comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they applauded the miner. Sounds like a sacrificial ceremony, where a member of the working class had offered himself up to make them all richer.
I'm sure everything you have said would look very nice on a Tory party webpage or leaflet. Doesn't in anyway tell the whole truth. Their core ideology involves privatising everything they can get their hands on. They have run down the NHS and systematically destroyed the countries infrastructure by contracting everything out they can to incompetent businesses, which they then subsidise through tax payers money. They were helped along the way by the Blair administration. Blair himself is just a Tory who put a red rosette on.
The Tories will push a neoliberalist agenda, which is quite amusing when the Brexit vote was a protest against a neoliberalist block. They will all wonder why nothing changes too.
Your final comments sum up your ignorance though. Just because someone has money, it doesn't mean they cannot hold left of centre political values. In the same way that being poor does not mean you cannot lean more to the right. Obviously it can only work one way in your mind though.
comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conservatives believe in freedom? Give me a break
As for Conservatives not agreeing in borrowing, I think you will find they always have. They just are not honest about. The fact is that the Conservative party have borrowed more than the Labour party, and have always done.
Here have a look at the date between the two parties:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/
Also look at the libertarian small government states, and their dire amount of public debt. Singapore and the US are prime examples of laissez faire economics, and how terrible they can be at creating debt. Compare that to Denmark or Finland, which are two high tax, large government countries, which have tiny government debt in comparison.
I have lived in both Finland and a little bit in Denmark. Their taxes are high, but there way of life is certainly more free than it is over here.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
The Tories destroying every public service, and being investigated for electoral fraud. Honestly you would have to be a village idiot to vote them back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is precisely why they will win.
apart from the fact that EVERY vote is a conservative action - real change never manifests from a ballot box- the daily mail/express and sun would never allow it. Plus, of course, the BBC are too scared and/or lazy to challenge the tissue of lies that are about to be (re)launched.
the village idiots the great unwashed, the hoi polloi, the plebs etc., will lap it up
Christian People's Alliance.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they applauded the miner. Sounds like a sacrificial ceremony, where a member of the working class had offered himself up to make them all richer.
I'm sure everything you have said would look very nice on a Tory party webpage or leaflet. Doesn't in anyway tell the whole truth. Their core ideology involves privatising everything they can get their hands on. They have run down the NHS and systematically destroyed the countries infrastructure by contracting everything out they can to incompetent businesses, which they then subsidise through tax payers money. They were helped along the way by the Blair administration. Blair himself is just a Tory who put a red rosette on.
The Tories will push a neoliberalist agenda, which is quite amusing when the Brexit vote was a protest against a neoliberalist block. They will all wonder why nothing changes too.
Your final comments sum up your ignorance though. Just because someone has money, it doesn't mean they cannot hold left of centre political values. In the same way that being poor does not mean you cannot lean more to the right. Obviously it can only work one way in your mind though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good comment.
The core of what was libertarianism has really been hijacked by neoliberalism. What was libertarianism, and the belief in small government and free market, has now morphed into privatised services subsidised by tax.
For me this is the message which should be made by the opposition to the government. That under them, we will just continue wasting tax money in propping up the privatised services. Instead lets nationalise infrastructure which is failing, and only subsidies industries like green energy.
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can... Britain just failed its IQ Test. (U3979)
posted 7 hours, 29 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 11 minutes ago
21 people on this forum so far would like to continue driving people into food bank dependency, slash the hell out of public services, continue to deepen the NHS and social care crisis, continue to allow our government to support, arm and train Saudi Arabia's famine inducing war crimes in Yemen and... You get the idea.
Stupidity, ignorance or vested interests. Which? Only three possible reasons for voting Tory under any circumstances.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've read of your posts, we're politically not a million miles away from each other Berba, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Greens.
If I were voting, I'd be tempted by Corbyn's Labour, but would probably stick with the Greens given their priorities.
------------------------------
Politically I'd be a Green. Caroline Lucas is one of the most talented politicians around, always able to communicate ideas and issues very clearly, without sounding PR-trained and with rationally and careful recourse to evidence.
