Cameron’s got a lot to answer for.
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
Cameron’s got a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing that he has managed to brush off most of the blame to be honest.
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 26 seconds ago
Cameron’s got a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He had a very cavalier attitude to the possibility of a 'leave' vote. He just couldn't see it happening, so made that insane deal with the UKIP tw@ts.
Then you've got Tories making pacts with UKIP candidates not to stand in return for assurances that they'll push hell for leather for Brexit for them. The venality and desperation of their trying to cling on to power was astonishing.
Then you've got Labour's ambivalence to membership, so you've got no effective opposition to the process once the extremists have taken over the process.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think two things:
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
2. The UK performance with covid is down to so many factors and EU involvement wouldn’t have made much of a positive difference, if any. Our climate, population density, social obedience (or lack thereof), less healthy population, our record with flu compared with EU countries is a notable indication of how covid was going to go for us, lack of increased infrastructure in the NHS, lack of shutting down the airports in sufficient time, many argue the delayed action time and time again with lockdowns. EU wouldn’t have made a difference vs those kind of factors.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think two things:
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
2. The UK performance with covid is down to so many factors and EU involvement wouldn’t have made much of a positive difference, if any. Our climate, population density, social obedience (or lack thereof), less healthy population, our record with flu compared with EU countries is a notable indication of how covid was going to go for us, lack of increased infrastructure in the NHS, lack of shutting down the airports in sufficient time, many argue the delayed action time and time again with lockdowns. EU wouldn’t have made a difference vs those kind of factors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* a less anti-Europe
May and Boris being absolute donkeys has taken the heat off him ffs.
I don’t think UKIP were quite as important as the ERG and the Tory donors that were pushing for Brexit.
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 18 seconds ago
May and Boris being absolute donkeys has taken the heat off him ffs.
I don’t think UKIP were quite as important as the ERG and the Tory donors that were pushing for Brexit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And politicians like Rees-Mogg who stood to lose millions with imminent EU tax legislation, and so had a vested interest in the outcome.
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
———
The problem with this counterfactual is that it completely ignores all the issues within the Tory party and the massively polarised political landscape that was created by Brexit.
Things wouldn’t have carried on as were normal under Cameron because the conditions were no longer there for that to be the case, which is why Brexit actually happened.
I think the world would benefit from a pre intelligence test before you are eligible to vote.
That way we would never see Republicans in power again, Brexit would never have happened and all round common sense would prevail. It is a shame the less intelligent get to have a say.
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
———
The problem with this counterfactual is that it completely ignores all the issues within the Tory party and the massively polarised political landscape that was created by Brexit.
Things wouldn’t have carried on as were normal under Cameron because the conditions were no longer there for that to be the case, which is why Brexit actually happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually think complacency was the biggest culprit
comment by Cinciwolf--Whiney and easily offended! (U11551)
posted 13 seconds ago
I think the world would benefit from a pre intelligence test before you are eligible to vote.
That way we would never see Republicans in power again, Brexit would never have happened and all round common sense would prevail. It is a shame the less intelligent get to have a say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they call it Idiocracy or something
Fecking hate articles like this where you expect a good debate and the first comment kicks off a completely off topic punfest and you realise you just wasted 10 minutes reading 200+ comments.
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 36 seconds ago
Fecking hate articles like this where you expect a good debate and the first comment kicks off a completely off topic punfest and you realise you just wasted 10 minutes reading 200+ comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have stopped before 200
It was a big part of it, but the conditions were there for this to happen. A remain win in the referendum wouldn’t have been the end of it.
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 1 minute ago
Fecking hate articles like this where you expect a good debate and the first comment kicks off a completely off topic punfest and you realise you just wasted 10 minutes reading 200+ comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like you don't have ten minutes to waste ffs
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with those countries?
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with those countries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing. They are not leading nations though. The majority are former communist states that are less economically developed than the UK.
Unless those countries as a barometer would tell me that you see the UK as a middling nation with waning influence.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with those countries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also - RR originally said across the EU
I see the UK as a middling nation with waning influence
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 36 seconds ago
I see the UK as a middling nation with waning influence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is the way we are going. All empires and leading cultures end eventually though.
I’m looking forward to seeing the American empire crumble, and I welcome my Chinese overlords.
comment by Cinciwolf--Whiney and easily offended! (U11551)
posted 36 minutes ago
I think the world would benefit from a pre intelligence test before you are eligible to vote.
That way we would never see Republicans in power again, Brexit would never have happened and all round common sense would prevail. It is a shame the less intelligent get to have a say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was the ideology of Hitler's Germany that suggested that an argument that appealed to the stupid masses was far more powerful than one that appealed to academics and people of intelligence.
It's still true today. Hence Brexit and the prevalence of three word slogans that people understand: Take Back Control, Get Brexit Done, Hands Face Space etc.
Sign in if you want to comment
Brexit
Page 9 of 21
10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
posted on 20/12/21
Cameron’s got a lot to answer for.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
Cameron’s got a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing that he has managed to brush off most of the blame to be honest.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 26 seconds ago
Cameron’s got a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He had a very cavalier attitude to the possibility of a 'leave' vote. He just couldn't see it happening, so made that insane deal with the UKIP tw@ts.
Then you've got Tories making pacts with UKIP candidates not to stand in return for assurances that they'll push hell for leather for Brexit for them. The venality and desperation of their trying to cling on to power was astonishing.
