comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 49 seconds ago
Feel free to post the benefits up in the same way so we can have a balanced discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can also add that the UK government will still be sending millions each year to the EU up to 2056.

At least the bananas are still bendy.

comment by Robbb Labuschagne - The Ashes are gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience (U22716)
posted 58 seconds ago
At least the bananas are still bendy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Codex Alimentarius

comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? What age is middle aged? (U3126)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 49 seconds ago
Feel free to post the benefits up in the same way so we can have a balanced discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can also add that the UK government will still be sending millions each year to the EU up to 2056.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many millions?

comment by Shinjury list (U1700)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? What age is middle aged? (U3126)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 49 seconds ago
Feel free to post the benefits up in the same way so we can have a balanced discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can also add that the UK government will still be sending millions each year to the EU up to 2056.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many millions?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No idea. It's to cover pension contributions.

comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? What age is middle aged? (U3126)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Shinjury list (U1700)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? What age is middle aged? (U3126)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 49 seconds ago
Feel free to post the benefits up in the same way so we can have a balanced discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can also add that the UK government will still be sending millions each year to the EU up to 2056.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many millions?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No idea. It's to cover pension contributions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In July 2021, Downing Street rejected an EU estimate of a £40.8bn total bill.

The government insisted the figure was between £35bn and £39bn.

In the early years, a lot of the payments will be paying for a share of spending that the EU committed to while the UK was a member, but has not yet funded.

Most of the money paid in later years will be contributions towards funding the pensions of EU staff.

But there will also be money paid back to the UK from things like its money in the European Investment Bank (just over £3bn) and the European Central Bank (about £50m).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51110096

comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 25 minutes ago
Feel free to post the benefits up in the same way so we can have a balanced discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry Chinaski?

And the smug circle-jerk continues, as per...

comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 25 minutes ago
Feel free to post the benefits up in the same way so we can have a balanced discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry Chinaski?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Henry is currently in line with other turkeys waiting to vote for Christmas

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 39 seconds ago
And the smug circle-jerk continues, as per...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all. You asked for genuine negatives; I posted them and invited you to counter with the benefits.

Why are you reading that as smug?

Henry Chinaski

Putting it in layman terms, the UK has left the most sophisticated/integrated/advanced trade bloc ever devised.

It replaced this relationship with a ‘bare bones’ TCA, which has created a host of new barriers to trade, when before there was none. And whilst Covid has masked a lot of the new trade impediments, the loss to potential GDP is around 4% in the long term.

The cost of living will therefore rise at its fastest rate for a generation. The consequences of which are obvious.

I always said that the Government should have extended the transitional agreement by a few years to help mitigate the economic hit caused by the pandemic. Downgrading your trading relationship with your largest and closest partners, under the umbrella of a global pandemic was at best economic neglect.

The new trading arrangements with the EU will endure unless or until the UK seeks preferential access to the EU’s internal market. Which the populace rejected in 2016, and again in 2019.

Henry, can we please have a riposte to the above that deals in facts, not feelings?

An outsiders' view came from Madeleine Albright, former US Secretary of State and someone who has no particular axe to grind any more. In an interview she described Brexit thus:

"...an exercise in economic masochism that Britons will long regret. Grumbling about their marriage to the EU and threatening to leave gave the British leverage at the bargaining table; calling their own bluff and filing for divorce has left them with none"

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
Shocked that middle-class, world-travelling Robb doesn't understand the experience of the British working class.

The truth is, the way Remainers insult the intelligence of people they don't know or understand is disgusting. How can you be so arrogant about something that a) you are in the minority on, and b) has so far played out during the backdrop of a worldwide pandemic, and been overseen by a corrupt Tory government?

Give it time, and a change of government, and maybe we'll see more positives from Brexit.

I would wager some people were turned towards the leave side purely due to Remainers being so smug and self-congratulatory.

