have failed miserably at morderning and increasing the structure to cope with a modern Britain. But it becomes even more difficult when you have no idea who from the EU is coming, the job status and dependency status. That is something that can be controlled to effect change and remove strain from services. You have to be pragmatic about it. There's no point in pointing fingers. The question needs to be asked - what can we do to effect change, t better control the needs of the country.vone of the biggest levers is migration.
Of course what I say is pro migration. It's just a different vision than yours of what migration means. I think migration means people coming to a country to work, settle and contribute in all 3 areas. The work they come to should be, as in America, only where there is no one in that country who could do that job. It's madness that UK has ca 5-10million working age adults without employment yet migrants are filling low paid jobs. The whole UK economic model is a disaster from top to bottom because the social sector is as large as the private sector if not bigger. The deficit and debt are evidence of that. Things simply couldn't go an as they were. The 1st step is sorting out migration and the numbers and type of migrant entering the country. The next step must be public sector reform. The dependency and entitlement culture is suffocating the UK. But tough choices need to be made. The problem is the lack of politics will and inertia because the public sector is so politicised. There are hard times ahead for the UK economy. Austerity is a symptom of the complete negligence of successive governments to properly invest.
But it can and will be a better place outside the EU, able to make decisions about itself for itself
I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this. Clearly your politics is very different from mine. I have no particular political persuasion. My views are of the bigger picture. Looking at what the economic levers are. What are the problems. What are the dependant variables. How must you alter those variables to make changes In a way that will benefit. There's nothing emotive about it for me.
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 20 minutes ago
I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this. Clearly your politics is very different from mine. I have no particular political persuasion. My views are of the bigger picture. Looking at what the economic levers are. What are the problems. What are the dependant variables. How must you alter those variables to make changes In a way that will benefit. There's nothing emotive about it for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree to disagree then, although that's a fairly condascending comment of yours to leave it on.
And just for clarity, I'm also of no political persuasion.
Sign in if you want to comment
Farage
Page 6 of 6
6
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 8 hours, 12 minutes ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try telling that to non-EU members who have had to accept free movement of people in order to trade with the EU
posted on 25/6/16
And a quick point on the points based system.
Let's say hypothetically that we introduce it and only allow degree level immigrants etc in, people who are professionals.
When you're average British Joe Bloggs is working as a cleaner in some fancy building with foreign internationals making up a good section of the professionals said building, who do you think he's gonna blame for being in that predicament?
The easiest option.. the professional with his nice car and nice watch. He'll find a way to blame the foreigner for his own failings in life, just as he is now, accusing him of stealing a job he didn't have a chance of getting.
As it is.. the whole points based argument is irrelevant considering we're producing hundreds and thousands of our own graduates who are forced to work in McDonald's because the jobs aren't there, or companies won't employ them as they're fresh out of uni.
posted on 25/6/16
Morning juke lad.
I hear wee Nicola choppin her gums about an indy ref, but how can five million Scots have success, whilst sixty five million in the uk cannot?
Only difference is Eu membership, thus implying the Snp want tobeg for brussels subsidies.
The uk paid more in than out, so makes sense for the uk to leave, but the snp plan confuses me.
Genuine query bud, and not being smart.....as you know, I rarely am😉
Also, will yeez join the eurozone as sterling is a no no?
posted on 25/6/16
comment by Mick Astley (U20769)
posted 8 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 2 minutes ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt it.
If the pound takes any more of a battering then we will do any deal to get free trade with EU again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense. The Euro and the Eurozone is a failing project propped up by massive debt and severely mismatched and unstable economies. It's just a matter of time before it collapses into something more sustainable. Countries like Greece, Italy, Portugal will exit for economic reasons with others exiting for political reasons.
Qhy you think theyve tried to so hard to keep a bankrupt and failing Greece within the EU ? Do they need them ? They contribute nothing yo the prosperity ? But theyre symbolic and politically imoortant to retain the union. The loss of the UK is a massive jolt to the EU from which it cannot recover in its current form. The UK has started the chain reaction. Many will follow suit and the poor wee beaurocrats will have to get off the Brussels gravy train. Here's hoping that train arrives soon
posted on 25/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you need to realise is rhat if an Australian points based system allows more in then it's because the system needs them.
