comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/45bdcd7a-1cb1-4ad1-a3e0-ebc2a05243ac
Have a read of what that chap has to say.
I really don’t see the difficulty in connecting someone who is banging one out or prn 5 times a day, every day watching beautiful women that they couldn’t likely manage to get with, add in the violent type of filth that is readily available online for free with someone who dislikes women, is bitter, resentful and potentially violent towards women.
Maybe it’s just me but I see those things quite clearly linked?
**To clarify not everyone that watched prn will end up an incel before someone tries some kind of straw man**
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 27 minutes ago
I think 'enforced monogamy' as a concept, is poorly thought out and really should be rejected.
It's fine to like things JP says and find some of his psychology useful or insightful. But at the same time, he is capable of saying things which are very wrong.
Just look at Freud, who despite being recognised as groundbreaking, also said a lot of dumb crap.
Intelligent people are sometimes the worst idiots around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole incel narrative is a ridiculous construction and isn’t supported by data.
Women aged 22-35 aren’t any more sexually promiscuous than they were a generation ago.
No, 20% of guys don’t dominate 80% of women’s sexual experiences. (Measuring the number of partners instead of sexual frequency, the top 20% most promiscuous men account for about 60% of male sexual partnerings, and that trend has been quite stable across decades.)
And even their claim that the number of celibate young men is increasing is questionable: some surveys show that is has increased; some show it decreasing.
Various changes have happened, like people getting married later, which has had an impact on the number of sexual experiences young people are having.
But the key claims, that a select few Chads are dominating a growing number of Staceys, and that there is a rapidly or significantly growing number of involuntarily excluded incels, are not supported by data and are plain wrong.
The more interesting story is about how and why these people who consider themselves incels have actually come to do so, who has been pushing the (I think now failing) narrative, and why.
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously ) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/45bdcd7a-1cb1-4ad1-a3e0-ebc2a05243ac
Have a read of what that chap has to say.
I really don’t see the difficulty in connecting someone who is banging one out or prn 5 times a day, every day watching beautiful women that they couldn’t likely manage to get with, add in the violent type of filth that is readily available online for free with someone who dislikes women, is bitter, resentful and potentially violent towards women.
Maybe it’s just me but I see those things quite clearly linked?
**To clarify not everyone that watched prn will end up an incel before someone tries some kind of straw man**
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I read the article. There is a passing reference to watching prn (and playing video games) but the 4chan and 8chan and general low self esteem seem to be far bigger contributors to how his mental health was.
It is probably not just you who sees them clearly linked. In the mind of an incel (who hates chads and staceys?) wouldn’t watching prn be some sort of masochistic act? I get that prn addiction can be a serious and real thing. Similarly being an incel can be. I’m not sure I see the clear link you seem to though, other than they have a strong undercurrent of misogyny running through both of them, which appears to be the root cause; the role that these people believe would should (and in their minds used to) play in society,
This was an interesting read that I found just this morning;
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1077801221996453
PS. Admin - you can’t use the word “p o r n” on this site?
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/45bdcd7a-1cb1-4ad1-a3e0-ebc2a05243ac
Have a read of what that chap has to say.
I really don’t see the difficulty in connecting someone who is banging one out or prn 5 times a day, every day watching beautiful women that they couldn’t likely manage to get with, add in the violent type of filth that is readily available online for free with someone who dislikes women, is bitter, resentful and potentially violent towards women.
Maybe it’s just me but I see those things quite clearly linked?
**To clarify not everyone that watched prn will end up an incel before someone tries some kind of straw man**
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I read the article. There is a passing reference to watching prn (and playing video games) but the 4chan and 8chan and general low self esteem seem to be far bigger contributors to how his mental health was.
