Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 6 minutes ago
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
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fack me the delusion is just sad. All the rules in religious texts were created and written by men.
Most wars are about power and wealth, I include land in that. Often wars like the former Yugoslavia are sometimes reported as being religious as the Serbs came under the banner of Christian (but as a Christian I can say they deinitely are not genuine Christians) and they fought Muslim Kosovo and Serbia. It was about a long runnig fued and wanting power and land from a different creed. I dont think that was a genuine religious war, but one that got mixed up under that banner as it was convenient to do so.
...........................................
So religion exacerbated the situation and helped draw more people in and inspire them to action than would have otherwise?
So even though the conflict might have originally started as one for power or wealth the sides decided to use religion as an aide to inspire those on their side in the conflict.
It is perhaps the ultimate argument, the all knowing good guy is backing your side.
I wouldn't deny that you could perhaps increase the likelihood of an atheist joining the cause of another group because they are atheists but there really isn't the same draw....
Some heathens killing gods chosen people or fighting for the one true god just has a much bigger pull on people than hey you don't believe in god either so lets kill these people who do...
The US have invade Iraq and Afghanistan and have intervened in Libya and many other countries. They were behind the "revolution" which toppled the legitimate Ukrainian government which then went on to victimize the 40 percent of the Ukrainian population who's native language is Russian, provoking an uprising. The US saw in this an opportunity to escalate their conflict with Russia - a policy which they had been following for some time, and they encouraged the Ukrainian government to crack down hard instead of compromising. Putin's (indirect) support of the rebels and the events in the Crimea - an area populated by Russians and Tartarians and a part of Russia until Chruchtchov's strange deal - was just a reaction to that.
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power -I'm a .....¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (U8398)
posted 1 minute ago
The same can be said of Christianity, how many have actually been killed because of the teaching of Christ? I would say zero, because if they followed the teaching of Christ they wouldn't be killing in the name of him.
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Did Christ have anything to say about the death penalty?
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Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
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So a true Christian should never vote for or follow anyone who advocates the death penalty?
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There is certainly an arguement for that. Most Christians are I know are pro life so would not want to back anyone who advocates abortion.
So who would you choose if you had a choice of Trump who wants the death penalty for convicted criminals or Hilary who supports full term abortion for any reason (the claims that it is for the health of the mother were weak and a claim by the mother that their mental health was suffering was deemed sufficent evicence to allow an abortion at any time up to birth according to what she has said in the past, meaning they just have to lie).
Personally I find the thought of abortion as murder of unborn children who would otherwise survive, so Trump is easily the lesser of 2 evils on that one.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Like I said being good is subjective.
I was born here but my background is Moroccan and 95% of my extended family live in that country.
There is now only one country standing in the way of Libya (ravaged by extremists) and Morocco and that's Algeria.
People who put on a British/American military uniform thought they were doing good work by demolishing almost every country between Libya and Iraq and now it's on the door step of my family.
Not only that but if I don't call these men heroes I'm considered to be some kind of extremist by some people.
For me all of that is pure evil, the Islamic rules of engagement tell me that I can't hurt anybody in battle except men of fighting age who are also trying to kill me.
That speaks to me morally and it also allows me to call out those who pretend to be moral but kill innocent civilians.
Collateral damage doesn't exist. Going into a war knowing that innocent people will die isn't honourable it's morally bankrupt.
Others disagree and say it has to happen and then call people who voluntarily do the killing heroes.
So it doesn't really matter if you are born innocent the human brain will be corrupted.
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
...........................................
Apart from maybe some disagreements with the last paragraph I really like this post
Kung Fu, what do you think about the regime in Morocco?
The Ukrainians toppled their own government.
-----------------------------------
No, a mob in Kiev did it, aided and abetted by Western governments, agencies and organizations. The Russian speaking part of the population in the Eastern provinces did not agree with the toppling of the legitimate government.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power -I'm a .....¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (U8398)
posted 1 minute ago
The same can be said of Christianity, how many have actually been killed because of the teaching of Christ? I would say zero, because if they followed the teaching of Christ they wouldn't be killing in the name of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Christ have anything to say about the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So a true Christian should never vote for or follow anyone who advocates the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is certainly an arguement for that. Most Christians are I know are pro life so would not want to back anyone who advocates abortion.
So who would you choose if you had a choice of Trump who wants the death penalty for convicted criminals or Hilary who supports full term abortion for any reason (the claims that it is for the health of the mother were weak and a claim by the mother that their mental health was suffering was deemed sufficent evicence to allow an abortion at any time up to birth according to what she has said in the past, meaning they just have to lie).
Personally I find the thought of abortion as murder of unborn children who would otherwise survive, so Trump is easily the lesser of 2 evils on that one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Survive what? Would you favour the abortion of an unborn child who will probably die at birth? Or as an infant (first 24 months)? Or before the age of 5? Or a month before a term pregnancy?
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tbh they are all books written by people. Why should people take them so seriously? Some people people kill for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religious books contain a set of values the followers hold dear.
Constitutions hold values that nationalists hold dear.
Both sets of followers kill, it isn't exclusive to religion.
More people have been killed in the name of democracy in recent years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really need a book to tell you how to live your life?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good question.
It depends what's in the book and what a set of rules represent.
Being good is subjective. Bin Laden thought he was being good as did George Bush.
