comment by Superb (U6486)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted less than a minute ago
No I don't. If anyone else gets it then by all means attempt to explain it to me.
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I have explained it .... the fact you dont get is very telling and explains a lot.
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I've already laid out the challenge for anyone else to try to explain it to me. Just because you've explained it that doesn't mean anyone else will understand it. I'll repeat what you said in case anyone reading back misses it:
"see thats the thing about things that couldnt happen before but could happen in the future. if they couldnt happen before then guess what .... it wont have happened yet".
If anyone can explain that I'll buy them a beer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
one more time . your not coming out to well here.
You said cos something hadnt happened in the past it wont happen in the future .....
UFC didnt have any competition signing fighter up cos there was no other conpetition anywhere near being able to fund it to compete either on an individual basis or a roster.
However we are now getting to the stage where other banners can now start to compete for the signature of a single fighter ...... for eg if Bellator put all their eggs into one basket to back a future star they could offer more than the UFC who wouldnt be willing to put so much risk into one fighter when the have loads already.
So Bellator could have the best fighter on the planet paying him massively more than any other fighter in bellator to afford him and all he has to do is beat up lesser fighters for easy paydays, keep the zero and claim to be the best. then one of the other banners repeats this process. they dont even need to be the best just have a great presence and fan base.
so you would have a situation where one banner is paying a superstar mega money to fight for them, another banner paying another superstar mega money, and the UFC with the vast majority of the best fighters.
they two top fighters will never fight any other top fighter on the other banners.
mark my words this is what the other banners will do ... its the secret to growth nowadays.
Its also niave to say that the best fights happen on UFC cos they have the best fighters, UFC has plenty of "top" fighters that are more a character and talker than they are a top fighter.
Pimblett being the prime example of this. he isnt even close to being the best ...... most people would think he is the best currently. he isnt.
one more time . your not coming out to well here.
-------------
Someone call the grammar and spelling police lol.
You seem really interested to keep talking about Bellator and how it might continue to grow and one day have the best fighter etc. That's all fine, I have no problem with that if that's what happens and hopefully Bellator continues to expand. I have no interest in carrying in talking about it though
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
You seem really interested to keep talking about Bellator and how it might continue to grow and one day have the best fighter etc. That's all fine, I have no problem with that if that's what happens and hopefully Bellator continues to expand. I have no interest in carrying in talking about it though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
im using them as an example cos they are the next biggest organisation to the UFC (i think) and the one growing the quickest and easiest to relate to.
I dont know why you would be happy with that thats a horrible situation to be in were one guys just fights easy fights all his career getting paid a fortune to carry a platform on his own and not fight the best.
"Someone call the grammar and spelling police lol." its a forum not an exam , its the pettiest form of avoiding the point in hand.
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree the best in the UFC will fight each other .... I just dont think the current format is sutainable and certainly not something for boxing to take note of.
My problem is people using the UFC set up to compare it to the boxing one.
were discussing the future state of the sports not the past and not current.
clearly UFC has the best roster and they fight each other. As the sports continues to grow the chances in all the best fighters remaining under the same banner lessens.
this is how boxing used to be, there used to be one banner one title, the best used to fight the best. then it became more popular and more organisations fancied a bigger slice of the pie and you get what we have now in boxing.
I can see the same thing happening with MMA. the other banners will gain more money and be able to fund one of fighters more to carry them and build them up in order to fund more. then you will have 3/4/5 or how many other organisations who will act the same way the WBC/WBO top rank/ golden boy etc work.
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 8 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree the best in the UFC will fight each other .... I just dont think the current format is sutainable and certainly not something for boxing to take note of.
My problem is people using the UFC set up to compare it to the boxing one.
were discussing the future state of the sports not the past and not current.
clearly UFC has the best roster and they fight each other. As the sports continues to grow the chances in all the best fighters remaining under the same banner lessens.
this is how boxing used to be, there used to be one banner one title, the best used to fight the best. then it became more popular and more organisations fancied a bigger slice of the pie and you get what we have now in boxing.
I can see the same thing happening with MMA. the other banners will gain more money and be able to fund one of fighters more to carry them and build them up in order to fund more. then you will have 3/4/5 or how many other organisations who will act the same way the WBC/WBO top rank/ golden boy etc work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
when I say sustainable I mean in terms of the best fighting the best ..... not financially.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
-------------------
Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 minutes ago
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
-------------------
Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats mostly true but not entirely.
plenty of UFC fighters get opportunities due to popularity over ability.
