comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 7 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 8 minutes ago
The national debt has almost increased in the same amount in 4 years under Trump than the 8 years under Obama.
2008 - $10,024.72 Billion
2016 - $19,573.45 Billion
2020 - $26,945.39 Billion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you show, the debt doubled under Obama, ie he borrowed more than every single POTUS that went before him.
Prior to the germ, along with a global lockdown, US debt was around $23 trillion. It would have needed to be around $30 trillion (minus Covid) currently for your point to stand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well even if you ignore Covid, which if you do that then you should really ignore the financial crisis Obama also had to deal with, it's still $4 trillion in 3 years for Trump compared to $9.5 trillion in 8 years for Obama which is essentially the same rate.
Obama: $1.2 trillion a year
Trump: $1.3 trillion a year
So I think it's your original point that Obama handled the debt way worse than Trump that doesn't stand.
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t talk rationally, they don’t like it much.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 7 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 8 minutes ago
The national debt has almost increased in the same amount in 4 years under Trump than the 8 years under Obama.
2008 - $10,024.72 Billion
2016 - $19,573.45 Billion
2020 - $26,945.39 Billion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you show, the debt doubled under Obama, ie he borrowed more than every single POTUS that went before him.
Prior to the germ, along with a global lockdown, US debt was around $23 trillion. It would have needed to be around $30 trillion (minus Covid) currently for your point to stand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well even if you ignore Covid, which if you do that then you should really ignore the financial crisis Obama also had to deal with, it's still $4 trillion in 3 years for Trump compared to $9.5 trillion in 8 years for Obama which is essentially the same rate.
Obama: $1.2 trillion a year
Trump: $1.3 trillion a year
So I think it's your original point that Obama handled the debt way worse than Trump that doesn't stand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed it’s 1.16tn vs 1.008tn (Trump then Obama and going off the last six years of Obama to mitigate the financial crisis) so it’s similar for both and nowhere near double in one term that VC claimed.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t talk rationally, they don’t like it much.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh I know, the years of lies and manipulation from the media made them think that way, thank God many blacks and Latinos are waking up. #walkaway
If Biden wins Harris will be president in no time soon, scary.
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t talk rationally, they don’t like it much.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh I know, the years of lies and manipulation from the media made them think that way, thank God many blacks and Latinos are waking up. #walkaway
If Biden wins Harris will be president in no time soon, scary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is my main concern also, Harris. Really don’t like her at all.
Both sides manipulate thronging the media, both have their narratives both have their lies. What I simply can’t stand is that people all of a sudden have lost the ability to see this happening on both sides, just because they hate Donald Trump and love reading The New York Times.
A prime example is Trump taking about good people on both sides. I’d surmise that lots of on here will just be incensed that Trump said that after reading the Washington Post:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/08/very-fine-people-charlottesville-who-were-they-2/%3foutputType=amp
"With those words, the president of the United States assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it," Biden said.
Then let’s look at what Trump actually said, a full quote perhaps?
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/
Same thing happens to the Dems but people only see Trumps lies for some reason.
For those who can’t be bothered to read the full transcript:
The day of that incident Trump said, “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.” Trump said he had spoken to Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, and “we agreed that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection — really — and I say this so strongly — true affection for each other.
Reporter, Aug. 15, 2017: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides …
Trump: Well, I do think there’s blame – yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.
Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. …
Trump: Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo — and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. …
It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 20 minutes ago
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient. In the last year national debt has seen its largest rise, GDP has seen its sharpest fall and the US deficit has increased massively. All while tensions within the nation have increased through a President who is incredibly divisive and hundreds of thousands have died in a pandemic that he still doesnt take seriously.
I'm sure something Biden said 30 years ago, something Obama did or Biden slipping up in a speech (as if Trump is coherent) will be your response; but the fact anyone tries to draw some sort of equivalency between them and Trump to defend him says a lot about them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try reading through the thread first Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read through the thread. You have discounted Trump's handling of the economy during Covid, you refer back to quotes made by Biden decades ago, you bring up Biden slipping up in speeches. Or do you deny all of that and want me to find all the quotes?
This is typical of your strategy on any of these threads. When someone refers to something you have claimed in a negative, you pretend they cannot read and that you are the only one who is rational.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 20 minutes ago
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient. In the last year national debt has seen its largest rise, GDP has seen its sharpest fall and the US deficit has increased massively. All while tensions within the nation have increased through a President who is incredibly divisive and hundreds of thousands have died in a pandemic that he still doesnt take seriously.
