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Anti vax.

Page 7 of 13

posted on 10/1/22

comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It does beg the question as to why people need 2-3 vaccines after having covid twice though? Could do more harm than good, just to reach targets and be "seen" to be doing something? From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand all that but:

1) If we say that a previous infection can stand in place of vaccination, what do we think will be the action taken amongst the vaccine-hesitant and can we honestly say that’s a good thing to encourage?

2) I agree that Djokovic presents a negligible ‘danger’ but, again, rules like these aren’t about keeping out one person. It has to be the same for everyone. And that’s not really a case of agreeing with the rules but, once they are there, it’s hard to deal with just one person on a case-by-case basis.

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
The common cold provides immunity against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59911257

I wouldn't be surprised if it emerges in a few months and colds have been triggeting a positive covid test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


As omicron is roughly 70per cent less dangerous than delta etc, it may not trigger a double positive line of LFD tests, apparently?

comment by 8bit (U2653)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by Ruiney (U1005)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
The common cold provides immunity against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59911257

I wouldn't be surprised if it emerges in a few months and colds have been triggeting a positive covid test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve done tests during 4 colds and have never had a positive.

Although I would say I get more colds than average and haven’t had covid so…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a scientiest so someone can educate me here but I do find it weird how a disease with a dry cough and fever as main symptoms turns into one where sneezing and runny nose are the main symptoms.

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
You wouldn't have immunity, but it other people are vaccinated then I don't see why they'd be concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That’s not my point. What if I want immunity, or need ‘proof’ of it for work (like Djokovic)? Should deliberately getting myself infected be up there as just another option alongside the vaccinations?

comment by Admin1 (U1)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
The common cold provides immunity against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59911257

I wouldn't be surprised if it emerges in a few months and colds have been triggeting a positive covid test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


As omicron is roughly 70per cent less dangerous than delta etc, it may not trigger a double positive line of LFD tests, apparently?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://inews.co.uk/news/lateral-flow-tests-omicron-covid-variant-detection-testing-kits-1374073/amp

Admin2 is currently viddled, as is his wife. She didn't get the positive LFT until she swabbed her throat.

comment by Ruiney (U1005)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Ruiney (U1005)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
The common cold provides immunity against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59911257

I wouldn't be surprised if it emerges in a few months and colds have been triggeting a positive covid test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve done tests during 4 colds and have never had a positive.

Although I would say I get more colds than average and haven’t had covid so…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a scientiest so someone can educate me here but I do find it weird how a disease with a dry cough and fever as main symptoms turns into one where sneezing and runny nose are the main symptoms.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Different cold strains give different symptoms.

Sometimes you’ll get a terrible saw throat, sometimes not.

Sometimes you’ll get a cough, sometimes not.

Similar to covid strains I guess.

comment by 8bit (U2653)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It does beg the question as to why people need 2-3 vaccines after having covid twice though? Could do more harm than good, just to reach targets and be "seen" to be doing something? From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand all that but:

1) If we say that a previous infection can stand in place of vaccination, what do we think will be the action taken amongst the vaccine-hesitant and can we honestly say that’s a good thing to encourage?

2) I agree that Djokovic presents a negligible ‘danger’ but, again, rules like these aren’t about keeping out one person. It has to be the same for everyone. And that’s not really a case of agreeing with the rules but, once they are there, it’s hard to deal with just one person on a case-by-case basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you're advocating not telling people the truth to coerce them into getting the vaccine?

posted on 10/1/22

The reason LFTs aren't that accurate is because nobody (including myself until a doctor friend of mine showed me) knows how to do it properly.

Should go straight in, parallel to the ground to the back of the nasal cavity.

comment by Ruiney (U1005)

posted on 10/1/22

sore*

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?

comment by 8bit (U2653)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
You wouldn't have immunity, but it other people are vaccinated then I don't see why they'd be concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That’s not my point. What if I want immunity, or need ‘proof’ of it for work (like Djokovic)? Should deliberately getting myself infected be up there as just another option alongside the vaccinations?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
from what I've heard it's not difficult at all for people to fake a covid pass or a negative pcr test, so no need for them to do that.

posted on 10/1/22

As I've said before, that blanket vaccination for the 5-12 age group is unjustified (and in my view ethically questionable). As much as the vaccine's considered safe enough, and I trust that as being sufficiently good for vaccinating high risk groups, it just seems reckless to me to vaccinate the entire age group for an illness that can lower hospitalisation and death rates than ordinary seasonal flu, for which I have never heard anyone suggest we should be vaccinating children every year.

