Welshpool...you deny being a casual yet reek of it. How you can’t understand how creating a standalone competitive entity and giving each team 300m is not fundementally outrageous then we can only assume you are devoidbofbunderstandingbof the nature of the sport and it’s social and sentimental standing.
Devaluing the Prem and this annexing the supply of money at the top.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 minutes ago
Welshpool, your arguments support the acceptance of monopoly capitalism and its logical consequence: greater inequality, exclusion and exploitative practice. An ESL on these terms does not simply replace the CL because there is no prospect of relegation from it.
No relegation: what does that mean Welshpool?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Minor pedantry in that you generally don't get relegate from the CL. You qualify for the next edition or you don't.
Either way I get your point and I've already said I'm not a fan of the closed shop. It does not however create a monopoly. If they were banned from creating this tournament and UEFA were the only corporation allowed to create a Europe wide football tournament then that would literally be a monopoly.
comment by VOF - Its all about believing .... (U17124)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 6 minutes ago
But doesn't that already happen with the CL? If this tournament replaces the CL, but nothing changes for the PL then why will the interest in the PL drop?
————————
It’s not replacing the CL. It a new tournament.
All other TV deals will be devalued, in every country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, it replaces the CL as the primary European comp, meaning the CL would be devalued. Still not sure how this affects the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it will lock out everyone else out, you won't be getting rewarded for finishing in a champs league spot, therefore wont get the money or the players.
It's not that hard to understand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it is hard to understand if you're being deliberately obtuse .....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People should make convincing arguments then. The PL sponsorship deal will be valued on what the sponsors think it is worth to them. This will mostly be based on the number of viewers that the competition brings in.
Under the proposal, the same teams (barring whomever gets relegated) will compete for the same ultimate prize, and for there to be a significant drop in sponsorship there would have to be a significant drop in viewers.
Will Wetherby White stop watching Leeds because they cannot qualify for the SL? Will Villa's fans stop watching Villa's games because they won't win the league? Will the millions around the world who tune into watch Man Utd v Man City in the title race suddenly not bother?
Maybe.
But why? Sure they might get bored of seeing United v City for the 4th time that season but that might happen now.
If the viewing numbers stay high the sponsorship value will stay high. So which viewing numbers will drop in significant amounts?
Reading the various posts today It appears that a fair percentage of the 8% in favour of this Closed Money Grabbing League are JA606 contributers.
Unsurprisingly all are supporters of the 6 rich clubs.
comment by 🎤Mike drop🎤 (U15513)
posted 6 minutes ago
Welshpool...you deny being a casual yet reek of it. How you can’t understand how creating a standalone competitive entity and giving each team 300m is not fundementally outrageous then we can only assume you are devoidbofbunderstandingbof the nature of the sport and it’s social and sentimental standing.
Devaluing the Prem and this annexing the supply of money at the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea and City were both given boosts of significantly more than this in previous years.
Not £300 m a year, they weren’t.
And don’t you think all the best players will saved for the European league.
It totally devalued the premier league
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 13 seconds ago
Not £300 m a year, they weren’t.
And don’t you think all the best players will saved for the European league.
It totally devalued the premier league
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man City's current squad cost them over 1 billion to put together (after applying inflation). Ditto Man Utd. With inflation applied, Chelsea between 05 and 07 remain the most expensively assembled squad in CL history.
Yes, this will entrench that inequality, but everyone is acting like up until now football has been built on level playing fields and sportsmanship, which hasn't been true in decades, even if it ever was.
Maybe this super league will lead to a team winning a domestic treble to show their dominance...oh.
Maybe it will lead to a team being so dominant that they hit 100 points and finish nearly 20 ahead of their rivals..
Oh.
Pretty much everything that you are worried is going to happen with this super league has already happened. Where would Man City be if they hadn't been bought out and had billions pumped in? That was the only way they were able to make them competitive.
That was the only way they were able to make them competitive.
