Well at least I got it off my chest
The aftermath has been as messy as the debate itself. Reading some of the comments on here has been quite depressing, for a country going it alone we don't seem very united, quite the opposite.
If it's not Remainers spitting the dummy it's Leavers being smug, there is a section of voters on both sides that have got no dignity in victory or defeat.
Hector
Very true. Putting the pettiness to one side I still for the life of me haven't got a clue of what's been voted for. Neither do people on both sides by the looks of it.
I can understand wanting change if it has a positive effect on the country both immediately and in the future. But what is going to change?
Your Scottish aren't you? What's your opinion and the consensus up there?
I have been reading some blogs on the matter from respectable news agents and other financial websites and it does seem to me you have made a terrible mistake. Cameron asked to wait 3 months to activate article 50, but the EU member states are already calling BS on that and it negotiations will have to start now, not in 3 months. You voted out, get on with it.
Secondly, one of the major subjects of the out campaign was the £350M contribution a week to the EU which could be spent on the NHS. Declared a 'mistake' within one hour of the victory for the out campaign.
Thirdly, if you want to join the single market like Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway (EEA) you would have to keep your borders open as well, and you would still have to adopt most EU legislation concerning the single market.
As one website called it "The country must pick between curbing migration and maximising wealth."
Fourthly, as out voters themselves have said, immigrants are net contributors to public finances, so they more than pay their way for their use of health and education services. Without migrants from the EU your schools, hospitals and industries such as farming and the building trade would be short of labour.
Some mess you have gotten yourself into.
Another thing that Ive noticed is that the people pro Leave are now saying not to worry about any ramifications because they'll still be in the EU for another 2 years lying to get everybody to Leave and then when its done, they trackback saying being in EU for the next 2 years is a good thing.
Take out Germany, France, Italy (not far off being broke), Holland, Belgium and Denmark, the other 22 countries in the EU are either bankrupt, or still travelling by horse and cart or donkey.
This is why the EU is going to fail, it has no point other than 6 countries bailing out the other 22 - pointless.
We have a chance to reflect both on foreign policy and to reinvent UK plc.
I think British politics has to be applauded and particularly that of PM D.Cameron.
The UK is not a dictatorship, our PM didn't fall in my view as he offered us Scots a independence referendum then given the wider UK a vote on the EU.
I voted to remain in the UK and will do so again if need be. I also voted to leave the EU.
I think the PM has been brilliant in my view despite his political stance on the EU.
The UK has conducted itself in fantastic manner and I believe the world will look on in envy.
As a Scotsman passionate about the UK.
Your hurt is our hurt, your anger is our anger and your prosperity is our prosperity.
I'm proud to be British and to stand shoulder to shoulder with my brothers and sisters all over thr UK.
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 8 minutes ago
The aftermath has been as messy as the debate itself. Reading some of the comments on here has been quite depressing, for a country going it alone we don't seem very united, quite the opposite.
If it's not Remainers spitting the dummy it's Leavers being smug, there is a section of voters on both sides that have got no dignity in victory or defeat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good comment and good OP.
I am worried, because I don't see a united country and because there appears to be a very clear demographic split, with a nationalist leaning older generation and very clearly more liberal youth.
Maybe it was always this way and the vote has just highlighted the fact. But I don't think a conservative, isolationist government is going to help the nation's young people feel any more politically enfranchised.
To think Brits are working 40-60+ hour weeks while france, Italy and Spain moan about 35 hour working week and take our fee as the second highest contributer is beyond madness.
These economies are doomed.
"Take out Germany, France, Italy (not far off being broke), Holland, Belgium and Denmark, the other 22 countries in the EU are either bankrupt, or still travelling by horse and cart or donkey."
Really?
Where are people still commonly using a horse and cart? How many of those countries have you visited out of interest?
Spaire
As I said the relationship within the EU was difficult & complicated and not without its faults. But it was beneficial to UK citizens as much as it was a perceived hindrance. Like I said sacrifice on our part for reciprocated benefits.
In order to negotiate the 'divorce settlement', as it's being called, the migration situation won't change. We'll agree trade in return for free movement.