In Australia you dont just stroll in. You require captial to fund yourself without burden to yhe state, you require a pre-arranged job to go to and you require a home to go to.
If we adopt such a system, which seems sensible, then it will be for the benefit of Brotains needs. Not uncontrolled access to turn up eith no money no job and no home then stick your hand out on arrival looking for support. Thats why services and infrastructure are creaking. You cant plan your services if you have no idea who is coming in, where they are or what they're doing
posted on 25/6/16
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 29 minutes ago
Morning juke lad.
I hear wee Nicola choppin her gums about an indy ref, but how can five million Scots have success, whilst sixty five million in the uk cannot?
Only difference is Eu membership, thus implying the Snp want tobeg for brussels subsidies.
The uk paid more in than out, so makes sense for the uk to leave, but the snp plan confuses me.
Genuine query bud, and not being smart.....as you know, I rarely am😉
Also, will yeez join the eurozone as sterling is a no no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dunno mate.
I'm no pushing for another referendum
posted on 25/6/16
Scotland gets more out of its union with the EU than it puts in.
As Scotland gets less out of its union with the UK than it puts in.
Thanks to the vote, we can't stay in both unions. We need to decide.
This has nothing to do with whether the rest of the UK can have success outside of Europe, the rest of the UK has a very different type of economy and industry to us.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by Wales (U3904)
posted 12 hours, 44 minutes ago
How many countries were actually contributors and not beneficiaries? Germany, France, the UK no longer. Is there even anyone else?
It's a failing system, we are jumping ship just in time before the complete turmoil. In 5 to 10 years the EU will completely collapse and we should be able to stand on our own two feet by then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really get Scotland's desire to be part of the EU. Maybe we rely more on European subsidies. Maybe access to the single market is more important to us. I don't know. But what I do know is that Scotland has great natural resources (oil, gas, wind) that are the envy of many nations. We produce some of the finest products on the planet like single malt Mmmmm. I see no reason why Scotland couldn't prosper outside the EU and as an independent nation. I certainly think the case for independence is stronger now given that one of the main argument of the Stay campaign was that "the only way to guarantee to remain an EU member to to reject independence" ....how'd that work out ?
I mean seriously why would we want to attach ourselves to a sinking ship ? It's an ever increasing federalist union that is creaking at the seems under a mountain of debt, unemployment and disparate economies.. Why buy a ticket now for the Titanic ?
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you need to realise is rhat if an Australian points based system allows more in then it's because the system needs them.
In Australia you dont just stroll in. You require captial to fund yourself without burden to yhe state, you require a pre-arranged job to go to and you require a home to go to.
If we adopt such a system, which seems sensible, then it will be for the benefit of Brotains needs. Not uncontrolled access to turn up eith no money no job and no home then stick your hand out on arrival looking for support. Thats why services and infrastructure are creaking. You cant plan your services if you have no idea who is coming in, where they are or what they're doing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're confusing benefits available to EU migrants and non EU migrants.
Your points just read like the last couple of debates from the Leave side. EU migrants are net contributors to the economy. As has been pointed out, if you go to the doctor or the hospital, you're more likely to be helped by an EU person than be behind them in the queue.
I'm not vouching for the stat, but I'm pretty certain I read recently that approx 20% of staff in the NHS are from outside the UK. So, if you think that services are creaking now, think how much worse it could be.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Wales (U3904)
posted 12 hours, 44 minutes ago
How many countries were actually contributors and not beneficiaries? Germany, France, the UK no longer. Is there even anyone else?
It's a failing system, we are jumping ship just in time before the complete turmoil. In 5 to 10 years the EU will completely collapse and we should be able to stand on our own two feet by then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really get Scotland's desire to be part of the EU. Maybe we rely more on European subsidies. Maybe access to the single market is more important to us. I don't know. But what I do know is that Scotland has great natural resources (oil, gas, wind) that are the envy of many nations. We produce some of the finest products on the planet like single malt Mmmmm. I see no reason why Scotland couldn't prosper outside the EU and as an independent nation. I certainly think the case for independence is stronger now given that one of the main argument of the Stay campaign was that "the only way to guarantee to remain an EU member to to reject independence" ....how'd that work out ?
