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Page 12 of 15

posted on 31/12/16

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 30 minutes ago
As for the cause of the problems in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and the rest of the world, I think ou are al wrong in your blaming religion, nationalism, etc.

I think it is purely down to greed.

Greed for power, greed for land, greed for riches.

What we see with most wars atm is that the sides are usually decided by religion or nationalism, but if you look at mankind you will see others as well. Gangs in inner cities and other criminals are an example of that on a smaller scale. religion and natinalism are just the most common excuse for this on a large scale atm.
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Money and man.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 10 minutes ago

If there is a risk to the mother's health I wouldmake a concession that they may choose what to do, there may also be other reasons it could be conceded such as rape victims. Other than that I see abortion as murder. Why should a child that will live be killed just because the mother cant take responsibility for their actions? I suggest you look at the process of abortion if you disagree, particularly late term abortion that Hilary Clinton has publicly stated she supports (and has been paid millions for doing so).
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How late is late-term abortion? If it's at any point after which a foetus would be able to survive outside the uterus provided the appropriate medical care (what's that, around 6-7 months?) then it's also something I'd have issues with. However, this is definitely not a clear-cut issue everyone agrees upon. Establishing a position on the death penalty is far easier because it's far less ambiguous.

Notwithstanding, iag, something that grates me personally is that people only ever mention two options when it comes to voting. By the time we reach an adult age, we have by and large been brainwashed to believe we only have two choices when it comes to voting. That's rubbish. Especially if we need to decide on issues that morally matter to us so much. Imagine being in the biscuit aisle at the supermarket, 100 brands of bikkies on offer, but feeling you can only choose between two of them. Not only that, but the one you choose is the biscuit you're going to have to eat every day for the next four years.

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Late term abortion (as supported by Hilary Clinton and there is video evidence of this is you can be bothered to search for it) is any time up to birth. I believe this would even include after contractions have started. It involves cutting the baby limb from limb while alive and removing the it part by part. Vivisection.

Often the same people protest about this sort of thing happening to animals but than want it for unborn babies.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by Dude Bro (U1250)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago

10.6 % of the imprisoned population in the Netherlands, where I am from, is Moroccan, which is the largest group of one foreign nationality. I guess they didn't follow the rules of my country. But Moroccans only count for 2.2% of our population. They are a society in the Netherlands who seemingly not really want to or able to integrate. My sister and her family were terrorised by a group of Moroccan kids as wrte other people in the neighborhood. At some point they had to put camera's up as bricks came flying through my sister's windows. My nephews were terrified. People sold their houses at a loss and left. It went all the way up to the government. Police couldn't do jack sheite. Moroccan parents don't correct their children. It's a facking mess. Later one of the cants died in a police chase. His death was much appreciated I can tell you that much.

All this fuels right wing sentiments in Holland. As it does in all countries.
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It's not the only thing that fuels this sentiment, though.

Media plays a huge role. A number of years ago in Spain, the government banned media from reporting individual nationalities in crime reporting. The next government reversed the ban.

It was only after that reversal that I became fully aware of how the media, some worse than others but generally across the political spectrum, use nationality in crime reporting.

In the case of the perpetrator being a foreign national, you will very often get this mentioned in the title itself, in the sub-heading or, at the very latest, in the opening paragraph. It can then be repeated several times throughout the article.

In the case of a Spanish national, very often it will not be mentioned at all in the article, and it is rarely mentioned in the title or opening sections.

The most common reference when the perpetrator is Spanish is to their province or city of birth. A man from León, from Madrid or Ponferrada, but never from Bogotá, Larache, Craiova.

If it's a second-generation immigrant, this also tends to be pointed out, very often as the only reference (a man of Guinean descent) without mentioning the "Spanish national" part.

I have even read extreme cases where it's only the nationality of the VICTIM is mentioned, when said victim is foreign.



As a result, nationality in crime reporting generally reads something like Colombian-Colombian-Colombian, Albanian-Albanian-Albanian, Nigerian-Nigerian-Nigerian, you get the gist.

Also, nationality or ethnicity are just an easy way of singling people out, but what would other cross sectional analysis show? What percentages of (e.g.) dock workers, of unemployed, what percentage in certain neighbourhoods, of people who have diets rich in x, y, or z components, alcohol consumption. There are so many factors, but deeper analysis is required and it's far harder for hatemongers to single people out who others can point to on the street as the reasons for their woes.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 17 seconds ago

Late term abortion (as supported by Hilary Clinton and there is video evidence of this is you can be bothered to search for it) is any time up to birth. I believe this would even include after contractions have started. It involves cutting the baby limb from limb while alive and removing the it part by part. Vivisection.