If Crawford and Spence were fighters in the UFC they would have fought each other years ago already. We'd probably have a trilogy done and dusted by now.
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
If Crawford and Spence were fighters in the UFC they would have fought each other years ago already. We'd probably have a trilogy done and dusted by now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no one is suggesting they wouldnt are they?
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 minutes ago
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
-------------------
Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats mostly true but not entirely.
plenty of UFC fighters get opportunities due to popularity over ability.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh but they are still probably some of the best in the division. So ok might not be champ Vs 1, but it's champ Vs 4 in a close division. In boxing we get champ Vs 15th in not even a close division......
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
We're going off on tangents here so I'll try to simplify my point. I said that in UFC we nearly always see the very best fight each other and get the best match ups. Unlike in boxing with Spence vs Crawford and Fury vs Usyk being the two current prime examples of BS stopping the very best fighting each other.
Say what you want about UFC and it's certainly far from perfect but the best MMA fighters are there so UFC spectators are treated to the best fighting the best without all the problems that pervade boxing. And that is why so many are moving from boxing to UFC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 51 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Two fighters in MMA not being able to fight each other due to legal reasons is an issue.
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 minutes ago
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
-------------------
Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats mostly true but not entirely.
plenty of UFC fighters get opportunities due to popularity over ability.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh but they are still probably some of the best in the division. So ok might not be champ Vs 1, but it's champ Vs 4 in a close division. In boxing we get champ Vs 15th in not even a close division......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again I agree I dont have a gripe with the way UFC do things, they do plenty wrong but it works.
I just dont think there is any point using it as some barometer to compare to boxing when there is massive differences in how they are organised.
I can see the problems they will face in the future that could stop the best fighting the best and have even less chance of them getting made than we see in boxing.
the reason you see far less mismatches in UFC and another reason its not fair to compare is that fighers are very rarely green in the UFC they have normally already had multiple fights under their belts on different platforms against lesser opponents.
Bozing dopesnt have that we follow most boxers from day 1.
Conor had 5 years of fights before he joined the UFC so like I said its an unfair comparison. Conor would have fought plenty of poorer fighters and his career was 100 cherry picked for him, to give him fighters that were best suited to him.
there was a reason they didnt stick him in with Diaz or any other experrt grappler with a great engine unti he was on the slide and no longer weight bullying opponents. Like I said currently the set up is great for the UFC but lets not pretend its not flawed either and can run into problems in the future
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 16 minutes ago
If Crawford and Spence were fighters in the UFC they would have fought each other years ago already. We'd probably have a trilogy done and dusted by now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally so, if Spence was in the UFC and Crawford in Bellator, the fight would never happen.
My final point would be this:
The UFC currently have most of the best fighters and theu make these guys fight. Boxing is lagging behind in that particular department. However, we are starting to see UFC fighters push back and refuse fights or look for other opportunities elsewhere. I think in the next 15 years or so, UFC and MMA will have a similar issue that boxing does at the moment, when it comes to the best fighting the best.
Time will ultimately tell.
I also agree with whodunnit, in regards to the comparison between boxing and MMA. Both are different models and structured differently, which makes certain areas and arguments trickier to present.
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 1 minute ago
My final point would be this:
The UFC currently have most of the best fighters and theu make these guys fight. Boxing is lagging behind in that particular department. However, we are starting to see UFC fighters push back and refuse fights or look for other opportunities elsewhere. I think in the next 15 years or so, UFC and MMA will have a similar issue that boxing does at the moment, when it comes to the best fighting the best.
Time will ultimately tell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
boxing used to be under one banner the best used to fight the best.
then all the other organisations started up and gained traction til you get what we have now.
the same thing is happening with MMA only its happening quicker.
We have guys like Ngannou walking away, Pimblett refusing to fight people who are too good! (literally thats what he said) Conor Mcgregor handpicking his opponents for the last 5 years.
then you get into the stuff that White has allowed and intoduces for the purpose of entertainment over safety.
