Most players say they joined those teams because mourinho convinced them too. The concept of mourinho's bargain signings always working is what i was driving at. You'd rarely find a mourinho bargain signing not making it. Unlike many fergie bargains, bebe and manucho to name a few.
He may well have said we underachieved, but I think had he been our manager in the 70's and 80's when all that was required was to beat a couple of army teams from eastern europe we'd have won it every year
We've been in the final three times in the past four years, it just so happens that we've been neaten twice by the team regarded by many as the best to ever play in europe.
You merely sound like another bitter and twisted liverpool fan who can't accept that for any manager to manage one team for 25 years, take them from near the bottom to the top for the past twenty years is just unthinkable. And that's without his time in Scotland, do me a favour your just a barmpot who is so sour you can't see the wood for the trees.
do me a favour your just a barmpot who is so sour you can't see the wood for the trees.
I think that's what the bbc said 7 years ago about someone
Mr Chelsea - i appreciate that you lean towards Mourinho, as i would lean towards Ferguson being a United fan, but i disagree with the points you think i got wrong. Namely:
"Mourinho used to make subs after just 30mins if he saw something wasnt right"
----------------------------
So does Ferguson - if there is one thing Fergie is not afraid of it is hauling someone off if they are not up to the task. My examples were simply two that came to mind immediately. As for putting Macheda on being classed tactical genius, of course it is - the whole point of the criteria is about game changing subs, he put that sub on and it changed the game....How many times has Fergie gambled when staring at a defeat with more attackers, and clawed something out of the game - what about Villa last year? 2-0 down and made some subs which turned the game around, or Blackpool....the man is simply a phenomenon.
"Man Management. Mourinho builds up a bond with his players wherever he goes. There's not one player who has complained about him bar Balotelli. Ridiculous as it sounds, Grown men have cried when Mourinho leaves"
--------------------
Eh?? So does Fergie - Ronaldo calls him his second father (considering he lost his own early in his life, i think that is a pretty strong statement), Beckham even despite their spat thinks warmly of him. Just because his leaving hasn't made someone cry doesnt meant his players don't love him. Even Heinze and Stam later admitted regretting leaving under a cloud. The fact is he hasn't left so you cant tell how sad players are - when he does i wonder how many United players will be devastated - i reckon it will be quite a few.
comment by IzutaDGuus - The ExtraTorresTrial - CL? - Its just a mata of sturridge playing and . . . well . . . time. (U3581)
posted 9 minutes ago
Most players say they joined those teams because mourinho convinced them too. The concept of mourinho's bargain signings always working is what i was driving at. You'd rarely find a mourinho bargain signing not making it. Unlike many fergie bargains, bebe and manucho to name a few.
--------------------------------------
or cantona, schmeichel, solskjaer.........................
1-2 years - Jose
2+ years - Fergie
In the prem - Fergie
Any other league - Jose
In Europe - Jose
With a chequebook - Fergie
With my wife - Fergie, she fancies Jose
man management ability - Fergie for me.
motivating players - tie, boths players look like they would do anything for them.
ability to develop players - Fergie, don't think this can be argued.
transfer window savvy - Jose, but very close.
tactical - tie, both tactically astute.
ability to change a game with subs - Jose.
media manipulation ability - Fergie, he is the boss of this.
adaptability - Fergie, changes the way we play a lot, Jose always seemed more of a one trick pony.
rebuilding teams ability - again Fergie, un-questionable.
All though on these categories i have Fergie well out in front, i don't believe there is much between them. Indeed they are both phenomenal managers, and When the day comes that Fergie retires, i think many, myself included, hope that Jose wants to finally settle down into a job for 15 years, and comes to United.
He has 2 European Cups.Not bad for a working class guy from Scotland eh
-------
What an odd comment.
What difference does it make where he came from?
The money United have and the fact that United and Madrid have been the richest clubs on the planet for the bulk of his tenure is telling.