Often the same people protest about this sort of thing happening to animals but than want it for unborn babies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If true, that's horrific.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 10 minutes ago

If there is a risk to the mother's health I wouldmake a concession that they may choose what to do, there may also be other reasons it could be conceded such as rape victims. Other than that I see abortion as murder. Why should a child that will live be killed just because the mother cant take responsibility for their actions? I suggest you look at the process of abortion if you disagree, particularly late term abortion that Hilary Clinton has publicly stated she supports (and has been paid millions for doing so).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How late is late-term abortion? If it's at any point after which a foetus would be able to survive outside the uterus provided the appropriate medical care (what's that, around 6-7 months?) then it's also something I'd have issues with. However, this is definitely not a clear-cut issue everyone agrees upon. Establishing a position on the death penalty is far easier because it's far less ambiguous.

Notwithstanding, iag, something that grates me personally is that people only ever mention two options when it comes to voting. By the time we reach an adult age, we have by and large been brainwashed to believe we only have two choices when it comes to voting. That's rubbish. Especially if we need to decide on issues that morally matter to us so much. Imagine being in the biscuit aisle at the supermarket, 100 brands of bikkies on offer, but feeling you can only choose between two of them. Not only that, but the one you choose is the biscuit you're going to have to eat every day for the next four years.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Late term abortion (as supported by Hilary Clinton and there is video evidence of this is you can be bothered to search for it) is any time up to birth. I believe this would even include after contractions have started. It involves cutting the baby limb from limb while alive and removing the it part by part. Vivisection.

Often the same people protest about this sort of thing happening to animals but than want it for unborn babies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In Northern Ireland, girls have to go to Liverpool to get an abortion.
I have always been more pro- life, and see many use abortion as a contraceptive.....shame on some feminists for pushing this so called right.
However, some in NI and Eire are refused abortions and girls lives are at risk.
Even in rape cases or if the unborn baby is very I'll, no a portion is allowed.
This has led to suicide.

As ever, commonsense needed.

posted on 31/12/16

It is true, it is horrific.

I know someone who campaigns for pro-life and anyone with a heart can soon be turned to pro-life once they understand what abortion involves. That is late term abortion, but even early term abortion often involved throwing living fetuses in the bin with their hearts still beating.

The main company in America that carries out abortions is called Planned Parenthood. They have history of allegations of cutting still beating hearts from babies to be sent for scientific research and stuff. There has been claim and counter claim regarding this but I've seen enough evidence to believe they did it.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 17 seconds ago

Late term abortion (as supported by Hilary Clinton and there is video evidence of this is you can be bothered to search for it) is any time up to birth. I believe this would even include after contractions have started. It involves cutting the baby limb from limb while alive and removing the it part by part. Vivisection.

Often the same people protest about this sort of thing happening to animals but than want it for unborn babies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If true, that's horrific.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One more reason I am glad Hilary lost...some States have abortion right up to forty weeks, which is vile, and not a human right, IMO.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 1 minute ago
It is true, it is horrific.

I know someone who campaigns for pro-life and anyone with a heart can soon be turned to pro-life once they understand what abortion involves. That is late term abortion, but even early term abortion often involved throwing living fetuses in the bin with their hearts still beating.

The main company in America that carries out abortions is called Planned Parenthood. They have history of allegations of cutting still beating hearts from babies to be sent for scientific research and stuff. There has been claim and counter claim regarding this but I've seen enough evidence to believe they did it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many potentially people have been butchered by abortionists.?

Badly named pro- choice......

posted on 31/12/16

comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 39 seconds ago

----------------------------------------------------------------------
In Northern Ireland, girls have to go to Liverpool to get an abortion.
I have always been more pro- life, and see many use abortion as a contraceptive.....shame on some feminists for pushing this so called right.
However, some in NI and Eire are refused abortions and girls lives are at risk.
Even in rape cases or if the unborn baby is very I'll, no a portion is allowed.
This has led to suicide.

As ever, commonsense needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said earlier, some concessions to allow it do need ot be allowed, but as you say it should never be a choice for contraception. Abortion should be a final resort and not a lifestyle choice. The two reasons I mentoned are a health risk to the mother and rape. Even poor health of the baby is questionable to me. Why should they be killed rather than have the chance to fight for their life?

I know people who've had multiple abortions and I have said to them (in a nicer way) that they are murderers. They tend to know it deep down anyway. A lot of people who have abortions end up needing counselling for that very reason.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 39 seconds ago

----------------------------------------------------------------------
In Northern Ireland, girls have to go to Liverpool to get an abortion.
I have always been more pro- life, and see many use abortion as a contraceptive.....shame on some feminists for pushing this so called right.
However, some in NI and Eire are refused abortions and girls lives are at risk.
Even in rape cases or if the unborn baby is very I'll, no a portion is allowed.
This has led to suicide.

As ever, commonsense needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said earlier, some concessions to allow it do need ot be allowed, but as you say it should never be a choice for contraception. Abortion should be a final resort and not a lifestyle choice. The two reasons I mentoned are a health risk to the mother and rape. Even poor health of the baby is questionable to me. Why should they be killed rather than have the chance to fight for their life?