Ie the TRT things, and one thing the fighter are hugely against, later weigh ins so give less time to recover.
two examples of many, both introduced to increase the chance of knockouts. Now I am all for improving the spectacle of the sport but doing it tot he detriment of the fighters is disgraceful. He also encourages to fighter to fight each other at the lowest weights possible to try and encouraqge KO's also there is a $hit load of dodginess that also exists in UFC (and other MMA banners tbf) but with one guy holding most of the aces there is always the chance for this sorts stuff.
(now it sounds like Im proper hating on UFC/MMA) I love it honestly !!!
I could rant the same about all the stuff wrong in boxing too FWIW.
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you do know that most are fans of both ! the divide is far smaller than it ever was. the majority of boxing fans like MMA. id say there is lower percentage of MMA fans that like boxing.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you do know that most are fans of both ! the divide is far smaller than it ever was. the majority of boxing fans like MMA. id say there is lower percentage of MMA fans that like boxing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I know there are fans of both, I'm one of them.
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you do know that most are fans of both ! the divide is far smaller than it ever was. the majority of boxing fans like MMA. id say there is lower percentage of MMA fans that like boxing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I know there are fans of both, I'm one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
jsut the way you worded the previous comments came across as a UFC elitist talking down on the boxing community. Cos you wrote boxing fans can look on while "WE" wait for great fights. it reads that you are separate from the boxing fans community is all.
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posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted less than a minute ago
No I don't. If anyone else gets it then by all means attempt to explain it to me.
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I have explained it .... the fact you dont get is very telling and explains a lot.
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I've already laid out the challenge for anyone else to try to explain it to me. Just because you've explained it that doesn't mean anyone else will understand it. I'll repeat what you said in case anyone reading back misses it:
"see thats the thing about things that couldnt happen before but could happen in the future. if they couldnt happen before then guess what .... it wont have happened yet".
If anyone can explain that I'll buy them a beer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
one more time . your not coming out to well here.
You said cos something hadnt happened in the past it wont happen in the future .....
UFC didnt have any competition signing fighter up cos there was no other conpetition anywhere near being able to fund it to compete either on an individual basis or a roster.
However we are now getting to the stage where other banners can now start to compete for the signature of a single fighter ...... for eg if Bellator put all their eggs into one basket to back a future star they could offer more than the UFC who wouldnt be willing to put so much risk into one fighter when the have loads already.
So Bellator could have the best fighter on the planet paying him massively more than any other fighter in bellator to afford him and all he has to do is beat up lesser fighters for easy paydays, keep the zero and claim to be the best. then one of the other banners repeats this process. they dont even need to be the best just have a great presence and fan base.
so you would have a situation where one banner is paying a superstar mega money to fight for them, another banner paying another superstar mega money, and the UFC with the vast majority of the best fighters.
they two top fighters will never fight any other top fighter on the other banners.
mark my words this is what the other banners will do ... its the secret to growth nowadays.
Its also niave to say that the best fights happen on UFC cos they have the best fighters, UFC has plenty of "top" fighters that are more a character and talker than they are a top fighter.
Pimblett being the prime example of this. he isnt even close to being the best ...... most people would think he is the best currently. he isnt.
posted on 10/3/23
one more time . your not coming out to well here.
-------------
Someone call the grammar and spelling police lol.
posted on 10/3/23
You seem really interested to keep talking about Bellator and how it might continue to grow and one day have the best fighter etc. That's all fine, I have no problem with that if that's what happens and hopefully Bellator continues to expand. I have no interest in carrying in talking about it though
posted on 10/3/23
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
You seem really interested to keep talking about Bellator and how it might continue to grow and one day have the best fighter etc. That's all fine, I have no problem with that if that's what happens and hopefully Bellator continues to expand. I have no interest in carrying in talking about it though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
im using them as an example cos they are the next biggest organisation to the UFC (i think) and the one growing the quickest and easiest to relate to.
I dont know why you would be happy with that thats a horrible situation to be in were one guys just fights easy fights all his career getting paid a fortune to carry a platform on his own and not fight the best.
"Someone call the grammar and spelling police lol." its a forum not an exam , its the pettiest form of avoiding the point in hand.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree the best in the UFC will fight each other .... I just dont think the current format is sutainable and certainly not something for boxing to take note of.