I'm sure something Biden said 30 years ago, something Obama did or Biden slipping up in a speech (as if Trump is coherent) will be your response; but the fact anyone tries to draw some sort of equivalency between them and Trump to defend him says a lot about them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try reading through the thread first Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read through the thread. You have discounted Trump's handling of the economy during Covid, you refer back to quotes made by Biden decades ago, you bring up Biden slipping up in speeches. Or do you deny all of that and want me to find all the quotes?
This is typical of your strategy on any of these threads. When someone refers to something you have claimed in a negative, you pretend they cannot read and that you are the only one who is rational.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Tam - what policies did Trump enforce during covid? Were they nationally enforced policies or state enforced policies?
If you had read the thread properly you would see that VC claimed that Trump doubled the debt in one term which has been shown to be incorrect. He claimed that it was his policies, “the tax ones” which has also been shown to be incorrect. The jump in debt has been shown to be roughly in line with historical jumps. VC started saying one thing and then the next, then the next and by the end of it it boiled down to 1.16tn average to 1.008tn by Obama. Now it’s down to his handling of the Covid-19 virus which purely down to his handling, has led to massive amounts of borrowing.
If someone labels Trump corrupt they back that up by providing evidence from years ago. I posit that Biden is also corrupt and provide evidence from years ago. Where’s the problem?
If Trump’s handling of covid and his policies are the main factors for the huge increase in debt in 2020 then you will no doubt find it easy to point to them, won’t you? And as RR asked me to with regards to Biden’s corruption; be precise.
Moan about my supposed strategies as much as you want but if you write one thing and mean something else then that’s on you. I demonstrated this to you just yesterday.
Either way I look forward to reading which specific policies Trump put in place that directly affected the amount needing to be borrowed due to COVID-19.
It’s as rudimentary as it would be to look at Obama’s debt increase just after the financial crisis and then say ‘look look guys, bad Obama, bad Obama’.
The floor is yours senator.
What Vidicschin has said about doubling the debt is irrelevant to you ignoring Covid when discussing his economic performance. I have never mentioned doubling the debt, only that you are ignoring the current state of the economy when making your assessments.
So you don't see any correlation with allowing the virus to run out of control (his only strategy was to fully re-open the economy which saw huge surges in cases in the first states to open and led to longer shutdowns elsewhere) and there being the sharpest ever GDP decrease, huge debt increase, the largest ever deficit increase and unemployment being at 7.9%; which is the highest for any sitting president at the time of reelection going back to at least 1948?
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I literally just mentioned his policy to ignore the virus and open up; causing surges in cases and longer lock downs in other states.
Perhaps you should read again and then also answer my question about whether you see no correlation or why it is ok to ignore the current state of the economy when it has had the sharpest GDP decrease and largest deficit increase in its recorded history.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. Perhaps you should tell me what I have written and how that is different to what I meant; given you are an expert on these matters.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah so now it’s his influence not his policies? I’m the one shifting? 😂
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah so now it’s his influence not his policies? I’m the one shifting? 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His policies influence state policies. Like I said; into semantics again because you can't support your own argument now you need to discredit the other poster. You started to delve into insults again too; apparently I 'whine like a little girl now'.
I still remember when you said you were accepting of other opinions.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. Perhaps you should tell me what I have written and how that is different to what I meant; given you are an expert on these matters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy:
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
......
His policies have doubled the US Debt in one term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is where you started VC, just so you know.
So it’s doubled the debt in one term 19.5 to 23 and 1.16 compared to 1.008.
Nice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient
——————————————-
This has now changed to influence.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. Perhaps you should tell me what I have written and how that is different to what I meant; given you are an expert on these matters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy:
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
......
His policies have doubled the US Debt in one term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is where you started VC, just so you know.
So it’s doubled the debt in one term 19.5 to 23 and 1.16 compared to 1.008.
Nice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient
——————————————-
This has now changed to influence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See above.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah so now it’s his influence not his policies? I’m the one shifting? 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His policies influence state policies. Like I said; into semantics again because you can't support your own argument now you need to discredit the other poster. You started to delve into insults again too; apparently I 'whine like a little girl now'.
I still remember when you said you were accepting of other opinions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What policies Tam? I’m still waiting for these policies.
I can’t support my own argument? Lol you cannot list a single policy that Donald Trump carried through.
