Just read we've played the host nations 9 times in Euro and World Cup history



...and they've knocked us out every f*cking time

the match ended yesterday but reports are coing in saying the spanish players are still passing the ball in midfield at the Luzniki...they've now racked up 1,000,000 passes (without a shot on goal)

tiki taka

1. Brazil 7/2
2. France 7/2
3. Croatia 11/2
4. England 11/2
5. Belgium 13/2
6. Uruguay 14/1
7. Colombia 18/1
8. Russia 20/1
9. Switzerland 33/1
10. Sweden 40/1
11. Mexico 50/1
12. Japan 200/1

Hmmm. Russia at 20/1 is tempting.

It's not just a problem of failing to evolve the style, which we haven't, but that it's actually gone backwards.

We no longer have the players for the style we're trying to play. We're not deploying it properly, and we haven't done enough to address the problems or evolve the style.

Our possession play is way, way too pedestrian and agonisingly predictable. Even third tier int'l sides know how to counter it.

Russia were shockingly bad yesterday. Uruguay beat them with consummate ease; any good int'l side should be knocking 4 goals past them. The fact we couldn't beat them at all and only managed to score by virtue of an own goal from a set piece says it all really.

Then there's the press, which isn't anywhere near as intense as it should be. This is what exposes us so badly on the counter. It was in fact better yesterday than in previous games, but it's still nowhere near good enough. The energy and organisation are no longer there.

De Gea isn't a good fit for this system, but he's getting way too much grief for 1 mistake and being poor at penalties. It's the system and not the keeper that needs changing.

It's as Spanish football was still awe-struck by our success and is blind to the reality that it's not going to work again without the right players (and manager).

Sacking the manager two days before the tournament kicked off was an incredibly stupid decision, but even with Lopetegui I doubt we'd have got much further than the QFs anyway.

They need to wake up and smell the coffee.

comment by Conte'nt = eism (U20893)
posted 10 minutes ago
1. Brazil 7/2
2. France 7/2
3. Croatia 11/2
4. England 11/2
5. Belgium 13/2
6. Uruguay 14/1
7. Colombia 18/1
8. Russia 20/1
9. Switzerland 33/1
10. Sweden 40/1
11. Mexico 50/1
12. Japan 200/1

Hmmm. Russia at 20/1 is tempting.

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Russia are shockingly bad. Even if they did by some miracle make the final, and that would be some miracle, they should get ripped to shreds by whoever makes it from the other side of the draw.

I'd actually back England to beat them by 3 or 4 clear goals if they both make the semi.

You seem to be in good spirit IOAG.

It was pointless for Russia to play Spain in their own game, so they sat back and countered whenever they could. This was their game plan anyway.
I thought Spain were unlucky, as they should have a penalty awarded, not sure what happened. Probably Putin happened

In fairness to Russia they rested a couple of their key players against Uruguay ( a dead rubber game).

Totally agree with your assessment regarding Spain. That said I don’t think Spain will change much in their playing style though. After all it’s difficult to change the identity.

Tiki taka and high line pressing are the two styles of football that can go most catastrophically wrong if not implemented correctly. Considering the lack of time managers have with their national team it is really risky to set up your teams like this especially if you don't necessarily have the players to play that way (I don't think Isco suits Tiki Taka well at all).

I don't think its difficult to change the identity at all btw Conte. If Zidane got the spain job he could of very easily and successfully set up the Spain side to look a bit like his RM teams.

I'm fine, Conte'nt. I'm at peace with football.

It did look like a good shout for penalty (although I haven't reviewed it in detail), and yeah, it would have been much easier to give if we hadn't been playing the hosts, but that's the nature of the beast.

A good side would never have let it come down to that.

I disagree on Russia though. They barely broke at all. The penalty was their only shot on target in 120 minutes. They were, by a very considerable distance, the least threatening team we faced this tournament.

Add that they're not really that solid defensively, concede at set pieces and look vulnerable on the counter and even in open play, and that they'll probably fancy their chances a bit more against other sides, and I just can't see them winning this even with divine intervention from the Kremlin.

Edin, I'm with you on all those counts. Given the time constraints, you really need to have ideally suited players to be able to get it to work. Worth bearing in mind that unlike 2010-12, none of these players really play that way at club level either.

Just as they raised us to glory in those years, the Barça contingent really let us down this time round.