My problem is people using the UFC set up to compare it to the boxing one.
were discussing the future state of the sports not the past and not current.
clearly UFC has the best roster and they fight each other. As the sports continues to grow the chances in all the best fighters remaining under the same banner lessens.
this is how boxing used to be, there used to be one banner one title, the best used to fight the best. then it became more popular and more organisations fancied a bigger slice of the pie and you get what we have now in boxing.
I can see the same thing happening with MMA. the other banners will gain more money and be able to fund one of fighters more to carry them and build them up in order to fund more. then you will have 3/4/5 or how many other organisations who will act the same way the WBC/WBO top rank/ golden boy etc work.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 8 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly
posted on 10/3/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
However in boxing this is not the case, the best within the same organisations are not fighting each other.....not because they CANT ala UFC Vs Bellator, they cannot fight each other for contractual reasons. Not because they make up some BS excuses. There is 0 real reasons for Manny Vs Mayweather not have happened sooner, there are 0 reason for Fury Vs AJ/Us etc etc etc. In MMA you most often get the best Vs best and they actively fight 2/3 times a year and the UFC have shows basically every week which have several top 5 fights if not championship fights, Bellator and Jungle also do dozen of shows per year with championship fights of the best in the division. In boxing we get Fury Vs fooking Chirsora, or T Fury Vs Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agree the best in the UFC will fight each other .... I just dont think the current format is sutainable and certainly not something for boxing to take note of.
My problem is people using the UFC set up to compare it to the boxing one.
were discussing the future state of the sports not the past and not current.
clearly UFC has the best roster and they fight each other. As the sports continues to grow the chances in all the best fighters remaining under the same banner lessens.
this is how boxing used to be, there used to be one banner one title, the best used to fight the best. then it became more popular and more organisations fancied a bigger slice of the pie and you get what we have now in boxing.
I can see the same thing happening with MMA. the other banners will gain more money and be able to fund one of fighters more to carry them and build them up in order to fund more. then you will have 3/4/5 or how many other organisations who will act the same way the WBC/WBO top rank/ golden boy etc work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
when I say sustainable I mean in terms of the best fighting the best ..... not financially.
posted on 10/3/23
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
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Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 minutes ago
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
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Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
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thats mostly true but not entirely.
plenty of UFC fighters get opportunities due to popularity over ability.
posted on 10/3/23
If Crawford and Spence were fighters in the UFC they would have fought each other years ago already. We'd probably have a trilogy done and dusted by now.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
If Crawford and Spence were fighters in the UFC they would have fought each other years ago already. We'd probably have a trilogy done and dusted by now.
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no one is suggesting they wouldnt are they?
posted on 10/3/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 minutes ago
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
-------------------
Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats mostly true but not entirely.
plenty of UFC fighters get opportunities due to popularity over ability.
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Yeh but they are still probably some of the best in the division. So ok might not be champ Vs 1, but it's champ Vs 4 in a close division. In boxing we get champ Vs 15th in not even a close division......
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
We're going off on tangents here so I'll try to simplify my point. I said that in UFC we nearly always see the very best fight each other and get the best match ups. Unlike in boxing with Spence vs Crawford and Fury vs Usyk being the two current prime examples of BS stopping the very best fighting each other.
Say what you want about UFC and it's certainly far from perfect but the best MMA fighters are there so UFC spectators are treated to the best fighting the best without all the problems that pervade boxing. And that is why so many are moving from boxing to UFC.
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Agreed.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 51 minutes ago
Again who, you are missing the point and you keep muddying the waters.
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up. And the only reason the best in bellator won't fight the best in UFC is they legally can not.
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Two fighters in MMA not being able to fight each other due to legal reasons is an issue.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 minutes ago
Most UFC fighters will fight the best - and it doesn't matter what banner they are under. The best in the UFC will fight each other. The best in bellator will fight each other, there is never an excuse for the the champ to fight no1 and often have little to no say in that match up.
-------------------
Yup this has simply been my point all along. In UFC or Bellator the best fight the best. The Champion fights the number 1 contender and there's no messing around or barriers constantly preventing that happening like there is in boxing. And most boxing fans are getting sick of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats mostly true but not entirely.
plenty of UFC fighters get opportunities due to popularity over ability.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh but they are still probably some of the best in the division. So ok might not be champ Vs 1, but it's champ Vs 4 in a close division. In boxing we get champ Vs 15th in not even a close division......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again I agree I dont have a gripe with the way UFC do things, they do plenty wrong but it works.