People think it's good to join the EDL and keep Britain white and others think it's good to not allow women to drive or go to school.
For me personally the Quran provides me with a moral anchor but don't confuse that with not having your own brain.
I studied my beliefs and approached it with a critical mind, I questioned why people like Bin Laden did the thing he did whilst calling him self a Muslim, I questioned why the Saudi's treat women the way they do and I questioned why honour killings and FGM existed and a lot more.
I found satisfying answers which is why I get frustrated when people assume that a religion says something without knowledge when I and many others have studied and continue to study the depth of religion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are born innocent and we are also given genes to protect our species. We are moral people by and large. No book changes that.
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Actually, the species protects the gene, but
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Kung Fu, what do you think about the regime in Morocco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The King?
He's just alright, he's progressed the country since his dad died but that wasn't hard to do. As a Muslim I don't think I agree with the way all Muslim leaders go about their business.
Instead of unifying the Islamic world they are more concerned about their thrones.
Having said that most of the Islamic world (excluding Morocco) had leaders thrust upon them by Europe or America which is why I attribute most of the blame for the ME being the way it is on Western governments.
It's important that you notice I said governments and not people.
Heck, these countries in the ME didn't even exist until after the 2nd world war. Borders drawn by our generals. Nationalism acted as a cancer to the region, no longer brothers but competitors.
I dislike religion and nationalism equally and find them both dangerous. I do think a lot of the latter wouldn't exist if the former didn't though.
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 8 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi - Got_Nameback (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
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Nationalism has a pretty poor, correction, universally terrible record of securing global stability Robb.
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So has cimmunism, just look at the history of Russia (Stalin in particular), China, North Korea and others. Their influence on world peace and human rights is very poor.
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Who is advocating communism?
All I'm doing is pointing out that nationalist politics is not a choice that feeds localised or global international stability.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Kung Fu, what do you think about the regime in Morocco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The King?
He's just alright, he's progressed the country since his dad died but that wasn't hard to do. As a Muslim I don't think I agree with the way all Muslim leaders go about their business.
Instead of unifying the Islamic world they are more concerned about their thrones.
Having said that most of the Islamic world (excluding Morocco) had leaders thrust upon them by Europe or America which is why I attribute most of the blame for the ME being the way it is on Western governments.
It's important that you notice I said governments and not people.
Heck, these countries in the ME didn't even exist until after the 2nd world war. Borders drawn by our generals. Nationalism acted as a cancer to the region, no longer brothers but competitors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was asking on the back of your comments about the West's involvement, remembering the questionable human rights record, treatment of dissenting journalists, Amnesty reports of widespread torture, the contentious occupation and colonisation of the Western Sahara...
I don't know, tbh mate, I think that while there's much to be questioned when it comes to Western nations' foreign policies (I'm aware that Morocco itself has received a lot of Western support), the regimes in many Arab nations still have a lot to answer for.
As for the borders, I read an interesting article recently where it says that the real problem isn't the borders. Take a look; it makes some interesting and valid points:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/stop-blaming-colonial-borders-for-the-middle-easts-problems/279561/
(I recommend reading through to the end, as it doesn't absolve colonial powers of responsibility, but it give an alternative and, imo, more convincing explanation).
I checked out Syria as an example and went through the Wikipedia entries for each of the periods in Syrian history. Those straight lines on the map were by no means an innovation introduced by European powers.
The variation in the borders of what has roughly been considered Syria down the centuries is huge.
Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
I agree with all that you said about the Moroccan authorities which is why I have never tried to protect them or talked highly of them.
One thing you missed off the list though, the Moroccan authorities also used to toucher people for the CIA and MI6 when extraordinary rendition was still fashionable.
Probably still is actually.
I read the article, very interesting but I never attributed all of the blame to new borders although I still think they play a part.
Selecting psychopaths to look after these new nations contributed to the demise of the middle-east.
Getting bored of these psychopaths, funding bloody military coups and replacing the old psychopaths with new psychopaths also contributed to the demise of the Middle-East.
Invading the Middle-East and killing millions because your new psychopaths wont play ball anymore contributed even more to the demise of the Middle-East.
People were furious in this country that the rest of Europe had a tiny say in the way in which this country is run. Imagine how the Arabs feel about never calling the shots on any legislations their hand picked psychopaths force upon them.
Imagine being told that you are a terrorist for resisting as well, like the Palestinians have been labeled time and time again.
We have people on this thread that actually think it was ok for the Palestinians not to be able to determine whether they wanted to hand over their land or not.
They don't find the fact that they were forced to leave or killed morally disturbing.
They actually find the fact that Palestinians didn't want a new nation built on their homes and property as some kind of anti semitic slur.
All common sense goes out of the window when people think about the Middle-East.
This isn't a rant at you #justsayin
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 8 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tbh they are all books written by people. Why should people take them so seriously? Some people people kill for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religious books contain a set of values the followers hold dear.
Constitutions hold values that nationalists hold dear.
Both sets of followers kill, it isn't exclusive to religion.
More people have been killed in the name of democracy in recent years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really need a book to tell you how to live your life?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good question.
It depends what's in the book and what a set of rules represent.
Being good is subjective. Bin Laden thought he was being good as did George Bush.
People think it's good to join the EDL and keep Britain white and others think it's good to not allow women to drive or go to school.