However, on purely strategic grounds, and in a first past the post system, I'll be voting Corbyn in June (there isn't much difference between his politics and the Greens as far as I can tell).
On an even playing field I'd vote for the Greens. The Tories have to be defeated though, and voting for them this time round won't help that cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree on the similarities between the policies of Corbyn's Labour and the Greens. They really aren't miles apart.
As I mentioned, the biggest difference for me is in priorities, which is why I'd sway to the Greens.
I wonder if Emre Can has read the Greens' policies on international relations (possibly holistically the best developed and most carefully considered of all the major parties', defence or economic development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what, I haven't. Do enlighten me.
I've just never heard Lucas mention any of it despite it being a cornerstone of politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fill your boots:
https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/ec.html
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 7 hours, 1 minute ago
Once Brexit is sorted, the LibDems will be my port of call in future. Their rabid EUphilia puts me off currently.
Oh, and I am not having Farron either - a God bothering Liberal is a contradiction in terms.
Mine is a marginal Labour/Tory seat, one of the closest in the last election.
Went UKIP last time - no chance of an MP getting in, but to keep a referendum there in the background.
Don't particularly like May, but Hobson's choice for me
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you swing from socially traditionalist and illiberal, isolationist, neoindustrialist, economically libertarian, small government UKIP to socially ultraprogressive, internationalist, ecologically concerned, economically centrist, big government Lib Dems?
They share absolutely nothing at all in common
And 'God bothering Liberal' a contradiction in terms? Shouldn't any right minded Christian be liberal (forgetting those nutters across the Atlantic)?
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 2 hours ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 7 hours, 1 minute ago
Once Brexit is sorted, the LibDems will be my port of call in future. Their rabid EUphilia puts me off currently.
Oh, and I am not having Farron either - a God bothering Liberal is a contradiction in terms.
Mine is a marginal Labour/Tory seat, one of the closest in the last election.
Went UKIP last time - no chance of an MP getting in, but to keep a referendum there in the background.
Don't particularly like May, but Hobson's choice for me
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you swing from socially traditionalist and illiberal, isolationist, neoindustrialist, economically libertarian, small government UKIP to socially ultraprogressive, internationalist, ecologically concerned, economically centrist, big government Lib Dems?
They share absolutely nothing at all in common
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My vote for UKIP had absolutely nothing to do with their manifesto . It was a wasted vote in terms of governing, as they had virtually zero chance of winning my seat.
My vote was to give them a bigger share of the popular vote, to keep the referendum alive. I thought (wrongly as it turned out) that there would be another coalition, and that would be used as an excuse to not have one based on the Tory pledge, as happened in 2010.
I feel my natural home is with the Liberal wing of the LidDems, but I have big stumbling blocks to overcome before they get my vote.
I was tempted by Clegg in 2015 based on what he had to say, but his rampant Europhilia was too off-putting. As it is in the party in general. Not very democratic to deny the public a vote and then oppose what they voted for. When Brexit happens that will be gone though.
Farron though . How can he be leader of a Liberal party when he abstained on the gay marriage vote, and refused to say if he thinks gay secks is a sin only this week. Laughable
comment by Marjorie Keek (U3522)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
And 'God bothering Liberal' a contradiction in terms? Shouldn't any right minded Christian be liberal (forgetting those nutters across the Atlantic)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A follower of the ways of Jesus Christ (if he even existed) would be a Liberal, yes.
Christian Religions that have a pretence of being devoted to Christ are certainly not Liberal. He would be ashamed of their bigotry
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
The Tories destroying every public service, and being investigated for electoral fraud. Honestly you would have to be a village idiot to vote them back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So who's the credible alternative?
The RA sympathiser McDonnell, their useless idiot Corbyn, and the racist Abbott.
Is it any surprise they are off-putting to their core support
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 8 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conservatives believe in freedom? Give me a break
As for Conservatives not agreeing in borrowing, I think you will find they always have. They just are not honest about. The fact is that the Conservative party have borrowed more than the Labour party, and have always done.
