comment by RED666👺. (U6562)
posted 56 minutes ago
Hansaplast What a Shiite article!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why?
Comment deleted by Article Creator
OP's point is simply that when people die (for any reason) after having covid, it's classed as a covid death so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths'.
That proposition obviously raises uncomfortable questions for most of you so you're deflecting it with silly conspiracy talk.
Nobody is deflecting.
There isn't a vaccine on earth that hasn't caused people to die from side effects or adverse immune responses.
This vaccine is no different. It's not even news.
There's always risk attached to treatments and vaccines, but it is dwarfed by the risk of catching the actual sodding disease.
so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths
--------------------------------------
No, it absolutely shouldn't.
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
OP's point is simply that when people die (for any reason) after having covid, it's classed as a covid death so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths'.
That proposition obviously raises uncomfortable questions for most of you so you're deflecting it with silly conspiracy talk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be ridiculous.
People dying after having their toenails cut, a toenail death.
After a laxative a laxitive death.
It is recorded as a covid death as its almost certain it was the cause or a contributory factor.
It's not after a vaccine jab as its unlikely to have been the cause.
Jukebox: the point isn't that the vaccine caused the deaths, the OP is trying to highlight that the method of deciding what is and isn't a 'covid death' (i.e. any death within 28 days of a positive test) is massively flawed, and so applying this same logic to the vaccine means you have to conclude that they are 'vaccine deaths'. The idea that we've been fed incorrect figures for a year obviously troubles most people.
Bloodred: I'm just using the government's own flawed method, but no one seems concerned about that for some reason.
Mu52: Any death within 28 days of a positive test is a 'covid death' - don't you think that's a crazy way to measure how many are dying from covid? I think that's what the OP was trying to highlight.
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 15 minutes ago
Jukebox: the point isn't that the vaccine caused the deaths, the OP is trying to highlight that the method of deciding what is and isn't a 'covid death' (i.e. any death within 28 days of a positive test) is massively flawed, and so applying this same logic to the vaccine means you have to conclude that they are 'vaccine deaths'. The idea that we've been fed incorrect figures for a year obviously troubles most people.
Bloodred: I'm just using the government's own flawed method, but no one seems concerned about that for some reason.
Mu52: Any death within 28 days of a positive test is a 'covid death' - don't you think that's a crazy way to measure how many are dying from covid? I think that's what the OP was trying to highlight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I don't think it's crazy. They just count it as it is likely, and they don't want to do hundreds of autopsies every day.
This way gives us a handle on if cases are up or down, based on a reasonable assumption
Average time between contraction of covid and death is 21 days, that's why they have the 28 day rule.
Don't get me wrong as soon as a vaccine has been independently, objectively and scientifically tested and 'passed' I will be at front of queue making demands. But not until that happens. And that REALLY hasn't yet happened.
In the current climate of nationalist lunacy, assisted by the most corrupt residents of the palaces of Westminster & Whitehall EVER - and I've been watching and challenging them since the early 70s - and their lackies in the privately owned, corporate-funded mainstream media outlets - who are only concerned in defending their sociopathic/paranoid stance on the dangers of 'foreigners' - then trusting the spokespeople of any national government, corporation or media outlet would be as self destructive as any recent events have been. Not for me.
This is threat that has it's danger in the reality of the laws of science. My primary concern is those around me and myself. Want the best for everyone else as well, but I'm not prepared to risk what's most important because of the deceits, phobias or just plain stupidity of others.
There is a huge difference between paranoia and making rational decisions based on experience and acquired understandings (intelligence).
My point is, if you're on death's door and you go into hospital and then catch covid ala Captain Tom, you are recorded as a covid death regardless of the main reason. If covid is simply mentioned on your death certificate you are a 'covid death' even if you were on end of life care for something else.
It's a ridiculous way to measure the number of covid deaths and I don't know why more people aren't up in arms about it
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted 13 minutes ago
Don't get me wrong as soon as a vaccine has been independently, objectively and scientifically tested and 'passed' I will be at front of queue making demands. But not until that happens. And that REALLY hasn't yet happened.
