You're being completely naive that this is a recent problem. What occurred in 1948? Israel was attacked by every Arab country around it. There have been multiple wars since and many Arabs view the destruction of Israel in its entirety as a noble goal.
=====
What happened before 1948? What happened in 1995? What happened... blah blah blah...
Fact is, it's is Palestinians living under apartheid which inevitably leads to violent uprising. If they could be given their rights and treated like humans first then that would be a good start.
Human rights are not negotiable and are unconditional. Why? To avoid violent uprisings.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club... (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
Wasn't the beheading babies story debunked? What planet has this guy been living on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it hasn’t been debunked in the same way we still don’t know who fired the rocket yesterday. There is a reason they say the first casualty of war is the truth.
It is undeniable that Hamas killed children, absolutely proven. We have video of them killing unarmed and injured Israeli female soldiers. We have proof of them killing civilians doing no more than lying in their beds. We have proof of them parading bodies and hostages through streets of Gaza. Hamas must have known that Israel is not going to take that lightly - I mean what the faaaavk did they think would happen?
The only side I am on in this is that of the dead children on both sides who did absolutely nothing wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the story hasn't been debunked nor proven.
I won't trust the IDF on this as they're no more trustful than Hamas. Ironically though, Israel has broken majority of any ceasefire agreements they have made than Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, which makes the taking of sides on this matter preposterous, both have done wrong and both have seen innocents killed because of it.
There really should only be one side here and that’s peace.
Now what achieves that peace is a completely different question - it looks an almost impossible situation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
Then Israel, like now has an enemy on its doorstep who has a manifesto to destroy them - with less security for their own people who have just witnessed circa 1500 innocents slaughtered by Hamas
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My argument stands and yours fails as there is no guarantee of the destruction of Hamas and its hateful manifesto even with greater freedom for Palestine
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your argument is that because Israel are stronger than Hamas, the destruction of all Jews and Israel is an acceptable goal?
====
What? No. What have I said to even give that idea? The fack is wrong with you?
My argument is that Israel are the initial aggressor and occupier, overseeing apartheid over Palestinians and if they could please stop doing that then there'd be no reason for Hamas to exist and peace would have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Hamas are a rejection of the two state solution as I said. They would always exist thanks to religious extremism. It's either a willful ignorance of history or a deliberate choice to label one side "the aggressor" as the violence has existed since the fall of the ottoman empire.
I also don't know why people feel the need to "take sides". This isn't two football teams. There is plenty of blame to be apportioned, Hamas are despicable religious lunatics. Netanyahu is a right wing loon who should be in prison.
At the end of the day, no one wins.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 11 minutes ago
I think it’s fair to say that Israel were not expecting Hamas to slaughter innocent children in barbaric ways
=====
Israel have been slaughtering Palestinian women and children from decades while in schools and hospitals etc. Their slaughtering of Palestinians is one of the reasons Hamas came into existence.
Why would they then expect Hamas not to return the favour in kind?
You're making some weird points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Look what happened to Rachel corrie
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
Wasn't the beheading babies story debunked? What planet has this guy been living on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it hasn’t been debunked in the same way we still don’t know who fired the rocket yesterday. There is a reason they say the first casualty of war is the truth.
It is undeniable that Hamas killed children, absolutely proven. We have video of them killing unarmed and injured Israeli female soldiers. We have proof of them killing civilians doing no more than lying in their beds. We have proof of them parading bodies and hostages through streets of Gaza. Hamas must have known that Israel is not going to take that lightly - I mean what the faaaavk did they think would happen?
The only side I am on in this is that of the dead children on both sides who did absolutely nothing wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Israel are a supposed democratic country that has been slaughtering Palestinian women and children for decades. So right back at you, because what did Israel think would happen after occupying and overseeing apartheid over Palestinians. A violent uprising like Hamas is guaranteed to happen in such a scenario as we have seen throughout history every single time without fail.