For me personally the Quran provides me with a moral anchor but don't confuse that with not having your own brain.
I studied my beliefs and approached it with a critical mind, I questioned why people like Bin Laden did the thing he did whilst calling him self a Muslim, I questioned why the Saudi's treat women the way they do and I questioned why honour killings and FGM existed and a lot more.
I found satisfying answers which is why I get frustrated when people assume that a religion says something without knowledge when I and many others have studied and continue to study the depth of religion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are born innocent and we are also given genes to protect our species. We are moral people by and large. No book changes that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said being good is subjective.
I was born here but my background is Moroccan and 95% of my extended family live in that country.
There is now only one country standing in the way of Libya (ravaged by extremists) and Morocco and that's Algeria.
People who put on a British/American military uniform thought they were doing good work by demolishing almost every country between Libya and Iraq and now it's on the door step of my family.
Not only that but if I don't call these men heroes I'm considered to be some kind of extremist by some people.
For me all of that is pure evil, the Islamic rules of engagement tell me that I can't hurt anybody in battle except men of fighting age who are also trying to kill me.
That speaks to me morally and it also allows me to call out those who pretend to be moral but kill innocent civilians.
Collateral damage doesn't exist. Going into a war knowing that innocent people will die isn't honourable it's morally bankrupt.
Others disagree and say it has to happen and then call people who voluntarily do the killing heroes.
So it doesn't really matter if you are born innocent the human brain will be corrupted.
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rules of engagement I followed in Bosnia were the same. Don't shoot until fired upon, or if your life is in eminent danger. It's not just an Islamic morality thing.
10.6 % of the imprisoned population in the Netherlands, where I am from, is Moroccan, which is the largest group of one foreign nationality. I guess they didn't follow the rules of my country. But Moroccans only count for 2.2% of our population. They are a society in the Netherlands who seemingly not really want to or able to integrate. My sister and her family were terrorised by a group of Moroccan kids as wrte other people in the neighborhood. At some point they had to put camera's up as bricks came flying through my sister's windows. My nephews were terrified. People sold their houses at a loss and left. It went all the way up to the government. Police couldn't do jack sheite. Moroccan parents don't correct their children. It's a facking mess. Later one of the cants died in a police chase. His death was much appreciated I can tell you that much.
All this fuels right wing sentiments in Holland. As it does in all countries.
comment by Dude Bro (U1250)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 8 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tbh they are all books written by people. Why should people take them so seriously? Some people people kill for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religious books contain a set of values the followers hold dear.
Constitutions hold values that nationalists hold dear.
Both sets of followers kill, it isn't exclusive to religion.
More people have been killed in the name of democracy in recent years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really need a book to tell you how to live your life?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good question.
It depends what's in the book and what a set of rules represent.
Being good is subjective. Bin Laden thought he was being good as did George Bush.
People think it's good to join the EDL and keep Britain white and others think it's good to not allow women to drive or go to school.
For me personally the Quran provides me with a moral anchor but don't confuse that with not having your own brain.
I studied my beliefs and approached it with a critical mind, I questioned why people like Bin Laden did the thing he did whilst calling him self a Muslim, I questioned why the Saudi's treat women the way they do and I questioned why honour killings and FGM existed and a lot more.
I found satisfying answers which is why I get frustrated when people assume that a religion says something without knowledge when I and many others have studied and continue to study the depth of religion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are born innocent and we are also given genes to protect our species. We are moral people by and large. No book changes that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said being good is subjective.
I was born here but my background is Moroccan and 95% of my extended family live in that country.
There is now only one country standing in the way of Libya (ravaged by extremists) and Morocco and that's Algeria.
People who put on a British/American military uniform thought they were doing good work by demolishing almost every country between Libya and Iraq and now it's on the door step of my family.
Not only that but if I don't call these men heroes I'm considered to be some kind of extremist by some people.
For me all of that is pure evil, the Islamic rules of engagement tell me that I can't hurt anybody in battle except men of fighting age who are also trying to kill me.
That speaks to me morally and it also allows me to call out those who pretend to be moral but kill innocent civilians.
Collateral damage doesn't exist. Going into a war knowing that innocent people will die isn't honourable it's morally bankrupt.
Others disagree and say it has to happen and then call people who voluntarily do the killing heroes.
So it doesn't really matter if you are born innocent the human brain will be corrupted.
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rules of engagement I followed in Bosnia were the same. Don't shoot until fired upon, or if your life is in eminent danger. It's not just an Islamic morality thing.
10.6 % of the imprisoned population in the Netherlands, where I am from, is Moroccan, which is the largest group of one foreign nationality. I guess they didn't follow the rules of my country. But Moroccans only count for 2.2% of our population. They are a society in the Netherlands who seemingly not really want to or able to integrate. My sister and her family were terrorised by a group of Moroccan kids as wrte other people in the neighborhood. At some point they had to put camera's up as bricks came flying through my sister's windows. My nephews were terrified. People sold their houses at a loss and left. It went all the way up to the government. Police couldn't do jack sheite. Moroccan parents don't correct their children. It's a facking mess. Later one of the cants died in a police chase. His death was much appreciated I can tell you that much.
All this fuels right wing sentiments in Holland. As it does in all countries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair points, dude.