Money paid to the EU will be recouped. How that is distributed is anyone's guess. But equally subsidies for farmers has now disappeared along with EU funding for future projects.
With 48% of the voting public not wanting this, and an entire country in Scotland, the tub thumping claim of regaining our sovereignty and identity doesn't appear to be something that will happen anytime soon.
So what's changed?
I am Scottish but live in the south west, in a wee Remain enclave surrounded by outers. I'm disappointed in the outcome but I was out voted, what am I going to do about it, I can only get on with the rest of my life.
As for Scotland, I can't speak for what they think, my opinion is that it could go either way, either Remain in the UK and get on with it or as the SNP's raison d'etre is independence I can see them pushing for a 2nd referendum, don't know how that will go down as we'll have to take the Euro etc etc and this would be the 3rd referendum in as many years, fatigue will set in.
I was impressed and proud of Scotland at the Indy referendum, the debate was conducted in much more respectful manner so that after the vote and, excepting a few bampots, people could understand the others view and the country moved on together. The rumours and scandal that will follow brexit is down to our leaders behaviour through the 'debate'.
Hungry, Romania list is endless
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 11 seconds ago
Hungry, Romania list is endless
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The list seemed to end after 2
Still, nice of you to fit into the stereotype
I started out with the idea to vote leave based on my concern for the extra burden being put on the NHS and welfare state. I have also noticed the social landscape change rapidly over the last ten years, to my mind too much too soon.
I didn't go and vote out of instinct I researched my fears and found them to be pretty much unfounded.
Why would the British Medical Association encourage doctors to vote to stay in the EU? In fact immigrants do not overburden the NHS they make less use of it than their often obese and unfit English citizens. Immigrants also staff up the NHS and are reported to do a very fine job.
Add to this the grants provided by the EU to research of diseases like cancer which help to enable great strides in more effective and less uncomfortable treatments.
I was convinced my fellow Brits would do the same research and come to the same conclusion and I was dumfounded when I woke up only to find we are now heading towards the wilderness.
Sorry times indeed.
Hewho
"Take out Germany, France, Italy (not far off being broke), Holland, Belgium and Denmark, the other 22 countries in the EU are either bankrupt, or still travelling by horse and cart or donkey"
After the economic crash in 2008 pretty much every EU country took a hit. Was that as a result of being in the EU or because of wider world wide issues?
I also think it's a bit disingenuous and condescending saying 22 EU countries are either bankrupt or still travelling by horse and cart. How can you quantify this?
"We have a chance to reflect both on foreign policy and to reinvent UK plc"
How have the EU influenced UK foreign policy? Did we not go to war in coalition with the US?
We also traded with the EU within the agreement but also have international trade agreements with countries further afield.
No, you as the hypocrite you seem to be don't know anything about me or my knowledge of the EU. My politics are not perception but rather in facts. My vote was not made on immigration. All these politicians needed to do was replace the word immigrants or immigrant with the word people's or people and the case to leave would still be the same.
Generations of bad decisions by uk gov like housing and these fechers that buy up housing stock for profit coupled by eu membership have resulted in a bad cocktail.
2nd) diabolically foreign policy was never mentioned during eu run in and the UK was burdened and contributed to the mismanagement of the middle east.
Trade is not our biggest threat, foreign policy is.
Hector
"the SNP's raison d'etre is independence I can see them pushing for a 2nd referendum, don't know how that will go down as we'll have to take the Euro etc etc and this would be the 3rd referendum in as many years, fatigue will set in"
This is true, there's only so much you can take. It's complicated because it's effectively the fate of 4 countries being decided. The majority of England & Wales voted to leave with Scotland and NI voting to remain.
Yet the cote was done on the premise of making decisions for ourselves.
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 12 minutes ago
Hungry, Romania list is endless
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what you are talking about.
Hewho
"Generations of bad decisions by uk gov like housing and these fechers that buy up housing stock for profit coupled by eu membership have resulted in a bad cocktail."
Yes decisions on housing were made by our government with no intervention from the EU.
How has EU membership been detrimental? I'm yet to see an example of how you, or even us as a country, have been negatively affected by decisions made in Brussels?