The facts are only Barca Madrid and Milan have won it more in his time. three times.
-------
Ahhh but you're missing a key point here. The managers of the clubs were different and had less time.
Look what Guardiola has achieved more than Ferguson in Europe in a 1/5 of the time - Now that is telling.
"Look what Guardiola has achieved more than Ferguson in Europe in a 1/5 of the time - Now that is telling."
Incredible naiveity.
Mouseburger
They're both great managers in their own right. I respect Fergie anyway for what he's done with Utd and his time before that at Aberdeen. He's untouchable.
Mourinho's one downfall is that he never stays at a job long enough to try and emulate Fergie in longevity
Mourinho's like a managerial hoe
comment by IzutaDGuus - The ExtraTorresTrial - CL? - Its just a mata of sturridge playing and . . . well . . . time. (U3581)
posted 15 minutes ago
Most players say they joined those teams because mourinho convinced them too. The concept of mourinho's bargain signings always working is what i was driving at. You'd rarely find a mourinho bargain signing not making it. Unlike many fergie bargains, bebe and manucho to name a few.
------------------------------------------------------
what about
Gary Pallister £2.3 million
Teddy Sheringham, £3.5 million
Steve Bruce £800,000
Mark Hughes £1.8 million
Cristiano Ronaldo £12.24 million
Peter Schmeichel £530,000
Roy Keane, £3.75 million,
Eric Cantona £1.2 million
Nemanja Vidić £7 million
Ole Gunnar Solskjær £1.5 million
Patrice Evra £5.5 million
Wayne Rooney £27 million
Rio Ferdinand, £30 million
mourinho tend to buy more established internationally capped players so he cant really go wrong. There is a greater risk when buying unknown players.Im not saying SAF is better, just that one cant say which manager is better at transfer market because situations are different. on another note SAF is fully responsible for all signings but cant really say the same about mourinho
Mourinho's like a managerial hoe
-----------------------------------
thats harsh
had he been our manager in the 70's and 80's when all that was required was to beat a couple of army teams from eastern europe we'd have won it every year
------------------------------------
Shame he couldn't beat those army teams with Aberdeen is it not?
Through the 70s you had great Ajax, Bayern and Monchengladbach teams and then further down the line Saint-Etienne, Forest Juventus etc so i very much doubt you would have.
We beat a few top notch teams of the time on our way to winning our European cups. Yes there were a few 'army' teams going around but not much different to today, just in format.
For what's its worth however I do rate SAF as the greatest....
comment by IzutaDGuus - The ExtraTorresTrial - CL? - Its just a mata of sturridge playing and . . . well . . . time. (U3581)
I think mourinho wins on transfers though. Lucio, thiago motta and milito all for less than 2million pounds. Sneijder for fifteen. Eto'o virtually on a free. Same with sahin, ozil, and khedira
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolute nonsense! Millito and Motta came at a combined 20mil and Eto'o was valued at 20mil also. They got him in addition to cash in a swap with Ibra hardly Mourinho's doing. Sneijder was also pushed out of Madrid same as Lucio pushed out of Bayern.
Mourinho has made many bad buys and his ability to motivate is questionable. He's been poor in his communication with some players notably Pedro Leon, Benzema, Balotelli and Santon.
He's a great manager and will one day rival Fergie but not yet.
Btw looks? Really? If thats the criteria isn't Mancini the best in the world?
They're both great managers in their own right.
-----------------------------
That we can agree on - i am certainly not dismissing Mourinho as a bad manager at all, he is brilliant and, despite all his histrionics lately, if there is one person with the ego to take over from Fergie and not let it phase him it is Jose.
In terms of concentrated success in a short period of time (i.e. trophies divided by years), I guess Mourinho is ahead. But there's also something impressive - in a different way - about Ferguson's ability to maintain a successful team with a similar level of success over the course of two decades.