First it’s his covid policies that increased the national debt, then it’s his influence, now it’s his policies that influenced individual states as to their policy of dealing with covid. And I’m shifting? 😂
I’m not even making an argument, VC did and you are. I’m merely asking you to justify it with specifics and you can’t.
Let’s look at New York for a moment, one of the most important states in the country for various reasons. Do you know what Bill De Blasio was coming out with about COVID-19 at the beginning of the year where people like you would advocate that lockdown should have started? Here’s a hint, he was downplaying it a lot.
I said his covid policies have a direct correlation with the increase in national debt. I have posted why several times. You just ignore it and pretend I am not posting anything. You haven't posted once why they have no correlation or addressed any of the points I have raised; you have only looked to discredit me by going into semantics and deliberately misinterpreting what I have said.
I'm not sure why you are conflating me with Vidicschin. We are two separate posters and I have never commented on what he said; only replied to you ignoring the current economic situation in your posts.
I am going to leave this here; as once again you have proven yourself a complete waste of time to debate with. Keep thinking you are accepting of other opinions though.
RR made several points yesterday, I replied with a point of my own (that Biden was also corrupt and that RR should he be included that also) and RR questioned me for precise specifics, told me not to rely on Fox News and Breitbart as some form of dig. I then replied with three clear examples of corruption with a multitude of sources cited.
I’m doing the same to you as RR did to me and you’re not able to answer with anything other than vague assertions.
Sign in if you want to comment
Trump.
Page 11 of 16
12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
posted on 3/11/20
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 7 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 8 minutes ago
The national debt has almost increased in the same amount in 4 years under Trump than the 8 years under Obama.
2008 - $10,024.72 Billion
2016 - $19,573.45 Billion
2020 - $26,945.39 Billion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you show, the debt doubled under Obama, ie he borrowed more than every single POTUS that went before him.
Prior to the germ, along with a global lockdown, US debt was around $23 trillion. It would have needed to be around $30 trillion (minus Covid) currently for your point to stand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well even if you ignore Covid, which if you do that then you should really ignore the financial crisis Obama also had to deal with, it's still $4 trillion in 3 years for Trump compared to $9.5 trillion in 8 years for Obama which is essentially the same rate.
Obama: $1.2 trillion a year
Trump: $1.3 trillion a year
So I think it's your original point that Obama handled the debt way worse than Trump that doesn't stand.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t talk rationally, they don’t like it much.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 7 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 8 minutes ago
The national debt has almost increased in the same amount in 4 years under Trump than the 8 years under Obama.
2008 - $10,024.72 Billion
2016 - $19,573.45 Billion
2020 - $26,945.39 Billion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you show, the debt doubled under Obama, ie he borrowed more than every single POTUS that went before him.
Prior to the germ, along with a global lockdown, US debt was around $23 trillion. It would have needed to be around $30 trillion (minus Covid) currently for your point to stand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well even if you ignore Covid, which if you do that then you should really ignore the financial crisis Obama also had to deal with, it's still $4 trillion in 3 years for Trump compared to $9.5 trillion in 8 years for Obama which is essentially the same rate.
Obama: $1.2 trillion a year
Trump: $1.3 trillion a year
So I think it's your original point that Obama handled the debt way worse than Trump that doesn't stand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed it’s 1.16tn vs 1.008tn (Trump then Obama and going off the last six years of Obama to mitigate the financial crisis) so it’s similar for both and nowhere near double in one term that VC claimed.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t talk rationally, they don’t like it much.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh I know, the years of lies and manipulation from the media made them think that way, thank God many blacks and Latinos are waking up. #walkaway
If Biden wins Harris will be president in no time soon, scary.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Miss Me With That Nonsense (U8398)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 36 minutes ago
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Donald Trump.
........
His handling of the Pandemic being the main one. And it hasn't helped his economic outlook.
Polls have Biden slightly ahead in (last week) who the public trust to get the economy back on track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US don't work like other countries where they control the actions of how the states deal with situations like this pandemic. The state leaders control it not the president and most were bad.
38% of deaths* (New York times) came from nursing home errors mainly in New York and Michigan. The decisions directly from the governors from those states.
I would like to know which policies he did made the covid response worse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t talk rationally, they don’t like it much.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh I know, the years of lies and manipulation from the media made them think that way, thank God many blacks and Latinos are waking up. #walkaway
If Biden wins Harris will be president in no time soon, scary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is my main concern also, Harris. Really don’t like her at all.
Both sides manipulate thronging the media, both have their narratives both have their lies. What I simply can’t stand is that people all of a sudden have lost the ability to see this happening on both sides, just because they hate Donald Trump and love reading The New York Times.
