comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 6 minutes ago
I’m totally with the FA on this
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Of course you are.

Boris: "Anthing Hamas does is justified."
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Of course you’re against it “All Palestinians are guilty, all Jews are victims”
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One big difference, I didn't say anything like that, that isn't a quote from me whatsoever and I do not think that.

Yet yours is a direct quote.
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I’d love to see a link to where I’ve ever said Hamas were justified in their actions of last Saturday
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God I hope I haven’t confused you with someone else, if I have I sincerely apologise and retract my previous statement

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 6 minutes ago
I’m totally with the FA on this
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Of course you are.

Boris: "Anthing Hamas does is justified."
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Of course you’re against it “All Palestinians are guilty, all Jews are victims”
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One big difference, I didn't say anything like that, that isn't a quote from me whatsoever and I do not think that.

Yet yours is a direct quote.
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I’d love to see a link to where I’ve ever said Hamas were justified in their actions of last Saturday
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God I hope I haven’t confused you with someone else, if I have I sincerely apologise and retract my previous statement
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comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 6 days, 1 hour ago
comment by tliv7-0 (U11882)
posted 28 minutes ago
Wow didn't know the extent of this attack. God help Palestine with what may happen, one of the rare times Israel would be fully within their rights to go scorched Earth. Hamas are a disgrace and hopefully theany Palestinians who support them find a shred of self preservation and place more importance on it than petty revenge and Jew hatred.
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You do know that on a previous occasion when Isreal attcked Gaza, they used phosphorus bombs on civilian targets including schools.

Anthing Hamas does is justified.
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Interesting, I’ve just read an article on the BBC on that very subject.

Can I also point out that was written well before we knew the full horrors of the Hamas incursion

comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 26 seconds ago
Interesting, I’ve just read an article on the BBC on that very subject.

Can I also point out that was written well before we knew the full horrors of the Hamas incursion
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So you now concede that I said nothing of the sort which you attributed to me with direct quotation marks, they were completely fabricated and that you did in fact say exactly what I quoted.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 26 seconds ago
Interesting, I’ve just read an article on the BBC on that very subject.

Can I also point out that was written well before we knew the full horrors of the Hamas incursion
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So you now concede that I said nothing of the sort which you attributed to me with direct quotation marks, they were completely fabricated and that you did in fact say exactly what I quoted.
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You should be careful what you put in writing with regards to Hamas in this country.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 26 seconds ago
Interesting, I’ve just read an article on the BBC on that very subject.

Can I also point out that was written well before we knew the full horrors of the Hamas incursion
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So you now concede that I said nothing of the sort which you attributed to me with direct quotation marks, they were completely fabricated and that you did in fact say exactly what I quoted.
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Bonky in the mud AGAIN. Plastic and a liar

Must run in the fabric of being a city fan

Well played Sat Nav. Well played

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 26 seconds ago
Interesting, I’ve just read an article on the BBC on that very subject.

Can I also point out that was written well before we knew the full horrors of the Hamas incursion
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So you now concede that I said nothing of the sort which you attributed to me with direct quotation marks, they were completely fabricated and that you did in fact say exactly what I quoted.
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I know you didn’t, it was a reaction to you falsely accusing me of supporting Hamas after all that’s happened in the last 5 days.

My sympathies will always lie with the victims of terrorism and brutality rather than the perpetrators regardless of who they represent

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 25 seconds ago
I think on balance it's the right thing to do. And I do think this is more complex than other examples cited.

Ukraine: invaded by Russia in an explicitly colonial venture. There is no reasonable argument that Ukraine's resistance to being a satellite state of of Russia justified the brutal invasion or made the moral equation 'complex'.

Bataclan attack: terrorists murdered innocent civilians. The French state is open to criticism, but at the time of the gestures of solidarity, it wasn't doing the same.

Israel: there's absolutely no moral ambiguity in condemning the hideous actions of Hamas and we should all have total sympathy and solidarity with their victims. That's not morally complex. Equally, we should have sympathy and solidarity with the innocent civilians and children in Gaza who are dying as whole neighbourhoods are wiped out. We must condemn collective punishment as justification for murder of civilians, whether it's Hamas doing it at close range, looking innocent people in the eye, or a well armed state doing it from a distance. So from the FA's point of view, the complexity comes from how a simple gesture like lighting up the arch is read. How can you ensure it is understood as purely a message of solidarity to the Israeli victims, and not a message of support to the Israeli state for the mass civilian killing it is at this very moment unleashing? And if you express sympathy with the innocent Israeli dead only, is it implicit that you don't have sympathy for the innocent Palestinian dead?
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It is indeed difficult to distinguish between support for innocent victims from support for a state, perhaps a message to convey that in form of an announcement?

I think if you choose to express support for one set of innocent victims and not another then you are, by default, choosing one side over another. Whether that is correct or not, I think it would be a fair judgment.
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So it follows that the FA would have to light up the arch in the colours of the Palestinian flag as well as the Israeli flag, if it were to be morally consistent. And we know that both gestures (regardless of clarifying statements) would unleash howls of fury from people who interpreted them as support for the killing that has been carried out in the name of those flags, rather than sympathy with the respective victims. That fury would be amplified by the ocean of bad faith and tribalism that washes around social media, and what would at best have been a symbolic gesture of good will would risk inflaming community relations in this country as well as abroad.

