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These 114 comments are related to an article called:

Totally Disillusioned with World Cups

Page 4 of 5

posted on 9/10/17

comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 6 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Russia admitted to a state doping program at Sochi, but as far as you are concerned its all an anti Russia media campaign?"

No. It's just not relevant to Russia's ability to host the World Cup. I'd understand though if that weighed on bids for the Olympics, athletic meets, swimming, cycling etc.

"Putin ripped up the Russian constitution to stay in power, but again that was just a made up anti Russian media campaign."

What does this have to do with football any more than the regime-changing US-led NATO alliance.

"Putin critic Nalvany held in a detention centre so he can not stand in upcoming election...another made up story by Western media."

Why does this matter any more than countries that murder thousands of mostly "collateral" casualties in drone strikes? And what does it have to do with the ability to host a football tournament?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
My article and feeling on this issue is not about ability to host sporting events, so i am not sute why you keep getting drawn to that word 'ability'?. The only time I touched on ability was in response to your first mention of Russia's ability to host sporting events. Even though it is not my original point, since you keep raising it, I will ask you the same question again "In what way has a country that state sponsored doping when it hosted the Winter Olympics demonstrated it has the ability to host a major global sporting event/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because they violated no FIFA regulations and it's irrelevant. And it seems more a line you're conveniently squeezing in and stressing when potential hypocrisy was getting pointed out (even though you still won't state where you're from and who you'd support to host) about your political slant.

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Firstly, I think you are being racist to continually associate the relevance of my country of birth to my right to feel about issues. I am insulted on that count and am in no mood to divulge to a person who appears to be looking to racial stereo type in a debate.

I have no political slant, this is my view as an individual.

You appear fixated on the "ability to host", but the aqrticdle has never been about that.

Nowt you have stated FIFA violations and again the article has never been about that.

But when i engage on your theme of debate and ask this questions.

"How can a country that state sponsored doping at the Winter Olympics be deemed fit to host major sporting world events"

You repeatedly dodge the questions.

posted on 9/10/17

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)

Bro you talk about doping but did you miss the news that 95 out of 96 russian athletes were cleared of doping charges? Or did the media you listen to just ignored that? I'm not in love with Russia as it has as much blood on its hands as western countries but what I don't like is one murderous country is being called evil while others champions of democracy.

Again that is politics and we all what the politicians and politics as it has become a way of making money and grabbing power instead of representing the will of the masses. Again all we are asking is keep sports and politics separate from each other.

posted on 9/10/17

comment by DreamTeamBlue ! دريم تيم بلو ! (U5861)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)

Bro you talk about doping but did you miss the news that 95 out of 96 russian athletes were cleared of doping charges? Or did the media you listen to just ignored that? I'm not in love with Russia as it has as much blood on its hands as western countries but what I don't like is one murderous country is being called evil while others champions of democracy.

Again that is politics and we all what the politicians and politics as it has become a way of making money and grabbing power instead of representing the will of the masses. Again all we are asking is keep sports and politics separate from each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With all due respect you are poorly informed or choose to ignore the crucial details that due to evidence being destroyed it was not possible to make the case agst these athletes.

But more importantly Russia admitted to state sponsored doping, so whey are we even debating this further.

posted on 9/10/17

And to repeat, the who issue of whether Russia or Qatar has the ability to host sporting events is irrelevant to my article .

posted on 9/10/17

good article this,
great arguments both sides of the coin.

one observation i have is how divisive the little pockets groups can be,
be it "human Rights", snippets of "racism" "free speech" and "oppressive regimes" etc,

Even an article about whether the world cup should be hosted in a certain country can be politicised.
Its quite crazy how divisive these things are and have caused war's and the deaths of innocent people.

Makes you think if this is really the human condition or a manufactured rhetoric aimed at keeping this division in society, division in society gives people the chance to have their say in these subjects, creating governments, creating the "voting system" all of which creates the illusion of freedom.

Does the colour of someone's skin REALLY make people hate them, Does the orientation of a person's sexual nature REALLY cause another person to hate them....I certainly don't get that, it just doesn't compute with me, we are all humans at the end of the day,

went off on a bit of a tangent their

something that is a natural human right, however, is freedom of thought and freedom of speech, the notion that this needs to be earned is veryt silly indeed

posted on 9/10/17

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Hector (U3606)

posted on 9/10/17

I agree with their policy of rotating it Regionally/Continentaly to grow the game, giving fans all over the world the chance to see the best players.

Arabia doesn't have any governments who play fair, they're Kingdoms with absolute monarchies and its as much Russias time as anyone else.

posted on 9/10/17

comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 23 minutes ago
I don't think FIFA should get involved in deciding which country is ethical or not to host a World Cup. Nor would I trust them to.