A prime example is Trump taking about good people on both sides. I’d surmise that lots of on here will just be incensed that Trump said that after reading the Washington Post:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/08/very-fine-people-charlottesville-who-were-they-2/%3foutputType=amp
"With those words, the president of the United States assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it," Biden said.
Then let’s look at what Trump actually said, a full quote perhaps?
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/
Same thing happens to the Dems but people only see Trumps lies for some reason.
posted on 3/11/20
For those who can’t be bothered to read the full transcript:
The day of that incident Trump said, “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.” Trump said he had spoken to Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, and “we agreed that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection — really — and I say this so strongly — true affection for each other.
Reporter, Aug. 15, 2017: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides …
Trump: Well, I do think there’s blame – yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.
Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. …
Trump: Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo — and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. …
It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 20 minutes ago
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient. In the last year national debt has seen its largest rise, GDP has seen its sharpest fall and the US deficit has increased massively. All while tensions within the nation have increased through a President who is incredibly divisive and hundreds of thousands have died in a pandemic that he still doesnt take seriously.
I'm sure something Biden said 30 years ago, something Obama did or Biden slipping up in a speech (as if Trump is coherent) will be your response; but the fact anyone tries to draw some sort of equivalency between them and Trump to defend him says a lot about them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try reading through the thread first Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read through the thread. You have discounted Trump's handling of the economy during Covid, you refer back to quotes made by Biden decades ago, you bring up Biden slipping up in speeches. Or do you deny all of that and want me to find all the quotes?
This is typical of your strategy on any of these threads. When someone refers to something you have claimed in a negative, you pretend they cannot read and that you are the only one who is rational.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 20 minutes ago
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient. In the last year national debt has seen its largest rise, GDP has seen its sharpest fall and the US deficit has increased massively. All while tensions within the nation have increased through a President who is incredibly divisive and hundreds of thousands have died in a pandemic that he still doesnt take seriously.
I'm sure something Biden said 30 years ago, something Obama did or Biden slipping up in a speech (as if Trump is coherent) will be your response; but the fact anyone tries to draw some sort of equivalency between them and Trump to defend him says a lot about them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try reading through the thread first Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read through the thread. You have discounted Trump's handling of the economy during Covid, you refer back to quotes made by Biden decades ago, you bring up Biden slipping up in speeches. Or do you deny all of that and want me to find all the quotes?
This is typical of your strategy on any of these threads. When someone refers to something you have claimed in a negative, you pretend they cannot read and that you are the only one who is rational.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Tam - what policies did Trump enforce during covid? Were they nationally enforced policies or state enforced policies?
If you had read the thread properly you would see that VC claimed that Trump doubled the debt in one term which has been shown to be incorrect. He claimed that it was his policies, “the tax ones” which has also been shown to be incorrect. The jump in debt has been shown to be roughly in line with historical jumps. VC started saying one thing and then the next, then the next and by the end of it it boiled down to 1.16tn average to 1.008tn by Obama. Now it’s down to his handling of the Covid-19 virus which purely down to his handling, has led to massive amounts of borrowing.
If someone labels Trump corrupt they back that up by providing evidence from years ago. I posit that Biden is also corrupt and provide evidence from years ago. Where’s the problem?
If Trump’s handling of covid and his policies are the main factors for the huge increase in debt in 2020 then you will no doubt find it easy to point to them, won’t you? And as RR asked me to with regards to Biden’s corruption; be precise.
Moan about my supposed strategies as much as you want but if you write one thing and mean something else then that’s on you. I demonstrated this to you just yesterday.
Either way I look forward to reading which specific policies Trump put in place that directly affected the amount needing to be borrowed due to COVID-19.
It’s as rudimentary as it would be to look at Obama’s debt increase just after the financial crisis and then say ‘look look guys, bad Obama, bad Obama’.
The floor is yours senator.
posted on 3/11/20
What Vidicschin has said about doubling the debt is irrelevant to you ignoring Covid when discussing his economic performance. I have never mentioned doubling the debt, only that you are ignoring the current state of the economy when making your assessments.
So you don't see any correlation with allowing the virus to run out of control (his only strategy was to fully re-open the economy which saw huge surges in cases in the first states to open and led to longer shutdowns elsewhere) and there being the sharpest ever GDP decrease, huge debt increase, the largest ever deficit increase and unemployment being at 7.9%; which is the highest for any sitting president at the time of reelection going back to at least 1948?
posted on 3/11/20
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
posted on 3/11/20
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I literally just mentioned his policy to ignore the virus and open up; causing surges in cases and longer lock downs in other states.