—————————
That’s the point 🤦🤦🤦🤦
It’s stop any other clubs being successful because it’s a closed shop
God but it STINKS! Let's hope we stick it to Liverpool tonight good and proper!
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 1 minute ago
That was the only way they were able to make them competitive.
—————————
That’s the point 🤦🤦🤦🤦
It’s stop any other clubs being successful because it’s a closed shop
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But under the previous system, the only way involved a third party buying a club and pouring money in until they could compete. That isn't a good thing, and effectively created a closed shop in all but name unless you could spend billions.
The same thing will apply. Its a closed shop unless you can outstanding everyone to gain admittance.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 minutes ago
God but it STINKS! Let's hope we stick it to Liverpool tonight good and proper!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, except on the match tonight.
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
Well, it a highly emotive development, particularly for us Leeds fans. We've missed out on most of the CL fun/money, and just when we might stand an outside chance (maybe next year) of playing the best in Europe again, as we've done in the past, the whole shebang changes as the CL/PL are devalued.
Welshpool, you state that "unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall." In my view, that's just rolling over without a fight. I'm not so sure they do have sufficient clout, particularly Arsenal and Spurs.
I must say I'm feeling a little bit sick about the fact that the 49ers recently increased their stake in our club. The track records of the Glazers, Kroenke and Henry do not instil confidence in this American way of running a sporting interest.
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 minutes ago
Well, it a highly emotive development, particularly for us Leeds fans. We've missed out on most of the CL fun/money, and just when we might stand an outside chance (maybe next year) of playing the best in Europe again, as we've done in the past, the whole shebang changes as the CL/PL are devalued.
Welshpool, you state that "unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall." In my view, that's just rolling over without a fight. I'm not so sure they do have sufficient clout, particularly Arsenal and Spurs.
I must say I'm feeling a little bit sick about the fact that the 49ers recently increased their stake in our club. The track records of the Glazers, Kroenke and Henry do not instil confidence in this American way of running a sporting interest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fair enough, but in my view they do have enough clout collectively. The PL can kick them out, but that will almost certainly lead to a a huge loss of revenue in terms of sponsorship and TV money, which many of the remaining clubs rely on to be solvent. The big 6 clubs would be hurt, but the new SL money would keep them going. The likes of West Ham etc would have no such resources to draw on. What happens if these clubs suddenly don't have enough money to pay their salary commitments?
Similar with banning players from the World Cup. Are the sponsors going to be haply and willing to pay as much if the best players in the world are banned? Now Fifa might still decide that the integrity is worth the financial risk, but when have FIFA ever done that?
Interesting that PSG haven't signed up - the Qataris are apparently nervous about their World Cup.
Interesting too that the stock market value of Man U has increased today by 250 mill apparently - those loathsome cowboys, the Glazers, will be licking their lips and rubbing their hands!
A fair number of the twelve clubs concerned are carrying incredible debt - Madrid almost a billion, Spurs half a bill or more, Man U? And will Abramovich and Mansour continue to pour their oily wealth into bottomless pits forever? I don't think so - the rich are notoriously impatient and the super-rich even more so! The pandemic has already changed the situation irrevocably, in my view, and maybe this is just a way of avoiding any meltdown.
Reckon this is all Ed Woodward's doing, myself. He was the guy that arranged the Glazer buyout when working for JP Morgan - who are stumping up the initial billions that will kick this ESL off. Woodward's a shark an no mistake.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 17 minutes ago
Interesting that PSG haven't signed up - the Qataris are apparently nervous about their World Cup.
Interesting too that the stock market value of Man U has increased today by 250 mill apparently - those loathsome cowboys, the Glazers, will be licking their lips and rubbing their hands!
A fair number of the twelve clubs concerned are carrying incredible debt - Madrid almost a billion, Spurs half a bill or more, Man U? And will Abramovich and Mansour continue to pour their oily wealth into bottomless pits forever? I don't think so - the rich are notoriously impatient and the super-rich even more so! The pandemic has already changed the situation irrevocably, in my view, and maybe this is just a way of avoiding any meltdown.
