We shouldn't be this bad, but we are. So we have to work from there instead of looking to paper over the cracks.
Orbinho
If you took results and created a league table since Mesut Ozil was excluded from the Premier League squads, Arsenal would be second bottom, ahead of Sheffield United
-----------
Football reasons. You know..
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 53 seconds ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's not an 8 year old learning what goalposts are. The issue is psychological.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
really what do you think they do all week? its their job to practice again and again which defender goes where.
the real problem is when you play 3 at the back defenders leave it to each other and don't take responsibility. its why i hate the formation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think they're not doing all week? Performance errors are their own thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I used to watch george graham coach when i was kid. he spent hours and hours just drilling defenders. rope around the waist.
I honestly think arteta and his coaches are not up to it.
It could be. Steve Round has a terrible track record. But, tbh, we looked defensively excellent at the start of the season and for much of last season. Something has been lost along the way and I don't think Arteta is suddenly having them watch videos of Mustafi, Cygan, Silvestre and Squillacci.
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 2 minutes ago
We shouldn't be this bad, but we are. So we have to work from there instead of looking to paper over the cracks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Getting rid of Arteta and Edu would not 'paper over the cracks'.
We have some decent talent at this club. Maybe not top-4 worthy, but certainly talented enough to be higher than where they are now.
They don't believe in the manager or the coaches anymore otherwise they wouldn't be this low in the league.
Could be. But they were terrible under Emery, Ljungberg and Wenger, too. Something is rotten, regardless of the manager.
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 18 minutes ago
We deserved a point today. Given the players we are missing including Auba/Partey/Gabriel for this one and up against a top 4 team away from home the players tried hard but Everton were jammy to get the first goal and the second was a gift too. I saw improvements in work rate, there was some fight there for Arteta and we looked a little better going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't Everton missing some of their better players?
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted less than a minute ago
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Emery is a perfectly decent coach. We were in freefall by the time he was sacked.
Arsenal has to go backwards to go forwards. The question is, how far back can we afford to go and is this the right path? I'm not sure about Arteta, but today was better.
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 20 seconds ago
It could be. Steve Round has a terrible track record. But, tbh, we looked defensively excellent at the start of the season and for much of last season. Something has been lost along the way and I don't think Arteta is suddenly having them watch videos of Mustafi, Cygan, Silvestre and Squillacci.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you have to be fair to the opposition. Arteta sort of fell into this formation last season and even then I felt it was too passive. But it was new and the players were enthusiastic. We fed off scraps and Auba was in great form. The goalkeeper (emi) was a very important component in that run.
We have been worked out and Auba has had a dip. A good manager would have readjusted. The fact we haven't sort of proved to me Arteta just doesn't have the acumen.
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 5 seconds ago
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you need to look at it beyond this one game in isolation. How can you justify keeping any manager in charge of Arsenal Football Club when we could conceivably be 17th-18th going into the New Year?
Whatever the perceived effort is, we're not seeing that translate to results and that is a huge issue when we're in such a vulnerable situation.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 20 seconds ago
It could be. Steve Round has a terrible track record. But, tbh, we looked defensively excellent at the start of the season and for much of last season. Something has been lost along the way and I don't think Arteta is suddenly having them watch videos of Mustafi, Cygan, Silvestre and Squillacci.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you have to be fair to the opposition. Arteta sort of fell into this formation last season and even then I felt it was too passive. But it was new and the players were enthusiastic. We fed off scraps and Auba was in great form. The goalkeeper (emi) was a very important component in that run.
We have been worked out and Auba has had a dip. A good manager would have readjusted. The fact we haven't sort of proved to me Arteta just doesn't have the acumen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could be right. I'm just saying today was better.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 3 minutes ago
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or Wenger was better than you thought 🤔
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A different type of manager is needed at a big club. The pressure and spotlight is immense. Arteta can't learn on the job like you can at a Championship club. Emery was destroyed at psg. And it was mistake to bring him in another high profile big ego dressing room.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 5 seconds ago
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you need to look at it beyond this one game in isolation. How can you justify keeping any manager in charge of Arsenal Football Club when we could conceivably be 17th-18th going into the New Year?