I don't advocate for killing of innocents of course but this both sides bullsheet is incredible to me. It's Israel that treats Palestinians as sub human. Palestinians want freedom like you and me and Hamas came into existence while Israel watched. What is it that you don't understand there?
Attacks like last Saturday can never be stopped except by granting Palestinians their freedom. If you kill all Hamas and don't solve the root problem then others will just replace them because the reasons for Hamas to exist have not been addressed. Resistance is immortal unless freedom is achieved. Israel is creating future Hamas loyalists as we speak and the cycle will continue. Oppressed people react violently everytime, without fail.
So what are Israel expecting? Palestinians to take it up the rear decade after decade and nothing to ever happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’s fair to say that Israel were not expecting Hamas to slaughter innocent children in barbaric ways. That was a huge misstep bu Hamas - had they just targeted the soldiers then I think the world would have been less divided on this and possibly more supportive of the Palestinian plight.
Slaughtering children and people at peace festivals - has cost them a lot of support, especially in the west and made this even more complicated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you new to this conflict? Slaughtering of children women and non-combatants has been a norm for Israel for decades, including the West Bank where there is no Hamas. No offence, but it appears to only get your news from the likes of CNN, Skynews and the daily star etc. bonkers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And I have been against it for decades. My point was that Hamas seriously miscalculated with what they did - they have drawn sympathy away from the Palestinian plight with their actions.
Their actions have legitimised further conflict and suffering by those that wished to do it anyway - they’ve enabled them by giving them a very good and emotive excuse. Hence why your all say their and saying Sunak and Biden are wrong for backing this etc - there is less support because the public of the UK and US are being shown atrocities committed by Hamas - and public opinion is the name of the game in the west
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
=========
The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. The Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization is the highest executive body of the Palestine Liberation Organization and acts as the government. Hamas were ousted a long time ago.
Remember that Israel refuses to recognise the PLO who are comparatively peaceful and don't even deny Israel's right to exist, preferring to keep violent terrorists Hamas in the news. Why is this so? I think anyone can guess the answer to that.
My goodness, I can see why you hold the opinions you do. You need to educate yourself before commenting further.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
=========
The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. The Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization is the highest executive body of the Palestine Liberation Organization and acts as the government. Hamas were ousted a long time ago.
Remember that Israel refuses to recognise the PLO who are comparatively peaceful and don't even deny Israel's right to exist, preferring to keep violent terrorists Hamas in the news. Why is this so? I think anyone can guess the answer to that.
My goodness, I can see why you hold the opinions you do. You need to educate yourself before commenting further.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you seriously unaware that Hamas govern Gaza?
There is no point us discussing if you are not aware of this basic fact
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your argument is that because Israel are stronger than Hamas, the destruction of all Jews and Israel is an acceptable goal?
====
What? No. What have I said to even give that idea? The fack is wrong with you?
My argument is that Israel are the initial aggressor and occupier, overseeing apartheid over Palestinians and if they could please stop doing that then there'd be no reason for Hamas to exist and peace would have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Hamas are a rejection of the two state solution as I said. They would always exist thanks to religious extremism. It's either a willful ignorance of history or a deliberate choice to label one side "the aggressor" as the violence has existed since the fall of the ottoman empire.
I also don't know why people feel the need to "take sides". This isn't two football teams. There is plenty of blame to be apportioned, Hamas are despicable religious lunatics. Netanyahu is a right wing loon who should be in prison.
At the end of the day, no one wins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a good thing then that Hamas is not Palestine. You saying they would always exist doesn't change the historical record for why and how they came into existence.
I think there's more valid debates than which side is the original aggressor as it's clearly Israel that controls the Palestinians and denies them basic human rights, treating them as second class humans from the time Israel came into existence.
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
=========
The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. The Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization is the highest executive body of the Palestine Liberation Organization and acts as the government. Hamas were ousted a long time ago.
Remember that Israel refuses to recognise the PLO who are comparatively peaceful and don't even deny Israel's right to exist, preferring to keep violent terrorists Hamas in the news. Why is this so? I think anyone can guess the answer to that.
