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Southgate Ball

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posted on 29/3/21

There needs to be a balance. I do think many England fans have had a shift in mentality that values creative players over any other - probably due to the success of Spain - but you still need players that can do the other things, most notably score goals.

For example, Rashford has more goals than Sancho, Foden, Mount, Maddison and Grealish combined for England. So does Sterling. And people are debating their inclusion in the starting line up, and even the squad for some.

Harry Kane is amazing, but you still need to play other players that can put the ball in the back of the net for England.

posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 29/3/21

And you have randomly lashed out calling Ziyech, Havertz, Pulisic overpriced tat.

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Hardly pulling up any trees, are they?

By what metric is Mount having a better season than Grealish?

In 6 games less in the PL, Grealish has been immediately involved in exactly 2x more goals. Mount is fine against the Albania’s of the world, but if we want to get past France, Portugal et al then we’re going to need moments of magic. I have a lot more faith in Grealish and Foden delivering in that sense than Mount, as would most English fans, based on the statistical and optical evidence...

posted on 29/3/21

That’s what I’d go with. Though the fitness of Rashford remains a concern, which could open up that left hand side. But Sancho, whilst yet to really do it for England, has a good balance between creativity and goal scoring. And has that pace and running off the striker that we’d lack if Grealish were to play.

The way Kane is playing now makes it vital we have two players making runs off him either side. I think this was a problem when Grealish and Kane started together for England.

posted on 29/3/21

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posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Bumble (U6465)

posted on 29/3/21

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 2 minutes ago
And you have randomly lashed out calling Ziyech, Havertz, Pulisic overpriced tat.

-

Hardly pulling up any trees, are they?

By what metric is Mount having a better season than Grealish?

In 6 games less in the PL, Grealish has been immediately involved in exactly 2x more goals. Mount is fine against the Albania’s of the world, but if we want to get past France, Portugal et al then we’re going to need moments of magic. I have a lot more faith in Grealish and Foden delivering in that sense than Mount, as would most English fans, based on the statistical and optical evidence...
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Agreed.

The only 2 English players in this country that have been spoken about as creating moments of magic in recent times are Grealish and Foden. Especially Grealish whose style is literally like he's on a school playground. Taking a ball happily under any pressure, taking on opposition without a care in the world. Foden is now showing why he should start, a class player. I'd start Kane up top with Grealish and Foden behind.

posted on 29/3/21

comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 15 minutes ago
By what metric is Mount having a better season than Grealish?


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Has anyone said that? All you said was that Mount was average.... unless I have missed some posts.
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The guy I replied to is literally arguing that...

posted on 29/3/21

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 41 seconds ago
And you have randomly lashed out calling Ziyech, Havertz, Pulisic overpriced tat.

-

Hardly pulling up any trees, are they?

By what metric is Mount having a better season than Grealish?

In 6 games less in the PL, Grealish has been immediately involved in exactly 2x more goals. Mount is fine against the Albania’s of the world, but if we want to get past France, Portugal et al then we’re going to need moments of magic. I have a lot more faith in Grealish and Foden delivering in that sense than Mount, as would most English fans, based on the statistical and optical evidence...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So:

1) You pretend to speak on behalf of England fans - a really odd claim
2) You admit your views are faith calls
3) You rely on goals as the only metric of contribution to team performace
4) You suggest Mount only performs v Albania - when optical evidence will show you he was excellent versus the likes of Spurs, Liverpool and Atletico Madrid?
5) You make a revision to your nonsense claim of overpriced tat by again, revising it to pulling up trees.

Crikey you're all over the place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I am a revolutionary, judging midfielders on goals and assists. You asks for metrics. I provided two. You then moved the goalposts. I think it’s you who is all over the place.

I didn’t claim to speak for all England fans. In fact, earlier in the thread I specifically made the point that there will be England fans who bought Batty and Barmby shirts who will agree with you that Mount is better than Grealish.

posted on 29/3/21

comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 52 minutes ago
You don't need Rice and Phillips in that team against Albania. Mount would have done well as an 8.