You can relate to why European's feel mass movement of people into europe is not simply positive or welcome.
It is all about numbers too, as we have to be humane and do the right thing, morally.
Balance is vital.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 4 hours, 29 minutes ago
This isn't a rant at you #justsayin
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I get that. We agree on a lot of issues.
I just found that border article interesting enough to point it out.
The issue of democracy is a funny one. The West only wants elected governments if they don't feel said gov's are a threat to their interests. Look at how long Mursi lasted.
Morocco in with Western secret services...I didn't leave it out, it was just a quick top-of-the-head list, not intended to be exhaustive. I've come to assume this sort of complicity is more or less par for the course for countries without a strong accountability system.
What beats me is how we still tolerate this kind of behaviour from our own secret services in our home societies.
None of this is to relieve the Arab world's leaders of their own responsibility, but you are right: they are by and large a bunch of murderous, corrupt psychopaths installed or maintained with Western support. People prefer to bury their heads in the sand on these and many other foreign policy and commercial issues and their relation to our standard of living in the West.
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 9 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power -I'm a .....¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (U8398)
posted 1 minute ago
The same can be said of Christianity, how many have actually been killed because of the teaching of Christ? I would say zero, because if they followed the teaching of Christ they wouldn't be killing in the name of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Christ have anything to say about the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So a true Christian should never vote for or follow anyone who advocates the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is certainly an arguement for that. Most Christians are I know are pro life so would not want to back anyone who advocates abortion.
So who would you choose if you had a choice of Trump who wants the death penalty for convicted criminals or Hilary who supports full term abortion for any reason (the claims that it is for the health of the mother were weak and a claim by the mother that their mental health was suffering was deemed sufficent evicence to allow an abortion at any time up to birth according to what she has said in the past, meaning they just have to lie).
Personally I find the thought of abortion as murder of unborn children who would otherwise survive, so Trump is easily the lesser of 2 evils on that one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Survive what? Would you favour the abortion of an unborn child who will probably die at birth? Or as an infant (first 24 months)? Or before the age of 5? Or a month before a term pregnancy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there is a risk to the mother's health I wouldmake a concession that they may choose what to do, there may also be other reasons it could be conceded such as rape victims. Other than that I see abortion as murder. Why should a child that will live be killed just because the mother cant take responsibility for their actions? I suggest you look at the process of abortion if you disagree, particularly late term abortion that Hilary Clinton has publicly stated she supports (and has been paid millions for doing so).
As for the cause of the problems in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and the rest of the world, I think ou are al wrong in your blaming religion, nationalism, etc.
I think it is purely down to greed.
Greed for power, greed for land, greed for riches.
What we see with most wars atm is that the sides are usually decided by religion or nationalism, but if you look at mankind you will see others as well. Gangs in inner cities and other criminals are an example of that on a smaller scale. religion and natinalism are just the most common excuse for this on a large scale atm.
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 10 minutes ago
If there is a risk to the mother's health I wouldmake a concession that they may choose what to do, there may also be other reasons it could be conceded such as rape victims. Other than that I see abortion as murder. Why should a child that will live be killed just because the mother cant take responsibility for their actions? I suggest you look at the process of abortion if you disagree, particularly late term abortion that Hilary Clinton has publicly stated she supports (and has been paid millions for doing so).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How late is late-term abortion? If it's at any point after which a foetus would be able to survive outside the uterus provided the appropriate medical care (what's that, around 6-7 months?) then it's also something I'd have issues with. However, this is definitely not a clear-cut issue everyone agrees upon. Establishing a position on the death penalty is far easier because it's far less ambiguous.
Notwithstanding, iag, something that grates me personally is that people only ever mention two options when it comes to voting. By the time we reach an adult age, we have by and large been brainwashed to believe we only have two choices when it comes to voting. That's rubbish. Especially if we need to decide on issues that morally matter to us so much. Imagine being in the biscuit aisle at the supermarket, 100 brands of bikkies on offer, but feeling you can only choose between two of them. Not only that, but the one you choose is the biscuit you're going to have to eat every day for the next four years.
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 11 minutes ago
As for the cause of the problems in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and the rest of the world, I think ou are al wrong in your blaming religion, nationalism, etc.
I think it is purely down to greed.
Greed for power, greed for land, greed for riches.
What we see with most wars atm is that the sides are usually decided by religion or nationalism, but if you look at mankind you will see others as well. Gangs in inner cities and other criminals are an example of that on a smaller scale. religion and natinalism are just the most common excuse for this on a large scale atm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A-greed. I was recently arguing on another thread that the true driver behind the immense majority of conflicts was the struggle for resources.
However, nationalism is to a certain extent a manifestation of greed, and an often very extreme one at that.
An interesting story about Islam is their time in Spain with some parallels to today.
A long period of harmony and happiness but ruined by internal fighting which ended up destroying the peace.
Would have loved to have visited Córdoba back in the 11th century. Probably as close to complete multi-religious harmony one can get
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trump supporters
Page 11 of 15
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posted on 30/12/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/12/16
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 6 minutes ago
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fack me the delusion is just sad. All the rules in religious texts were created and written by men.
posted on 30/12/16
Most wars are about power and wealth, I include land in that. Often wars like the former Yugoslavia are sometimes reported as being religious as the Serbs came under the banner of Christian (but as a Christian I can say they deinitely are not genuine Christians) and they fought Muslim Kosovo and Serbia. It was about a long runnig fued and wanting power and land from a different creed. I dont think that was a genuine religious war, but one that got mixed up under that banner as it was convenient to do so.