My goodness, I can see why you hold the opinions you do. You need to educate yourself before commenting further.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you seriously unaware that Hamas govern Gaza?
There is no point us discussing if you are not aware of this basic fact
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your argument is that because Israel are stronger than Hamas, the destruction of all Jews and Israel is an acceptable goal?
====
What? No. What have I said to even give that idea? The fack is wrong with you?
My argument is that Israel are the initial aggressor and occupier, overseeing apartheid over Palestinians and if they could please stop doing that then there'd be no reason for Hamas to exist and peace would have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Hamas are a rejection of the two state solution as I said. They would always exist thanks to religious extremism. It's either a willful ignorance of history or a deliberate choice to label one side "the aggressor" as the violence has existed since the fall of the ottoman empire.
I also don't know why people feel the need to "take sides". This isn't two football teams. There is plenty of blame to be apportioned, Hamas are despicable religious lunatics. Netanyahu is a right wing loon who should be in prison.
At the end of the day, no one wins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy clearly has a side and that’s the issue. Most sensible people I have met on this debate do not have a side - because at the end of the day neither “side” will ever back down, and both have points for and against.
This will still be an issue in a 1000 years time as Palestinians will never leave what they see as their homeland and the same goes for the Israelis. Israel will remain the dominant military force and with US backing that won’t change - so what are we going to do, keep slaughtering innocent people on both sides or try and find some sort of balance and peace? I know which I would prefer
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
9 September 1993. In their correspondence, Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat agreed to begin cooperating towards a peaceful solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, renounced Palestinian militancy and terrorism, and accepted UNSC Resolution 242 and UNSC Resolution 338. Israel recognized the PLO as a legitimate authority representing the Palestinian people and agreed to commence comprehensive negotiations for the Israeli–Palestinian peace process.
This was the closest we've ever come to peace. What happened?
Rabin was murdered by his own country men, Israelis. I asked you politely to educate yourself and not comment again until you do.
That's why it will never end you genius. They won't let it end.
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yasser Arafat turned down a deal in 2000 and an even better deal in 2008 which included more land.
But yes, this is why it can never end and anybody taking sides is naive at best, the shoe on the other foot it'd be no different.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yasser Arafat turned down a deal in 2000 and an even better deal in 2008 which included more land.
But yes, this is why it can never end and anybody taking sides is naive at best, the shoe on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullsheet
Arafat accepted everything Israel wanted in the mid 90s. What did Israel do? They assassinated their own leader to stop it happening.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have our first Hamas supporter.
comment by Robb - Under Neon Loneliness (U22716)
posted 12 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance of Kungfu Bao Bun (U23079)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb - Give Peace a Chance (U22716)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think we should wait and see what Ben Shapiro says as he’s shown over the past few days on Twitter he’s a very objective and reliable person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He clearly isn't, he peddles misinformation, like you did the other day but a number of your colleagues put you straight before you made a swift exit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Objective is a word very few people would label at Shapiro. He is a Trump stooge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whooosh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always act this way. You are like an angry teenager.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robb - Under Neon Loneliness (U22716)
posted 12 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance of Kungfu Bao Bun (U23079)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb - Give Peace a Chance (U22716)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think we should wait and see what Ben Shapiro says as he’s shown over the past few days on Twitter he’s a very objective and reliable person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He clearly isn't, he peddles misinformation, like you did the other day but a number of your colleagues put you straight before you made a swift exit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Objective is a word very few people would label at Shapiro. He is a Trump stooge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whooosh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always act this way. You are like an angry teenager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you not understand sarcasm? You’re like an angry old man
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have our first Hamas supporter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing he said here shows support for Hamas. Such an accusation is when you want to shut someone down. I'd be careful about shouting wolf too many times.
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have our first Hamas supporter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing he said here shows support for Hamas. Such an accusation is when you want to shut someone down. I'd be careful about shouting wolf too many times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He agrees with them existing and appears to support their right to ‘retaliate’ as he sees it.