Just focus on deciding whether said country is potentially dangerous to incoming supporters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You make an excellent point there Sidey. They can't be trusted to make those decisions and are probably not qualified to do so.

But that does not change my feeling of disillusionment that one of the largest global events will be used by these two countries as one great propaganda fest.

posted on 9/10/17

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 9/10/17

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 6 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Russia admitted to a state doping program at Sochi, but as far as you are concerned its all an anti Russia media campaign?"

No. It's just not relevant to Russia's ability to host the World Cup. I'd understand though if that weighed on bids for the Olympics, athletic meets, swimming, cycling etc.

"Putin ripped up the Russian constitution to stay in power, but again that was just a made up anti Russian media campaign."

What does this have to do with football any more than the regime-changing US-led NATO alliance.

"Putin critic Nalvany held in a detention centre so he can not stand in upcoming election...another made up story by Western media."

Why does this matter any more than countries that murder thousands of mostly "collateral" casualties in drone strikes? And what does it have to do with the ability to host a football tournament?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
My article and feeling on this issue is not about ability to host sporting events, so i am not sute why you keep getting drawn to that word 'ability'?. The only time I touched on ability was in response to your first mention of Russia's ability to host sporting events. Even though it is not my original point, since you keep raising it, I will ask you the same question again "In what way has a country that state sponsored doping when it hosted the Winter Olympics demonstrated it has the ability to host a major global sporting event/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because they violated no FIFA regulations and it's irrelevant. And it seems more a line you're conveniently squeezing in and stressing when potential hypocrisy was getting pointed out (even though you still won't state where you're from and who you'd support to host) about your political slant.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, I think you are being racist to continually associate the relevance of my country of birth to my right to feel about issues. I am insulted on that count and am in no mood to divulge to a person who appears to be looking to racial stereo type in a debate.

I have no political slant, this is my view as an individual.

You appear fixated on the "ability to host", but the aqrticdle has never been about that.

Nowt you have stated FIFA violations and again the article has never been about that.

But when i engage on your theme of debate and ask this questions.

"How can a country that state sponsored doping at the Winter Olympics be deemed fit to host major sporting world events"

You repeatedly dodge the questions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This isn't racism, it is prejudism. Could you please stop calling it racism.


In my point of view whilst the Qatar world cup is genuinely appalling and they shouldn't have got it for a million reasons, the major one being that the death toll is estimated to equate to a ridiculous 4,000 lives by the time of the first kick off.

Russia is one that is unfair to have a stance on; we cannot pick and choose which country deserves/doesn't deserve to host the world cup based on our own political preference. The UK & US this Millennium participated in a horrendously unethical and illegal war; Putin turned around his own countries economical issues and helped change Russia to a superpower. Depending on what view, or stance you have you can make a case for or against most countries in the world, with the notable exception of the self-serving countries such as Norway or Switzerland.

Fundamentally as Sideshow eloquently put, FIFA shouldn't have a stance with regards to countries politics; its a world football event and the opportunity needs to be given to the rest of the World.

posted on 9/10/17

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 6 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Russia admitted to a state doping program at Sochi, but as far as you are concerned its all an anti Russia media campaign?"

No. It's just not relevant to Russia's ability to host the World Cup. I'd understand though if that weighed on bids for the Olympics, athletic meets, swimming, cycling etc.

"Putin ripped up the Russian constitution to stay in power, but again that was just a made up anti Russian media campaign."

What does this have to do with football any more than the regime-changing US-led NATO alliance.

"Putin critic Nalvany held in a detention centre so he can not stand in upcoming election...another made up story by Western media."

Why does this matter any more than countries that murder thousands of mostly "collateral" casualties in drone strikes? And what does it have to do with the ability to host a football tournament?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
My article and feeling on this issue is not about ability to host sporting events, so i am not sute why you keep getting drawn to that word 'ability'?. The only time I touched on ability was in response to your first mention of Russia's ability to host sporting events. Even though it is not my original point, since you keep raising it, I will ask you the same question again "In what way has a country that state sponsored doping when it hosted the Winter Olympics demonstrated it has the ability to host a major global sporting event/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because they violated no FIFA regulations and it's irrelevant. And it seems more a line you're conveniently squeezing in and stressing when potential hypocrisy was getting pointed out (even though you still won't state where you're from and who you'd support to host) about your political slant.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, I think you are being racist to continually associate the relevance of my country of birth to my right to feel about issues. I am insulted on that count and am in no mood to divulge to a person who appears to be looking to racial stereo type in a debate.

I have no political slant, this is my view as an individual.

You appear fixated on the "ability to host", but the aqrticdle has never been about that.

Nowt you have stated FIFA violations and again the article has never been about that.

But when i engage on your theme of debate and ask this questions.

"How can a country that state sponsored doping at the Winter Olympics be deemed fit to host major sporting world events"

You repeatedly dodge the questions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This isn't racism, it is prejudism. Could you please stop calling it racism.