While Mourinho supporters can say he has proved it in different countries and has this phenomenal record (prior to Madrid at least), the counter argument might be that Mourinho has always brought about short-term success by concentrating the resources at his command on the 'now' - sometimes at the expense of the 'next'. Each of his clubs so far have been the richest in their leagues, and he has used those riches to fashion winning sides (or improve on already successful ones), but I can't think of many decisions he has made with an eye to the longer-term success of his club. He has moved on (cannily?) after short, successful stints at three clubs, and each of them has declined relatively following his departure. Undoubtedly, this is partly due to the fact that they have lost a great manager, but if you look at Chelsea for instance, a major problem since around 2006-7 has been the reliance on an ageing group of key players.
By contrast, Fergie has made one club his life's work. In a sense, he has been doing two jobs: where Mourinho (up till now at least) just works on this season, he is always juggling the demands of this season with the long game of preparing for the eventual replacement of current stars. In this respect, I think Mourinho still has something to prove, although I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him rise to the challenge (if he actually wanted to stay in one place that long).
Fergie. All day long. Twenty five year record at Utd, five maybe six completely rebuilt teams yet the trophies never stop coming. Not that I'm jealous
I mean being a lifelong trotter I me be hurled off the top of the West Stand AND East Stand for this but Fergie is streets ahead of everyone else in the prem era and frankly whomever gets the job after him has the worst job in the world. Mourinho can be replaced wherever he's been and constantly has been without seeing a huge dip or drop in results or fan confidence in the club but what have Aberdeen accomplished since the Fergie years?
He is simply irreplaceable. Someone will succeed him, sit in his chair and manage the Utd players but that person will NEVER replace him in the hearts and minds of Man Utd football club fans. He's actually the only man who could rival the late Sir Matt Busby and IMO the moment he leaves that office for the last time will be the most crucial in Utd history because get it wrong and like the post busby era it could be years before the red devils rise again.
You can't say that about Jose and I doubt you ever will. He's not got the same flair and passion for the task. He gets bored or argueswith players and board then spits his dummy and walks. Fergie has survived and prospered in one of fottball's biggest club jobs for more than a quarter of a century, seen owners, chairmen and boards change. seen players go through their entire careers and seen off every challenger outside. Arsenal, conquered. Chelsea, in the process of being replaced as the most credible threat by city and the unlimited cheque book. City? If I were a Manc Blue I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Mancini to take you past Utd and KEEP you there.
As long as SAF holds that job like it or not Utd wear the crown. They lend it out for a season or sometimes two but they always take it back. No one will be more bothered by the Barca Game than SAF and you'd better believe he won't EVER let that happen again.
Simply put Fergie is THE complete manager and is in the job he was born to do with the club he was destined to do it at. I hate it, really really hate it 'cos everyone I know living around me is a red fan but facts are facts. In a straight heads up Fergie v Mourinho it's the dour scotsman who wins every time.
What's Jose's record v Fergie ?
thats how you guage managers?!
Don't use superglue albooney.
It's just a question. I honestly don't know but from your reply, Jose's is better
>>thats how you guage managers?!
gauging managers is simple
you take each major trophy and divide it by the 5 year rolling average of the (squad cost + wages) relative to peers and then divide it by the total years managed at top level.
So in other words, Moyes would be an 'n/a'.
Benzema is currently in the best form of his life, mourinho made santon. He said so himself. Only the case of pedro leon has any credibility. And we all know what balotelli is. On fergie's side, we can call numerous great players that he's fallen out with.
i have no idea myself but judging by your "just a question" with at the end, you actually do and thought it meant he was the better manager because of it!
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Better of These Two
Page 4 of 5
posted on 6/9/11
Most players say they joined those teams because mourinho convinced them too. The concept of mourinho's bargain signings always working is what i was driving at. You'd rarely find a mourinho bargain signing not making it. Unlike many fergie bargains, bebe and manucho to name a few.
posted on 6/9/11
He may well have said we underachieved, but I think had he been our manager in the 70's and 80's when all that was required was to beat a couple of army teams from eastern europe we'd have won it every year
We've been in the final three times in the past four years, it just so happens that we've been neaten twice by the team regarded by many as the best to ever play in europe.