Here have a look at the date between the two parties:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/
Also look at the libertarian small government states, and their dire amount of public debt. Singapore and the US are prime examples of laissez faire economics, and how terrible they can be at creating debt. Compare that to Denmark or Finland, which are two high tax, large government countries, which have tiny government debt in comparison.
I have lived in both Finland and a little bit in Denmark. Their taxes are high, but there way of life is certainly more free than it is over here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post. I'm always wary of suggesting one type of governance is always better than another, but I certainly prefer the system they have here in Denmark to the consistently shrinking state back in Britain. It goes beyond what a poster above said about cutting taxes meaning you have more money in your pocket (which, while true in the short term is not necessarily the case in medium or long-term scenarios when macroeconomic effects come into play). It's about the overall quality of life that comes about as a result, and again it's a gain that one might not feel immediately. As the investment in the infrastructure is made, though, and high-quality, further education is available for free (which means the whole workforce is highly skilled) as well as an effective, organised health system. On top of that, they consistently run budget surpluses at present and - along with the rest of the nordic, high-tax, big state countries - have extremely high standards of living and world-leading economies in per capita terms. Plus they're incredibly clean, safe and big on renewable energy. I'm pretty tempted to move here full-time: at least I could see a much better future for my kids instead of going through a woeful school system, racking up £50k of debt at uni an then work 8-7 for the next decade of their lives they can go to world leading schools, head off to uni (which you receive a monthly grant to do), get a masters and get a job in a culture where working overtime and neglecting your work-life balance is disliked by employers.
As for the Conservatives being solid on the economy bceause of their platitudes and austerity: no. Very few academic economists support the idea that it's beneficial to press ahead with it - not to mention the fact that they're artificially shrinking the deficit (while still having created more new government debt since 2010 than every Labour government in history combined) through one-off privatisations of anything they can sell. Research the concept of fiscal multipliers for anyone who follows the "living within our means" platitude as if a country's economy is somehow comparable to a househould budget, and perhaps then you'll get an inkling as to why this deep austerity has consistently failed to bring about the results that have been promised in each budget.
I don't subscribe to the idea that the Tories believe their austerity is damaging but push ahead anyway to transfer wealth upwards. I do think, though, that they're shrinking the state as their primary goal and doing so under pretence of deficit fetishism - Simon Wren-Lewis on Mainly Macro regularly writes about this sort of thing. It also concerns me how much power some of their backers (and Murdoch) wield.
I also don't buy the "no alternative" spiel. Corbyn isn't perfect, of course, and some of his policies concern me - particularly his failure to create an advisory group of economists which had been promised. He's not a great strategist or speaker. However, I agree with lots of his values, I think he's a man of honesty, integrity and principle and I still find his approach - in PMQs he often comes across as a grow-up in a room of school children - a refreshing change. I liked his more truthful, nuanced discussion in the referendum (during which he attended more rallies and events than Cameron, Osborne and the fence-sitting May put together) rather than the lies emanating from other leaders. He probably won't win the election but I'd rather have him than the snake currently governing us. Plus his more co-operative attitude would almost certainly be better for making a deal with the EU than May's feeble attempts to come across as another kind of iron lady.
If the General Election was run purely on policies, it should be the Tories that are all but wiped out. But we all know it will be run on which media or newspaper can bad mouth Corbyn the most. It is such a joke, that for the first time in my life I shall not be voting. Total waste of time, when the media are so biased against one of the Leaders. The whole Election will be farcical, just as Brexit was. Personality politics is taking the country downhill rapidly.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
If the General Election was run purely on policies, it should be the Tories that are all but wiped out. But we all know it will be run on which media or newspaper can bad mouth Corbyn the most. It is such a joke, that for the first time in my life I shall not be voting. Total waste of time, when the media are so biased against one of the Leaders. The whole Election will be farcical, just as Brexit was. Personality politics is taking the country downhill rapidly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not voting is never the answer! If the shambles of the media stop you voting against their candidate, that's a win for them.
Not voting is never the answer! If the shambles of the media stop you voting against their candidate, that's a win for them.