It is probably not just you who sees them clearly linked. In the mind of an incel (who hates chads and staceys?) wouldn’t watching prn be some sort of masochistic act? I get that prn addiction can be a serious and real thing. Similarly being an incel can be. I’m not sure I see the clear link you seem to though, other than they have a strong undercurrent of misogyny running through both of them, which appears to be the root cause; the role that these people believe would should (and in their minds used to) play in society,
This was an interesting read that I found just this morning;
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1077801221996453
PS. Admin - you can’t use the word “p o r n” on this site?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do find the swear filter annoying but it is what it is.
We seem to be focusing just on pograpghy when it was one item of many that I believe increase this type of mentality. Main causes? I don’t know, I don’t even know how that would be calculated.
Do I think that if pnofrsphy didn’t exist, there would be less hostility and this bitter line of thinking? Yes
Much like some of the other factors that I mentioned.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also a good point
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the concern and linkage to these anecdotal examples is that this picture is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Especially for those in large busy cities.
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
Again this harks back to some of the topics that Simon Sinek touched on.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the concern and linkage to these anecdotal examples is that this picture is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Especially for those in large busy cities.
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
Again this harks back to some of the topics that Simon Sinek touched on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So I’d first point out that the superficial traits that perform well on those apps because those apps are designed around superficiality. In part anyway.
I’d probably also distinguish bumble from tinder and Grindr, but hey ho.
However, those do not represent the full suite of dating type apps out there. EHarmony, Match, elite singles (which is basically if you’ve had an education so ripe for “geeks” ) are all open and can be used if people are seeking a serious relationship.
I met my wife on a dating app btw. Of the 3 wedding I have this year 2 met on dating apps, one at work.
Yeah I don't think it is anywhere near is simple as 'be nice to women' although obviously you should be. Social media, continued periods of isolation, prevalence of prnography, and the relativism we now expound on sxx where we have utterly separated it from more meaningful concepts beyond pleasure, are all massive issues here.
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don't think sexual promiscuity is really the reason these people are not integrated into society.
Their ideology states that it is. But I find a lot of what they say stems from resentment and general humiliation, of not being a functional member of general society.
Incels will blame the general culture. But their social isolation does not really stem from any of it tbh.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And like I say above, the core issue appears to me to be misogyny, a view of women as somehow lesser. That’s the mindset to change. With that, you no longer are angry that you weren’t “chosen” to sleep with, and instead respect other peoples choices.
On promiscuity - I think it is less tied to incels and more to general unhappiness tbh.
Pointing out dating sites and algorithms would definitely be more applicable. These places are competitive marketplaces in a way. And therefore there are people who struggle in this kind of landscape.
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
-----------
Having gone on those apps last year before meeting my girlfriend, I can easily see why certain people, especially men, would feel like absolute shi!e on them.
Not only because your average looking man gets way less likes, but also the apps heavily push forward the idea the only reason you're not getting matches or likes is because you haven't paid a subscription. So if you then do pay for it and still aren't getting likes, then it must feel rather crap.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve got it open in a tab but haven’t read it yet.
It’s a very dangerous time for parents for all of these reasons we are listing. Very hard for parents to control exposure to all of this.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And like I say above, the core issue appears to me to be misogyny, a view of women as somehow lesser. That’s the mindset to change. With that, you no longer are angry that you weren’t “chosen” to sleep with, and instead respect other peoples choices.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah and I think a lot of videos out there help promote that type of thinking. These videos these days are next level and obviously disgusting to say the least. Women getting strangled, spat on, slapped, choked, tied up, whipped and apparently heads flushed down toilets? If you have a teenager or younger watching videos like that from an early age; I think it follows to reason that this type of exposure can certainly influence a young mind in the direction of becoming an incel.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 5 minutes ago
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
-----------
Having gone on those apps last year before meeting my girlfriend, I can easily see why certain people, especially men, would feel like absolute shi!e on them.
Not only because your average looking man gets way less likes, but also the apps heavily push forward the idea the only reason you're not getting matches or likes is because you haven't paid a subscription. So if you then do pay for it and still aren't getting likes, then it must feel rather crap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t used them but I understand the concept and yeah I can imagine that they are massively demoralising for those less appealing on a surface level.
As has been pointed there are better apps which are much less superficial and I don’t know the exact demographics but I’d guess that the likes of tinder Al have a younger age groups subscribing than match say.
So the Polish offer their fighter jets to the Americans and it gets pushed back. Why?
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And like I say above, the core issue appears to me to be misogyny, a view of women as somehow lesser. That’s the mindset to change. With that, you no longer are angry that you weren’t “chosen” to sleep with, and instead respect other peoples choices.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That mindset has always been there, of course. The difference is that previously, people who held it were able to go about their misogynistic business very successfully; manipulating, abusing, demeaning, restricting, punishing and owning women, without recourse of any kind.
Now, not so much. And whereas in the old world the misogynists were as successful with women as they decided they wanted to be, in the new world, they’re probably less so than your average (less bigoted) bloke, as society has improved immeasurably (with work still to do, obviously) in refusing to tolerate the treatment of women as objects for men. Which misogynists no doubt resent.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve got it open in a tab but haven’t read it yet.
It’s a very dangerous time for parents for all of these reasons we are listing. Very hard for parents to control exposure to all of this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it was ever thus. The same arguments were made about Elvis Presley or the Rolling Stones. The real core root causes of the manifestation of these issues, for me, are;
- poorly informed and equipped parents (support for parents on how to approach such topics should be sent to all parents in the UK),
- disengaged parents (through work, lack of confident [per previous point] or a general lack of interest),
- schoolyard bullying (which has come on leaps and bounds but tracks behind the “how” bullying happens as always, and on bullying it continues to be a stain on the UK government that a minister found to be a bully is still in their role)
- lack of teachers suitably equipped to deal with the issues.
- lack of resources for extra-curricular activities with funding for such activities reduced.
Each of these lead to isolation for children or teenagers on into adulthood, which is what leads to these people cocooning themselves online.
comment by Harry Ambrose (U11781)
posted 7 minutes ago
So the Polish offer their fighter jets to the Americans and it gets pushed back. Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like cold feet
https://twitter.com/PentagonPresSec/status/1501336445729968129?t=jxDRXuh-IZXi4FZItOPzqA&s=19
Sign in if you want to comment
Arguing w/strangers cause I'm lonely thread
Page 2553 of 4857
2554 | 2555 | 2556 | 2557 | 2558
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/45bdcd7a-1cb1-4ad1-a3e0-ebc2a05243ac
Have a read of what that chap has to say.
I really don’t see the difficulty in connecting someone who is banging one out or prn 5 times a day, every day watching beautiful women that they couldn’t likely manage to get with, add in the violent type of filth that is readily available online for free with someone who dislikes women, is bitter, resentful and potentially violent towards women.
Maybe it’s just me but I see those things quite clearly linked?
**To clarify not everyone that watched prn will end up an incel before someone tries some kind of straw man**
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 27 minutes ago
I think 'enforced monogamy' as a concept, is poorly thought out and really should be rejected.
It's fine to like things JP says and find some of his psychology useful or insightful. But at the same time, he is capable of saying things which are very wrong.
Just look at Freud, who despite being recognised as groundbreaking, also said a lot of dumb crap.
Intelligent people are sometimes the worst idiots around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole incel narrative is a ridiculous construction and isn’t supported by data.
Women aged 22-35 aren’t any more sexually promiscuous than they were a generation ago.
No, 20% of guys don’t dominate 80% of women’s sexual experiences. (Measuring the number of partners instead of sexual frequency, the top 20% most promiscuous men account for about 60% of male sexual partnerings, and that trend has been quite stable across decades.)
And even their claim that the number of celibate young men is increasing is questionable: some surveys show that is has increased; some show it decreasing.
Various changes have happened, like people getting married later, which has had an impact on the number of sexual experiences young people are having.
But the key claims, that a select few Chads are dominating a growing number of Staceys, and that there is a rapidly or significantly growing number of involuntarily excluded incels, are not supported by data and are plain wrong.
The more interesting story is about how and why these people who consider themselves incels have actually come to do so, who has been pushing the (I think now failing) narrative, and why.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously ) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/45bdcd7a-1cb1-4ad1-a3e0-ebc2a05243ac
Have a read of what that chap has to say.
I really don’t see the difficulty in connecting someone who is banging one out or prn 5 times a day, every day watching beautiful women that they couldn’t likely manage to get with, add in the violent type of filth that is readily available online for free with someone who dislikes women, is bitter, resentful and potentially violent towards women.
Maybe it’s just me but I see those things quite clearly linked?
**To clarify not everyone that watched prn will end up an incel before someone tries some kind of straw man**
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I read the article. There is a passing reference to watching prn (and playing video games) but the 4chan and 8chan and general low self esteem seem to be far bigger contributors to how his mental health was.
It is probably not just you who sees them clearly linked. In the mind of an incel (who hates chads and staceys?) wouldn’t watching prn be some sort of masochistic act? I get that prn addiction can be a serious and real thing. Similarly being an incel can be. I’m not sure I see the clear link you seem to though, other than they have a strong undercurrent of misogyny running through both of them, which appears to be the root cause; the role that these people believe would should (and in their minds used to) play in society,
This was an interesting read that I found just this morning;
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1077801221996453
PS. Admin - you can’t use the word “p o r n” on this site?
posted on 9/3/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be interested to understand how you come to the conclusion that p 0rnography addiction can lead to being an inception in an obvious and quite apparent way? No judgement, I don’t know much about either, and per BH wouldn’t be surprised if there was an strong undercurrent of misogyny running through people in both situations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/45bdcd7a-1cb1-4ad1-a3e0-ebc2a05243ac
Have a read of what that chap has to say.
I really don’t see the difficulty in connecting someone who is banging one out or prn 5 times a day, every day watching beautiful women that they couldn’t likely manage to get with, add in the violent type of filth that is readily available online for free with someone who dislikes women, is bitter, resentful and potentially violent towards women.
Maybe it’s just me but I see those things quite clearly linked?
**To clarify not everyone that watched prn will end up an incel before someone tries some kind of straw man**
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I read the article. There is a passing reference to watching prn (and playing video games) but the 4chan and 8chan and general low self esteem seem to be far bigger contributors to how his mental health was.
It is probably not just you who sees them clearly linked. In the mind of an incel (who hates chads and staceys?) wouldn’t watching prn be some sort of masochistic act? I get that prn addiction can be a serious and real thing. Similarly being an incel can be. I’m not sure I see the clear link you seem to though, other than they have a strong undercurrent of misogyny running through both of them, which appears to be the root cause; the role that these people believe would should (and in their minds used to) play in society,
This was an interesting read that I found just this morning;
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1077801221996453
PS. Admin - you can’t use the word “p o r n” on this site?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do find the swear filter annoying but it is what it is.
We seem to be focusing just on pograpghy when it was one item of many that I believe increase this type of mentality. Main causes? I don’t know, I don’t even know how that would be calculated.
Do I think that if pnofrsphy didn’t exist, there would be less hostility and this bitter line of thinking? Yes
Much like some of the other factors that I mentioned.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also a good point
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the concern and linkage to these anecdotal examples is that this picture is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Especially for those in large busy cities.
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
Again this harks back to some of the topics that Simon Sinek touched on.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 10 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also women through the toxicity of their mindset.
*Anecdote warning*
My mates are largely a bunch of working class (and broke), ugly, unathletic, awkward clowns - a jolly mix of proper weird geeks and ill-educated man-children. (I consider myself part of this number, obviously) We really don’t have much going for us individually
But thinking about it, none of us has ever had any issue with women, from our days at school onwards, and I think a large part of that is probably because to a man, we’ve always *been nice to women*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ditto. Always had a group of both boys and girls pals growing up which I like to think helped in that, and I think now we’re all either married or engaged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the concern and linkage to these anecdotal examples is that this picture is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Especially for those in large busy cities.
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
Again this harks back to some of the topics that Simon Sinek touched on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So I’d first point out that the superficial traits that perform well on those apps because those apps are designed around superficiality. In part anyway.
I’d probably also distinguish bumble from tinder and Grindr, but hey ho.
However, those do not represent the full suite of dating type apps out there. EHarmony, Match, elite singles (which is basically if you’ve had an education so ripe for “geeks” ) are all open and can be used if people are seeking a serious relationship.
I met my wife on a dating app btw. Of the 3 wedding I have this year 2 met on dating apps, one at work.
posted on 9/3/22
Yeah I don't think it is anywhere near is simple as 'be nice to women' although obviously you should be. Social media, continued periods of isolation, prevalence of prnography, and the relativism we now expound on sxx where we have utterly separated it from more meaningful concepts beyond pleasure, are all massive issues here.
posted on 9/3/22
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
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Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by puNPE (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
I think people should stop being hung up on a phrase even Peterson said he expressed poorly from 2018 tbh.
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I think yes and no.
Yes: because a) he is probably developed or changed his stance b) people can be mistaken on topics.
No: because it does remain an ideological goal for incels and it continues to be defended.
Whilst I do not pity incels, it needs to be acknowledged that their resentment, fosters from being outsiders to the rest of society.
They find themselves in a bind between wanting recognition for whatever grievances they have, and being unable to get recognition through the toxicity of their mindset.
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I think what Peterson is talking about is the societal changes in the western world in particular that have occurred over recent decades leading to instant gratification, over s3xualisation, prnography addiction, lack of traditional relationship values. He’s spilling into some of what Simon Sinek talks about the modern generation.
@soq he wasn’t defending incels or the sick person he was talking about, but explaining how things things are encouraged to happen when you change society as we have in recent years.
People can disagree with Jordan Peterson as much as they want to, opinions are like…..
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Whilst these vices are problems, I don't really believe them to be the reasons for people becoming Incels. I see it as a problem stemming from mental health, lack of opportunities and internet echo chambers. I don't something think prnography, leads people to become Incels.
At best you can say those vices might lead to misogyny. In which case then JP, would be better off saying we need to fight misogyny rather than enforced monogamy. But that would be very much off brand for him.
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You’re entitled to your opinion but I think the link to orngraphy addiction and people ending up feeling the way they incels do is quite apparent & obvious.
I never said it was the sole cause, I listed various things. None of which help and all of which create a melting pot which exacerbate these feelings in people.
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Yeah I don't think sexual promiscuity is really the reason these people are not integrated into society.
Their ideology states that it is. But I find a lot of what they say stems from resentment and general humiliation, of not being a functional member of general society.
Incels will blame the general culture. But their social isolation does not really stem from any of it tbh.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And like I say above, the core issue appears to me to be misogyny, a view of women as somehow lesser. That’s the mindset to change. With that, you no longer are angry that you weren’t “chosen” to sleep with, and instead respect other peoples choices.
posted on 9/3/22
On promiscuity - I think it is less tied to incels and more to general unhappiness tbh.
posted on 9/3/22
Pointing out dating sites and algorithms would definitely be more applicable. These places are competitive marketplaces in a way. And therefore there are people who struggle in this kind of landscape.
posted on 9/3/22
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
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Having gone on those apps last year before meeting my girlfriend, I can easily see why certain people, especially men, would feel like absolute shi!e on them.
Not only because your average looking man gets way less likes, but also the apps heavily push forward the idea the only reason you're not getting matches or likes is because you haven't paid a subscription. So if you then do pay for it and still aren't getting likes, then it must feel rather crap.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve got it open in a tab but haven’t read it yet.
