So, a player who gets dropped and loses 40 - 50 million pounds in value (without wages) in two seasons isn't a flop in your eyes?

..................

Now read the comments I have made above and on previous Pogba related threads to understand why.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 12 minutes ago
So, a player who gets dropped and loses 40 - 50 million pounds in value (without wages) in two seasons isn't a flop in your eyes?

..................

Now read the comments I have made above and on previous Pogba related threads to understand why.

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I don't need to know what your reasoning is , a player who gets regularly dropped and loses 40 - 50 million pounds in value (without wages) in two seasons is a flop in my eyes.

Seems most others think so too.

I don't need to know what your reasoning is

..............

You should.

Stretty calling for morata I don't like him by any stretch, but the guy has a 1 in 2 goals to game, in a new league and been injured.

Why isn't Pogba in the OP

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
Sure:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/flop

In future, look things up yourself - it's not my responsibility to teach you the meaning of words.
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Thanks Winston.

In that case are any of these guys flops, all have contributed to games, be it goals, assists etc. Surely they can't be total failures in that case?

There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

Now we have the issue of you trying to make everything black and white.

Clearly some common sense needs to be applied here. If you're not capable, so be it.

The only meaning of the word that applies to what the OP is trying to achieve, taken from the link from Winston, is...

informal A total failure.

Which applies to non of the players mentioned in the OP. Not one of them has been a total failure.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 hours, 49 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

Now we have the issue of you trying to make everything black and white.

Clearly some common sense needs to be applied here. If you're not capable, so be it.
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No you wanted to make it black and white and make the meaning of flop in football terms the same as the literal term you found. You can't have it both ways. It either does mean total failure or it doesn't. Which is it? On one hand you have none of them being flops on the other you have Pogba being the most expensive flop.

Wow what a read.

I think most are now realising that United fans are losing it. Reality is getting away from them.

The amount of laughable excuses and fidgeting over the fact that Pogba is the biggest flop in the history of sports is honestly amusing. Some of the points like Viddy's are hilariously desperate.

There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

No, I'm merely using the word correctly.

You didn't even know what it meant.

It does mean total failure. Total failure from a football perspective is subjective.

Common sense would then let us debate different players under this heading.

But it was clear that you didn't know what the word meant, so I sought to establish that before we continued.

If you think a player who is potentially less than halfway through his contract, still very much part of the first team and who many people believe is struggling in part of because of a manager who may not be there for longer than one more year, can be called a total failure, then I'd suggest you have no idea what you're talking about.

Compare that with a goalkeeper who had a bit of a disaster when he arrived, was dropped and now is not part of the first team because his replacement has played very well... I'd say that he is well on course to be a total failure = a flop.

Common sense.

Something you clearly don't possess because once you've made a decision about your view, you're completely oblivious to why that view may be debatable.

Feyenoord Champions - #shavethedonkeys (U1250)

See above.

It's called common sense.

Look, we all know what flop means when its said on this forum. Mancs now referring to the dictionary to show Pogba isn't a flop

Pogba is a flop until further notice, if ever.

Haha winstons pedantry going as far as wheeling out a dictionary now.

Bet he’s fun at party’s and a total animal at scrabble.

"It does mean total failure."

Ah OK. None of them are flops then.

Now you've taught us the meaning of the word, we can close the thread as there won't be many footballers who can be classed as 'total failures'.

Cheers Winston.

There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

You've chosen to ignore the rest of the thread because it ruins your point.

Better that than you continuing to be shown up, I suppose.

rest of the post*

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 seconds ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

You've chosen to ignore the rest of the thread because it ruins your point.

Better that than you continuing to be shown up, I suppose.
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I haven't, I agree with most of the thread.

However there's no point debating about who in the list are flops with you when you don't think, judging by your definition, that any of them are flops.

So it's over.

There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

Except I do and have explained why.

But thanks for showing your inability to think about subjects outside of straight lines and neat boxes.

You sound like a terrible middle manager.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

Except I do and have explained why.

But thanks for showing your inability to think about subjects outside of straight lines and neat boxes.

You sound like a terrible middle manager.
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Winston you can't just pick and choose when to apply your definition. Either it means total failure or it doesn't. Make up your mind.

You seem to want to have it both ways.

I'll bite - for me your definition is not how it is...or at least in my opinion how it should be applied in terms of how a football player is doing at a club. You don't have to be a total failure at a club, every player will have done something that has helped his club. You simply have to have not performed at the required level. Some people may bring cost into it, for example you haven't performed to a level which is expected of somebody who cost that much.

It's a football term which is not set in stone about what it defines, so you trying to set it in stone doesn't work, it only takes away the debate, the vote and determines that none of the abovementioned are flops.

In trying to prove Pogba isn't a flop, Winston has proven that flops in fact don't exist at all.

There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

I'm not picking and choosing.

I am saying that 'total failure' in a football context is subjective. What don't you understand about that?

"It's a football term which is not set in stone about what it defines, so you trying to set it in stone doesn't work"

I've done the exact opposite, actually. You are the one trying to set a definition in stone.

I think it's exactly how it is. Here are some examples with context:

Total failures in the most extreme sense - Bebe.

Total failure in most people's eyes - Soldado.

Debatable total failure - Lovren.

Not a total failure - Pallister.

The point is that on this article, people rejected the word flop because Pogba's United career is still very much in progress.

I used the dictionary definition to show you why the people saying that are absolutely correct.

To be a flop, you need to be a total failure. You can't be a total failure when there is potentially so much more time and opportunity for things to change.

That does not mean, in any sense, that the term 'total failure' is not subjective.

Everyone knows flop in a footballing context means a failure to meet their expectations.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 29 minutes ago
There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)

Except I do and have explained why.

But thanks for showing your inability to think about subjects outside of straight lines and neat boxes.

You sound like a terrible middle manager.
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LOL, you're the one who brought up a dictionary

You guys should have your own thread.