Here's a pretty detailed CDC paper on the epidemiological profile of Covid in 5s to 12s:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-2-3/03-COVID-Jefferson-508.pdf

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It does beg the question as to why people need 2-3 vaccines after having covid twice though? Could do more harm than good, just to reach targets and be "seen" to be doing something? From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand all that but:

1) If we say that a previous infection can stand in place of vaccination, what do we think will be the action taken amongst the vaccine-hesitant and can we honestly say that’s a good thing to encourage?

2) I agree that Djokovic presents a negligible ‘danger’ but, again, rules like these aren’t about keeping out one person. It has to be the same for everyone. And that’s not really a case of agreeing with the rules but, once they are there, it’s hard to deal with just one person on a case-by-case basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you're advocating not telling people the truth to coerce them into getting the vaccine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What? No. Let’s just say we knew for a fact that immunity from a prior infection were stronger than from a vaccine - and it was given the same status. If I have never had Covid and I don’t want a vaccine for whatever reason, I can simply go and get myself infected.

First of all, how do I do this? I can’t just book a slot in a certain place at a certain time and guarantee I’ll get myself some immunity, like I can with a vaccine. I might do all the ‘right’ things to get myself ill and fail to do so for weeks.

Secondly, what if I get seriously ill with Covid - or even die?

I’m not sure you can really allow for a set of circumstances that encourages people to pick up a virus during a pandemic. And I think that’s what would happen if you say that a prior infection is equal to a vaccination. It’s not about not telling the truth.

comment by 8bit (U2653)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was reported on the BBC and other mainsteam news outlets a few months ago. Russia allows recently infected people to defer the vaccine for one year, Australia with this Djokovic situation are similar I'm assuming so there must be solid evidence there.

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
The common cold provides immunity against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59911257

I wouldn't be surprised if it emerges in a few months and colds have been triggeting a positive covid test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it doesn’t, and that isn’t what the article you’ve linked says.

posted on 10/1/22

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is WELL KNOWN in science and virology that naturl immunity is generally better than a vaccine...well before c19 came around. Smallpox and measles had vaccines but if you recovered from either naturally then you were advised to NOT have the vaccine...scientifically there is no point.

Indeed in the USA the CDC...centre for disease control did EXACTLY that...advised against the vaccine IF you recovered naturally. Of course they advised getting the vaccine first but if you you didn't and you recovered there was no need to get it.

comment by 8bit (U2653)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It does beg the question as to why people need 2-3 vaccines after having covid twice though? Could do more harm than good, just to reach targets and be "seen" to be doing something? From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand all that but:

1) If we say that a previous infection can stand in place of vaccination, what do we think will be the action taken amongst the vaccine-hesitant and can we honestly say that’s a good thing to encourage?

2) I agree that Djokovic presents a negligible ‘danger’ but, again, rules like these aren’t about keeping out one person. It has to be the same for everyone. And that’s not really a case of agreeing with the rules but, once they are there, it’s hard to deal with just one person on a case-by-case basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you're advocating not telling people the truth to coerce them into getting the vaccine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What? No. Let’s just say we knew for a fact that immunity from a prior infection were stronger than from a vaccine - and it was given the same status. If I have never had Covid and I don’t want a vaccine for whatever reason, I can simply go and get myself infected.

First of all, how do I do this? I can’t just book a slot in a certain place at a certain time and guarantee I’ll get myself some immunity, like I can with a vaccine. I might do all the ‘right’ things to get myself ill and fail to do so for weeks.

Secondly, what if I get seriously ill with Covid - or even die?

I’m not sure you can really allow for a set of circumstances that encourages people to pick up a virus during a pandemic. And I think that’s what would happen if you say that a prior infection is equal to a vaccination. It’s not about not telling the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My view is that covid passes and restrictions on the unvaccinated are not logical, so there would be no need for them to get themselves infected.

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was reported on the BBC and other mainsteam news outlets a few months ago. Russia allows recently infected people to defer the vaccine for one year, Australia with this Djokovic situation are similar I'm assuming so there must be solid evidence there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple "no" would have done.

posted on 10/1/22

Djokovic should be ashamed for turning this into a political one. He knows very well Australia have stringent COVID rules and they didn't even let their own citizens into their country in the first and second COVID wave..

posted on 10/1/22

comment by Kingdom of Davids (U21957)
posted 1 minute ago
Djokovic should be ashamed for turning this into a political one. He knows very well Australia have stringent COVID rules and they didn't even let their own citizens into their country in the first and second COVID wave..
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I was one of those. My flight there in 2020 was cancelled three times before I finally got on one. It was harder to get in than Margot Robbie.