It’s a very dangerous time for parents for all of these reasons we are listing. Very hard for parents to control exposure to all of this.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And like I say above, the core issue appears to me to be misogyny, a view of women as somehow lesser. That’s the mindset to change. With that, you no longer are angry that you weren’t “chosen” to sleep with, and instead respect other peoples choices.
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Yeah and I think a lot of videos out there help promote that type of thinking. These videos these days are next level and obviously disgusting to say the least. Women getting strangled, spat on, slapped, choked, tied up, whipped and apparently heads flushed down toilets? If you have a teenager or younger watching videos like that from an early age; I think it follows to reason that this type of exposure can certainly influence a young mind in the direction of becoming an incel.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 5 minutes ago
How would such undesirables perform on bumble, tinder, Grindr etc. in an Instagram world, we’re valuing very, very shallow and superficial traits rather than deeper traits that will see you through a proper relationship.
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Having gone on those apps last year before meeting my girlfriend, I can easily see why certain people, especially men, would feel like absolute shi!e on them.
Not only because your average looking man gets way less likes, but also the apps heavily push forward the idea the only reason you're not getting matches or likes is because you haven't paid a subscription. So if you then do pay for it and still aren't getting likes, then it must feel rather crap.
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I haven’t used them but I understand the concept and yeah I can imagine that they are massively demoralising for those less appealing on a surface level.
As has been pointed there are better apps which are much less superficial and I don’t know the exact demographics but I’d guess that the likes of tinder Al have a younger age groups subscribing than match say.
posted on 9/3/22
So the Polish offer their fighter jets to the Americans and it gets pushed back. Why?
posted on 9/3/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And like I say above, the core issue appears to me to be misogyny, a view of women as somehow lesser. That’s the mindset to change. With that, you no longer are angry that you weren’t “chosen” to sleep with, and instead respect other peoples choices.
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That mindset has always been there, of course. The difference is that previously, people who held it were able to go about their misogynistic business very successfully; manipulating, abusing, demeaning, restricting, punishing and owning women, without recourse of any kind.
Now, not so much. And whereas in the old world the misogynists were as successful with women as they decided they wanted to be, in the new world, they’re probably less so than your average (less bigoted) bloke, as society has improved immeasurably (with work still to do, obviously) in refusing to tolerate the treatment of women as objects for men. Which misogynists no doubt resent.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/96764/incels-like-jake-davison-and-hardcore-porn
Here’s an article that covers the topic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the article. As a new parent I’ve become aware of Tanith these past few months. Did you read the study that I shared?
The article reads very much like the “violent video games caused columbine” narrative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve got it open in a tab but haven’t read it yet.
It’s a very dangerous time for parents for all of these reasons we are listing. Very hard for parents to control exposure to all of this.
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But it was ever thus. The same arguments were made about Elvis Presley or the Rolling Stones. The real core root causes of the manifestation of these issues, for me, are;
- poorly informed and equipped parents (support for parents on how to approach such topics should be sent to all parents in the UK),
- disengaged parents (through work, lack of confident [per previous point] or a general lack of interest),
- schoolyard bullying (which has come on leaps and bounds but tracks behind the “how” bullying happens as always, and on bullying it continues to be a stain on the UK government that a minister found to be a bully is still in their role)
- lack of teachers suitably equipped to deal with the issues.
- lack of resources for extra-curricular activities with funding for such activities reduced.
Each of these lead to isolation for children or teenagers on into adulthood, which is what leads to these people cocooning themselves online.
posted on 9/3/22
comment by Harry Ambrose (U11781)
posted 7 minutes ago
So the Polish offer their fighter jets to the Americans and it gets pushed back. Why?
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Looks like cold feet
https://twitter.com/PentagonPresSec/status/1501336445729968129?t=jxDRXuh-IZXi4FZItOPzqA&s=19
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