Funny enough, no one knows what to do now. Politicians know that they've fecked the country's economy and probably won't see any major changes from being in EU as we still have to be part of free market/movement and subscribe to eu laws/fees.
The world is laughing at us right now. Even the eu leadership are now bullying us to get on with it and feck off asap.. it's saddening.
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 2 seconds ago
Funny enough, no one knows what to do now. Politicians know that they've fecked the country's economy and probably won't see any major changes from being in EU as we still have to be part of free market/movement and subscribe to eu laws/fees.
The world is laughing at us right now. Even the eu leadership are now bullying us to get on with it and feck off asap.. it's saddening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
It gives the impression this was an exercise to give the disaffected, people on lower wages who felt they have not been listened to by politicians, a chance to be heard on an issue that will make no real difference on the issues they're concerned with.
All I feel it will lead to is economic & political instability, in the short term. Who knows what it will lead to long term.
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problems in Spain & Greece didn't come about because they were EU members.
comment by CoutinhosHappyFeet (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problems in Spain & Greece didn't come about because they were EU members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think he is saying it is. His problem is who is paying to help Spain and Greece continue.
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 29 seconds ago
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still don't get.. Tell me, where are we now heading as a country? What do we do next?
Leave the free market of 500m ppl and decimate our economy and have the likes of France / Germany takeover our big money making institutions? Reduce our large economy to medium to get rid of immigration / eu laws/fees?
Remain part of free market and basically subscribe to 500m market/immigration/laws/fees but have no say in decision making? Get bullied by the eu?
Sign in if you want to comment
EU Referendum and the aftermath
Page 1 of 5
posted on 25/6/16
Well at least I got it off my chest
posted on 25/6/16
The aftermath has been as messy as the debate itself. Reading some of the comments on here has been quite depressing, for a country going it alone we don't seem very united, quite the opposite.
If it's not Remainers spitting the dummy it's Leavers being smug, there is a section of voters on both sides that have got no dignity in victory or defeat.
posted on 25/6/16
Hector
Very true. Putting the pettiness to one side I still for the life of me haven't got a clue of what's been voted for. Neither do people on both sides by the looks of it.
I can understand wanting change if it has a positive effect on the country both immediately and in the future. But what is going to change?
Your Scottish aren't you? What's your opinion and the consensus up there?
posted on 25/6/16
I have been reading some blogs on the matter from respectable news agents and other financial websites and it does seem to me you have made a terrible mistake. Cameron asked to wait 3 months to activate article 50, but the EU member states are already calling BS on that and it negotiations will have to start now, not in 3 months. You voted out, get on with it.
Secondly, one of the major subjects of the out campaign was the £350M contribution a week to the EU which could be spent on the NHS. Declared a 'mistake' within one hour of the victory for the out campaign.
Thirdly, if you want to join the single market like Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway (EEA) you would have to keep your borders open as well, and you would still have to adopt most EU legislation concerning the single market.
As one website called it "The country must pick between curbing migration and maximising wealth."
Fourthly, as out voters themselves have said, immigrants are net contributors to public finances, so they more than pay their way for their use of health and education services. Without migrants from the EU your schools, hospitals and industries such as farming and the building trade would be short of labour.
Some mess you have gotten yourself into.
posted on 25/6/16
Another thing that Ive noticed is that the people pro Leave are now saying not to worry about any ramifications because they'll still be in the EU for another 2 years lying to get everybody to Leave and then when its done, they trackback saying being in EU for the next 2 years is a good thing.
posted on 25/6/16
Take out Germany, France, Italy (not far off being broke), Holland, Belgium and Denmark, the other 22 countries in the EU are either bankrupt, or still travelling by horse and cart or donkey.
This is why the EU is going to fail, it has no point other than 6 countries bailing out the other 22 - pointless.
We have a chance to reflect both on foreign policy and to reinvent UK plc.
I think British politics has to be applauded and particularly that of PM D.Cameron.
The UK is not a dictatorship, our PM didn't fall in my view as he offered us Scots a independence referendum then given the wider UK a vote on the EU.