In the current climate of nationalist lunacy, assisted by the most corrupt residents of the palaces of Westminster & Whitehall EVER - and I've been watching and challenging them since the early 70s - and their lackies in the privately owned, corporate-funded mainstream media outlets - who are only concerned in defending their sociopathic/paranoid stance on the dangers of 'foreigners' - then trusting the spokespeople of any national government, corporation or media outlet would be as self destructive as any recent events have been. Not for me.
This is threat that has it's danger in the reality of the laws of science. My primary concern is those around me and myself. Want the best for everyone else as well, but I'm not prepared to risk what's most important because of the deceits, phobias or just plain stupidity of others.
There is a huge difference between paranoia and making rational decisions based on experience and acquired understandings (intelligence).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As they all have been tested and passed in the manner you describe, it follows you won't be having the jab. Because nothing will satisfy your criteria
If I have bone cancer and am dying, and I visit a hot country for one last week in the sun, but then I end up with a cancerous mole from the UV rays and die within 28 days, am I recorded as 'died from skin cancer'? No
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 3 minutes ago
If I have bone cancer and am dying, and I visit a hot country for one last week in the sun, but then I end up with a cancerous mole from the UV rays and die within 28 days, am I recorded as 'died from skin cancer'? No
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Covid they could only tell after an autopsy, They are trying to arrive at a reasonable figure without going through that, which would be an impossibility in any event. In your example they would know without an autopsy, and it would be a one off, not hundreds à day
"Don't get me wrong as soon as a vaccine has been independently, objectively and scientifically tested and 'passed' I will be at front of queue making demands. But not until that happens. And that REALLY hasn't yet happened."
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
It has passed the exact same trials as any other vaccine currently approved for use. The fact folk still don't know this or choose to ignore it is depressing
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 14 minutes ago
My point is, if you're on death's door and you go into hospital and then catch covid ala Captain Tom, you are recorded as a covid death regardless of the main reason. If covid is simply mentioned on your death certificate you are a 'covid death' even if you were on end of life care for something else.
It's a ridiculous way to measure the number of covid deaths and I don't know why more people aren't up in arms about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More myths.
In your hypothetical scenario, the cause of death would be the underlying illness and Covid would be recorded as a factor.
Don't believe everything you read on conspiracy blogs.
Spoken as someone who is ex-NHS and is still in contact with many of my former colleagues.
Myths? The government and NHS literally state that their daily death figure includes deaths where covid is the underlying cause AND where covid is simply mentioned on the death certificate.
I don't read any 'conspiracy blogs' - and again, I'd like to reiterate that questioning things doesn't make you an instant conspiracy theorist maniac - that's a cheap way for you to try to negate my point.
You can be a former hospital porter and be 'ex-NHS' - why should I take your opinion as having weight behind it because you say you're ex-NHS on an anonymous forum?
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
OP's point is simply that when people die (for any reason) after having covid, it's classed as a covid death so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths'.
That proposition obviously raises uncomfortable questions for most of you so you're deflecting it with silly conspiracy talk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be ridiculous.
People dying after having their toenails cut, a toenail death.
After a laxative a laxitive death.
It is recorded as a covid death as its almost certain it was the cause or a contributory factor.
It's not after a vaccine jab as its unlikely to have been the cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely false
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
MU52 - So you concede that it's not an accurate figure but it's the best they can do given the time/cost involved? That's fair enough but then it's insane to base policy on that figure, with such a flawed methodology.
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think such fabled cases make a statistically significant impact on the published Covid mortality rates? Let's remember that at the start of the pandemic in particular there were lots of people dying without being tested, and plenty of Covid deaths weren't captured as such on death certificates. The FT published a very rigorous study estimating the total Covid deaths up to the summer (if they continued the project, I lost touch with it), and this very confidently found that the total deaths were higher than the ONS stats. You can also see a clear correlation between the Covid mortality stats and the excess mortality numbers - both in terms of total numbers and spikes during peaks in infections.
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 24 minutes ago
Myths? The government and NHS literally state that their daily death figure includes deaths where covid is the underlying cause AND where covid is simply mentioned on the death certificate.
I don't read any 'conspiracy blogs' - and again, I'd like to reiterate that questioning things doesn't make you an instant conspiracy theorist maniac - that's a cheap way for you to try to negate my point.
