comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 43 seconds ago
a 3 game ban may be considered harsh given the context but the whole point of a punishment is that it should deter people from making the same mistakes.
At the end of the day, people can use racist terminology and it can be meant as a term of endearment but it is still racist.
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
It should be the same for Cavani hear. It's sad an unfortunate but its 2020, we need to stamp out this kind of ignorance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK fair enough
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 43 seconds ago
a 3 game ban may be considered harsh given the context but the whole point of a punishment is that it should deter people from making the same mistakes.
At the end of the day, people can use racist terminology and it can be meant as a term of endearment but it is still racist.
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
It should be the same for Cavani hear. It's sad an unfortunate but its 2020, we need to stamp out this kind of ignorance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you added that last point or it might have got a bit confusing and there might have been a 400-comment thread arguing about it.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the same as the word 'coloured' or 'negro' not necessarily intended to be derogatory but outdated because it implies that the subject is 'abnormal'. I doubt the is an equivalent for white people in this language for example.
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
come on, he said it was a spelling error...i assume he meant to write "a blackie" or similar.
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's already explained that was a typo though and amended it to "black person". Genuine error and nothing more.
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the same as the word 'coloured' or 'negro' not necessarily intended to be derogatory but outdated because it implies that the subject is 'abnormal'. I doubt the is an equivalent for white people in this language for example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the FA are punishing him because they've deemed this outdated in Uruguay?
Where is there evidence of that, out of interest?
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm black myself and already admitted it was a grammatical mistake. I do not think it is the same at all because if you look at the context of what I'm saying and the fact that I'm black myself you would find it very hard to find anything racist in what I've said.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the same as the word 'coloured' or 'negro' not necessarily intended to be derogatory but outdated because it implies that the subject is 'abnormal'. I doubt the is an equivalent for white people in this language for example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the FA are punishing him because they've deemed this outdated in Uruguay?
Where is there evidence of that, out of interest?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've made my points clearly in all of my posts above with examples to make it easy for you. I don't need to go any deeper. If you don't get it by now, that's OK. I can't force you to agree or understand. It's my opinion and I know I'm not going to change your mind.
The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
There was me thinking that a forum was for discussion.
Thanks for the patronising comment, but I understand it just fine, thanks.
Perhaps you can caveat your posts with whether it's a point for discussion or whether an announcement that needs no reply.
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm black myself and already admitted it was a grammatical mistake. I do not think it is the same at all because if you look at the context of what I'm saying and the fact that I'm black myself you would find it very hard to find anything racist in what I've said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly. And that is my point
I know he is not racists because of the context of this discussion. Just like we all know cavani use of the term negrito is an affectionate use of the word because of the context. I wasn't implying you were racists but that people can make mistakes
I think that one reason to be careful is that, while context matters a lot, rules can't really be in put to place to monitor for that. If it's not written explicitly what does, and doesn't qualify for punishment, then you'll always be leaving it to the subjective view of whoever is reviewing it.
I think that most people would agree that a 3 game ban would be excessive, we also have to have rules that are relatively straight forward to apply.
I do think that the argument that he's Uruguayan speaking Spanish isn't a particularly good one. He must be aware that he is under the supervision of the English FA and it's their rules that matter. It's left entirely to a specific player under the governance of the FA that it's up to them to make sure that they comply.
For example, if Rashford at the age 16 had a video of him smoking weed or something, according to the FA rules, they would be entitled to punish him for it.
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
for a bit more context. The FA punished Suarez not because he used negrito but because he failed to convince that his use of the term was affectionate.
I doubt cavani will have any problem convincing anyone that he was using the term affectionatelty when saying thanks to a fan congratulating him.
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but in the real world we also have people who are actually qualified to be making judgements based on contexts. This is more akin to an employment tribunal or disciplinary rather than a criminal or civil law.
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but in the real world we also have people who are actually qualified to be making judgements based on contexts. This is more akin to an employment tribunal or disciplinary rather than a criminal or civil law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, and this is why there is a problem with the FA getting involved in something that actually, is outside of their remit i.e. social media.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about the sum of it to be honest. Given that it's a players' responsibility to understand all of this stuff, the clubs definitely could do more to help them.
It's interesting (though probably not relevant) that the 3 main issues that are cited, Suarez, Silva & Cavani are Spanish speakers
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about the sum of it to be honest. Given that it's a players' responsibility to understand all of this stuff, the clubs definitely could do more to help them.