I voted to remain in the UK and will do so again if need be. I also voted to leave the EU.
I think the PM has been brilliant in my view despite his political stance on the EU.
The UK has conducted itself in fantastic manner and I believe the world will look on in envy.
As a Scotsman passionate about the UK.
Your hurt is our hurt, your anger is our anger and your prosperity is our prosperity.
I'm proud to be British and to stand shoulder to shoulder with my brothers and sisters all over thr UK.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 8 minutes ago
The aftermath has been as messy as the debate itself. Reading some of the comments on here has been quite depressing, for a country going it alone we don't seem very united, quite the opposite.
If it's not Remainers spitting the dummy it's Leavers being smug, there is a section of voters on both sides that have got no dignity in victory or defeat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good comment and good OP.
I am worried, because I don't see a united country and because there appears to be a very clear demographic split, with a nationalist leaning older generation and very clearly more liberal youth.
Maybe it was always this way and the vote has just highlighted the fact. But I don't think a conservative, isolationist government is going to help the nation's young people feel any more politically enfranchised.
posted on 25/6/16
To think Brits are working 40-60+ hour weeks while france, Italy and Spain moan about 35 hour working week and take our fee as the second highest contributer is beyond madness.
These economies are doomed.
posted on 25/6/16
"Take out Germany, France, Italy (not far off being broke), Holland, Belgium and Denmark, the other 22 countries in the EU are either bankrupt, or still travelling by horse and cart or donkey."
Really?
Where are people still commonly using a horse and cart? How many of those countries have you visited out of interest?
posted on 25/6/16
Spaire
As I said the relationship within the EU was difficult & complicated and not without its faults. But it was beneficial to UK citizens as much as it was a perceived hindrance. Like I said sacrifice on our part for reciprocated benefits.
In order to negotiate the 'divorce settlement', as it's being called, the migration situation won't change. We'll agree trade in return for free movement.
Money paid to the EU will be recouped. How that is distributed is anyone's guess. But equally subsidies for farmers has now disappeared along with EU funding for future projects.
With 48% of the voting public not wanting this, and an entire country in Scotland, the tub thumping claim of regaining our sovereignty and identity doesn't appear to be something that will happen anytime soon.
So what's changed?
posted on 25/6/16
I am Scottish but live in the south west, in a wee Remain enclave surrounded by outers. I'm disappointed in the outcome but I was out voted, what am I going to do about it, I can only get on with the rest of my life.
As for Scotland, I can't speak for what they think, my opinion is that it could go either way, either Remain in the UK and get on with it or as the SNP's raison d'etre is independence I can see them pushing for a 2nd referendum, don't know how that will go down as we'll have to take the Euro etc etc and this would be the 3rd referendum in as many years, fatigue will set in.
I was impressed and proud of Scotland at the Indy referendum, the debate was conducted in much more respectful manner so that after the vote and, excepting a few bampots, people could understand the others view and the country moved on together. The rumours and scandal that will follow brexit is down to our leaders behaviour through the 'debate'.
posted on 25/6/16
Hungry, Romania list is endless
posted on 25/6/16
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 11 seconds ago
Hungry, Romania list is endless
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The list seemed to end after 2
Still, nice of you to fit into the stereotype
posted on 25/6/16
I started out with the idea to vote leave based on my concern for the extra burden being put on the NHS and welfare state. I have also noticed the social landscape change rapidly over the last ten years, to my mind too much too soon.
I didn't go and vote out of instinct I researched my fears and found them to be pretty much unfounded.
Why would the British Medical Association encourage doctors to vote to stay in the EU? In fact immigrants do not overburden the NHS they make less use of it than their often obese and unfit English citizens. Immigrants also staff up the NHS and are reported to do a very fine job.
Add to this the grants provided by the EU to research of diseases like cancer which help to enable great strides in more effective and less uncomfortable treatments.
I was convinced my fellow Brits would do the same research and come to the same conclusion and I was dumfounded when I woke up only to find we are now heading towards the wilderness.