I'd have personally gone 4-1-4-1 really. The 1 holding midfielder would be Rice as I'd say he's better than Phillips personally speaking, the 4 in behind Kane for me would be Sterling, Foden, Grealish and Mount.
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Southgate’s never going to start that midfield. Pep’s the only manager that would set up with two number 10’s in central midfield.

I’d be surprised if Southgate goes with a team so lacking in pace as well without runners in behind. England have played their best football with pacy wide men. Rashford or Sancho will most likely play on the left.
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I meant against Albania specifically I'd have gone for that team because Sancho isn't in the squad.

If I had to go for my actual England team then I would go (with everyone fit):

Henderson
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Mount Henderson Foden
Sancho Kane Sterling

I think both Mount and Foden would be capable of taking the ball forward progressing through the thirds really, both technically gifted players as well in that role who can take it past a player in the midfield as I've seen recently.

It's hard to leave out Grealish, Maddison, TAA etc though. Players like Dier should just be on the bench.

posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 29/3/21

comment by Bumble (U6465)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 2 minutes ago
And you have randomly lashed out calling Ziyech, Havertz, Pulisic overpriced tat.

-

Hardly pulling up any trees, are they?

By what metric is Mount having a better season than Grealish?

In 6 games less in the PL, Grealish has been immediately involved in exactly 2x more goals. Mount is fine against the Albania’s of the world, but if we want to get past France, Portugal et al then we’re going to need moments of magic. I have a lot more faith in Grealish and Foden delivering in that sense than Mount, as would most English fans, based on the statistical and optical evidence...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.

The only 2 English players in this country that have been spoken about as creating moments of magic in recent times are Grealish and Foden. Especially Grealish whose style is literally like he's on a school playground. Taking a ball happily under any pressure, taking on opposition without a care in the world. Foden is now showing why he should start, a class player. I'd start Kane up top with Grealish and Foden behind.
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So would I,

But we will get Rice, Ward-Prowse and Mount/Lingard, because “Southgate wants players he knows and trusts.”

It’s also why Chilwell and Walker/Trippier will start ahead of Shaw and Trent, because the England team motto is “Talentum suffocationem”

posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 29/3/21

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 41 seconds ago
And you have randomly lashed out calling Ziyech, Havertz, Pulisic overpriced tat.

-

Hardly pulling up any trees, are they?

By what metric is Mount having a better season than Grealish?

In 6 games less in the PL, Grealish has been immediately involved in exactly 2x more goals. Mount is fine against the Albania’s of the world, but if we want to get past France, Portugal et al then we’re going to need moments of magic. I have a lot more faith in Grealish and Foden delivering in that sense than Mount, as would most English fans, based on the statistical and optical evidence...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So:

1) You pretend to speak on behalf of England fans - a really odd claim
2) You admit your views are faith calls
3) You rely on goals as the only metric of contribution to team performace
4) You suggest Mount only performs v Albania - when optical evidence will show you he was excellent versus the likes of Spurs, Liverpool and Atletico Madrid?
5) You make a revision to your nonsense claim of overpriced tat by again, revising it to pulling up trees.

Crikey you're all over the place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I am a revolutionary, judging midfielders on goals and assists. You asks for metrics. I provided two. You then moved the goalposts. I think it’s you who is all over the place.

I didn’t claim to speak for all England fans. In fact, earlier in the thread I specifically made the point that there will be England fans who bought Batty and Barmby shirts who will agree with you that Mount is better than Grealish.
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Oh the irony - you mention metrics and changing goal posts when previously you claimed objectivity for assertions and when slapped down for your Mount is Mediocre claim....you shifted the goalposts then tried to morph the conversation into Mount v Grealish.

Actually you called people who disagree with you lunatics, if memory serves, and again you did say you spoke for the fans. Which is not just ludicrous but would mean nothing if true anyway.
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Nobody slapped me down, because nobody provded objectively that I was wrong, so there’s that for a start.