You merely sound like another bitter and twisted liverpool fan who can't accept that for any manager to manage one team for 25 years, take them from near the bottom to the top for the past twenty years is just unthinkable. And that's without his time in Scotland, do me a favour your just a barmpot who is so sour you can't see the wood for the trees.
posted on 6/9/11
do me a favour your just a barmpot who is so sour you can't see the wood for the trees.
I think that's what the bbc said 7 years ago about someone
posted on 6/9/11
Mr Chelsea - i appreciate that you lean towards Mourinho, as i would lean towards Ferguson being a United fan, but i disagree with the points you think i got wrong. Namely:
"Mourinho used to make subs after just 30mins if he saw something wasnt right"
----------------------------
So does Ferguson - if there is one thing Fergie is not afraid of it is hauling someone off if they are not up to the task. My examples were simply two that came to mind immediately. As for putting Macheda on being classed tactical genius, of course it is - the whole point of the criteria is about game changing subs, he put that sub on and it changed the game....How many times has Fergie gambled when staring at a defeat with more attackers, and clawed something out of the game - what about Villa last year? 2-0 down and made some subs which turned the game around, or Blackpool....the man is simply a phenomenon.
"Man Management. Mourinho builds up a bond with his players wherever he goes. There's not one player who has complained about him bar Balotelli. Ridiculous as it sounds, Grown men have cried when Mourinho leaves"
--------------------
Eh?? So does Fergie - Ronaldo calls him his second father (considering he lost his own early in his life, i think that is a pretty strong statement), Beckham even despite their spat thinks warmly of him. Just because his leaving hasn't made someone cry doesnt meant his players don't love him. Even Heinze and Stam later admitted regretting leaving under a cloud. The fact is he hasn't left so you cant tell how sad players are - when he does i wonder how many United players will be devastated - i reckon it will be quite a few.
posted on 6/9/11
comment by IzutaDGuus - The ExtraTorresTrial - CL? - Its just a mata of sturridge playing and . . . well . . . time. (U3581)
posted 9 minutes ago
Most players say they joined those teams because mourinho convinced them too. The concept of mourinho's bargain signings always working is what i was driving at. You'd rarely find a mourinho bargain signing not making it. Unlike many fergie bargains, bebe and manucho to name a few.
--------------------------------------
or cantona, schmeichel, solskjaer.........................
posted on 6/9/11
1-2 years - Jose
2+ years - Fergie
In the prem - Fergie
Any other league - Jose
In Europe - Jose
With a chequebook - Fergie
With my wife - Fergie, she fancies Jose
posted on 6/9/11
man management ability - Fergie for me.
motivating players - tie, boths players look like they would do anything for them.
ability to develop players - Fergie, don't think this can be argued.
transfer window savvy - Jose, but very close.
tactical - tie, both tactically astute.
ability to change a game with subs - Jose.
media manipulation ability - Fergie, he is the boss of this.
adaptability - Fergie, changes the way we play a lot, Jose always seemed more of a one trick pony.
rebuilding teams ability - again Fergie, un-questionable.
All though on these categories i have Fergie well out in front, i don't believe there is much between them. Indeed they are both phenomenal managers, and When the day comes that Fergie retires, i think many, myself included, hope that Jose wants to finally settle down into a job for 15 years, and comes to United.
posted on 6/9/11
He has 2 European Cups.Not bad for a working class guy from Scotland eh
-------
What an odd comment.
What difference does it make where he came from?
The money United have and the fact that United and Madrid have been the richest clubs on the planet for the bulk of his tenure is telling.
posted on 6/9/11
The facts are only Barca Madrid and Milan have won it more in his time. three times.