Perhaps you should read again and then also answer my question about whether you see no correlation or why it is ok to ignore the current state of the economy when it has had the sharpest GDP decrease and largest deficit increase in its recorded history.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. Perhaps you should tell me what I have written and how that is different to what I meant; given you are an expert on these matters.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah so now it’s his influence not his policies? I’m the one shifting? 😂
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah so now it’s his influence not his policies? I’m the one shifting? 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His policies influence state policies. Like I said; into semantics again because you can't support your own argument now you need to discredit the other poster. You started to delve into insults again too; apparently I 'whine like a little girl now'.
I still remember when you said you were accepting of other opinions.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. Perhaps you should tell me what I have written and how that is different to what I meant; given you are an expert on these matters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy:
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
......
His policies have doubled the US Debt in one term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is where you started VC, just so you know.
So it’s doubled the debt in one term 19.5 to 23 and 1.16 compared to 1.008.
Nice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient
——————————————-
This has now changed to influence.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 6 minutes ago
I also find it ironic that you tell me I ' write one thing and mean something else'; when in actually fact I have written exactly what I mean, you have just tried to turn it into something else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like yesterday Tam? When you said two different things and then accused me of just using semantics as my strategy? Words means something Tam.
The same thing happened yesterday with a question RR asked, I incorrectly answered a different question by mistake, both he and GT pointed out that he was asking about a candidate not a president. My response? “Fair enough” and then answered the question RR was actually posing. I didn’t whine like a little girl like you are and moan about semantics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. Perhaps you should tell me what I have written and how that is different to what I meant; given you are an expert on these matters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy:
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
......
His policies have doubled the US Debt in one term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is where you started VC, just so you know.
So it’s doubled the debt in one term 19.5 to 23 and 1.16 compared to 1.008.
Nice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't just ignore his policies during Covid and the additional national debt because its inconvenient
——————————————-
This has now changed to influence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See above.
posted on 3/11/20
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
So no specific policies then? Very good Tam.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual states decide whether to lockdown or not Tam, not Donald Trump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that. He encouraged them to reopen before they were under control. The ones that did first saw surges in cases. This caused others to lockdown for longer periods than they perhaps had to, following seeing what happened in those cases. It would also have caused economic impact in those states which saw the surge in cases.
Why do you ignore his influence on this? Is it because its convenient to shift any blame?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah so now it’s his influence not his policies? I’m the one shifting? 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His policies influence state policies. Like I said; into semantics again because you can't support your own argument now you need to discredit the other poster. You started to delve into insults again too; apparently I 'whine like a little girl now'.
I still remember when you said you were accepting of other opinions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What policies Tam? I’m still waiting for these policies.
I can’t support my own argument? Lol you cannot list a single policy that Donald Trump carried through.
First it’s his covid policies that increased the national debt, then it’s his influence, now it’s his policies that influenced individual states as to their policy of dealing with covid. And I’m shifting? 😂
I’m not even making an argument, VC did and you are. I’m merely asking you to justify it with specifics and you can’t.
posted on 3/11/20
Let’s look at New York for a moment, one of the most important states in the country for various reasons. Do you know what Bill De Blasio was coming out with about COVID-19 at the beginning of the year where people like you would advocate that lockdown should have started? Here’s a hint, he was downplaying it a lot.
posted on 3/11/20
I said his covid policies have a direct correlation with the increase in national debt. I have posted why several times. You just ignore it and pretend I am not posting anything. You haven't posted once why they have no correlation or addressed any of the points I have raised; you have only looked to discredit me by going into semantics and deliberately misinterpreting what I have said.
I'm not sure why you are conflating me with Vidicschin. We are two separate posters and I have never commented on what he said; only replied to you ignoring the current economic situation in your posts.
I am going to leave this here; as once again you have proven yourself a complete waste of time to debate with. Keep thinking you are accepting of other opinions though.
posted on 3/11/20
RR made several points yesterday, I replied with a point of my own (that Biden was also corrupt and that RR should he be included that also) and RR questioned me for precise specifics, told me not to rely on Fox News and Breitbart as some form of dig. I then replied with three clear examples of corruption with a multitude of sources cited.
I’m doing the same to you as RR did to me and you’re not able to answer with anything other than vague assertions.
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