Maybe consider being more moderate and try to understand the opposition and debate with them properly, instead of huffing your own farts and patting each other on the back, and maybe you'll change some people's minds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

To be honest I’ve tried engaging intellectually with leave voters, but it rarely, if ever, worked. I actually like a good debate and am interested in being persuaded by other points of view.

In months gone by I’ve been accused of smugness by responding to soundbites with patiently constructed facts. I’ve been accused of being a snowflake or some leftie liberal. I’m not and probably tend more towards a traditionally conservative fiscal ideology.

Repeatedly, in these sort of debates, facts have been met with headlines that have been manufactured by the leave campaign. Alternative facts have been given to me that can easily be disassembled by a limited skill in judicious googling.

I could easily list numerous reasons why Brexit is a bad idea. I could easily list numerous reasons why it’s already been bad economically for us not to mention strategically and politically bad. But - I really can’t be bothered!! As only maybe once or twice has any alternative view been given back to me that I’ve considered interesting enough to research or challenge my existing thinking.

Resorting to deriding people who have no intention of researching anything I have to say is a position of last resort. There is no point in engaging with people who don’t want to listen to anything other than something used for their own confirmation bias

That's a lot of statistics from various people to route through but my main thought is 'let's see' - because these are mostly projections and can't be guaranteed anyway.

Repeatedly insulting leave voters and saying they need to be held to account for what they've done to the country etc. is abhorrent. People voted mostly in good faith I believe. Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.

Also, firing wall after wall of statistics from your favourite partisan rag at people and spending all day on a forum, whilst complaining that GDP has dropped, is hilarious. And I would put money on those complaining about the apparent economic impacts of Brexit, are also strongly in favour of repeated lockdowns. Hypocrites much?

At the end of the day, it's all going to be OK. Relax.

comment by Robbb Labuschagne - The Ashes are gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 25 minutes ago
Feel free to post the benefits up in the same way so we can have a balanced discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry Chinaski?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Henry is currently in line with other turkeys waiting to vote for Christmas
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, given the last two years I think it's fair to say the turkeys have voted against Christmas.

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 4 minutes ago
That's a lot of statistics from various people to route through but my main thought is 'let's see' - because these are mostly projections and can't be guaranteed anyway.

Repeatedly insulting leave voters and saying they need to be held to account for what they've done to the country etc. is abhorrent. People voted mostly in good faith I believe. Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.

Also, firing wall after wall of statistics from your favourite partisan rag at people and spending all day on a forum, whilst complaining that GDP has dropped, is hilarious. And I would put money on those complaining about the apparent economic impacts of Brexit, are also strongly in favour of repeated lockdowns. Hypocrites much?

At the end of the day, it's all going to be OK. Relax.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah guys. Don't you come at Henry with your facts and statistics. He's got a gut feeling about this.

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 1 minute ago
That's a lot of statistics from various people to route through but my main thought is 'let's see' - because these are mostly projections and can't be guaranteed anyway.

Repeatedly insulting leave voters and saying they need to be held to account for what they've done to the country etc. is abhorrent. People voted mostly in good faith I believe. Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.

Also, firing wall after wall of statistics from your favourite partisan rag at people and spending all day on a forum, whilst complaining that GDP has dropped, is hilarious. And I would put money on those complaining about the apparent economic impacts of Brexit, are also strongly in favour of repeated lockdowns. Hypocrites much?

At the end of the day, it's all going to be OK. Relax.




----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I didn't site any particular "rag"

The drop in GDP is the natural consequence of erecting trade barriers with partners. The 4% figure was derived from the independent OBR's publication.

https://obr.uk/box/the-initial-impact-of-brexit-on-uk-trade-with-the-eu/

Who also found that after the TCA had been ratified and provisionally implemented (the UK still has no formal trade border with EU or Ireland as its not yet ready) there was a sharp decrease in exports to the EU.

The OBR (again noting it is independent providing impartial analysis of the UK’s finances) concluded by stating:

"The terms of the TCA are yet to be implemented in full, meaning trade barriers will rise further as more of the deal comes into force. For example, the introduction of full checks on UK imports has recently been delayed until 2022."