As someone else mentioned above, it's also politically absolutely unthinkable that the Palestinian flag would be displayed in this way, in this country.

comment by Clever - son son son - 'Ten Haaaagendas p... (U18599)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 26 seconds ago
Interesting, I’ve just read an article on the BBC on that very subject.

Can I also point out that was written well before we knew the full horrors of the Hamas incursion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you now concede that I said nothing of the sort which you attributed to me with direct quotation marks, they were completely fabricated and that you did in fact say exactly what I quoted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bonky in the mud AGAIN. Plastic and a liar

Must run in the fabric of being a city fan

Well played Sat Nav. Well played


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We don’t really need anyone with your stunted intellect on this thread, stick to wumming scousers.

Comment deleted by Article Creator

The decision taken by the FA is actually the correct one. It is a complex situation. Hamas didn't attack in a vacuum. Palestinians have been killed and attacked by IDF and Settler Terrorists throughout the year. Just yesterday another such attacked happened in the west bank and when Palestinians defend themselves, the IDF shoots to kill them.

So lighting up the arches would have meant the lives of Palestinians does not matter. Only the lives of Israelis do. We have this in out political parties where there is near silence on the atrocities that Israel has and continues to carry out. The fact that the action they have taken in response to Hamas consistutes a war crime and the language they used would be nothing different from a certain period of Germany and even the US on their Black citizens and there is no we support your right to respond but we will not support you in war crimes is missing from the likes of the US and the UK.

I have not seen anyone complain about any lighting of the arches in the Palestinian flag colours after they had their own pogrom and terrorist attack by Settlers (backed by IDF).

comment by Never Mind the Defending: Here’s Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool (U3979)
posted 45 minutes ago
What happened in Kfar Aza was one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever seen happen. Beheading babies?!

I get why people have a general distaste towards Israel for sure, but put that to one side and recognise how hideous what happened in that town was. If you fail to do that then it’s not anti-Israel, it’s just anti-semitism.
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Fully agreed. And I'm sure you'll agree that killing babies with airstrikes and mortars is on the same moral level as killing them at close range.

What's problematic about the idea of lighting up the arch in the colours of Israel is that this is the flag of both (most of) the child victims of Hamas's warped idea of collective punishment, and the flag of the military that is killing Palestinian children using the same logic of collective responsibility. And we know it will be understood by many as a gesture in support of both the victims and the military response, and therefore in support of killing babies, as well as in protest at killing babies. If we want to send a message that all children's lives matter, regardless of the community they are born in, I don't think showing solidarity with one side is the answer.

I should say not lighting up the arches in the Palestinian flag colours.

Is the beheading of the babies actually been independently verified?

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
Jewish Brits? Why would Jewish Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish care about what the English FA do?
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Because they're part of the UK.

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
Jewish Brits? Why would Jewish Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish care about what the English FA do?
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Because they're part of the UK.
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Never mind, I've read through and seen you are dense

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
Minute silence for the victims of the terrorist attack - absolutely.
Showing support for a particular “side” in what is a hugely complex situation - no thank you.
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This.

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
Minute silence for the victims of the terrorist attack - absolutely.
Showing support for a particular “side” in what is a hugely complex situation - no thank you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not what you said

comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 7 minutes ago
Is the beheading of the babies actually been independently verified?
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There was a lot of reporting that made a big splash without verification, and some concerns that the original source was a partisan propagandist, but yesterday I saw some suggestions that there was verification of some cases. There's so much misinformation flying around that I think it's sensible to be cautious, but on the same note, I don't think it has been debunked.

While the natural reaction to these stories is the deepest disgust, I think we have a moral duty to engage our reason. Not to minimise our disgust, which is absolutely correct. But to guard against the temptation to insulate ourselves from ethical complacency as a result. It's easy enough in human nature to react to savagery by wanting terrible revenge on the culprits, and in that emotion to forget about the fine distinctions between the individuals responsible and the community they came from. Moreover, it's quite easy, given the way we humans are wired, to fail to respond with the same visceral shock and utter disgust when a baby is killed, unseen, in the rubble of a flattened building, and when the act of killing is performed at a long distance. I'm sure it's easier on a psychological level to press a button that kills someone a mile away than to look into their eyes and
physically swing a blade at their body - this must be part of why one feels so much more unthinkable than the other, and inspires more horror. But ethically, it's exactly the same thing. We mustn't get into a position where we see one of them is absolute evil and the other less so.

Ban enough being a WUM but to use this crisis to enable your WUMness is nauseating

This conflict has been going on for 75 years, it’s not going to be solved by flag waving or on a football chat forum.


Solidarity with all innocent victims on both sides and for everyone who just wants peace.

Who’s wumming, Dickerson again?

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
Jewish Brits? Why would Jewish Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish care about what the English FA do?

+++

Good question. As a (secular) English British person I dont really care what the English FA get up to or see any importance of what they think or who they support regarding this conflict. They certainly dont represent me. Or the UK nation for that matter.

What do we make of this?

—

Quite right too. If they lit up that for support of Israel they’d have to do it many times for the atrocities Israel committed.

Reap what you sow sadly

Emir of Qatar has said he will stop the export of gas if the bombing of Palestine continues.

Could be bad news for the West. United in particular.