--
But wait! The tories will allow their good mate, the scuumbag Murdoch to own sky to add to his domination in every other area of the media. And he'll do then a favour in the process (it's him that generally decides anyway).
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Bestie (U1113)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
If the General Election was run purely on policies, it should be the Tories that are all but wiped out. But we all know it will be run on which media or newspaper can bad mouth Corbyn the most. It is such a joke, that for the first time in my life I shall not be voting. Total waste of time, when the media are so biased against one of the Leaders. The whole Election will be farcical, just as Brexit was. Personality politics is taking the country downhill rapidly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not voting is never the answer! If the shambles of the media stop you voting against their candidate, that's a win for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst in general I would agree with you 100 per cent. Politics now has been reduced to such a gutter level, and where you have an electorate in general that are spoonfed constant lies, and they actually follow the rubbish spouted like sheep, I really do not want to be part of a system that is lacking in any kind of decent way forward that might actually benefit us all rather than a privileged few. It is like Turkeys voting for Christmas with the current set-up of Right Wing Media controlling the minds of the Electorate.
I prefer to stand aside, and watch from the sidelines as everything from Healthcare to Pensions starts to unravel around me, and the perpetrators garner even more votes.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Galvation. (U10415)
posted 40 seconds ago
A colleague of mine is a single mother with chronic asthma and other chest problems, and as such is always at the doctors or the hospital.
She also cares for her elderly mother with no help from anyone...well apart from her daughter who helps her too.
She is paid just above minimum wage (but lower than the £10 Labour have mentioned) and is voting Tory because she hates Corbyn...and Sturgeon for wanting outShe voted OUT btw...she's unashamedly xenophobic (at best)..oh and Teresa May is a strong woman apparently.
I often come back to lunch and see the Daily Mail website is up on her pc...
I want to tell her she should just punch herself in the face repeatedly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep I know a bloke who's a minimum wage shift worker in the NHS who complains about how it's run and his zero hour contract, and is a staunch Tory. Some people really must like complaining!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Bestie (U1113)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Galvation. (U10415)
posted 40 seconds ago
A colleague of mine is a single mother with chronic asthma and other chest problems, and as such is always at the doctors or the hospital.
She also cares for her elderly mother with no help from anyone...well apart from her daughter who helps her too.
She is paid just above minimum wage (but lower than the £10 Labour have mentioned) and is voting Tory because she hates Corbyn...and Sturgeon for wanting outShe voted OUT btw...she's unashamedly xenophobic (at best)..oh and Teresa May is a strong woman apparently.
I often come back to lunch and see the Daily Mail website is up on her pc...
I want to tell her she should just punch herself in the face repeatedly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep I know a bloke who's a minimum wage shift worker in the NHS who complains about how it's run and his zero hour contract, and is a staunch Tory. Some people really must like complaining!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are just thick
comment by Galvation. (U10415)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://twitter.com/sanglesey/status/854580175530594305
The front pages have already called anyone who dare oppose as 'saboteurs'
And in this one...
https://twitter.com/SunApology/status/854600099103682560/photo/1
'Rebels'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the comments on that first link brought up the sweetest little fact about the election date:
The 8th of June is the day that 1984 was first published.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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JA606 GE Opinion Poll
Page 8 of 11
7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
posted on 18/4/17
comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they applauded the miner. Sounds like a sacrificial ceremony, where a member of the working class had offered himself up to make them all richer.
I'm sure everything you have said would look very nice on a Tory party webpage or leaflet. Doesn't in anyway tell the whole truth. Their core ideology involves privatising everything they can get their hands on. They have run down the NHS and systematically destroyed the countries infrastructure by contracting everything out they can to incompetent businesses, which they then subsidise through tax payers money. They were helped along the way by the Blair administration. Blair himself is just a Tory who put a red rosette on.
The Tories will push a neoliberalist agenda, which is quite amusing when the Brexit vote was a protest against a neoliberalist block. They will all wonder why nothing changes too.
Your final comments sum up your ignorance though. Just because someone has money, it doesn't mean they cannot hold left of centre political values. In the same way that being poor does not mean you cannot lean more to the right. Obviously it can only work one way in your mind though.
posted on 18/4/17
comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conservatives believe in freedom? Give me a break
As for Conservatives not agreeing in borrowing, I think you will find they always have. They just are not honest about. The fact is that the Conservative party have borrowed more than the Labour party, and have always done.
Here have a look at the date between the two parties:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/
Also look at the libertarian small government states, and their dire amount of public debt. Singapore and the US are prime examples of laissez faire economics, and how terrible they can be at creating debt. Compare that to Denmark or Finland, which are two high tax, large government countries, which have tiny government debt in comparison.
I have lived in both Finland and a little bit in Denmark. Their taxes are high, but there way of life is certainly more free than it is over here.
posted on 18/4/17
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
The Tories destroying every public service, and being investigated for electoral fraud. Honestly you would have to be a village idiot to vote them back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is precisely why they will win.
apart from the fact that EVERY vote is a conservative action - real change never manifests from a ballot box- the daily mail/express and sun would never allow it. Plus, of course, the BBC are too scared and/or lazy to challenge the tissue of lies that are about to be (re)launched.
the village idiots the great unwashed, the hoi polloi, the plebs etc., will lap it up
posted on 18/4/17
Christian People's Alliance.
posted on 18/4/17
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they applauded the miner. Sounds like a sacrificial ceremony, where a member of the working class had offered himself up to make them all richer.
I'm sure everything you have said would look very nice on a Tory party webpage or leaflet. Doesn't in anyway tell the whole truth. Their core ideology involves privatising everything they can get their hands on. They have run down the NHS and systematically destroyed the countries infrastructure by contracting everything out they can to incompetent businesses, which they then subsidise through tax payers money. They were helped along the way by the Blair administration. Blair himself is just a Tory who put a red rosette on.
The Tories will push a neoliberalist agenda, which is quite amusing when the Brexit vote was a protest against a neoliberalist block. They will all wonder why nothing changes too.
Your final comments sum up your ignorance though. Just because someone has money, it doesn't mean they cannot hold left of centre political values. In the same way that being poor does not mean you cannot lean more to the right. Obviously it can only work one way in your mind though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good comment.
The core of what was libertarianism has really been hijacked by neoliberalism. What was libertarianism, and the belief in small government and free market, has now morphed into privatised services subsidised by tax.
For me this is the message which should be made by the opposition to the government. That under them, we will just continue wasting tax money in propping up the privatised services. Instead lets nationalise infrastructure which is failing, and only subsidies industries like green energy.
posted on 19/4/17
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can... Britain just failed its IQ Test. (U3979)
posted 7 hours, 29 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 11 minutes ago
21 people on this forum so far would like to continue driving people into food bank dependency, slash the hell out of public services, continue to deepen the NHS and social care crisis, continue to allow our government to support, arm and train Saudi Arabia's famine inducing war crimes in Yemen and... You get the idea.
Stupidity, ignorance or vested interests. Which? Only three possible reasons for voting Tory under any circumstances.
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From what I've read of your posts, we're politically not a million miles away from each other Berba, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Greens.
If I were voting, I'd be tempted by Corbyn's Labour, but would probably stick with the Greens given their priorities.
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Politically I'd be a Green. Caroline Lucas is one of the most talented politicians around, always able to communicate ideas and issues very clearly, without sounding PR-trained and with rationally and careful recourse to evidence.
However, on purely strategic grounds, and in a first past the post system, I'll be voting Corbyn in June (there isn't much difference between his politics and the Greens as far as I can tell).
On an even playing field I'd vote for the Greens. The Tories have to be defeated though, and voting for them this time round won't help that cause.
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I agree on the similarities between the policies of Corbyn's Labour and the Greens. They really aren't miles apart.
As I mentioned, the biggest difference for me is in priorities, which is why I'd sway to the Greens.
I wonder if Emre Can has read the Greens' policies on international relations (possibly holistically the best developed and most carefully considered of all the major parties', defence or economic development?