You can be a former hospital porter and be 'ex-NHS' - why should I take your opinion as having weight behind it because you say you're ex-NHS on an anonymous forum?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The ONS figures don't include deaths where Covid is merely mentioned.. only where it is the direct cause or contributing factor.
https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/measuring-mortality-during-covid-19-a-q-a
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 29 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it isn't.
That's an absolute lie.
Peddling misinformation like this helps nobody and is causing the pandemic to stretch on and on as it undermines the response to it.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think such fabled cases make a statistically significant impact on the published Covid mortality rates? Let's remember that at the start of the pandemic in particular there were lots of people dying without being tested, and plenty of Covid deaths weren't captured as such on death certificates. The FT published a very rigorous study estimating the total Covid deaths up to the summer (if they continued the project, I lost touch with it), and this very confidently found that the total deaths were higher than the ONS stats. You can also see a clear correlation between the Covid mortality stats and the excess mortality numbers - both in terms of total numbers and spikes during peaks in infections.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I don’t but I’m giving an extreme example where the numbers can be manipulated. Plenty of people have died after having covid but there death was in no way related to covid, yet it goes down as a covid death.
By that logic, anti vaxxers can spin any death that’s taken place after being vaccinated to be a vaccine related death.
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 29 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it isn't.
That's an absolute lie.
Peddling misinformation like this helps nobody and is causing the pandemic to stretch on and on as it undermines the response to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In fact your scenario is beyond ridiculous.
If he had no symptoms he wouldn't know he was Covid positive and neither would the hospital doctor who records his death.
Honestly.. this is such a moronic hypothetical situation.. you aren't a serious person if you believe that crap 😂
Sign in if you want to comment
Vaccine deaths
Page 2 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 8/2/21
comment by RED666👺. (U6562)
posted 56 minutes ago
Hansaplast What a Shiite article!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why?
posted on 8/2/21
Comment deleted by Article Creator
posted on 9/2/21
OP's point is simply that when people die (for any reason) after having covid, it's classed as a covid death so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths'.
That proposition obviously raises uncomfortable questions for most of you so you're deflecting it with silly conspiracy talk.
posted on 9/2/21
Nobody is deflecting.
There isn't a vaccine on earth that hasn't caused people to die from side effects or adverse immune responses.
This vaccine is no different. It's not even news.
There's always risk attached to treatments and vaccines, but it is dwarfed by the risk of catching the actual sodding disease.
posted on 9/2/21
so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths
--------------------------------------
No, it absolutely shouldn't.
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
OP's point is simply that when people die (for any reason) after having covid, it's classed as a covid death so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths'.
That proposition obviously raises uncomfortable questions for most of you so you're deflecting it with silly conspiracy talk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be ridiculous.
People dying after having their toenails cut, a toenail death.
After a laxative a laxitive death.
It is recorded as a covid death as its almost certain it was the cause or a contributory factor.
It's not after a vaccine jab as its unlikely to have been the cause.
posted on 9/2/21
Jukebox: the point isn't that the vaccine caused the deaths, the OP is trying to highlight that the method of deciding what is and isn't a 'covid death' (i.e. any death within 28 days of a positive test) is massively flawed, and so applying this same logic to the vaccine means you have to conclude that they are 'vaccine deaths'. The idea that we've been fed incorrect figures for a year obviously troubles most people.
Bloodred: I'm just using the government's own flawed method, but no one seems concerned about that for some reason.
Mu52: Any death within 28 days of a positive test is a 'covid death' - don't you think that's a crazy way to measure how many are dying from covid? I think that's what the OP was trying to highlight.
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 15 minutes ago
Jukebox: the point isn't that the vaccine caused the deaths, the OP is trying to highlight that the method of deciding what is and isn't a 'covid death' (i.e. any death within 28 days of a positive test) is massively flawed, and so applying this same logic to the vaccine means you have to conclude that they are 'vaccine deaths'. The idea that we've been fed incorrect figures for a year obviously troubles most people.
Bloodred: I'm just using the government's own flawed method, but no one seems concerned about that for some reason.