Piqué, honestly, wtf was the stupid w*nker thinking???

ioag
Do you think Spain would have done better if the manager debacle didn't happen? I think they looked a lot better before the tournament and quite lost during. The mess cost Spain quite a lot

With regards to the penalty - Mark Clattenburg cleared it up the other day.

When VAR is used for grappling in the penalty box, they will not overturn a foul if the opposing player is grappling them. So like if the Russian guy is pulling 70% of the amount and Ramos was doing 30% then they aren't going to award a penalty.

I think there is a case for post-Guardiola causing the damage to Spain/Germany identity crisis. Two teams who had success playing Tiki Taka which was heavily influenced by Pep; now failing badly at it.

Still can’t believe Russia are in the quarters, I’m pretty sure most people thought they wouldn’t get through the group stages.

Also their manager looks Turkish

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 19 minutes ago
I don't think its difficult to change the identity at all btw Conte. If Zidane got the spain job he could of very easily and successfully set up the Spain side to look a bit like his RM teams.
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Whoever comes in will need time to implement their new ideas and style of play. Traditionally Spain are known for their tiki taka footy, which brought them s lot of success in the past.

It will depend a lot who they will recruit and if he’s willing to give up on a style of footy that brought them success.

Luis Enrique is being linked with the Spain job today

comment by Conte'nt = eism (U20893)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 19 minutes ago
I don't think its difficult to change the identity at all btw Conte. If Zidane got the spain job he could of very easily and successfully set up the Spain side to look a bit like his RM teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoever comes in will need time to implement their new ideas and style of play. Traditionally Spain are known for their tiki taka footy, which brought them s lot of success in the past.

It will depend a lot who they will recruit and if he’s willing to give up on a style of footy that brought them success.
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They aren't traditionally though. The tiki taka generation is only from 08-12 really.

@wump

Impossible to say, but I do think we'd have dealt with them. Not ure how far we'd have gone the way the draw's opened up, but still don't think we'd have won the whole thing.

@Edin

I'm ok with the decision, though I do reckon there's a fair chance it would've been awarded without VAR if we hadn't been facing the hosts. Another one that's impossible to tell, but we really shouldn't have been in a position for it to boil down to tht regardless.

@ Arab

I think Setién could do a good job. Good possession-based manager, but who's pragmatic and intelligent enough to introduce the changes needed to suit our players.

Certainly feel he'd currently be the best choice if we decide to stick with a Spanish manager.

I think a better manager would have taken off Koke a lot earlier AND realised that Russia are old as hell and suck with players running at them (THUS PLAY RODRIGO!)

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
@wump

Impossible to say, but I do think we'd have dealt with them. Not ure how far we'd have gone the way the draw's opened up, but still don't think we'd have won the whole thing.

@Edin

I'm ok with the decision, though I do reckon there's a fair chance it would've been awarded without VAR if we hadn't been facing the hosts. Another one that's impossible to tell, but we really shouldn't have been in a position for it to boil down to tht regardless.

@ Arab

I think Setién could do a good job. Good possession-based manager, but who's pragmatic and intelligent enough to introduce the changes needed to suit our players.

Certainly feel he'd currently be the best choice if we decide to stick with a Spanish manager.
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Setien would have had that job long ago if he didn't make the stupid decision to go manage in France. Pretty bizarre decision at the time.

I agree though, I didn't think Spain would win it, they did stand a good chance though. They are much better than what they showed in the tournament

Spain were really good vs Portugal tbf, quite unfortunate to face Ronaldo at his best.

Unfortunately, It looks like an end to an era for Spain.

Who do you fancy to lift the World Cup (apart from England ) Edin ?

I thought Croatia would go far in this competition, but after watching them yesterday, not sure anymore. France or Brazil look the most likely, also the bookies are generally spot on, even though there have been few surprises along the way.

I was Brazil at the start of the tournament and there has been little thats happened since to change my mind tbh.

Teams that struggle to break down park-the-bus often have successful tournaments as its all about how they perform in high pressure and with a lot of space. Think it is theres to lose now.

My top three in order would be Brazil if Neymar finally clicks, Uruguay if Cavani's fit, or France if the other two scenarios fail to pass.


On Spain, I think Costa's opening performance might have been detrimental in a way, as it prevented us from going for a more flexible attack sooner.

Our in-game management was poor throughout though, so it might not have changed anything.