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You know what, I haven't. Do enlighten me.
I've just never heard Lucas mention any of it despite it being a cornerstone of politics.
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Fill your boots:
https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/ec.html
posted on 19/4/17
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 7 hours, 1 minute ago
Once Brexit is sorted, the LibDems will be my port of call in future. Their rabid EUphilia puts me off currently.
Oh, and I am not having Farron either - a God bothering Liberal is a contradiction in terms.
Mine is a marginal Labour/Tory seat, one of the closest in the last election.
Went UKIP last time - no chance of an MP getting in, but to keep a referendum there in the background.
Don't particularly like May, but Hobson's choice for me
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How can you swing from socially traditionalist and illiberal, isolationist, neoindustrialist, economically libertarian, small government UKIP to socially ultraprogressive, internationalist, ecologically concerned, economically centrist, big government Lib Dems?
They share absolutely nothing at all in common
posted on 19/4/17
And 'God bothering Liberal' a contradiction in terms? Shouldn't any right minded Christian be liberal (forgetting those nutters across the Atlantic)?
posted on 19/4/17
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 2 hours ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 7 hours, 1 minute ago
Once Brexit is sorted, the LibDems will be my port of call in future. Their rabid EUphilia puts me off currently.
Oh, and I am not having Farron either - a God bothering Liberal is a contradiction in terms.
Mine is a marginal Labour/Tory seat, one of the closest in the last election.
Went UKIP last time - no chance of an MP getting in, but to keep a referendum there in the background.
Don't particularly like May, but Hobson's choice for me
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How can you swing from socially traditionalist and illiberal, isolationist, neoindustrialist, economically libertarian, small government UKIP to socially ultraprogressive, internationalist, ecologically concerned, economically centrist, big government Lib Dems?
They share absolutely nothing at all in common
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My vote for UKIP had absolutely nothing to do with their manifesto . It was a wasted vote in terms of governing, as they had virtually zero chance of winning my seat.
My vote was to give them a bigger share of the popular vote, to keep the referendum alive. I thought (wrongly as it turned out) that there would be another coalition, and that would be used as an excuse to not have one based on the Tory pledge, as happened in 2010.
I feel my natural home is with the Liberal wing of the LidDems, but I have big stumbling blocks to overcome before they get my vote.
I was tempted by Clegg in 2015 based on what he had to say, but his rampant Europhilia was too off-putting. As it is in the party in general. Not very democratic to deny the public a vote and then oppose what they voted for. When Brexit happens that will be gone though.
Farron though . How can he be leader of a Liberal party when he abstained on the gay marriage vote, and refused to say if he thinks gay secks is a sin only this week. Laughable
posted on 19/4/17
comment by Marjorie Keek (U3522)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
And 'God bothering Liberal' a contradiction in terms? Shouldn't any right minded Christian be liberal (forgetting those nutters across the Atlantic)?
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A follower of the ways of Jesus Christ (if he even existed) would be a Liberal, yes.
Christian Religions that have a pretence of being devoted to Christ are certainly not Liberal. He would be ashamed of their bigotry
posted on 19/4/17
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
The Tories destroying every public service, and being investigated for electoral fraud. Honestly you would have to be a village idiot to vote them back.
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So who's the credible alternative?
posted on 19/4/17
The RA sympathiser McDonnell, their useless idiot Corbyn, and the racist Abbott.
Is it any surprise they are off-putting to their core support
posted on 19/4/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/4/17
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 8 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Aaron ManyGuns (U20811)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 4 minutes ago
Simples - You vote Conservative or don't vote at all, maybe for your political ideology or maybe because there are no credible alternatives
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I will never vote for the Tory party as I fundamentally disagree with everything they stand for. There are alternatives, unless you believe all the spin from the media and the Blairites.
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Tamwolf, during the miner's strike of 1984/5 a miner stood up in front of the Conservative party conference that year, introduced his name and said"Working miner and a Conservative." The conference applauded him. Not all working people vote Labour and the Conservatives stand for freedom, not crippling high taxes and monetary restrictions like how much you can take abroad with you. They don't agree with high borrowing and having to pay back at a huge interest but rather we live within our means. The lower the taxes then the more money you have in your pocket.