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Ricardo Calder (U1734)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

How would I get natural immunity, if I haven’t had Covid? (Assuming I also wasn’t vaccinated.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It does beg the question as to why people need 2-3 vaccines after having covid twice though? Could do more harm than good, just to reach targets and be "seen" to be doing something? From a scientific point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic doing everything an unvaccinated person does, but this is political.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand all that but:

1) If we say that a previous infection can stand in place of vaccination, what do we think will be the action taken amongst the vaccine-hesitant and can we honestly say that’s a good thing to encourage?

2) I agree that Djokovic presents a negligible ‘danger’ but, again, rules like these aren’t about keeping out one person. It has to be the same for everyone. And that’s not really a case of agreeing with the rules but, once they are there, it’s hard to deal with just one person on a case-by-case basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you're advocating not telling people the truth to coerce them into getting the vaccine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What? No. Let’s just say we knew for a fact that immunity from a prior infection were stronger than from a vaccine - and it was given the same status. If I have never had Covid and I don’t want a vaccine for whatever reason, I can simply go and get myself infected.

First of all, how do I do this? I can’t just book a slot in a certain place at a certain time and guarantee I’ll get myself some immunity, like I can with a vaccine. I might do all the ‘right’ things to get myself ill and fail to do so for weeks.

Secondly, what if I get seriously ill with Covid - or even die?

I’m not sure you can really allow for a set of circumstances that encourages people to pick up a virus during a pandemic. And I think that’s what would happen if you say that a prior infection is equal to a vaccination. It’s not about not telling the truth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My view is that covid passes and restrictions on the unvaccinated are not logical, so there would be no need for them to get themselves infected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless they needed a Covid pass. Logical or not, if one were required, they’d have to get one. And if they were determined not to get vaccinated, that would mean…

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not really keen on vaccine passports for a couple of reasons. But where they exist, I don’t think it’s a great idea to say that a recent infection counts because that absolutely will encourage vaccine-hesitant people to get infected so as to ‘cheat the system’.

comment by 8bit (U2653)

posted on 10/1/22

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it was reported on the BBC and other mainsteam news outlets a few months ago. Russia allows recently infected people to defer the vaccine for one year, Australia with this Djokovic situation are similar I'm assuming so there must be solid evidence there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple "no" would have done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you think the concept of herd immunity is a lie?

posted on 10/1/22

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 10/1/22

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 30 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Provide a link to those reports, please.

The current consensus in the scientific community is that:

- immune response to infection varies very widely and may be linked to disease severity (indeed, some people who have been infected have next to no long term immune response and have been reinfected quite quickly)
- immune response to infection still wanes over time
- immune response to infection does not guarantee protection against new strains with new mutations

https://www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-infection-vaccine

There is also strong evidence to suggest that the vaccines are on average much more successful at protecting against severe illness (hospitalisation and death) than immunity from prior infection.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-do-vaccines-protect-better-than-infection-induced-immunity

The best protection is offered by a double vaccination schedule followed by a booster programme, and I’m yet to see a study which has found data that contradicts that. If you are aware of one, I’d be grateful for a link.

posted on 10/1/22

comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 19 minutes ago
There were reports a few months ago that natural immunity is 6 times more effective than that provided by the vaccine, and more recent ones saying more than 10 times effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I addressed precisely that point only a few posts above yours.

Do you have any reliable, peer-reviewed research sources for your statement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is WELL KNOWN in science and virology that naturl immunity is generally better than a vaccine...well before c19 came around. Smallpox and measles had vaccines but if you recovered from either naturally then you were advised to NOT have the vaccine...scientifically there is no point.

Indeed in the USA the CDC...centre for disease control did EXACTLY that...advised against the vaccine IF you recovered naturally. Of course they advised getting the vaccine first but if you you didn't and you recovered there was no need to get it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you read the post or check the links I supplied in reply to what was in essence no more than a politician's rant?

A very large part of the polarisation is that a lot of people either want only to confirm what they already believe, or listen to people who align with their political beliefs.

As above, please provide reliable sources for your data, for which Daily Mail-style capitalisation for emphasis is no replacement.

Page 7 of 13

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