I mean seriously why would we want to attach ourselves to a sinking ship ? It's an ever increasing federalist union that is creaking at the seems under a mountain of debt, unemployment and disparate economies.. Why buy a ticket now for the Titanic ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that the UK you're talking about? We're one of the most debt laden countries about.
Btw-did you support the Indy ref??
posted on 25/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 1 minute ago
Disagree. Every country has immigration. The UK will control as required by economic needs. That will be the basis for any EU negotiations. Its upto them to sort out the detail. But it WILL control the numbers and the type of migrants allowed to enter. The days of automatic entry rights will be gone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar to just now? More non EU immigrants than EU immigrants?
Or adopt an Australian point system like Boris has been talking about-despite it being pointed out to him that this system allows even more in?
You can disagree all you want, the problem is that their has been a lot of confidence placed in the Leave campaign that they will be able to follow through on their promises. Looking forward to seeing Boris, Gove and Farage doing negotiating at that level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you need to realise is rhat if an Australian points based system allows more in then it's because the system needs them.
In Australia you dont just stroll in. You require captial to fund yourself without burden to yhe state, you require a pre-arranged job to go to and you require a home to go to.
If we adopt such a system, which seems sensible, then it will be for the benefit of Brotains needs. Not uncontrolled access to turn up eith no money no job and no home then stick your hand out on arrival looking for support. Thats why services and infrastructure are creaking. You cant plan your services if you have no idea who is coming in, where they are or what they're doing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're confusing benefits available to EU migrants and non EU migrants.
Your points just read like the last couple of debates from the Leave side. EU migrants are net contributors to the economy. As has been pointed out, if you go to the doctor or the hospital, you're more likely to be helped by an EU person than be behind them in the queue.
I'm not vouching for the stat, but I'm pretty certain I read recently that approx 20% of staff in the NHS are from outside the UK. So, if you think that services are creaking now, think how much worse it could be.
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Net contribution is an irrelevant stat. It's about controlled migration numbers not about £'s. If you have 330,000, a city the size of Newastle turning up every year with the potential for even more, how do hospitals, scools, housing capaticity, GP patient places keep up with that pace ? They can't infrastructure can't move at that pace. You canr build housules at that pace, hospitals amd schools dont have that spare capacity. Why you thibk these services are creaking ? School class numbers continually rising ? People ynable to see a GP ? It aint about throwing cash at it. If you have no capacity or you're capacoty can't keep up with the rate of increase then you need to reduce the rate. Simple maths.
So let's make it abundently clear. It's not about how much they add to the economy. All migrants subsequentky allowed in will have to contribute. It's about scale, rate, pooulation growth to all demand to fit supply.
The uncontrolled migration has been a disaster for wages, rents, social housing and all forms of social services
posted on 25/6/16
You really need to stop making Brexiters sound like xenophobes
You need to differentiate between £'s and numbers. Im very pro migration. But i believe uk immigrstion policy is biased against non EU citizens. Citizens worldwide should be equally treated in their ability to work in the UK. It's wrong that favour goes to EU citizens somw homeless, jobless at the expense of a philipino nurse. The UK will continue to need imigration for both the public and the private sector. The difference will be that it will be based on UK need and not EU want/right. Thats how it should be
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 5 minutes ago
You really need to stop making Brexiters sound like xenophobes
You need to differentiate between £'s and numbers. Im very pro migration. But i believe uk immigrstion policy is biased against non EU citizens. Citizens worldwide should be equally treated in their ability to work in the UK. It's wrong that favour goes to EU citizens somw homeless, jobless at the expense of a philipino nurse. The UK will continue to need imigration for both the public and the private sector. The difference will be that it will be based on UK need and not EU want/right. Thats how it should be
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Not being funny Esc-but that's just all over the place.