Kinnock is a multi millionaire, Denis Healy sent his kids to fee paying schools and Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, VERY rich to get there. Labour?Are they really?
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Conservatives believe in freedom? Give me a break
As for Conservatives not agreeing in borrowing, I think you will find they always have. They just are not honest about. The fact is that the Conservative party have borrowed more than the Labour party, and have always done.
Here have a look at the date between the two parties:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/
Also look at the libertarian small government states, and their dire amount of public debt. Singapore and the US are prime examples of laissez faire economics, and how terrible they can be at creating debt. Compare that to Denmark or Finland, which are two high tax, large government countries, which have tiny government debt in comparison.
I have lived in both Finland and a little bit in Denmark. Their taxes are high, but there way of life is certainly more free than it is over here.
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Good post. I'm always wary of suggesting one type of governance is always better than another, but I certainly prefer the system they have here in Denmark to the consistently shrinking state back in Britain. It goes beyond what a poster above said about cutting taxes meaning you have more money in your pocket (which, while true in the short term is not necessarily the case in medium or long-term scenarios when macroeconomic effects come into play). It's about the overall quality of life that comes about as a result, and again it's a gain that one might not feel immediately. As the investment in the infrastructure is made, though, and high-quality, further education is available for free (which means the whole workforce is highly skilled) as well as an effective, organised health system. On top of that, they consistently run budget surpluses at present and - along with the rest of the nordic, high-tax, big state countries - have extremely high standards of living and world-leading economies in per capita terms. Plus they're incredibly clean, safe and big on renewable energy. I'm pretty tempted to move here full-time: at least I could see a much better future for my kids instead of going through a woeful school system, racking up £50k of debt at uni an then work 8-7 for the next decade of their lives they can go to world leading schools, head off to uni (which you receive a monthly grant to do), get a masters and get a job in a culture where working overtime and neglecting your work-life balance is disliked by employers.
As for the Conservatives being solid on the economy bceause of their platitudes and austerity: no. Very few academic economists support the idea that it's beneficial to press ahead with it - not to mention the fact that they're artificially shrinking the deficit (while still having created more new government debt since 2010 than every Labour government in history combined) through one-off privatisations of anything they can sell. Research the concept of fiscal multipliers for anyone who follows the "living within our means" platitude as if a country's economy is somehow comparable to a househould budget, and perhaps then you'll get an inkling as to why this deep austerity has consistently failed to bring about the results that have been promised in each budget.
I don't subscribe to the idea that the Tories believe their austerity is damaging but push ahead anyway to transfer wealth upwards. I do think, though, that they're shrinking the state as their primary goal and doing so under pretence of deficit fetishism - Simon Wren-Lewis on Mainly Macro regularly writes about this sort of thing. It also concerns me how much power some of their backers (and Murdoch) wield.
I also don't buy the "no alternative" spiel. Corbyn isn't perfect, of course, and some of his policies concern me - particularly his failure to create an advisory group of economists which had been promised. He's not a great strategist or speaker. However, I agree with lots of his values, I think he's a man of honesty, integrity and principle and I still find his approach - in PMQs he often comes across as a grow-up in a room of school children - a refreshing change. I liked his more truthful, nuanced discussion in the referendum (during which he attended more rallies and events than Cameron, Osborne and the fence-sitting May put together) rather than the lies emanating from other leaders. He probably won't win the election but I'd rather have him than the snake currently governing us. Plus his more co-operative attitude would almost certainly be better for making a deal with the EU than May's feeble attempts to come across as another kind of iron lady.
posted on 19/4/17
If the General Election was run purely on policies, it should be the Tories that are all but wiped out. But we all know it will be run on which media or newspaper can bad mouth Corbyn the most. It is such a joke, that for the first time in my life I shall not be voting. Total waste of time, when the media are so biased against one of the Leaders. The whole Election will be farcical, just as Brexit was. Personality politics is taking the country downhill rapidly.
posted on 19/4/17
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
If the General Election was run purely on policies, it should be the Tories that are all but wiped out. But we all know it will be run on which media or newspaper can bad mouth Corbyn the most. It is such a joke, that for the first time in my life I shall not be voting. Total waste of time, when the media are so biased against one of the Leaders. The whole Election will be farcical, just as Brexit was. Personality politics is taking the country downhill rapidly.