Reckon this is all Ed Woodward's doing, myself. He was the guy that arranged the Glazer buyout when working for JP Morgan - who are stumping up the initial billions that will kick this ESL off. Woodward's a shark an no mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, it is entirely money driven. I imagine the Liverpool owners are big drivers of this. They were keen to push the PL project that got voted down a while back.
Gary Neville's said it best. I agree with him 100%.
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly! And people are happy with this?
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly! And people are happy with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that many people are happy with this. I've seen a few people who claim to be all in favour, but everyone else is against it. Some are more vehement, and some ate more resigned.
Here is the ice skating case
https://www.ashurst.com/en/news-and-insights/legal-updates/competition-law-newsletter-february-2021/cn03---eu-general-court-issues-judgment-in-international-skating-union-case/
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When Evolution destroys sport
Page 6 of 6
6
posted on 19/4/21
Welshpool...you deny being a casual yet reek of it. How you can’t understand how creating a standalone competitive entity and giving each team 300m is not fundementally outrageous then we can only assume you are devoidbofbunderstandingbof the nature of the sport and it’s social and sentimental standing.
Devaluing the Prem and this annexing the supply of money at the top.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 minutes ago
Welshpool, your arguments support the acceptance of monopoly capitalism and its logical consequence: greater inequality, exclusion and exploitative practice. An ESL on these terms does not simply replace the CL because there is no prospect of relegation from it.
No relegation: what does that mean Welshpool?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Minor pedantry in that you generally don't get relegate from the CL. You qualify for the next edition or you don't.
Either way I get your point and I've already said I'm not a fan of the closed shop. It does not however create a monopoly. If they were banned from creating this tournament and UEFA were the only corporation allowed to create a Europe wide football tournament then that would literally be a monopoly.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by VOF - Its all about believing .... (U17124)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 6 minutes ago
But doesn't that already happen with the CL? If this tournament replaces the CL, but nothing changes for the PL then why will the interest in the PL drop?
————————
It’s not replacing the CL. It a new tournament.
All other TV deals will be devalued, in every country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, it replaces the CL as the primary European comp, meaning the CL would be devalued. Still not sure how this affects the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it will lock out everyone else out, you won't be getting rewarded for finishing in a champs league spot, therefore wont get the money or the players.
It's not that hard to understand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it is hard to understand if you're being deliberately obtuse .....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People should make convincing arguments then. The PL sponsorship deal will be valued on what the sponsors think it is worth to them. This will mostly be based on the number of viewers that the competition brings in.
Under the proposal, the same teams (barring whomever gets relegated) will compete for the same ultimate prize, and for there to be a significant drop in sponsorship there would have to be a significant drop in viewers.
Will Wetherby White stop watching Leeds because they cannot qualify for the SL? Will Villa's fans stop watching Villa's games because they won't win the league? Will the millions around the world who tune into watch Man Utd v Man City in the title race suddenly not bother?
Maybe.
But why? Sure they might get bored of seeing United v City for the 4th time that season but that might happen now.
If the viewing numbers stay high the sponsorship value will stay high. So which viewing numbers will drop in significant amounts?
posted on 19/4/21
Reading the various posts today It appears that a fair percentage of the 8% in favour of this Closed Money Grabbing League are JA606 contributers.
Unsurprisingly all are supporters of the 6 rich clubs.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by 🎤Mike drop🎤 (U15513)
posted 6 minutes ago
Welshpool...you deny being a casual yet reek of it. How you can’t understand how creating a standalone competitive entity and giving each team 300m is not fundementally outrageous then we can only assume you are devoidbofbunderstandingbof the nature of the sport and it’s social and sentimental standing.
Devaluing the Prem and this annexing the supply of money at the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea and City were both given boosts of significantly more than this in previous years.
posted on 19/4/21
Not £300 m a year, they weren’t.