I know people who've had multiple abortions and I have said to them (in a nicer way) that they are murderers. They tend to know it deep down anyway. A lot of people who have abortions end up needing counselling for that very reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think it's your place to call them murderers whether it be a 'nice' way or not. You say these girls need counsellling? Don't contribute to the problem.

I am pro-choice up to a point and maybe it's just the women I know, but none would even entertain the idea of a late term abortion so what the fack Hilary Clinton was thinking regarding that was cray

posted on 31/12/16

There is so much made up rubbish in this thread.

posted on 31/12/16

Note I did say "if true", as I find it hard to believe that anyone in their sound mind would agree to chopping a baby into bits at birth.

I think a distinction also needs to be made between "allegations" of cutting still beating hearts from babies and actual proven crimes. Anyone can make false accusations and, in this day and age, it's all too easy to disseminate such horrific accusations over the web, as we've recently see with fake news during the U.S. election campaign (on both sides).

posted on 31/12/16

Late term abortions meaning up to the point of birth being a case in point or the legal status of certain states.

This debate over the last couple of pages is all fake news.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 5 minutes ago
Late term abortions meaning up to the point of birth being a case in point or the legal status of certain states.

This debate over the last couple of pages is all fake news.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Which bits?

That Hilary backs it?

posted on 31/12/16

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
Late term abortions meaning up to the point of birth being a case in point or the legal status of certain states.

This debate over the last couple of pages is all fake news.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's crazy how gullible some people are.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by Kante's Dad-Heavy Jumbo (U20563)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
Late term abortions meaning up to the point of birth being a case in point or the legal status of certain states.

This debate over the last couple of pages is all fake news.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's crazy how gullible some people are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The likes of Iam Gooner hear Trump say it and take it as gospel.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
Late term abortions meaning up to the point of birth being a case in point or the legal status of certain states.

This debate over the last couple of pages is all fake news.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No its not.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2016/10/20/no-late-term-abortions-dont-rip-babies-out-of-wombs-but-they-are-needed/#1ba8292a1bc4

Even this pro-abortion site says it happens, although they play down how often it happens. It does happen though.

And as for Clinton supporting it, this one seems to be fairly objective

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441071/hillary-clinton-late-term-abortion-supporter

posted on 31/12/16

I've seen lots of stuff over the years on this and a friend is a pro-life activist. A lot of the stuff I have seen including video recordings of abortionists talking about what happens and the public would be horrified if they knew, graphic details of what happensin an abortion, etc I wouldnt post on here because it disturbs me too much to look at it.

Burying your head in the sand and saying its lies doesnt change the facts.

posted on 31/12/16

http://ijr.com/opinion/2016/10/261258-planned-parenthood-late-term-abortions-health/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/10/21/doctors-trump-wrong-late-abortions/92515324/

posted on 31/12/16

You seem to have gone quiet now I've posted something to back up my view.

posted on 31/12/16

https://www.youtube.com/user/centerformedprogress

Although these sones are a pro-life group with an agenda, the senior management at PLanned Parenthood are being filmed (I havent watched these now, but have seen a couple in the past. I hope they are the same ones). There is some debate on what these prove but still make interesting viewing.

posted on 31/12/16

I read the first article you posted and it disputes what you are saying so didn't bother with the rest.

Forbes is hardly a pro-abortion website either.

posted on 31/12/16

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago

A lot of people who have abortions end up needing counselling for that very reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that deciding to abort is a very tough decision, which is precisely why I would recommend more caution before someone judges somebody else for having an abortion, generally based on circumstances they have never had to endure themselves.

It is certainly not something that in the vast majority of cases is decided without a second thought, and I personally believe it's way ott to politely or impolitely imply that these would-be mothers are murderers and suggest that their intimate knowledge of this is the reason they need counselling.

In abortion, there is a degree of disagreement as regards at what point in a pregnancy it's still legitimate to abort. You yourself stated you think there ought to be exceptions (e.g. rape), so what would you call that if not murder? Is the foetus culpable, and does it therefore deserve death, or is it not really a life on the grounds of how it was conceived?

Considering there's a significant degree of contradiction even in this approach, it simply isn't right to lightly pass judgement based on some odd sort of moral, ethical or religious superiority.

My 2p at any rate.

posted on 31/12/16

IAG, sorry as I have to go out now. I'll read your reply/ies with interest as soon as I can though.

Not sure I'll be able to get back on the site today, so I'd just like to wish everyone on ja a very Happy New Year! diva>

I actually like the political debate on here. It might not always be of the highest stature, but it offers a good opportunity for a decent representation of people from different walks of life, political views, religious beliefs, ethnic and national backgrounds, etc. to exchange ideas and perspectives, and even if we most often end in disagreement, in a way helps brings people with wildly opposing views a bit closer to understanding the other.

HNY one and all!

posted on 31/12/16

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
There is so much made up rubbish in this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to political debate, ja606 style.

Rather I should say, welcome to modern political debate.

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