It's interesting (though probably not relevant) that the 3 main issues that are cited, Suarez, Silva & Cavani are Spanish speakers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't Bernado Silva be a Portuguese speaker?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but in the real world we also have people who are actually qualified to be making judgements based on contexts. This is more akin to an employment tribunal or disciplinary rather than a criminal or civil law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, and this is why there is a problem with the FA getting involved in something that actually, is outside of their remit i.e. social media.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At the same time, if the FA aren't involved and there's genuine abuse - how do they govern that?
For example a player is properly racist on Twitter, ok Twitter can ban their account, they'll likely receive some kind of fine rather than any kind of prison sentence from the government. Do the FA or club just fine them too? There does need to be some guidelines about player suspensions.
I've no idea what the right answer to the question is. As long as there is subjectivity, there'll be generally people unqualified making those decisions, and there will always be public backlash regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
The easiest thing to do it make it a zero tolerance policy and put the flexibility on the punishment itself which you can then apply context to.
I don't think that there a right or wrong answer to it.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about the sum of it to be honest. Given that it's a players' responsibility to understand all of this stuff, the clubs definitely could do more to help them.
It's interesting (though probably not relevant) that the 3 main issues that are cited, Suarez, Silva & Cavani are Spanish speakers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't Bernado Silva be a Portuguese speaker?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but it's reasonably similar to Spanish so he got lumped in with it in my mind
Sign in if you want to comment
Cavani Tweet
Page 17 of 24
18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
posted on 30/11/20
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 43 seconds ago
a 3 game ban may be considered harsh given the context but the whole point of a punishment is that it should deter people from making the same mistakes.
At the end of the day, people can use racist terminology and it can be meant as a term of endearment but it is still racist.
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
It should be the same for Cavani hear. It's sad an unfortunate but its 2020, we need to stamp out this kind of ignorance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK fair enough
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 43 seconds ago
a 3 game ban may be considered harsh given the context but the whole point of a punishment is that it should deter people from making the same mistakes.
At the end of the day, people can use racist terminology and it can be meant as a term of endearment but it is still racist.
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
It should be the same for Cavani hear. It's sad an unfortunate but its 2020, we need to stamp out this kind of ignorance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you added that last point or it might have got a bit confusing and there might have been a 400-comment thread arguing about it.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the same as the word 'coloured' or 'negro' not necessarily intended to be derogatory but outdated because it implies that the subject is 'abnormal'. I doubt the is an equivalent for white people in this language for example.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
come on, he said it was a spelling error...i assume he meant to write "a blackie" or similar.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's already explained that was a typo though and amended it to "black person". Genuine error and nothing more.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the same as the word 'coloured' or 'negro' not necessarily intended to be derogatory but outdated because it implies that the subject is 'abnormal'. I doubt the is an equivalent for white people in this language for example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the FA are punishing him because they've deemed this outdated in Uruguay?
Where is there evidence of that, out of interest?
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm black myself and already admitted it was a grammatical mistake. I do not think it is the same at all because if you look at the context of what I'm saying and the fact that I'm black myself you would find it very hard to find anything racist in what I've said.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
absolute bs
Negrito is a spanish word. So the english rules do not apply. To deem if it can be deemed racists or not you have to refer to the spabnish interpretation. The spanish interpretation is that it can be either affectionate or an insult depending on context.
In a context of an arguement it is an insult, in the context of saying thank you to someone it is clearly affectionate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the same as the word 'coloured' or 'negro' not necessarily intended to be derogatory but outdated because it implies that the subject is 'abnormal'. I doubt the is an equivalent for white people in this language for example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So the FA are punishing him because they've deemed this outdated in Uruguay?
Where is there evidence of that, out of interest?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've made my points clearly in all of my posts above with examples to make it easy for you. I don't need to go any deeper. If you don't get it by now, that's OK. I can't force you to agree or understand. It's my opinion and I know I'm not going to change your mind.
posted on 30/11/20
The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
There was me thinking that a forum was for discussion.
Thanks for the patronising comment, but I understand it just fine, thanks.
Perhaps you can caveat your posts with whether it's a point for discussion or whether an announcement that needs no reply.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by The Gentleman Entrepreneur (U13709)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 7 seconds ago
If a blackwas a guest in Cavani's home country they would have to abide by the culture and the laws of that country the same as the home citizens.