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have our first Hamas supporter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing he said here shows support for Hamas. Such an accusation is when you want to shut someone down. I'd be careful about shouting wolf too many times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ask him if he wants the end of Hamas?
Two wrongs don't make a right. Disgusting from both sides. Can't see the logic behind Hamas beleiving this will strengthen them. They've played right into Israels hands if what people believe is true and they wanted this.
For the sake of radicalising a few more terrorsits to kill innocent civilians? They'll just be further from what they want with less territory etc whilst practically justifying Israels desires/response (in their eyes) im sure.
No winners really and who lose the most? the innocent civilians .
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yasser Arafat turned down a deal in 2000 and an even better deal in 2008 which included more land.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but it's completely inexcusable to be this wrong when there's a clear diplomatic record.
What happened in 2000 was that the 'deal' on offer to Arafat was unacceptable by any reasonable measure. Clinton conceded this by late 2000 and set about new "parameters" by which discussions would have to proceed... and they did, in Taba in early 2001.
I can't remember his name (but could find it if you want the reference), but an EU delegate produced a very thorough paper on the talks, which both sides agreed was an accurate assessment of the talks. The outline of a deal was more or less in place, with some details to be hashed out. Israel then called it off and never returned to the table.
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Israel bombed hospital
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posted on 18/10/23
You're being completely naive that this is a recent problem. What occurred in 1948? Israel was attacked by every Arab country around it. There have been multiple wars since and many Arabs view the destruction of Israel in its entirety as a noble goal.
=====
What happened before 1948? What happened in 1995? What happened... blah blah blah...
Fact is, it's is Palestinians living under apartheid which inevitably leads to violent uprising. If they could be given their rights and treated like humans first then that would be a good start.
Human rights are not negotiable and are unconditional. Why? To avoid violent uprisings.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club... (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
Wasn't the beheading babies story debunked? What planet has this guy been living on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it hasn’t been debunked in the same way we still don’t know who fired the rocket yesterday. There is a reason they say the first casualty of war is the truth.
It is undeniable that Hamas killed children, absolutely proven. We have video of them killing unarmed and injured Israeli female soldiers. We have proof of them killing civilians doing no more than lying in their beds. We have proof of them parading bodies and hostages through streets of Gaza. Hamas must have known that Israel is not going to take that lightly - I mean what the faaaavk did they think would happen?
The only side I am on in this is that of the dead children on both sides who did absolutely nothing wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the story hasn't been debunked nor proven.
I won't trust the IDF on this as they're no more trustful than Hamas. Ironically though, Israel has broken majority of any ceasefire agreements they have made than Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed, which makes the taking of sides on this matter preposterous, both have done wrong and both have seen innocents killed because of it.
There really should only be one side here and that’s peace.
Now what achieves that peace is a completely different question - it looks an almost impossible situation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
Then Israel, like now has an enemy on its doorstep who has a manifesto to destroy them - with less security for their own people who have just witnessed circa 1500 innocents slaughtered by Hamas
posted on 18/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My argument stands and yours fails as there is no guarantee of the destruction of Hamas and its hateful manifesto even with greater freedom for Palestine
posted on 18/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your argument is that because Israel are stronger than Hamas, the destruction of all Jews and Israel is an acceptable goal?
====
What? No. What have I said to even give that idea? The fack is wrong with you?
My argument is that Israel are the initial aggressor and occupier, overseeing apartheid over Palestinians and if they could please stop doing that then there'd be no reason for Hamas to exist and peace would have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Hamas are a rejection of the two state solution as I said. They would always exist thanks to religious extremism. It's either a willful ignorance of history or a deliberate choice to label one side "the aggressor" as the violence has existed since the fall of the ottoman empire.
I also don't know why people feel the need to "take sides". This isn't two football teams. There is plenty of blame to be apportioned, Hamas are despicable religious lunatics. Netanyahu is a right wing loon who should be in prison.
At the end of the day, no one wins.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 11 minutes ago
I think it’s fair to say that Israel were not expecting Hamas to slaughter innocent children in barbaric ways
=====
Israel have been slaughtering Palestinian women and children from decades while in schools and hospitals etc. Their slaughtering of Palestinians is one of the reasons Hamas came into existence.