Mu52: Any death within 28 days of a positive test is a 'covid death' - don't you think that's a crazy way to measure how many are dying from covid? I think that's what the OP was trying to highlight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I don't think it's crazy. They just count it as it is likely, and they don't want to do hundreds of autopsies every day.
This way gives us a handle on if cases are up or down, based on a reasonable assumption
posted on 9/2/21
Average time between contraction of covid and death is 21 days, that's why they have the 28 day rule.
posted on 9/2/21
Don't get me wrong as soon as a vaccine has been independently, objectively and scientifically tested and 'passed' I will be at front of queue making demands. But not until that happens. And that REALLY hasn't yet happened.
In the current climate of nationalist lunacy, assisted by the most corrupt residents of the palaces of Westminster & Whitehall EVER - and I've been watching and challenging them since the early 70s - and their lackies in the privately owned, corporate-funded mainstream media outlets - who are only concerned in defending their sociopathic/paranoid stance on the dangers of 'foreigners' - then trusting the spokespeople of any national government, corporation or media outlet would be as self destructive as any recent events have been. Not for me.
This is threat that has it's danger in the reality of the laws of science. My primary concern is those around me and myself. Want the best for everyone else as well, but I'm not prepared to risk what's most important because of the deceits, phobias or just plain stupidity of others.
There is a huge difference between paranoia and making rational decisions based on experience and acquired understandings (intelligence).
posted on 9/2/21
My point is, if you're on death's door and you go into hospital and then catch covid ala Captain Tom, you are recorded as a covid death regardless of the main reason. If covid is simply mentioned on your death certificate you are a 'covid death' even if you were on end of life care for something else.
It's a ridiculous way to measure the number of covid deaths and I don't know why more people aren't up in arms about it
posted on 9/2/21
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted 13 minutes ago
Don't get me wrong as soon as a vaccine has been independently, objectively and scientifically tested and 'passed' I will be at front of queue making demands. But not until that happens. And that REALLY hasn't yet happened.
In the current climate of nationalist lunacy, assisted by the most corrupt residents of the palaces of Westminster & Whitehall EVER - and I've been watching and challenging them since the early 70s - and their lackies in the privately owned, corporate-funded mainstream media outlets - who are only concerned in defending their sociopathic/paranoid stance on the dangers of 'foreigners' - then trusting the spokespeople of any national government, corporation or media outlet would be as self destructive as any recent events have been. Not for me.
This is threat that has it's danger in the reality of the laws of science. My primary concern is those around me and myself. Want the best for everyone else as well, but I'm not prepared to risk what's most important because of the deceits, phobias or just plain stupidity of others.
There is a huge difference between paranoia and making rational decisions based on experience and acquired understandings (intelligence).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As they all have been tested and passed in the manner you describe, it follows you won't be having the jab. Because nothing will satisfy your criteria
posted on 9/2/21
If I have bone cancer and am dying, and I visit a hot country for one last week in the sun, but then I end up with a cancerous mole from the UV rays and die within 28 days, am I recorded as 'died from skin cancer'? No
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 3 minutes ago
If I have bone cancer and am dying, and I visit a hot country for one last week in the sun, but then I end up with a cancerous mole from the UV rays and die within 28 days, am I recorded as 'died from skin cancer'? No
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Covid they could only tell after an autopsy, They are trying to arrive at a reasonable figure without going through that, which would be an impossibility in any event. In your example they would know without an autopsy, and it would be a one off, not hundreds à day
posted on 9/2/21
"Don't get me wrong as soon as a vaccine has been independently, objectively and scientifically tested and 'passed' I will be at front of queue making demands. But not until that happens. And that REALLY hasn't yet happened."
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
It has passed the exact same trials as any other vaccine currently approved for use. The fact folk still don't know this or choose to ignore it is depressing
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 14 minutes ago
My point is, if you're on death's door and you go into hospital and then catch covid ala Captain Tom, you are recorded as a covid death regardless of the main reason. If covid is simply mentioned on your death certificate you are a 'covid death' even if you were on end of life care for something else.
It's a ridiculous way to measure the number of covid deaths and I don't know why more people aren't up in arms about it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More myths.
In your hypothetical scenario, the cause of death would be the underlying illness and Covid would be recorded as a factor.
Don't believe everything you read on conspiracy blogs.
Spoken as someone who is ex-NHS and is still in contact with many of my former colleagues.
posted on 9/2/21
Myths? The government and NHS literally state that their daily death figure includes deaths where covid is the underlying cause AND where covid is simply mentioned on the death certificate.
I don't read any 'conspiracy blogs' - and again, I'd like to reiterate that questioning things doesn't make you an instant conspiracy theorist maniac - that's a cheap way for you to try to negate my point.
You can be a former hospital porter and be 'ex-NHS' - why should I take your opinion as having weight behind it because you say you're ex-NHS on an anonymous forum?
posted on 9/2/21
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
OP's point is simply that when people die (for any reason) after having covid, it's classed as a covid death so it should follow that people dying (for any reason) after having the vaccine are classed as 'vaccine deaths'.
That proposition obviously raises uncomfortable questions for most of you so you're deflecting it with silly conspiracy talk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be ridiculous.
People dying after having their toenails cut, a toenail death.
After a laxative a laxitive death.
It is recorded as a covid death as its almost certain it was the cause or a contributory factor.
It's not after a vaccine jab as its unlikely to have been the cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely false
posted on 9/2/21
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
posted on 9/2/21
MU52 - So you concede that it's not an accurate figure but it's the best they can do given the time/cost involved? That's fair enough but then it's insane to base policy on that figure, with such a flawed methodology.
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think such fabled cases make a statistically significant impact on the published Covid mortality rates? Let's remember that at the start of the pandemic in particular there were lots of people dying without being tested, and plenty of Covid deaths weren't captured as such on death certificates. The FT published a very rigorous study estimating the total Covid deaths up to the summer (if they continued the project, I lost touch with it), and this very confidently found that the total deaths were higher than the ONS stats. You can also see a clear correlation between the Covid mortality stats and the excess mortality numbers - both in terms of total numbers and spikes during peaks in infections.
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 24 minutes ago
Myths? The government and NHS literally state that their daily death figure includes deaths where covid is the underlying cause AND where covid is simply mentioned on the death certificate.
I don't read any 'conspiracy blogs' - and again, I'd like to reiterate that questioning things doesn't make you an instant conspiracy theorist maniac - that's a cheap way for you to try to negate my point.
You can be a former hospital porter and be 'ex-NHS' - why should I take your opinion as having weight behind it because you say you're ex-NHS on an anonymous forum?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The ONS figures don't include deaths where Covid is merely mentioned.. only where it is the direct cause or contributing factor.
https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/measuring-mortality-during-covid-19-a-q-a
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 29 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it isn't.
That's an absolute lie.
Peddling misinformation like this helps nobody and is causing the pandemic to stretch on and on as it undermines the response to it.
posted on 9/2/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think such fabled cases make a statistically significant impact on the published Covid mortality rates? Let's remember that at the start of the pandemic in particular there were lots of people dying without being tested, and plenty of Covid deaths weren't captured as such on death certificates. The FT published a very rigorous study estimating the total Covid deaths up to the summer (if they continued the project, I lost touch with it), and this very confidently found that the total deaths were higher than the ONS stats. You can also see a clear correlation between the Covid mortality stats and the excess mortality numbers - both in terms of total numbers and spikes during peaks in infections.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I don’t but I’m giving an extreme example where the numbers can be manipulated. Plenty of people have died after having covid but there death was in no way related to covid, yet it goes down as a covid death.
By that logic, anti vaxxers can spin any death that’s taken place after being vaccinated to be a vaccine related death.
posted on 9/2/21
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Mi Pelea (U18355)
posted 29 minutes ago
A guy is covid positive, has no covid symptoms, and 25 days later falls off a ladder, breaks his neck and dies. That is registered as a covid death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it isn't.
That's an absolute lie.
Peddling misinformation like this helps nobody and is causing the pandemic to stretch on and on as it undermines the response to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In fact your scenario is beyond ridiculous.
If he had no symptoms he wouldn't know he was Covid positive and neither would the hospital doctor who records his death.
Honestly.. this is such a moronic hypothetical situation.. you aren't a serious person if you believe that crap 😂
Page 2 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10