In my point of view whilst the Qatar world cup is genuinely appalling and they shouldn't have got it for a million reasons, the major one being that the death toll is estimated to equate to a ridiculous 4,000 lives by the time of the first kick off.

Russia is one that is unfair to have a stance on; we cannot pick and choose which country deserves/doesn't deserve to host the world cup based on our own political preference. The UK & US this Millennium participated in a horrendously unethical and illegal war; Putin turned around his own countries economical issues and helped change Russia to a superpower. Depending on what view, or stance you have you can make a case for or against most countries in the world, with the notable exception of the self-serving countries such as Norway or Switzerland.

Fundamentally as Sideshow eloquently put, FIFA shouldn't have a stance with regards to countries politics; its a world football event and the opportunity needs to be given to the rest of the World.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edin...an individual can have a view on this topic and it need not be dependent on there country of birth.

We as individuals will have our own criteria of acceptability. Russia does not meet mine. For me personally it is a pity that others accept the Russia model, but that is their and of course your right to do so.

posted on 9/10/17

its a world football event and the opportunity needs to be given to the rest of the World.
----------------------------------------------------
It is so much more than a football event and that is the point.

posted on 9/10/17

This isn't racism, it is prejudism. Could you please stop calling it racism.
------------------------------------------------------
If the prejudism is based on the country that appears on my birth certifcate? What type of prejudice is it exactly?

posted on 9/10/17

I agree, which is why I never said anything about the country of your birth part. It's like the whole mentality on this forum that the club you support somehow validates your opinion.

However there is also a point in that there is a lack of consistency where the line is drawn. (This point is a hypothetical as I don't know your stance with) but lets say you are OK with the USA hosting it. A country that singles out Muslims from a presidential level and doesn't let them in the border; a country built on slavery and has racism and bigotry running through its roots; a country that has participated in countless disgusting wars and killed thousands of innocent lives partly for their own gain; a country in which its own police-force kills lots of innocent lives. Who meets the probably hypocritical standards and who doesn't?

posted on 9/10/17

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 6 minutes ago
This isn't racism, it is prejudism. Could you please stop calling it racism.
------------------------------------------------------
If the prejudism is based on the country that appears on my birth certifcate? What type of prejudice is it exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bigotry, xenophobia. Not racism.

posted on 9/10/17

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 9/10/17

comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 1 minute ago
Hosting an event where thousands of people from different ethnicities and cultures come together, could also invoke positive change to any unsavoury aspects of Russian culture.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It could in theory I agree, but history suggests otherwise.

posted on 9/10/17

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 9/10/17

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 9/10/17

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 9/10/17

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 4 minutes ago
I agree, which is why I never said anything about the country of your birth part. It's like the whole mentality on this forum that the club you support somehow validates your opinion.

However there is also a point in that there is a lack of consistency where the line is drawn. (This point is a hypothetical as I don't know your stance with) but lets say you are OK with the USA hosting it. A country that singles out Muslims from a presidential level and doesn't let them in the border; a country built on slavery and has racism and bigotry running through its roots; a country that has participated in countless disgusting wars and killed thousands of innocent lives partly for their own gain; a country in which its own police-force kills lots of innocent lives. Who meets the probably hypocritical standards and who doesn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edin....the last 12 months are without a doubt the most difficult for sometime for the USA, but i think it is unfair to use this period as typical of the country.

Their last president was Black, i am not sure, but i think we can say that neither England, Germany or France have yet had a black President or Prime Minister.

A country built on slavery,well as mentioned before, sadly empires have been 1000s of years. Today modernised forms of slavery still exist, but I don't think they exist today USA, but in countries like Qatar.

And as i said it comes down to one's individual criteria.

You clearly include a high weighting on foreign policy. I do to, but I also weigh it up agst foreign aid too.

But for me personally, a state that will happily make people disappear of the streets for their opposing political views never to be seen again is not worthy of a global propaganda window.

posted on 9/10/17

comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 5 minutes ago
How far back do you have to go for it to?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely much easier for you to point out when such a landmark outcome actually came to pass and if its legacy still exists?

posted on 9/10/17

The reality is minorities and spectators from certain erhnic backgrounds are in danger more in Russia than they are in America and i is obtuse to say otherwise.
=============================
Add non violent political activists to that list

posted on 9/10/17

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 9/10/17

NPE again, you are doing what you like to do best and making baseless arguments off of things you have wrongfully interpreted. I am not using my criticisms of America to validate any other country, I am saying that it is tough to draw a line when so many countries are far from perfect.

Resort to name calling all you want, but I would argue it is idiocy to think that the actions of an autocrat are significantly worse than invading Afghanistan in 2001 and killing a documented 31,000 people and injuring 29,900. Unless the lives of these people matter less in your eyes?

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