Why would they then expect Hamas not to return the favour in kind?
You're making some weird points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Look what happened to Rachel corrie
posted on 18/10/23
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
Wasn't the beheading babies story debunked? What planet has this guy been living on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it hasn’t been debunked in the same way we still don’t know who fired the rocket yesterday. There is a reason they say the first casualty of war is the truth.
It is undeniable that Hamas killed children, absolutely proven. We have video of them killing unarmed and injured Israeli female soldiers. We have proof of them killing civilians doing no more than lying in their beds. We have proof of them parading bodies and hostages through streets of Gaza. Hamas must have known that Israel is not going to take that lightly - I mean what the faaaavk did they think would happen?
The only side I am on in this is that of the dead children on both sides who did absolutely nothing wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Israel are a supposed democratic country that has been slaughtering Palestinian women and children for decades. So right back at you, because what did Israel think would happen after occupying and overseeing apartheid over Palestinians. A violent uprising like Hamas is guaranteed to happen in such a scenario as we have seen throughout history every single time without fail.
I don't advocate for killing of innocents of course but this both sides bullsheet is incredible to me. It's Israel that treats Palestinians as sub human. Palestinians want freedom like you and me and Hamas came into existence while Israel watched. What is it that you don't understand there?
Attacks like last Saturday can never be stopped except by granting Palestinians their freedom. If you kill all Hamas and don't solve the root problem then others will just replace them because the reasons for Hamas to exist have not been addressed. Resistance is immortal unless freedom is achieved. Israel is creating future Hamas loyalists as we speak and the cycle will continue. Oppressed people react violently everytime, without fail.
So what are Israel expecting? Palestinians to take it up the rear decade after decade and nothing to ever happen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’s fair to say that Israel were not expecting Hamas to slaughter innocent children in barbaric ways. That was a huge misstep bu Hamas - had they just targeted the soldiers then I think the world would have been less divided on this and possibly more supportive of the Palestinian plight.
Slaughtering children and people at peace festivals - has cost them a lot of support, especially in the west and made this even more complicated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you new to this conflict? Slaughtering of children women and non-combatants has been a norm for Israel for decades, including the West Bank where there is no Hamas. No offence, but it appears to only get your news from the likes of CNN, Skynews and the daily star etc. bonkers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And I have been against it for decades. My point was that Hamas seriously miscalculated with what they did - they have drawn sympathy away from the Palestinian plight with their actions.
Their actions have legitimised further conflict and suffering by those that wished to do it anyway - they’ve enabled them by giving them a very good and emotive excuse. Hence why your all say their and saying Sunak and Biden are wrong for backing this etc - there is less support because the public of the UK and US are being shown atrocities committed by Hamas - and public opinion is the name of the game in the west
posted on 18/10/23
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
=========
The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. The Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization is the highest executive body of the Palestine Liberation Organization and acts as the government. Hamas were ousted a long time ago.
Remember that Israel refuses to recognise the PLO who are comparatively peaceful and don't even deny Israel's right to exist, preferring to keep violent terrorists Hamas in the news. Why is this so? I think anyone can guess the answer to that.
My goodness, I can see why you hold the opinions you do. You need to educate yourself before commenting further.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
=========
The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. The Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization is the highest executive body of the Palestine Liberation Organization and acts as the government. Hamas were ousted a long time ago.
Remember that Israel refuses to recognise the PLO who are comparatively peaceful and don't even deny Israel's right to exist, preferring to keep violent terrorists Hamas in the news. Why is this so? I think anyone can guess the answer to that.
My goodness, I can see why you hold the opinions you do. You need to educate yourself before commenting further.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you seriously unaware that Hamas govern Gaza?
There is no point us discussing if you are not aware of this basic fact
posted on 18/10/23
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your argument is that because Israel are stronger than Hamas, the destruction of all Jews and Israel is an acceptable goal?