In case it is unnoticed, the drop in GDP means there is less revenue for the public purse. Less public money to spend on everything.

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 2 hours, 19 minutes ago

I would wager some people were turned towards the leave side purely due to Remainers being so smug and self-congratulatory.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are these the same people whose intelligence you claim is being insulted?

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 19 minutes ago
That's a lot of statistics from various people to route through but my main thought is 'let's see' - because these are mostly projections and can't be guaranteed anyway.

Repeatedly insulting leave voters and saying they need to be held to account for what they've done to the country etc. is abhorrent. People voted mostly in good faith I believe. Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.

Also, firing wall after wall of statistics from your favourite partisan rag at people and spending all day on a forum, whilst complaining that GDP has dropped, is hilarious. And I would put money on those complaining about the apparent economic impacts of Brexit, are also strongly in favour of repeated lockdowns. Hypocrites much?

At the end of the day, it's all going to be OK. Relax.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The statistics I quoted were from Bloomberg, please feel free to fact check them.

You have a platform here to post the positive effects of Brexit, but you don't seem to want to, accusing people of 'insulting' you by quoting figures from their favourite 'partisan rag'

We can't have a meaningful discussion if you have no contribution to make, you're just indulging in the behaviour that you're accusing others of.

comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 19 minutes ago
That's a lot of statistics from various people to route through but my main thought is 'let's see' - because these are mostly projections and can't be guaranteed anyway.

Repeatedly insulting leave voters and saying they need to be held to account for what they've done to the country etc. is abhorrent. People voted mostly in good faith I believe. Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.

Also, firing wall after wall of statistics from your favourite partisan rag at people and spending all day on a forum, whilst complaining that GDP has dropped, is hilarious. And I would put money on those complaining about the apparent economic impacts of Brexit, are also strongly in favour of repeated lockdowns. Hypocrites much?

At the end of the day, it's all going to be OK. Relax.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The statistics I quoted were from Bloomberg, please feel free to fact check them.

You have a platform here to post the positive effects of Brexit, but you don't seem to want to, accusing people of 'insulting' you by quoting figures from their favourite 'partisan rag'

We can't have a meaningful discussion if you have no contribution to make, you're just indulging in the behaviour that you're accusing others of.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You're making the mistake of assuming he wants a meaningful discussion.

comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 30 minutes ago

Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.
=====================

I think that this is the biggest reason that people voted to leave. Many were still upset about the fact we never really voted to join the EU and saw it as an opportunity to show their anger at not having that opportunity.

comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 30 minutes ago

Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.
=====================

I think that this is the biggest reason that people voted to leave. Many were still upset about the fact we never really voted to join the EU and saw it as an opportunity to show their anger at not having that opportunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Heath campaigned and won the GE based on joining the EEC.

BTW Cummings did acknowledge the £350m/NHS pledge was the defining reason why Leave won. Combining the public's affection for the NHS and the concept of it being better funded (as a result of Brexit) was a genius idea.

Leave even had leaflets made up to look like official NHS ones, and sent them to hospitals all over the country. Duping people into thinking the NHS was backing brexit.

The hapless Remain campaign spent a lot of their time countering arguments in regard to the precise amount the UK paid into the EU. Rather than setting out the benefits of membership.

comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? What age is middle aged? (U3126)
posted 19 minutes ago

comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Henry Chinaski (U21800)
posted 30 minutes ago

Very few actually believed the NHS bus that everyone constantly brings up. Just didn't like the fact that other countries could influence affairs here, which is a perfectly understandable position.
=====================

I think that this is the biggest reason that people voted to leave. Many were still upset about the fact we never really voted to join the EU and saw it as an opportunity to show their anger at not having that opportunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Heath campaigned and won the GE based on joining the EEC
------------------

Yep. Big difference between a common market and what it actually developed into.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator