comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 3 minutes ago
Western Intervention obviously has played a part. Stretty's argument is incredibly simplistic though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed.

Western intervention, like religion, is an easy stick to wave about.

comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 42 seconds ago
Ladies and gentlemen, Kung Fu is here

Killed more threads than a fire at Primark
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because you have no reasonable response.

Here you are on your moral high horse calling the killing of civilians immoral yet you were justifying incinerating women and children with a nuclear bomb around a week ago.

Your brain is totally confused.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The bombs in WW2 were justified and certainly a better option than a land invasion that would have killed millions of Japanese

And the killing of civilians is immoral. But in the Middle East the western forces don't want to kill innocent people. It's not their mission plan each morning

The person who did this tonight planned to kill children and lots of them. There is no excuse for that and talk of middle eastern politics changes nothing.

Pure evil was on show tonight. Nothing more, nothing less

comment by Alasnomoresmithandjones (long live Israel) (U15157)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Alasnomoresmithandjones (long live Israel) (U15157)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 12 seconds ago
terrorist attacks wouldn't drive support for right wing parties if the left wing ones actually grew some balls and get their heads out the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe we could just stop blowing other countries back to the Stone Age. Might work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
seriously st fu, so manys try to justify this stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It happens all the time, if it turns out to be terrorists, they'll start blaming Blair and Bush. Kung Fu is forever using these two as an excuse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"“In Dying to Win Robert P@pe presents the findings of the first comprehensive database of every suicide terrorist attack in the world from 1980 until today. Discrediting widely-held misconceptions on suicide terrorism, he creates for the first time a clear psychological, sociological and strategic profile for combating suicide attacks.

The data show that there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world’s religions. In fact, the leading instigators of suicide attacks are the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a Marxist-Leninist group whose members are from Hindu families but who are adamantly opposed to religion. This group committed 76 of the 315 incidents, more suicide attacks than Hamas.

Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland. Religion is rarely the root cause, although it is often used as a tool by terrorist organizations in recruiting and in other efforts in service of the broader strategic objective."

https://www.opendemocracy.net/arts/suicideterrorism_3836.jsp

Unless you can find evidence to suggest this violence is political I suggest you keep quiet before making your self look completely stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember when I brought up the treatment of Yazidis by Isis? You dismissed it because more Muslims have been killed. You claim you care about other religions but you're a liar.

Have you seen Isis:Origins of violence?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember when that never happened?

You do know we have multiple people on this thread that we part of that debate.

I challenge you to pull out the quotes where I dismissed the death's of the Christians.

I also challenge to respond to the evidence above.

Well yes when 4 million people die and and there walking around buildings that have collapsed I think it's understandable why they'd be a tad annoyed at that.

Investigators suggesting suicide bomber

stretty so why are most of the attacks in the middle east killing other muslim people?

Can Rob, Stretty and everyone else arguing with them, please shut up for a minute and have some respect for once!

And the killing of civilians is immoral. But in the Middle East the western forces don't want to kill innocent people. It's not their mission plan each morning
-----

Then why do so many end up dead?

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 38 seconds ago
stretty so why are most of the attacks in the middle east killing other muslim people?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No doubt about it, the Middle East is in a shambles.

But we have heavily contributed to that shambles.

I'm sure you'll agree.

comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 15 seconds ago
And the killing of civilians is immoral. But in the Middle East the western forces don't want to kill innocent people. It's not their mission plan each morning
-----

Then why do so many end up dead?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

If ISIS had access to the same weaponry how many people would be dead?

Hundreds of millions most likely

comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 13 seconds ago
And the killing of civilians is immoral. But in the Middle East the western forces don't want to kill innocent people. It's not their mission plan each morning
-----

Then why do so many end up dead?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
civilians will die in a war, it's nonsensical comparing casualties in war (however tragic or unjust) to people who died in an incident like tonight.

comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 15 seconds ago
And the killing of civilians is immoral. But in the Middle East the western forces don't want to kill innocent people. It's not their mission plan each morning
-----

Then why do so many end up dead?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

If ISIS had access to the same weaponry how many people would be dead?

Hundreds of millions most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That just deflects from my question, doesn't answer it.

Terrorist attacks can't be about religion.

If they were, you'd have weird things happening like terrorists attacking the offices of cartoonists who have mocked religious figures but have otherwise done nothing wrong.

And I can't imagine anything as weird as that. Can you?

comment by enlightened hippo - i got mou babe (U1301)
posted 41 minutes ago
why would you not expect this in manchester? pretty much the first place you would expect it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dunno to be honest. I have my suspicions on who's behind the attack and would expect something like this to happen in a bigger city than Manchester. Probably jumping the gun too early but who knows.

comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 15 seconds ago
And the killing of civilians is immoral. But in the Middle East the western forces don't want to kill innocent people. It's not their mission plan each morning
-----

Then why do so many end up dead?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

If ISIS had access to the same weaponry how many people would be dead?

Hundreds of millions most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That just deflects from my question, doesn't answer it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

It shows the difference between the two causes

One is to stop insurgents in a country and sadly innocent people get caught up in it.

The other is a campaign to purposely kill as many innocents as possible

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 26 seconds ago
stretty so why are most of the attacks in the middle east killing other muslim people?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because most of the people in the Middle East are Muslims.

comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 38 seconds ago
stretty so why are most of the attacks in the middle east killing other muslim people?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No doubt about it, the Middle East is in a shambles.

But we have heavily contributed to that shambles.

I'm sure you'll agree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree, but there must be more to it than just 'western intevention' if most of the terrorists casualties are muslims not from the west.

comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Alasnomoresmithandjones (long live Israel) (U15157)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Alasnomoresmithandjones (long live Israel) (U15157)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Stretty - mr mourinho (U3123)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 12 seconds ago
terrorist attacks wouldn't drive support for right wing parties if the left wing ones actually grew some balls and get their heads out the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe we could just stop blowing other countries back to the Stone Age. Might work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
seriously st fu, so manys try to justify this stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It happens all the time, if it turns out to be terrorists, they'll start blaming Blair and Bush. Kung Fu is forever using these two as an excuse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"“In Dying to Win Robert P@pe presents the findings of the first comprehensive database of every suicide terrorist attack in the world from 1980 until today. Discrediting widely-held misconceptions on suicide terrorism, he creates for the first time a clear psychological, sociological and strategic profile for combating suicide attacks.

The data show that there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world’s religions. In fact, the leading instigators of suicide attacks are the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a Marxist-Leninist group whose members are from Hindu families but who are adamantly opposed to religion. This group committed 76 of the 315 incidents, more suicide attacks than Hamas.

Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland. Religion is rarely the root cause, although it is often used as a tool by terrorist organizations in recruiting and in other efforts in service of the broader strategic objective."

https://www.opendemocracy.net/arts/suicideterrorism_3836.jsp

Unless you can find evidence to suggest this violence is political I suggest you keep quiet before making your self look completely stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember when I brought up the treatment of Yazidis by Isis? You dismissed it because more Muslims have been killed. You claim you care about other religions but you're a liar.

Have you seen Isis:Origins of violence?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember when that never happened?

You do know we have multiple people on this thread that we part of that debate.

I challenge you to pull out the quotes where I dismissed the death's of the Christians.

I also challenge to respond to the evidence above.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said a thing about Christians? And you did dismiss the treatment of Yazidis by Isis. You want to watch that programme Kung Fu it's an eye opener.

comment by Clockwork Red: blow a kiss, fire a gun (U4892)
posted 30 seconds ago
Terrorist attacks can't be about religion.

If they were, you'd have weird things happening like terrorists attacking the offices of cartoonists who have mocked religious figures but have otherwise done nothing wrong.

And I can't imagine anything as weird as that. Can you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This

The day that happens we might as well just lock up and go home

Can you lot STOP RUINING THIS THREAD FFS

Can't believe (and yet can believe) how quickly this thread has descended into the usual bickering.

comment by Freedom FC (Welcome to Texas) (U7214)
posted 43 seconds ago
comment by enlightened hippo - i got mou babe (U1301)
posted 41 minutes ago
why would you not expect this in manchester? pretty much the first place you would expect it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dunno to be honest. I have my suspicions on who's behind the attack and would expect something like this to happen in a bigger city than Manchester. Probably jumping the gun too early but who knows.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There have been lots of (relatively minor) attacks in smaller French and German cities. I suppose it's the nature of the lone wolf, really. Why go all the way to a capital city when there are soft targets elsewhere?

comment by Jalisco Red - Lionel Jesse (U4195)
posted 6 seconds ago
Can't believe (and yet can believe) how quickly this thread has descended into the usual bickering.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was absolutely fine till Berbaking turned up

This thread is going to get deleted by the morning.

We don't know who's behind it yet. Yes, you can have your suspicions but it's a moot point until otherwise.

comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🇵🇸 JeSuisPalestinian 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 42 seconds ago
Ladies and gentlemen, Kung Fu is here

Killed more threads than a fire at Primark
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because you have no reasonable response.

Here you are on your moral high horse calling the killing of civilians immoral yet you were justifying incinerating women and children with a nuclear bomb around a week ago.

Your brain is totally confused.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The bombs in WW2 were justified and certainly a better option than a land invasion that would have killed millions of Japanese

And the killing of civilians is immoral. But in the Middle East the western forces don't want to kill innocent people. It's not their mission plan each morning

The person who did this tonight planned to kill children and lots of them. There is no excuse for that and talk of middle eastern politics changes nothing.

Pure evil was on show tonight. Nothing more, nothing less
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So much confusion in your brain it's tragic, especially because you call religious people brain washed when we can see you've been brain washed by nationalism.

A moment ago you said a billion children dying doesn't justify what happened today. Now you are justifying the mass killing of the Japanese. Can you see the double standards on display?

You said western forces don't attack civilians, ermmm you do know you just finished talking about western forces attacking Japanese civilians with nukes before you said that right?

Take away Japan and you have ample evidence of America attacking Vietnamese civilians, raping and killing them.

There is a well known problem of far right groups infiltrating western armies. What do you think skinheads are doing in Iraq right now?

http://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/1/281x351/263325_1.jpg

Then you have the notion that going into war knowing that you will be killing civilians or "collateral damage" is ok. It isn't.

If you know without a shadow of doubt civilians are going to die, it means you are targeting civilians.