Sorry times indeed.
posted on 25/6/16
Hewho
"Take out Germany, France, Italy (not far off being broke), Holland, Belgium and Denmark, the other 22 countries in the EU are either bankrupt, or still travelling by horse and cart or donkey"
After the economic crash in 2008 pretty much every EU country took a hit. Was that as a result of being in the EU or because of wider world wide issues?
I also think it's a bit disingenuous and condescending saying 22 EU countries are either bankrupt or still travelling by horse and cart. How can you quantify this?
"We have a chance to reflect both on foreign policy and to reinvent UK plc"
How have the EU influenced UK foreign policy? Did we not go to war in coalition with the US?
We also traded with the EU within the agreement but also have international trade agreements with countries further afield.
posted on 25/6/16
No, you as the hypocrite you seem to be don't know anything about me or my knowledge of the EU. My politics are not perception but rather in facts. My vote was not made on immigration. All these politicians needed to do was replace the word immigrants or immigrant with the word people's or people and the case to leave would still be the same.
Generations of bad decisions by uk gov like housing and these fechers that buy up housing stock for profit coupled by eu membership have resulted in a bad cocktail.
2nd) diabolically foreign policy was never mentioned during eu run in and the UK was burdened and contributed to the mismanagement of the middle east.
Trade is not our biggest threat, foreign policy is.
posted on 25/6/16
Hector
"the SNP's raison d'etre is independence I can see them pushing for a 2nd referendum, don't know how that will go down as we'll have to take the Euro etc etc and this would be the 3rd referendum in as many years, fatigue will set in"
This is true, there's only so much you can take. It's complicated because it's effectively the fate of 4 countries being decided. The majority of England & Wales voted to leave with Scotland and NI voting to remain.
Yet the cote was done on the premise of making decisions for ourselves.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 12 minutes ago
Hungry, Romania list is endless
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what you are talking about.
posted on 25/6/16
Hewho
"Generations of bad decisions by uk gov like housing and these fechers that buy up housing stock for profit coupled by eu membership have resulted in a bad cocktail."
Yes decisions on housing were made by our government with no intervention from the EU.
How has EU membership been detrimental? I'm yet to see an example of how you, or even us as a country, have been negatively affected by decisions made in Brussels?
posted on 25/6/16
Funny enough, no one knows what to do now. Politicians know that they've fecked the country's economy and probably won't see any major changes from being in EU as we still have to be part of free market/movement and subscribe to eu laws/fees.
The world is laughing at us right now. Even the eu leadership are now bullying us to get on with it and feck off asap.. it's saddening.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 2 seconds ago
Funny enough, no one knows what to do now. Politicians know that they've fecked the country's economy and probably won't see any major changes from being in EU as we still have to be part of free market/movement and subscribe to eu laws/fees.
The world is laughing at us right now. Even the eu leadership are now bullying us to get on with it and feck off asap.. it's saddening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
It gives the impression this was an exercise to give the disaffected, people on lower wages who felt they have not been listened to by politicians, a chance to be heard on an issue that will make no real difference on the issues they're concerned with.
All I feel it will lead to is economic & political instability, in the short term. Who knows what it will lead to long term.
posted on 25/6/16
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problems in Spain & Greece didn't come about because they were EU members.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by CoutinhosHappyFeet (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problems in Spain & Greece didn't come about because they were EU members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think he is saying it is. His problem is who is paying to help Spain and Greece continue.
posted on 25/6/16
comment by HeWhoHingAbootGetHeeHaw (U19525)
posted 29 seconds ago
Fffffs the UK and Germany, Italy are triillion+ economies. While I'm bursting my arrrse of some fucukerrrr in Spain is taking a nap in the afternoon while in Athens some cant is building another pool he can't afford. The UK was 2nd biggest contributer to eu coffers.
The reasons to leave are fechhkkng endless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You still don't get.. Tell me, where are we now heading as a country? What do we do next?
Leave the free market of 500m ppl and decimate our economy and have the likes of France / Germany takeover our big money making institutions? Reduce our large economy to medium to get rid of immigration / eu laws/fees?
Remain part of free market and basically subscribe to 500m market/immigration/laws/fees but have no say in decision making? Get bullied by the eu?
Page 1 of 5