I just dont think there is any point using it as some barometer to compare to boxing when there is massive differences in how they are organised.
I can see the problems they will face in the future that could stop the best fighting the best and have even less chance of them getting made than we see in boxing.
the reason you see far less mismatches in UFC and another reason its not fair to compare is that fighers are very rarely green in the UFC they have normally already had multiple fights under their belts on different platforms against lesser opponents.
Bozing dopesnt have that we follow most boxers from day 1.
Conor had 5 years of fights before he joined the UFC so like I said its an unfair comparison. Conor would have fought plenty of poorer fighters and his career was 100 cherry picked for him, to give him fighters that were best suited to him.
there was a reason they didnt stick him in with Diaz or any other experrt grappler with a great engine unti he was on the slide and no longer weight bullying opponents. Like I said currently the set up is great for the UFC but lets not pretend its not flawed either and can run into problems in the future
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 16 minutes ago
If Crawford and Spence were fighters in the UFC they would have fought each other years ago already. We'd probably have a trilogy done and dusted by now.
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Equally so, if Spence was in the UFC and Crawford in Bellator, the fight would never happen.
posted on 10/3/23
My final point would be this:
The UFC currently have most of the best fighters and theu make these guys fight. Boxing is lagging behind in that particular department. However, we are starting to see UFC fighters push back and refuse fights or look for other opportunities elsewhere. I think in the next 15 years or so, UFC and MMA will have a similar issue that boxing does at the moment, when it comes to the best fighting the best.
Time will ultimately tell.
posted on 10/3/23
I also agree with whodunnit, in regards to the comparison between boxing and MMA. Both are different models and structured differently, which makes certain areas and arguments trickier to present.
posted on 10/3/23
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 1 minute ago
My final point would be this:
The UFC currently have most of the best fighters and theu make these guys fight. Boxing is lagging behind in that particular department. However, we are starting to see UFC fighters push back and refuse fights or look for other opportunities elsewhere. I think in the next 15 years or so, UFC and MMA will have a similar issue that boxing does at the moment, when it comes to the best fighting the best.
Time will ultimately tell.
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boxing used to be under one banner the best used to fight the best.
then all the other organisations started up and gained traction til you get what we have now.
the same thing is happening with MMA only its happening quicker.
We have guys like Ngannou walking away, Pimblett refusing to fight people who are too good! (literally thats what he said) Conor Mcgregor handpicking his opponents for the last 5 years.
then you get into the stuff that White has allowed and intoduces for the purpose of entertainment over safety.
Ie the TRT things, and one thing the fighter are hugely against, later weigh ins so give less time to recover.
two examples of many, both introduced to increase the chance of knockouts. Now I am all for improving the spectacle of the sport but doing it tot he detriment of the fighters is disgraceful. He also encourages to fighter to fight each other at the lowest weights possible to try and encouraqge KO's also there is a $hit load of dodginess that also exists in UFC (and other MMA banners tbf) but with one guy holding most of the aces there is always the chance for this sorts stuff.
(now it sounds like Im proper hating on UFC/MMA) I love it honestly !!!
I could rant the same about all the stuff wrong in boxing too FWIW.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
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Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
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you do know that most are fans of both ! the divide is far smaller than it ever was. the majority of boxing fans like MMA. id say there is lower percentage of MMA fans that like boxing.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you do know that most are fans of both ! the divide is far smaller than it ever was. the majority of boxing fans like MMA. id say there is lower percentage of MMA fans that like boxing.
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Of course I know there are fans of both, I'm one of them.
posted on 10/3/23
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 18 minutes ago
One area that cannot be disputed however, is that currently, the UFC make the best fight the best.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup and boxing fans can only look on in envy while we wait for great fights that don't happen when they should or just never even happen at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you do know that most are fans of both ! the divide is far smaller than it ever was. the majority of boxing fans like MMA. id say there is lower percentage of MMA fans that like boxing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I know there are fans of both, I'm one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
jsut the way you worded the previous comments came across as a UFC elitist talking down on the boxing community. Cos you wrote boxing fans can look on while "WE" wait for great fights. it reads that you are separate from the boxing fans community is all.
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