A non EU migrant is not denied somewhere because of an EU migrant. That wouldn't be the reason for being denied entry. I think I know the point you're trying to make, but that's just not true.
You also say that you are pro migration, that you want citizens worldwide to be treated equally-but basically, only if it suits us. That's not really being pro migration-that's you just wanting to plug the gaps that we can't fill.
I'm not trying to make Brexiters sound xenophobic. All I've done is try to debunk some of the myths that surround the issue.
Again, your points about our infrastructure being poor isn't because we've got a lot of migrants-it's because of a lack of investment by previous and current government. We are blaming the wrong people here.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by My POV (U10636)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 5 minutes ago
You really need to stop making Brexiters sound like xenophobes
You need to differentiate between £'s and numbers. Im very pro migration. But i believe uk immigrstion policy is biased against non EU citizens. Citizens worldwide should be equally treated in their ability to work in the UK. It's wrong that favour goes to EU citizens somw homeless, jobless at the expense of a philipino nurse. The UK will continue to need imigration for both the public and the private sector. The difference will be that it will be based on UK need and not EU want/right. Thats how it should be
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Not being funny Esc-but that's just all over the place.
A non EU migrant is not denied somewhere because of an EU migrant. That wouldn't be the reason for being denied entry. I think I know the point you're trying to make, but that's just not true.
You also say that you are pro migration, that you want citizens worldwide to be treated equally-but basically, only if it suits us. That's not really being pro migration-that's you just wanting to plug the gaps that we can't fill.
I'm not trying to make Brexiters sound xenophobic. All I've done is try to debunk some of the myths that surround the issue.
Again, your points about our infrastructure being poor isn't because we've got a lot of migrants-it's because of a lack of investment by previous and current government. We are blaming the wrong people here.
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It's not all over the place at all. You've missed the point again. It really is dead simple. Non-EU migration is controlled on basic need. If the NHS needs a nurse and there as applicant from outside the EU they will get it based on ability and need. EU migrants need have no skills or qualification, assets etc etc to enter the country. I agree that successive governments have failed miserably at morderning and increasing the structure to cope with a modern Britain. But it becomes even more difficult when you have no idea who from the EU is coming, the job status and dependency status. That is something that can be controlled to effect change and remove strain from services. You have to be pragmatic about it. There's no point in pointing fingers. The question needs to be asked - what can we do to effect change, t better control the needs of the country.vone of the biggest levers is migration.
Of course what I say is pro migration. It's just a different vision than yours of what migration means. I think migration means people coming to a country to work, settle and contribute in all 3 areas. The work they come to should be, as in America, only where there is no one in that country who could do that job. It's madness that UK has ca 5-10million working age adults without employment yet migrants are filling low paid jobs. The whole UK economic model is a disaster from top to bottom because the social sector is as large as the private sector if not bigger. The deficit and debt are evidence of that. Things simply couldn't go an as they were. The 1st step is sorting out migration and the numbers and type of migrant entering the country. The next step must be public sector reform. The dependency and entitlement culture is suffocating the UK. But tough choices need to be made. The problem is the lack of politics will and inertia because the public sector is so politicised. There are hard times ahead for the UK economy. Austerity is a symptom of the complete negligence of successive governments to properly invest.
But it can and will be a better place outside the EU, able to make decisions about itself for itself
posted on 25/6/16
I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this. Clearly your politics is very different from mine. I have no particular political persuasion. My views are of the bigger picture. Looking at what the economic levers are. What are the problems. What are the dependant variables. How must you alter those variables to make changes In a way that will benefit. There's nothing emotive about it for me.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by vote Esctosh for PM ❌ (U8215)
posted 20 minutes ago
I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this. Clearly your politics is very different from mine. I have no particular political persuasion. My views are of the bigger picture. Looking at what the economic levers are. What are the problems. What are the dependant variables. How must you alter those variables to make changes In a way that will benefit. There's nothing emotive about it for me.
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Agree to disagree then, although that's a fairly condascending comment of yours to leave it on.
And just for clarity, I'm also of no political persuasion.
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