-------
Ahhh but you're missing a key point here. The managers of the clubs were different and had less time.
Look what Guardiola has achieved more than Ferguson in Europe in a 1/5 of the time - Now that is telling.
posted on 6/9/11
"Look what Guardiola has achieved more than Ferguson in Europe in a 1/5 of the time - Now that is telling."
Incredible naiveity.
posted on 6/9/11
Mouseburger
They're both great managers in their own right. I respect Fergie anyway for what he's done with Utd and his time before that at Aberdeen. He's untouchable.
Mourinho's one downfall is that he never stays at a job long enough to try and emulate Fergie in longevity
Mourinho's like a managerial hoe
posted on 6/9/11
comment by IzutaDGuus - The ExtraTorresTrial - CL? - Its just a mata of sturridge playing and . . . well . . . time. (U3581)
posted 15 minutes ago
Most players say they joined those teams because mourinho convinced them too. The concept of mourinho's bargain signings always working is what i was driving at. You'd rarely find a mourinho bargain signing not making it. Unlike many fergie bargains, bebe and manucho to name a few.
------------------------------------------------------
what about
Gary Pallister £2.3 million
Teddy Sheringham, £3.5 million
Steve Bruce £800,000
Mark Hughes £1.8 million
Cristiano Ronaldo £12.24 million
Peter Schmeichel £530,000
Roy Keane, £3.75 million,
Eric Cantona £1.2 million
Nemanja Vidić £7 million
Ole Gunnar Solskjær £1.5 million
Patrice Evra £5.5 million
Wayne Rooney £27 million
Rio Ferdinand, £30 million
mourinho tend to buy more established internationally capped players so he cant really go wrong. There is a greater risk when buying unknown players.Im not saying SAF is better, just that one cant say which manager is better at transfer market because situations are different. on another note SAF is fully responsible for all signings but cant really say the same about mourinho
posted on 6/9/11
Mourinho's like a managerial hoe
-----------------------------------
thats harsh
posted on 6/9/11
had he been our manager in the 70's and 80's when all that was required was to beat a couple of army teams from eastern europe we'd have won it every year
------------------------------------
Shame he couldn't beat those army teams with Aberdeen is it not?
Through the 70s you had great Ajax, Bayern and Monchengladbach teams and then further down the line Saint-Etienne, Forest Juventus etc so i very much doubt you would have.
We beat a few top notch teams of the time on our way to winning our European cups. Yes there were a few 'army' teams going around but not much different to today, just in format.
For what's its worth however I do rate SAF as the greatest....
posted on 6/9/11
comment by IzutaDGuus - The ExtraTorresTrial - CL? - Its just a mata of sturridge playing and . . . well . . . time. (U3581)
I think mourinho wins on transfers though. Lucio, thiago motta and milito all for less than 2million pounds. Sneijder for fifteen. Eto'o virtually on a free. Same with sahin, ozil, and khedira
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolute nonsense! Millito and Motta came at a combined 20mil and Eto'o was valued at 20mil also. They got him in addition to cash in a swap with Ibra hardly Mourinho's doing. Sneijder was also pushed out of Madrid same as Lucio pushed out of Bayern.
Mourinho has made many bad buys and his ability to motivate is questionable. He's been poor in his communication with some players notably Pedro Leon, Benzema, Balotelli and Santon.
He's a great manager and will one day rival Fergie but not yet.
Btw looks? Really? If thats the criteria isn't Mancini the best in the world?
posted on 6/9/11
They're both great managers in their own right.
-----------------------------
That we can agree on - i am certainly not dismissing Mourinho as a bad manager at all, he is brilliant and, despite all his histrionics lately, if there is one person with the ego to take over from Fergie and not let it phase him it is Jose.
posted on 6/9/11
In terms of concentrated success in a short period of time (i.e. trophies divided by years), I guess Mourinho is ahead. But there's also something impressive - in a different way - about Ferguson's ability to maintain a successful team with a similar level of success over the course of two decades.