Then you've got Labour's ambivalence to membership, so you've got no effective opposition to the process once the extremists have taken over the process.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think two things:
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
2. The UK performance with covid is down to so many factors and EU involvement wouldn’t have made much of a positive difference, if any. Our climate, population density, social obedience (or lack thereof), less healthy population, our record with flu compared with EU countries is a notable indication of how covid was going to go for us, lack of increased infrastructure in the NHS, lack of shutting down the airports in sufficient time, many argue the delayed action time and time again with lockdowns. EU wouldn’t have made a difference vs those kind of factors.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think two things:
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
2. The UK performance with covid is down to so many factors and EU involvement wouldn’t have made much of a positive difference, if any. Our climate, population density, social obedience (or lack thereof), less healthy population, our record with flu compared with EU countries is a notable indication of how covid was going to go for us, lack of increased infrastructure in the NHS, lack of shutting down the airports in sufficient time, many argue the delayed action time and time again with lockdowns. EU wouldn’t have made a difference vs those kind of factors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* a less anti-Europe
posted on 20/12/21
May and Boris being absolute donkeys has taken the heat off him ffs.
I don’t think UKIP were quite as important as the ERG and the Tory donors that were pushing for Brexit.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 18 seconds ago
May and Boris being absolute donkeys has taken the heat off him ffs.
I don’t think UKIP were quite as important as the ERG and the Tory donors that were pushing for Brexit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And politicians like Rees-Mogg who stood to lose millions with imminent EU tax legislation, and so had a vested interest in the outcome.
posted on 20/12/21
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
———
The problem with this counterfactual is that it completely ignores all the issues within the Tory party and the massively polarised political landscape that was created by Brexit.
Things wouldn’t have carried on as were normal under Cameron because the conditions were no longer there for that to be the case, which is why Brexit actually happened.
posted on 20/12/21
I think the world would benefit from a pre intelligence test before you are eligible to vote.
That way we would never see Republicans in power again, Brexit would never have happened and all round common sense would prevail. It is a shame the less intelligent get to have a say.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
1. We would have likely been part of their contract had we not Brexited. A much more pro-Europe Conservative party would be in power and we would have likely followed the other eu member states, rightly or wrongly, as it turns out, wrongly.
———
The problem with this counterfactual is that it completely ignores all the issues within the Tory party and the massively polarised political landscape that was created by Brexit.
Things wouldn’t have carried on as were normal under Cameron because the conditions were no longer there for that to be the case, which is why Brexit actually happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually think complacency was the biggest culprit
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Cinciwolf--Whiney and easily offended! (U11551)
posted 13 seconds ago
I think the world would benefit from a pre intelligence test before you are eligible to vote.
That way we would never see Republicans in power again, Brexit would never have happened and all round common sense would prevail. It is a shame the less intelligent get to have a say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think they call it Idiocracy or something
posted on 20/12/21
Fecking hate articles like this where you expect a good debate and the first comment kicks off a completely off topic punfest and you realise you just wasted 10 minutes reading 200+ comments.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 36 seconds ago
Fecking hate articles like this where you expect a good debate and the first comment kicks off a completely off topic punfest and you realise you just wasted 10 minutes reading 200+ comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could have stopped before 200
posted on 20/12/21
It was a big part of it, but the conditions were there for this to happen. A remain win in the referendum wouldn’t have been the end of it.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 1 minute ago
Fecking hate articles like this where you expect a good debate and the first comment kicks off a completely off topic punfest and you realise you just wasted 10 minutes reading 200+ comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like you don't have ten minutes to waste ffs
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with those countries?
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with those countries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing. They are not leading nations though. The majority are former communist states that are less economically developed than the UK.
Unless those countries as a barometer would tell me that you see the UK as a middling nation with waning influence.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
SatNav, I didn't argue that Brexit was the reason for the high mortality rate in the UK, just that it feels quite arcane to suggest Covid-related success as a Brexit benefit (setting aside the argument about constraints around procurement schemes and membership) when the UK ended up with higher deaths per capita than our closest EU equivalents. Especially when the present government's libertarian ideological streak and cavalier modus operandi (which have very much informed our self-described 'world beating' approach to the pandemic) derive quite directly from the Leave campaign's grasp on power.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add: Italy, Belgium, Poland, Slovenia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, The Czech Republic, Hungary & Bulgaria all have worse per capita deaths
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are the countries to set your standards against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with those countries?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also - RR originally said across the EU
posted on 20/12/21
*using
posted on 20/12/21
I see the UK as a middling nation with waning influence
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann. Rangnificent (U1270)
posted 36 seconds ago
I see the UK as a middling nation with waning influence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is the way we are going. All empires and leading cultures end eventually though.
posted on 20/12/21
I’m looking forward to seeing the American empire crumble, and I welcome my Chinese overlords.
posted on 20/12/21
comment by Cinciwolf--Whiney and easily offended! (U11551)
posted 36 minutes ago
I think the world would benefit from a pre intelligence test before you are eligible to vote.
That way we would never see Republicans in power again, Brexit would never have happened and all round common sense would prevail. It is a shame the less intelligent get to have a say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was the ideology of Hitler's Germany that suggested that an argument that appealed to the stupid masses was far more powerful than one that appealed to academics and people of intelligence.
It's still true today. Hence Brexit and the prevalence of three word slogans that people understand: Take Back Control, Get Brexit Done, Hands Face Space etc.
Page 9 of 21
10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14