...........................................
So religion exacerbated the situation and helped draw more people in and inspire them to action than would have otherwise?
So even though the conflict might have originally started as one for power or wealth the sides decided to use religion as an aide to inspire those on their side in the conflict.
It is perhaps the ultimate argument, the all knowing good guy is backing your side.
I wouldn't deny that you could perhaps increase the likelihood of an atheist joining the cause of another group because they are atheists but there really isn't the same draw....
Some heathens killing gods chosen people or fighting for the one true god just has a much bigger pull on people than hey you don't believe in god either so lets kill these people who do...
posted on 30/12/16
The US have invade Iraq and Afghanistan and have intervened in Libya and many other countries. They were behind the "revolution" which toppled the legitimate Ukrainian government which then went on to victimize the 40 percent of the Ukrainian population who's native language is Russian, provoking an uprising. The US saw in this an opportunity to escalate their conflict with Russia - a policy which they had been following for some time, and they encouraged the Ukrainian government to crack down hard instead of compromising. Putin's (indirect) support of the rebels and the events in the Crimea - an area populated by Russians and Tartarians and a part of Russia until Chruchtchov's strange deal - was just a reaction to that.
posted on 30/12/16
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power -I'm a .....¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (U8398)
posted 1 minute ago
The same can be said of Christianity, how many have actually been killed because of the teaching of Christ? I would say zero, because if they followed the teaching of Christ they wouldn't be killing in the name of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Christ have anything to say about the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So a true Christian should never vote for or follow anyone who advocates the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is certainly an arguement for that. Most Christians are I know are pro life so would not want to back anyone who advocates abortion.
So who would you choose if you had a choice of Trump who wants the death penalty for convicted criminals or Hilary who supports full term abortion for any reason (the claims that it is for the health of the mother were weak and a claim by the mother that their mental health was suffering was deemed sufficent evicence to allow an abortion at any time up to birth according to what she has said in the past, meaning they just have to lie).
Personally I find the thought of abortion as murder of unborn children who would otherwise survive, so Trump is easily the lesser of 2 evils on that one.
posted on 30/12/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/12/16
Like I said being good is subjective.
I was born here but my background is Moroccan and 95% of my extended family live in that country.
There is now only one country standing in the way of Libya (ravaged by extremists) and Morocco and that's Algeria.
People who put on a British/American military uniform thought they were doing good work by demolishing almost every country between Libya and Iraq and now it's on the door step of my family.
Not only that but if I don't call these men heroes I'm considered to be some kind of extremist by some people.
For me all of that is pure evil, the Islamic rules of engagement tell me that I can't hurt anybody in battle except men of fighting age who are also trying to kill me.
That speaks to me morally and it also allows me to call out those who pretend to be moral but kill innocent civilians.
Collateral damage doesn't exist. Going into a war knowing that innocent people will die isn't honourable it's morally bankrupt.
Others disagree and say it has to happen and then call people who voluntarily do the killing heroes.
So it doesn't really matter if you are born innocent the human brain will be corrupted.
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
...........................................
Apart from maybe some disagreements with the last paragraph I really like this post
posted on 30/12/16
Kung Fu, what do you think about the regime in Morocco?
posted on 30/12/16
The Ukrainians toppled their own government.
-----------------------------------
No, a mob in Kiev did it, aided and abetted by Western governments, agencies and organizations. The Russian speaking part of the population in the Eastern provinces did not agree with the toppling of the legitimate government.
posted on 30/12/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/12/16
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power -I'm a .....¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (U8398)
posted 1 minute ago
The same can be said of Christianity, how many have actually been killed because of the teaching of Christ? I would say zero, because if they followed the teaching of Christ they wouldn't be killing in the name of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Christ have anything to say about the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So a true Christian should never vote for or follow anyone who advocates the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is certainly an arguement for that. Most Christians are I know are pro life so would not want to back anyone who advocates abortion.
So who would you choose if you had a choice of Trump who wants the death penalty for convicted criminals or Hilary who supports full term abortion for any reason (the claims that it is for the health of the mother were weak and a claim by the mother that their mental health was suffering was deemed sufficent evicence to allow an abortion at any time up to birth according to what she has said in the past, meaning they just have to lie).
Personally I find the thought of abortion as murder of unborn children who would otherwise survive, so Trump is easily the lesser of 2 evils on that one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Survive what? Would you favour the abortion of an unborn child who will probably die at birth? Or as an infant (first 24 months)? Or before the age of 5? Or a month before a term pregnancy?
posted on 31/12/16
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tbh they are all books written by people. Why should people take them so seriously? Some people people kill for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religious books contain a set of values the followers hold dear.
Constitutions hold values that nationalists hold dear.
Both sets of followers kill, it isn't exclusive to religion.
More people have been killed in the name of democracy in recent years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really need a book to tell you how to live your life?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good question.
It depends what's in the book and what a set of rules represent.
Being good is subjective. Bin Laden thought he was being good as did George Bush.
People think it's good to join the EDL and keep Britain white and others think it's good to not allow women to drive or go to school.
For me personally the Quran provides me with a moral anchor but don't confuse that with not having your own brain.
I studied my beliefs and approached it with a critical mind, I questioned why people like Bin Laden did the thing he did whilst calling him self a Muslim, I questioned why the Saudi's treat women the way they do and I questioned why honour killings and FGM existed and a lot more.
I found satisfying answers which is why I get frustrated when people assume that a religion says something without knowledge when I and many others have studied and continue to study the depth of religion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are born innocent and we are also given genes to protect our species. We are moral people by and large. No book changes that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, the species protects the gene, but
posted on 31/12/16
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Kung Fu, what do you think about the regime in Morocco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The King?
He's just alright, he's progressed the country since his dad died but that wasn't hard to do. As a Muslim I don't think I agree with the way all Muslim leaders go about their business.
Instead of unifying the Islamic world they are more concerned about their thrones.
Having said that most of the Islamic world (excluding Morocco) had leaders thrust upon them by Europe or America which is why I attribute most of the blame for the ME being the way it is on Western governments.
It's important that you notice I said governments and not people.
Heck, these countries in the ME didn't even exist until after the 2nd world war. Borders drawn by our generals. Nationalism acted as a cancer to the region, no longer brothers but competitors.
posted on 31/12/16
I dislike religion and nationalism equally and find them both dangerous. I do think a lot of the latter wouldn't exist if the former didn't though.
posted on 31/12/16
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 8 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi - Got_Nameback (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nationalism has a pretty poor, correction, universally terrible record of securing global stability Robb.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So has cimmunism, just look at the history of Russia (Stalin in particular), China, North Korea and others. Their influence on world peace and human rights is very poor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who is advocating communism?
All I'm doing is pointing out that nationalist politics is not a choice that feeds localised or global international stability.
posted on 31/12/16
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Kung Fu, what do you think about the regime in Morocco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The King?
He's just alright, he's progressed the country since his dad died but that wasn't hard to do. As a Muslim I don't think I agree with the way all Muslim leaders go about their business.
Instead of unifying the Islamic world they are more concerned about their thrones.
Having said that most of the Islamic world (excluding Morocco) had leaders thrust upon them by Europe or America which is why I attribute most of the blame for the ME being the way it is on Western governments.
It's important that you notice I said governments and not people.
Heck, these countries in the ME didn't even exist until after the 2nd world war. Borders drawn by our generals. Nationalism acted as a cancer to the region, no longer brothers but competitors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was asking on the back of your comments about the West's involvement, remembering the questionable human rights record, treatment of dissenting journalists, Amnesty reports of widespread torture, the contentious occupation and colonisation of the Western Sahara...
I don't know, tbh mate, I think that while there's much to be questioned when it comes to Western nations' foreign policies (I'm aware that Morocco itself has received a lot of Western support), the regimes in many Arab nations still have a lot to answer for.
As for the borders, I read an interesting article recently where it says that the real problem isn't the borders. Take a look; it makes some interesting and valid points:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/stop-blaming-colonial-borders-for-the-middle-easts-problems/279561/
(I recommend reading through to the end, as it doesn't absolve colonial powers of responsibility, but it give an alternative and, imo, more convincing explanation).
I checked out Syria as an example and went through the Wikipedia entries for each of the periods in Syrian history. Those straight lines on the map were by no means an innovation introduced by European powers.
The variation in the borders of what has roughly been considered Syria down the centuries is huge.
posted on 31/12/16
Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
I agree with all that you said about the Moroccan authorities which is why I have never tried to protect them or talked highly of them.
One thing you missed off the list though, the Moroccan authorities also used to toucher people for the CIA and MI6 when extraordinary rendition was still fashionable.
Probably still is actually.
I read the article, very interesting but I never attributed all of the blame to new borders although I still think they play a part.
Selecting psychopaths to look after these new nations contributed to the demise of the middle-east.
Getting bored of these psychopaths, funding bloody military coups and replacing the old psychopaths with new psychopaths also contributed to the demise of the Middle-East.
Invading the Middle-East and killing millions because your new psychopaths wont play ball anymore contributed even more to the demise of the Middle-East.
People were furious in this country that the rest of Europe had a tiny say in the way in which this country is run. Imagine how the Arabs feel about never calling the shots on any legislations their hand picked psychopaths force upon them.
Imagine being told that you are a terrorist for resisting as well, like the Palestinians have been labeled time and time again.
We have people on this thread that actually think it was ok for the Palestinians not to be able to determine whether they wanted to hand over their land or not.
They don't find the fact that they were forced to leave or killed morally disturbing.
They actually find the fact that Palestinians didn't want a new nation built on their homes and property as some kind of anti semitic slur.
All common sense goes out of the window when people think about the Middle-East.
This isn't a rant at you #justsayin
posted on 31/12/16
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 8 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tbh they are all books written by people. Why should people take them so seriously? Some people people kill for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religious books contain a set of values the followers hold dear.
Constitutions hold values that nationalists hold dear.
Both sets of followers kill, it isn't exclusive to religion.
More people have been killed in the name of democracy in recent years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really need a book to tell you how to live your life?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good question.
It depends what's in the book and what a set of rules represent.
Being good is subjective. Bin Laden thought he was being good as did George Bush.
People think it's good to join the EDL and keep Britain white and others think it's good to not allow women to drive or go to school.
For me personally the Quran provides me with a moral anchor but don't confuse that with not having your own brain.
I studied my beliefs and approached it with a critical mind, I questioned why people like Bin Laden did the thing he did whilst calling him self a Muslim, I questioned why the Saudi's treat women the way they do and I questioned why honour killings and FGM existed and a lot more.
I found satisfying answers which is why I get frustrated when people assume that a religion says something without knowledge when I and many others have studied and continue to study the depth of religion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are born innocent and we are also given genes to protect our species. We are moral people by and large. No book changes that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said being good is subjective.
I was born here but my background is Moroccan and 95% of my extended family live in that country.
There is now only one country standing in the way of Libya (ravaged by extremists) and Morocco and that's Algeria.
People who put on a British/American military uniform thought they were doing good work by demolishing almost every country between Libya and Iraq and now it's on the door step of my family.
Not only that but if I don't call these men heroes I'm considered to be some kind of extremist by some people.
For me all of that is pure evil, the Islamic rules of engagement tell me that I can't hurt anybody in battle except men of fighting age who are also trying to kill me.
That speaks to me morally and it also allows me to call out those who pretend to be moral but kill innocent civilians.
Collateral damage doesn't exist. Going into a war knowing that innocent people will die isn't honourable it's morally bankrupt.
Others disagree and say it has to happen and then call people who voluntarily do the killing heroes.
So it doesn't really matter if you are born innocent the human brain will be corrupted.
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rules of engagement I followed in Bosnia were the same. Don't shoot until fired upon, or if your life is in eminent danger. It's not just an Islamic morality thing.
10.6 % of the imprisoned population in the Netherlands, where I am from, is Moroccan, which is the largest group of one foreign nationality. I guess they didn't follow the rules of my country. But Moroccans only count for 2.2% of our population. They are a society in the Netherlands who seemingly not really want to or able to integrate. My sister and her family were terrorised by a group of Moroccan kids as wrte other people in the neighborhood. At some point they had to put camera's up as bricks came flying through my sister's windows. My nephews were terrified. People sold their houses at a loss and left. It went all the way up to the government. Police couldn't do jack sheite. Moroccan parents don't correct their children. It's a facking mess. Later one of the cants died in a police chase. His death was much appreciated I can tell you that much.
All this fuels right wing sentiments in Holland. As it does in all countries.
posted on 31/12/16
comment by Dude Bro (U1250)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 8 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 2 minutes ago
Tbh they are all books written by people. Why should people take them so seriously? Some people people kill for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religious books contain a set of values the followers hold dear.
Constitutions hold values that nationalists hold dear.
Both sets of followers kill, it isn't exclusive to religion.
More people have been killed in the name of democracy in recent years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you really need a book to tell you how to live your life?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a good question.
It depends what's in the book and what a set of rules represent.
Being good is subjective. Bin Laden thought he was being good as did George Bush.
People think it's good to join the EDL and keep Britain white and others think it's good to not allow women to drive or go to school.
For me personally the Quran provides me with a moral anchor but don't confuse that with not having your own brain.
I studied my beliefs and approached it with a critical mind, I questioned why people like Bin Laden did the thing he did whilst calling him self a Muslim, I questioned why the Saudi's treat women the way they do and I questioned why honour killings and FGM existed and a lot more.
I found satisfying answers which is why I get frustrated when people assume that a religion says something without knowledge when I and many others have studied and continue to study the depth of religion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are born innocent and we are also given genes to protect our species. We are moral people by and large. No book changes that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said being good is subjective.
I was born here but my background is Moroccan and 95% of my extended family live in that country.
There is now only one country standing in the way of Libya (ravaged by extremists) and Morocco and that's Algeria.
People who put on a British/American military uniform thought they were doing good work by demolishing almost every country between Libya and Iraq and now it's on the door step of my family.
Not only that but if I don't call these men heroes I'm considered to be some kind of extremist by some people.
For me all of that is pure evil, the Islamic rules of engagement tell me that I can't hurt anybody in battle except men of fighting age who are also trying to kill me.
That speaks to me morally and it also allows me to call out those who pretend to be moral but kill innocent civilians.
Collateral damage doesn't exist. Going into a war knowing that innocent people will die isn't honourable it's morally bankrupt.
Others disagree and say it has to happen and then call people who voluntarily do the killing heroes.
So it doesn't really matter if you are born innocent the human brain will be corrupted.
This is one of the reasons why I don't have faith in people, or rules created by men. Although I will abide by them in which ever country I chose to live in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The rules of engagement I followed in Bosnia were the same. Don't shoot until fired upon, or if your life is in eminent danger. It's not just an Islamic morality thing.
10.6 % of the imprisoned population in the Netherlands, where I am from, is Moroccan, which is the largest group of one foreign nationality. I guess they didn't follow the rules of my country. But Moroccans only count for 2.2% of our population. They are a society in the Netherlands who seemingly not really want to or able to integrate. My sister and her family were terrorised by a group of Moroccan kids as wrte other people in the neighborhood. At some point they had to put camera's up as bricks came flying through my sister's windows. My nephews were terrified. People sold their houses at a loss and left. It went all the way up to the government. Police couldn't do jack sheite. Moroccan parents don't correct their children. It's a facking mess. Later one of the cants died in a police chase. His death was much appreciated I can tell you that much.
All this fuels right wing sentiments in Holland. As it does in all countries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair points, dude.
You can relate to why European's feel mass movement of people into europe is not simply positive or welcome.
It is all about numbers too, as we have to be humane and do the right thing, morally.
Balance is vital.
posted on 31/12/16
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 4 hours, 29 minutes ago
This isn't a rant at you #justsayin
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I get that. We agree on a lot of issues.
I just found that border article interesting enough to point it out.
The issue of democracy is a funny one. The West only wants elected governments if they don't feel said gov's are a threat to their interests. Look at how long Mursi lasted.
Morocco in with Western secret services...I didn't leave it out, it was just a quick top-of-the-head list, not intended to be exhaustive. I've come to assume this sort of complicity is more or less par for the course for countries without a strong accountability system.
What beats me is how we still tolerate this kind of behaviour from our own secret services in our home societies.
None of this is to relieve the Arab world's leaders of their own responsibility, but you are right: they are by and large a bunch of murderous, corrupt psychopaths installed or maintained with Western support. People prefer to bury their heads in the sand on these and many other foreign policy and commercial issues and their relation to our standard of living in the West.
posted on 31/12/16
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 9 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power -I'm a .....¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (U8398)
posted 1 minute ago
The same can be said of Christianity, how many have actually been killed because of the teaching of Christ? I would say zero, because if they followed the teaching of Christ they wouldn't be killing in the name of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Christ have anything to say about the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So a true Christian should never vote for or follow anyone who advocates the death penalty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is certainly an arguement for that. Most Christians are I know are pro life so would not want to back anyone who advocates abortion.
So who would you choose if you had a choice of Trump who wants the death penalty for convicted criminals or Hilary who supports full term abortion for any reason (the claims that it is for the health of the mother were weak and a claim by the mother that their mental health was suffering was deemed sufficent evicence to allow an abortion at any time up to birth according to what she has said in the past, meaning they just have to lie).
Personally I find the thought of abortion as murder of unborn children who would otherwise survive, so Trump is easily the lesser of 2 evils on that one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Survive what? Would you favour the abortion of an unborn child who will probably die at birth? Or as an infant (first 24 months)? Or before the age of 5? Or a month before a term pregnancy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there is a risk to the mother's health I wouldmake a concession that they may choose what to do, there may also be other reasons it could be conceded such as rape victims. Other than that I see abortion as murder. Why should a child that will live be killed just because the mother cant take responsibility for their actions? I suggest you look at the process of abortion if you disagree, particularly late term abortion that Hilary Clinton has publicly stated she supports (and has been paid millions for doing so).
posted on 31/12/16
As for the cause of the problems in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and the rest of the world, I think ou are al wrong in your blaming religion, nationalism, etc.
I think it is purely down to greed.
Greed for power, greed for land, greed for riches.
What we see with most wars atm is that the sides are usually decided by religion or nationalism, but if you look at mankind you will see others as well. Gangs in inner cities and other criminals are an example of that on a smaller scale. religion and natinalism are just the most common excuse for this on a large scale atm.
posted on 31/12/16
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 10 minutes ago
If there is a risk to the mother's health I wouldmake a concession that they may choose what to do, there may also be other reasons it could be conceded such as rape victims. Other than that I see abortion as murder. Why should a child that will live be killed just because the mother cant take responsibility for their actions? I suggest you look at the process of abortion if you disagree, particularly late term abortion that Hilary Clinton has publicly stated she supports (and has been paid millions for doing so).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How late is late-term abortion? If it's at any point after which a foetus would be able to survive outside the uterus provided the appropriate medical care (what's that, around 6-7 months?) then it's also something I'd have issues with. However, this is definitely not a clear-cut issue everyone agrees upon. Establishing a position on the death penalty is far easier because it's far less ambiguous.
Notwithstanding, iag, something that grates me personally is that people only ever mention two options when it comes to voting. By the time we reach an adult age, we have by and large been brainwashed to believe we only have two choices when it comes to voting. That's rubbish. Especially if we need to decide on issues that morally matter to us so much. Imagine being in the biscuit aisle at the supermarket, 100 brands of bikkies on offer, but feeling you can only choose between two of them. Not only that, but the one you choose is the biscuit you're going to have to eat every day for the next four years.
posted on 31/12/16
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 11 minutes ago
As for the cause of the problems in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and the rest of the world, I think ou are al wrong in your blaming religion, nationalism, etc.
I think it is purely down to greed.
Greed for power, greed for land, greed for riches.
What we see with most wars atm is that the sides are usually decided by religion or nationalism, but if you look at mankind you will see others as well. Gangs in inner cities and other criminals are an example of that on a smaller scale. religion and natinalism are just the most common excuse for this on a large scale atm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A-greed. I was recently arguing on another thread that the true driver behind the immense majority of conflicts was the struggle for resources.
However, nationalism is to a certain extent a manifestation of greed, and an often very extreme one at that.
posted on 31/12/16
An interesting story about Islam is their time in Spain with some parallels to today.
A long period of harmony and happiness but ruined by internal fighting which ended up destroying the peace.
Would have loved to have visited Córdoba back in the 11th century. Probably as close to complete multi-religious harmony one can get
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