While Mourinho supporters can say he has proved it in different countries and has this phenomenal record (prior to Madrid at least), the counter argument might be that Mourinho has always brought about short-term success by concentrating the resources at his command on the 'now' - sometimes at the expense of the 'next'. Each of his clubs so far have been the richest in their leagues, and he has used those riches to fashion winning sides (or improve on already successful ones), but I can't think of many decisions he has made with an eye to the longer-term success of his club. He has moved on (cannily?) after short, successful stints at three clubs, and each of them has declined relatively following his departure. Undoubtedly, this is partly due to the fact that they have lost a great manager, but if you look at Chelsea for instance, a major problem since around 2006-7 has been the reliance on an ageing group of key players.
By contrast, Fergie has made one club his life's work. In a sense, he has been doing two jobs: where Mourinho (up till now at least) just works on this season, he is always juggling the demands of this season with the long game of preparing for the eventual replacement of current stars. In this respect, I think Mourinho still has something to prove, although I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him rise to the challenge (if he actually wanted to stay in one place that long).
posted on 6/9/11
Fergie. All day long. Twenty five year record at Utd, five maybe six completely rebuilt teams yet the trophies never stop coming. Not that I'm jealous
I mean being a lifelong trotter I me be hurled off the top of the West Stand AND East Stand for this but Fergie is streets ahead of everyone else in the prem era and frankly whomever gets the job after him has the worst job in the world. Mourinho can be replaced wherever he's been and constantly has been without seeing a huge dip or drop in results or fan confidence in the club but what have Aberdeen accomplished since the Fergie years?
He is simply irreplaceable. Someone will succeed him, sit in his chair and manage the Utd players but that person will NEVER replace him in the hearts and minds of Man Utd football club fans. He's actually the only man who could rival the late Sir Matt Busby and IMO the moment he leaves that office for the last time will be the most crucial in Utd history because get it wrong and like the post busby era it could be years before the red devils rise again.
You can't say that about Jose and I doubt you ever will. He's not got the same flair and passion for the task. He gets bored or argueswith players and board then spits his dummy and walks. Fergie has survived and prospered in one of fottball's biggest club jobs for more than a quarter of a century, seen owners, chairmen and boards change. seen players go through their entire careers and seen off every challenger outside. Arsenal, conquered. Chelsea, in the process of being replaced as the most credible threat by city and the unlimited cheque book. City? If I were a Manc Blue I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Mancini to take you past Utd and KEEP you there.
As long as SAF holds that job like it or not Utd wear the crown. They lend it out for a season or sometimes two but they always take it back. No one will be more bothered by the Barca Game than SAF and you'd better believe he won't EVER let that happen again.
Simply put Fergie is THE complete manager and is in the job he was born to do with the club he was destined to do it at. I hate it, really really hate it 'cos everyone I know living around me is a red fan but facts are facts. In a straight heads up Fergie v Mourinho it's the dour scotsman who wins every time.
posted on 6/9/11
luckyPeterpiper
posted on 6/9/11
What's Jose's record v Fergie ?
posted on 6/9/11
thats how you guage managers?!
posted on 6/9/11
Don't use superglue albooney.
It's just a question. I honestly don't know but from your reply, Jose's is better
posted on 6/9/11
>>thats how you guage managers?!
gauging managers is simple
you take each major trophy and divide it by the 5 year rolling average of the (squad cost + wages) relative to peers and then divide it by the total years managed at top level.
So in other words, Moyes would be an 'n/a'.
posted on 6/9/11
Benzema is currently in the best form of his life, mourinho made santon. He said so himself. Only the case of pedro leon has any credibility. And we all know what balotelli is. On fergie's side, we can call numerous great players that he's fallen out with.
posted on 6/9/11
i have no idea myself but judging by your "just a question" with at the end, you actually do and thought it meant he was the better manager because of it!
Page 4 of 5