Whatever the perceived effort is, we're not seeing that translate to results and that is a huge issue when we're in such a vulnerable situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are actually in the relegation zone for a prolonged period and looking like we are going to go down then you have a point. The performance I saw today, given the players we are missing was not one of a team that's going to get relegated and we were unlucky to lose that imho.
I could well be wrong but I have not given up on Arteta yet, some things are frustrating but that's the sane with every manager apart from maybe Klopp & Guardiola and he is starting to change some of those things like dropping Bellerin and making subs before 70 mins etc
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 5 seconds ago
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you need to look at it beyond this one game in isolation. How can you justify keeping any manager in charge of Arsenal Football Club when we could conceivably be 17th-18th going into the New Year?
Whatever the perceived effort is, we're not seeing that translate to results and that is a huge issue when we're in such a vulnerable situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are actually in the relegation zone for a prolonged period and looking like we are going to go down then you have a point. The performance I saw today, given the players we are missing was not one of a team that's going to get relegated and we were unlucky to lose that imho.
I could well be wrong but I have not given up on Arteta yet, some things are frustrating but that's the sane with every manager apart from maybe Klopp & Guardiola and he is starting to change some of those things like dropping Bellerin and making subs before 70 mins etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the problem is if you leave it too late these players don't have the fight to get out of it. They are not used to relegation battles.
You can't just wait till its too late for any manager to affect change.
We'll have to see, YCBC, but if I woke up to the news that Arteta had been sacked, I don't think it'd be entirely unjustified.
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 30 minutes ago
Willian vs Everton.
0 shots on target
0 take-ons completed
0 successful crosses
0 duels won
Zero. Kreuzzeichen
And people telling me Pepe was worse
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What were Pepe’s stats?
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
It's a tough one guys and I understand your frustrations, I wouldn't be surprised if the club lost their nerve and sacked him but at what point do you stick to the long-term plans you 'keep making' in favour of short term fixes? So I wouldn't be surprised yet I would be surprised. The club have to provide the tools to succeed as well, if more money was available in the Summer do you honestly think we'd have ended up with Willian? That gamble only happened because it was what we could afford after Gabriel & Partey.
You’ve done this with Xhaka and Lacazette, GT. Constantly backing players who are massively underperforming without reason, and using other players’ poor performances as some sort of barometer for success. Why do you do it? Do you actually think Pepe is good enough for Arsenal or that his performances are acceptable?
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 9 seconds ago
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but at least you are trying. Better than do nothing and expect different results.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 9 seconds ago
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but at least you are trying. Better than do nothing and expect different results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can be, really it's down to the players isn't it?
I mean, if they fight for Arteta and still believe in him (which I do believe I saw today) then keep faith.
If they stop playing and we get hammered and completely outplayed then yeah you need to change manager for sure. But we weren't totally outplayed today, away fron home against a team that's just beaten Chelsea & Leicester (away), again individual errors cost us and I just don't think this performance or result is the one you sack him on.
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 9 seconds ago
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but at least you are trying. Better than do nothing and expect different results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can be, really it's down to the players isn't it?
I mean, if they fight for Arteta and still believe in him (which I do believe I saw today) then keep faith.
If they stop playing and we get hammered and completely outplayed then yeah you need to change manager for sure. But we weren't totally outplayed today, away fron home against a team that's just beaten Chelsea & Leicester (away), again individual errors cost us and I just don't think this performance or result is the one you sack him on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we have to be careful not to confuse possession with playing well.
In my opinion its become standard in the premier league this season to score and sit back trying to hit teams on the counter. It goes in cycles and Mourinho is popular again.
I think how you start is far more reflective of where we are and unless we score first its pretty much over. Even after we equalised and had the momentum we fell back into our old habits and conceded again. Similar thing happened against Southampton when Gabriel was sent off.
Sign in if you want to comment
Everton Vs Arsenal Live Match Thread
Page 28 of 29
25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29
posted on 19/12/20
We shouldn't be this bad, but we are. So we have to work from there instead of looking to paper over the cracks.
posted on 19/12/20
Orbinho
If you took results and created a league table since Mesut Ozil was excluded from the Premier League squads, Arsenal would be second bottom, ahead of Sheffield United
-----------
Football reasons. You know..
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 53 seconds ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's not an 8 year old learning what goalposts are. The issue is psychological.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
really what do you think they do all week? its their job to practice again and again which defender goes where.
the real problem is when you play 3 at the back defenders leave it to each other and don't take responsibility. its why i hate the formation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think they're not doing all week? Performance errors are their own thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I used to watch george graham coach when i was kid. he spent hours and hours just drilling defenders. rope around the waist.
I honestly think arteta and his coaches are not up to it.
posted on 19/12/20
It could be. Steve Round has a terrible track record. But, tbh, we looked defensively excellent at the start of the season and for much of last season. Something has been lost along the way and I don't think Arteta is suddenly having them watch videos of Mustafi, Cygan, Silvestre and Squillacci.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 2 minutes ago
We shouldn't be this bad, but we are. So we have to work from there instead of looking to paper over the cracks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Getting rid of Arteta and Edu would not 'paper over the cracks'.
We have some decent talent at this club. Maybe not top-4 worthy, but certainly talented enough to be higher than where they are now.
They don't believe in the manager or the coaches anymore otherwise they wouldn't be this low in the league.
posted on 19/12/20
Could be. But they were terrible under Emery, Ljungberg and Wenger, too. Something is rotten, regardless of the manager.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 18 minutes ago
We deserved a point today. Given the players we are missing including Auba/Partey/Gabriel for this one and up against a top 4 team away from home the players tried hard but Everton were jammy to get the first goal and the second was a gift too. I saw improvements in work rate, there was some fight there for Arteta and we looked a little better going forward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't Everton missing some of their better players?
posted on 19/12/20
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
posted on 19/12/20
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted less than a minute ago
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Emery is a perfectly decent coach. We were in freefall by the time he was sacked.
Arsenal has to go backwards to go forwards. The question is, how far back can we afford to go and is this the right path? I'm not sure about Arteta, but today was better.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 20 seconds ago
It could be. Steve Round has a terrible track record. But, tbh, we looked defensively excellent at the start of the season and for much of last season. Something has been lost along the way and I don't think Arteta is suddenly having them watch videos of Mustafi, Cygan, Silvestre and Squillacci.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you have to be fair to the opposition. Arteta sort of fell into this formation last season and even then I felt it was too passive. But it was new and the players were enthusiastic. We fed off scraps and Auba was in great form. The goalkeeper (emi) was a very important component in that run.
We have been worked out and Auba has had a dip. A good manager would have readjusted. The fact we haven't sort of proved to me Arteta just doesn't have the acumen.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 5 seconds ago
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you need to look at it beyond this one game in isolation. How can you justify keeping any manager in charge of Arsenal Football Club when we could conceivably be 17th-18th going into the New Year?
Whatever the perceived effort is, we're not seeing that translate to results and that is a huge issue when we're in such a vulnerable situation.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 20 seconds ago
It could be. Steve Round has a terrible track record. But, tbh, we looked defensively excellent at the start of the season and for much of last season. Something has been lost along the way and I don't think Arteta is suddenly having them watch videos of Mustafi, Cygan, Silvestre and Squillacci.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you have to be fair to the opposition. Arteta sort of fell into this formation last season and even then I felt it was too passive. But it was new and the players were enthusiastic. We fed off scraps and Auba was in great form. The goalkeeper (emi) was a very important component in that run.
We have been worked out and Auba has had a dip. A good manager would have readjusted. The fact we haven't sort of proved to me Arteta just doesn't have the acumen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could be right. I'm just saying today was better.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 3 minutes ago
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or Wenger was better than you thought 🤔
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
Or maybe Emery, Arteta and Ljungberg weren't good enough managers/head coaches either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A different type of manager is needed at a big club. The pressure and spotlight is immense. Arteta can't learn on the job like you can at a Championship club. Emery was destroyed at psg. And it was mistake to bring him in another high profile big ego dressing room.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 5 seconds ago
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you need to look at it beyond this one game in isolation. How can you justify keeping any manager in charge of Arsenal Football Club when we could conceivably be 17th-18th going into the New Year?
Whatever the perceived effort is, we're not seeing that translate to results and that is a huge issue when we're in such a vulnerable situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are actually in the relegation zone for a prolonged period and looking like we are going to go down then you have a point. The performance I saw today, given the players we are missing was not one of a team that's going to get relegated and we were unlucky to lose that imho.
I could well be wrong but I have not given up on Arteta yet, some things are frustrating but that's the sane with every manager apart from maybe Klopp & Guardiola and he is starting to change some of those things like dropping Bellerin and making subs before 70 mins etc
posted on 19/12/20
*same
posted on 19/12/20
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 5 seconds ago
That's not what I saw today, they didn't give up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you need to look at it beyond this one game in isolation. How can you justify keeping any manager in charge of Arsenal Football Club when we could conceivably be 17th-18th going into the New Year?
Whatever the perceived effort is, we're not seeing that translate to results and that is a huge issue when we're in such a vulnerable situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are actually in the relegation zone for a prolonged period and looking like we are going to go down then you have a point. The performance I saw today, given the players we are missing was not one of a team that's going to get relegated and we were unlucky to lose that imho.
I could well be wrong but I have not given up on Arteta yet, some things are frustrating but that's the sane with every manager apart from maybe Klopp & Guardiola and he is starting to change some of those things like dropping Bellerin and making subs before 70 mins etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the problem is if you leave it too late these players don't have the fight to get out of it. They are not used to relegation battles.
You can't just wait till its too late for any manager to affect change.
posted on 19/12/20
We'll have to see, YCBC, but if I woke up to the news that Arteta had been sacked, I don't think it'd be entirely unjustified.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 30 minutes ago
Willian vs Everton.
0 shots on target
0 take-ons completed
0 successful crosses
0 duels won
Zero. Kreuzzeichen
And people telling me Pepe was worse
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What were Pepe’s stats?
posted on 19/12/20
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
It's a tough one guys and I understand your frustrations, I wouldn't be surprised if the club lost their nerve and sacked him but at what point do you stick to the long-term plans you 'keep making' in favour of short term fixes? So I wouldn't be surprised yet I would be surprised. The club have to provide the tools to succeed as well, if more money was available in the Summer do you honestly think we'd have ended up with Willian? That gamble only happened because it was what we could afford after Gabriel & Partey.
posted on 19/12/20
You’ve done this with Xhaka and Lacazette, GT. Constantly backing players who are massively underperforming without reason, and using other players’ poor performances as some sort of barometer for success. Why do you do it? Do you actually think Pepe is good enough for Arsenal or that his performances are acceptable?
posted on 19/12/20
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 9 seconds ago
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but at least you are trying. Better than do nothing and expect different results.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 9 seconds ago
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but at least you are trying. Better than do nothing and expect different results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can be, really it's down to the players isn't it?
I mean, if they fight for Arteta and still believe in him (which I do believe I saw today) then keep faith.
If they stop playing and we get hammered and completely outplayed then yeah you need to change manager for sure. But we weren't totally outplayed today, away fron home against a team that's just beaten Chelsea & Leicester (away), again individual errors cost us and I just don't think this performance or result is the one you sack him on.
posted on 19/12/20
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by You Can't Buy Class - IDHT2EU (U12019)
posted 9 seconds ago
There are plenty of examples where clubs changed manager and still went down, it's not guaranteed survival.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but at least you are trying. Better than do nothing and expect different results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can be, really it's down to the players isn't it?
I mean, if they fight for Arteta and still believe in him (which I do believe I saw today) then keep faith.
If they stop playing and we get hammered and completely outplayed then yeah you need to change manager for sure. But we weren't totally outplayed today, away fron home against a team that's just beaten Chelsea & Leicester (away), again individual errors cost us and I just don't think this performance or result is the one you sack him on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we have to be careful not to confuse possession with playing well.
In my opinion its become standard in the premier league this season to score and sit back trying to hit teams on the counter. It goes in cycles and Mourinho is popular again.
I think how you start is far more reflective of where we are and unless we score first its pretty much over. Even after we equalised and had the momentum we fell back into our old habits and conceded again. Similar thing happened against Southampton when Gabriel was sent off.
Page 28 of 29
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