And don’t you think all the best players will saved for the European league.
It totally devalued the premier league
posted on 19/4/21
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 13 seconds ago
Not £300 m a year, they weren’t.
And don’t you think all the best players will saved for the European league.
It totally devalued the premier league
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Man City's current squad cost them over 1 billion to put together (after applying inflation). Ditto Man Utd. With inflation applied, Chelsea between 05 and 07 remain the most expensively assembled squad in CL history.
Yes, this will entrench that inequality, but everyone is acting like up until now football has been built on level playing fields and sportsmanship, which hasn't been true in decades, even if it ever was.
Maybe this super league will lead to a team winning a domestic treble to show their dominance...oh.
Maybe it will lead to a team being so dominant that they hit 100 points and finish nearly 20 ahead of their rivals..
Oh.
Pretty much everything that you are worried is going to happen with this super league has already happened. Where would Man City be if they hadn't been bought out and had billions pumped in? That was the only way they were able to make them competitive.
posted on 19/4/21
PL history*
posted on 19/4/21
That was the only way they were able to make them competitive.
—————————
That’s the point 🤦🤦🤦🤦
It’s stop any other clubs being successful because it’s a closed shop
posted on 19/4/21
God but it STINKS! Let's hope we stick it to Liverpool tonight good and proper!
posted on 19/4/21
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 1 minute ago
That was the only way they were able to make them competitive.
—————————
That’s the point 🤦🤦🤦🤦
It’s stop any other clubs being successful because it’s a closed shop
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But under the previous system, the only way involved a third party buying a club and pouring money in until they could compete. That isn't a good thing, and effectively created a closed shop in all but name unless you could spend billions.
The same thing will apply. Its a closed shop unless you can outstanding everyone to gain admittance.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 minutes ago
God but it STINKS! Let's hope we stick it to Liverpool tonight good and proper!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, except on the match tonight.
posted on 19/4/21
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
posted on 19/4/21
Well, it a highly emotive development, particularly for us Leeds fans. We've missed out on most of the CL fun/money, and just when we might stand an outside chance (maybe next year) of playing the best in Europe again, as we've done in the past, the whole shebang changes as the CL/PL are devalued.
Welshpool, you state that "unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall." In my view, that's just rolling over without a fight. I'm not so sure they do have sufficient clout, particularly Arsenal and Spurs.
I must say I'm feeling a little bit sick about the fact that the 49ers recently increased their stake in our club. The track records of the Glazers, Kroenke and Henry do not instil confidence in this American way of running a sporting interest.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 2 minutes ago
Well, it a highly emotive development, particularly for us Leeds fans. We've missed out on most of the CL fun/money, and just when we might stand an outside chance (maybe next year) of playing the best in Europe again, as we've done in the past, the whole shebang changes as the CL/PL are devalued.
Welshpool, you state that "unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall." In my view, that's just rolling over without a fight. I'm not so sure they do have sufficient clout, particularly Arsenal and Spurs.
I must say I'm feeling a little bit sick about the fact that the 49ers recently increased their stake in our club. The track records of the Glazers, Kroenke and Henry do not instil confidence in this American way of running a sporting interest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's fair enough, but in my view they do have enough clout collectively. The PL can kick them out, but that will almost certainly lead to a a huge loss of revenue in terms of sponsorship and TV money, which many of the remaining clubs rely on to be solvent. The big 6 clubs would be hurt, but the new SL money would keep them going. The likes of West Ham etc would have no such resources to draw on. What happens if these clubs suddenly don't have enough money to pay their salary commitments?
Similar with banning players from the World Cup. Are the sponsors going to be haply and willing to pay as much if the best players in the world are banned? Now Fifa might still decide that the integrity is worth the financial risk, but when have FIFA ever done that?
posted on 19/4/21
Interesting that PSG haven't signed up - the Qataris are apparently nervous about their World Cup.
Interesting too that the stock market value of Man U has increased today by 250 mill apparently - those loathsome cowboys, the Glazers, will be licking their lips and rubbing their hands!
A fair number of the twelve clubs concerned are carrying incredible debt - Madrid almost a billion, Spurs half a bill or more, Man U? And will Abramovich and Mansour continue to pour their oily wealth into bottomless pits forever? I don't think so - the rich are notoriously impatient and the super-rich even more so! The pandemic has already changed the situation irrevocably, in my view, and maybe this is just a way of avoiding any meltdown.
Reckon this is all Ed Woodward's doing, myself. He was the guy that arranged the Glazer buyout when working for JP Morgan - who are stumping up the initial billions that will kick this ESL off. Woodward's a shark an no mistake.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 17 minutes ago
Interesting that PSG haven't signed up - the Qataris are apparently nervous about their World Cup.
Interesting too that the stock market value of Man U has increased today by 250 mill apparently - those loathsome cowboys, the Glazers, will be licking their lips and rubbing their hands!
A fair number of the twelve clubs concerned are carrying incredible debt - Madrid almost a billion, Spurs half a bill or more, Man U? And will Abramovich and Mansour continue to pour their oily wealth into bottomless pits forever? I don't think so - the rich are notoriously impatient and the super-rich even more so! The pandemic has already changed the situation irrevocably, in my view, and maybe this is just a way of avoiding any meltdown.
Reckon this is all Ed Woodward's doing, myself. He was the guy that arranged the Glazer buyout when working for JP Morgan - who are stumping up the initial billions that will kick this ESL off. Woodward's a shark an no mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, it is entirely money driven. I imagine the Liverpool owners are big drivers of this. They were keen to push the PL project that got voted down a while back.
posted on 19/4/21
Gary Neville's said it best. I agree with him 100%.
posted on 19/4/21
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly! And people are happy with this?
posted on 19/4/21
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 minute ago
What you're saying is that this is just more of the same and there's no point trying to shut the stable door cos the horse is long since gone.
We can all agree that football, particularly English football, has needed greater regulation for a long time, particularly in relation to the ownership of clubs.
However, the principle of no relegation changes everything - that's what differentiates this ESL proposal from the CL. It will profit nobody except those included - and that has got to be resisted. This is just an exercise in asset stripping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, to a degree. I am also happy for this to he resisted and I applaud anyone who does so. I'm not saying the proposals are a good idea at all, I have simply been trying to have a discussion to ascertain what effects it will actually have. Too much of the response has been pure outrage, grief and abuse without much in the way of logical discussion.
I don't have a season ticket at Anfield, and in usual times I don't have a sky subscription because I prefer to watch all the televised games in the pub. There is very little point in me getting worked up about this since I have very little financial stake in it, and thus very little influence.
I have several misgivings about the new tournament, but the only one that seems to have riled people up is the automatic qualification. Unfortunately these clubs have enough clout that they can make this demand and see where the chips fall.
The PL could vote them out, but that would risk the income of the PL teams, and so the owners of Newcastle and West Ham are unlikely to do so. UEFA can ban the clubs from the CL but that is the end result of the SL anyway so isn't an effective threat. Players could be banned from internationals but in the short term that is unfair if players are contracted already, but it might also devalue the international tournaments.
I'm waiting for more information to come out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not just about automatic qualification to me. What about those six teams having no incentive to finish in the top four? What about them playing weakened teams in the PL and resting their “stars” for the Super League?
It will make the PL far worse in my opinion. Far worse!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of those things would be as a result of the automatic qualification though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly! And people are happy with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that many people are happy with this. I've seen a few people who claim to be all in favour, but everyone else is against it. Some are more vehement, and some ate more resigned.
posted on 19/4/21
Here is the ice skating case
https://www.ashurst.com/en/news-and-insights/legal-updates/competition-law-newsletter-february-2021/cn03---eu-general-court-issues-judgment-in-international-skating-union-case/
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