The conversation is around Mount and Grealish/Foden, because my original comment was a very direct criticism of the fact that less able players will start ahead of Grealish and Foden, who are arguably our two most talented players, certainly of the midfielders.

posted on 29/3/21

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 50 seconds ago
Oh I get it now, triggered United fans upset their favourites aren't liked. Makes sense.
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This make no sense whatsoever, given that the two players I am making a case for play for Villa and Man City.

posted on 29/3/21

Grealish hasn't played as an 8 outside of the championship I'm surprised so many think it would be a travesty if mount starts there instead of him

posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 29/3/21

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 50 seconds ago
Oh I get it now, triggered United fans upset their favourites aren't liked. Makes sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This make no sense whatsoever, given that the two players I am making a case for play for Villa and Man City.
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Nah you went all salty about Shaw at the end. Bitter boy.
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I also mentioned Trent. A Liverpool player... strange that a United fan would go out of his way to big up Foden and Trent, and disparage Mount in your eyes, if the motive was to advocate for Luke Shaw.

But I suppose you’re free to manifest whatever nonsense helps you think you’ve made a valid point...

posted on 29/3/21

And nope you pivoted because your claim was baseless.

-

So you say. Interesting that until a few weeks ago a lot of Chelsea fans on here were making similar comments about Mount. Curious.

posted on 29/3/21

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 29/3/21

comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Shola The Ameobi Shoretire (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 52 minutes ago
You don't need Rice and Phillips in that team against Albania. Mount would have done well as an 8.

I'd have personally gone 4-1-4-1 really. The 1 holding midfielder would be Rice as I'd say he's better than Phillips personally speaking, the 4 in behind Kane for me would be Sterling, Foden, Grealish and Mount.
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Southgate’s never going to start that midfield. Pep’s the only manager that would set up with two number 10’s in central midfield.

I’d be surprised if Southgate goes with a team so lacking in pace as well without runners in behind. England have played their best football with pacy wide men. Rashford or Sancho will most likely play on the left.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I meant against Albania specifically I'd have gone for that team because Sancho isn't in the squad.

If I had to go for my actual England team then I would go (with everyone fit):

Henderson
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Mount Henderson Foden
Sancho Kane Sterling

I think both Mount and Foden would be capable of taking the ball forward progressing through the thirds really, both technically gifted players as well in that role who can take it past a player in the midfield as I've seen recently.

It's hard to leave out Grealish, Maddison, TAA etc though. Players like Dier should just be on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Grealish isn’t in the squad either.

I would prefer a 433, issue is that Foden as a cm is better on paper than in practice. He does his best work higher up the pitch, which is why Pep plays him there.

Having two cm’s that can allow for the attacking mid and the full backs to have a bit more attacking freedom is the way Southgate wants to go. And it’s not really a bad plan. The problem is, of course, that central midfield is the weakest position in the squad.

International managers are generally quite cautious. It’s easier to set a team up that way when you have limited time with the players, that are ever changing due to the nature of international football. Trusting players to play in positions that they play for their club in is just an obvious thing to do for most of them.

It’s why Grealish and Foden being viewed as wide players is what Southgate has done. And why Mount is trusted in the middle as he plays there regularly for his club.

posted on 29/3/21

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 2 minutes ago
And nope you pivoted because your claim was baseless.

-

So you say. Interesting that until a few weeks ago a lot of Chelsea fans on here were making similar comments about Mount. Curious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure who that was/is. That said you're hardly curious, just a bit simple.
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Another thing you’re wrong on, but go off.

posted on 29/3/21

comment by NPEEE (U22521)
posted 3 hours, 22 minutes ago
I think goals and assists is a very crude metric BK, I also largely value creativity against low-block deep-lying teams over creating chances in open games for a mid-table club. I also have discussed Foden several times in this thread if memory serves.

All entitled to our own opinions of course

In my opinion - calling Mount mediocre is ridiculous and yes he has had a better season than Grealish and Foden so far.
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Fair enough. They are all good players. Personally I would put Mount and Foden equal this season and Grealish slightly better. I’ll be honest I think you and Nick are hyperbolising to put Mount as a top 5 PL performer this season, I agree with TLLL. Of course one of our best players this season, but out of all performers in PL dunno maybe makes top 10-15 if that. Re: Foden I meant more discussing Foden in the Mount being top 5 PL player of the season debate.

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