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Not voting is never the answer! If the shambles of the media stop you voting against their candidate, that's a win for them.
posted on 19/4/17
Not voting is never the answer! If the shambles of the media stop you voting against their candidate, that's a win for them.
--
But wait! The tories will allow their good mate, the scuumbag Murdoch to own sky to add to his domination in every other area of the media. And he'll do then a favour in the process (it's him that generally decides anyway).
posted on 19/4/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/4/17
comment by Bestie (U1113)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 15 seconds ago
If the General Election was run purely on policies, it should be the Tories that are all but wiped out. But we all know it will be run on which media or newspaper can bad mouth Corbyn the most. It is such a joke, that for the first time in my life I shall not be voting. Total waste of time, when the media are so biased against one of the Leaders. The whole Election will be farcical, just as Brexit was. Personality politics is taking the country downhill rapidly.
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Not voting is never the answer! If the shambles of the media stop you voting against their candidate, that's a win for them.
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Whilst in general I would agree with you 100 per cent. Politics now has been reduced to such a gutter level, and where you have an electorate in general that are spoonfed constant lies, and they actually follow the rubbish spouted like sheep, I really do not want to be part of a system that is lacking in any kind of decent way forward that might actually benefit us all rather than a privileged few. It is like Turkeys voting for Christmas with the current set-up of Right Wing Media controlling the minds of the Electorate.
I prefer to stand aside, and watch from the sidelines as everything from Healthcare to Pensions starts to unravel around me, and the perpetrators garner even more votes.
posted on 19/4/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/4/17
comment by Galvation. (U10415)
posted 40 seconds ago
A colleague of mine is a single mother with chronic asthma and other chest problems, and as such is always at the doctors or the hospital.
She also cares for her elderly mother with no help from anyone...well apart from her daughter who helps her too.
She is paid just above minimum wage (but lower than the £10 Labour have mentioned) and is voting Tory because she hates Corbyn...and Sturgeon for wanting outShe voted OUT btw...she's unashamedly xenophobic (at best)..oh and Teresa May is a strong woman apparently.
I often come back to lunch and see the Daily Mail website is up on her pc...
I want to tell her she should just punch herself in the face repeatedly.
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Yep I know a bloke who's a minimum wage shift worker in the NHS who complains about how it's run and his zero hour contract, and is a staunch Tory. Some people really must like complaining!
posted on 19/4/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/4/17
comment by Bestie (U1113)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Galvation. (U10415)
posted 40 seconds ago
A colleague of mine is a single mother with chronic asthma and other chest problems, and as such is always at the doctors or the hospital.
She also cares for her elderly mother with no help from anyone...well apart from her daughter who helps her too.
She is paid just above minimum wage (but lower than the £10 Labour have mentioned) and is voting Tory because she hates Corbyn...and Sturgeon for wanting outShe voted OUT btw...she's unashamedly xenophobic (at best)..oh and Teresa May is a strong woman apparently.
I often come back to lunch and see the Daily Mail website is up on her pc...
I want to tell her she should just punch herself in the face repeatedly.
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Yep I know a bloke who's a minimum wage shift worker in the NHS who complains about how it's run and his zero hour contract, and is a staunch Tory. Some people really must like complaining!
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Some people are just thick
posted on 19/4/17
comment by Galvation. (U10415)
posted 6 minutes ago
https://twitter.com/sanglesey/status/854580175530594305
The front pages have already called anyone who dare oppose as 'saboteurs'
And in this one...
https://twitter.com/SunApology/status/854600099103682560/photo/1
'Rebels'
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One of the comments on that first link brought up the sweetest little fact about the election date:
The 8th of June is the day that 1984 was first published.
posted on 19/4/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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