_______________
I'm not sure we're really supposed to use "black" as a noun anymore...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly a spelling error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was checking. It's not that clear if a whole word is missing. Understood now though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the irony of some one saying cavani should be punished for using negrito an affectionate spanish word to thank a fan calling black people, "a black"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm black myself and already admitted it was a grammatical mistake. I do not think it is the same at all because if you look at the context of what I'm saying and the fact that I'm black myself you would find it very hard to find anything racist in what I've said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly. And that is my point
I know he is not racists because of the context of this discussion. Just like we all know cavani use of the term negrito is an affectionate use of the word because of the context. I wasn't implying you were racists but that people can make mistakes
posted on 30/11/20
I think that one reason to be careful is that, while context matters a lot, rules can't really be in put to place to monitor for that. If it's not written explicitly what does, and doesn't qualify for punishment, then you'll always be leaving it to the subjective view of whoever is reviewing it.
I think that most people would agree that a 3 game ban would be excessive, we also have to have rules that are relatively straight forward to apply.
I do think that the argument that he's Uruguayan speaking Spanish isn't a particularly good one. He must be aware that he is under the supervision of the English FA and it's their rules that matter. It's left entirely to a specific player under the governance of the FA that it's up to them to make sure that they comply.
For example, if Rashford at the age 16 had a video of him smoking weed or something, according to the FA rules, they would be entitled to punish him for it.
posted on 30/11/20
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
posted on 30/11/20
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
posted on 30/11/20
for a bit more context. The FA punished Suarez not because he used negrito but because he failed to convince that his use of the term was affectionate.
I doubt cavani will have any problem convincing anyone that he was using the term affectionatelty when saying thanks to a fan congratulating him.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but in the real world we also have people who are actually qualified to be making judgements based on contexts. This is more akin to an employment tribunal or disciplinary rather than a criminal or civil law.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but in the real world we also have people who are actually qualified to be making judgements based on contexts. This is more akin to an employment tribunal or disciplinary rather than a criminal or civil law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, and this is why there is a problem with the FA getting involved in something that actually, is outside of their remit i.e. social media.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about the sum of it to be honest. Given that it's a players' responsibility to understand all of this stuff, the clubs definitely could do more to help them.
It's interesting (though probably not relevant) that the 3 main issues that are cited, Suarez, Silva & Cavani are Spanish speakers
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about the sum of it to be honest. Given that it's a players' responsibility to understand all of this stuff, the clubs definitely could do more to help them.
It's interesting (though probably not relevant) that the 3 main issues that are cited, Suarez, Silva & Cavani are Spanish speakers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't Bernado Silva be a Portuguese speaker?
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Jay. (U16498)
Don't agree with that - because the law in this country makes room for subjectivity.
The problem is the FA are dealing in issues they're not qualified to handle and they've started to lose control.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but in the real world we also have people who are actually qualified to be making judgements based on contexts. This is more akin to an employment tribunal or disciplinary rather than a criminal or civil law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, and this is why there is a problem with the FA getting involved in something that actually, is outside of their remit i.e. social media.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At the same time, if the FA aren't involved and there's genuine abuse - how do they govern that?
For example a player is properly racist on Twitter, ok Twitter can ban their account, they'll likely receive some kind of fine rather than any kind of prison sentence from the government. Do the FA or club just fine them too? There does need to be some guidelines about player suspensions.
I've no idea what the right answer to the question is. As long as there is subjectivity, there'll be generally people unqualified making those decisions, and there will always be public backlash regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
The easiest thing to do it make it a zero tolerance policy and put the flexibility on the punishment itself which you can then apply context to.
I don't think that there a right or wrong answer to it.
posted on 30/11/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jay. (U16498)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 2 minutes ago
Jay you make a great point about subjectiveness.
But punishing someone when it is clear cut that he was using the term in endearment which is widely acceptable in any spanish speaking country actually does more harm to the cause.
A solution to avoid future issues is if the FA were to explicitly state the use of negrito is racists regardless of context like the use of the N-word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
Why is there no forward thinking on this?
Issue clubs and agents with some guidelines for players when they join the league, including words that are considered insulting and offensive in this country?
Social media class for an hour at the start of every season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about the sum of it to be honest. Given that it's a players' responsibility to understand all of this stuff, the clubs definitely could do more to help them.
It's interesting (though probably not relevant) that the 3 main issues that are cited, Suarez, Silva & Cavani are Spanish speakers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't Bernado Silva be a Portuguese speaker?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but it's reasonably similar to Spanish so he got lumped in with it in my mind
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