====
What? No. What have I said to even give that idea? The fack is wrong with you?
My argument is that Israel are the initial aggressor and occupier, overseeing apartheid over Palestinians and if they could please stop doing that then there'd be no reason for Hamas to exist and peace would have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Hamas are a rejection of the two state solution as I said. They would always exist thanks to religious extremism. It's either a willful ignorance of history or a deliberate choice to label one side "the aggressor" as the violence has existed since the fall of the ottoman empire.
I also don't know why people feel the need to "take sides". This isn't two football teams. There is plenty of blame to be apportioned, Hamas are despicable religious lunatics. Netanyahu is a right wing loon who should be in prison.
At the end of the day, no one wins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a good thing then that Hamas is not Palestine. You saying they would always exist doesn't change the historical record for why and how they came into existence.
I think there's more valid debates than which side is the original aggressor as it's clearly Israel that controls the Palestinians and denies them basic human rights, treating them as second class humans from the time Israel came into existence.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
The issue is how do Israel ensure their safety? The Palestinians voted Hamas in back in 2006 and there have not been elections since - what if they A) continue to vote for Hamas or more likely B) do not have the chance to vote Hamas out.
=========
The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. The Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization is the highest executive body of the Palestine Liberation Organization and acts as the government. Hamas were ousted a long time ago.
Remember that Israel refuses to recognise the PLO who are comparatively peaceful and don't even deny Israel's right to exist, preferring to keep violent terrorists Hamas in the news. Why is this so? I think anyone can guess the answer to that.
My goodness, I can see why you hold the opinions you do. You need to educate yourself before commenting further.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you seriously unaware that Hamas govern Gaza?
There is no point us discussing if you are not aware of this basic fact
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 18/10/23
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your argument is that because Israel are stronger than Hamas, the destruction of all Jews and Israel is an acceptable goal?
====
What? No. What have I said to even give that idea? The fack is wrong with you?
My argument is that Israel are the initial aggressor and occupier, overseeing apartheid over Palestinians and if they could please stop doing that then there'd be no reason for Hamas to exist and peace would have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Hamas are a rejection of the two state solution as I said. They would always exist thanks to religious extremism. It's either a willful ignorance of history or a deliberate choice to label one side "the aggressor" as the violence has existed since the fall of the ottoman empire.
I also don't know why people feel the need to "take sides". This isn't two football teams. There is plenty of blame to be apportioned, Hamas are despicable religious lunatics. Netanyahu is a right wing loon who should be in prison.
At the end of the day, no one wins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy clearly has a side and that’s the issue. Most sensible people I have met on this debate do not have a side - because at the end of the day neither “side” will ever back down, and both have points for and against.
This will still be an issue in a 1000 years time as Palestinians will never leave what they see as their homeland and the same goes for the Israelis. Israel will remain the dominant military force and with US backing that won’t change - so what are we going to do, keep slaughtering innocent people on both sides or try and find some sort of balance and peace? I know which I would prefer
posted on 18/10/23
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
posted on 18/10/23
9 September 1993. In their correspondence, Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat agreed to begin cooperating towards a peaceful solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, renounced Palestinian militancy and terrorism, and accepted UNSC Resolution 242 and UNSC Resolution 338. Israel recognized the PLO as a legitimate authority representing the Palestinian people and agreed to commence comprehensive negotiations for the Israeli–Palestinian peace process.
This was the closest we've ever come to peace. What happened?
Rabin was murdered by his own country men, Israelis. I asked you politely to educate yourself and not comment again until you do.
posted on 18/10/23
That's why it will never end you genius. They won't let it end.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yasser Arafat turned down a deal in 2000 and an even better deal in 2008 which included more land.
But yes, this is why it can never end and anybody taking sides is naive at best, the shoe on the other foot it'd be no different.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yasser Arafat turned down a deal in 2000 and an even better deal in 2008 which included more land.
But yes, this is why it can never end and anybody taking sides is naive at best, the shoe on the other foot it'd be no different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullsheet
Arafat accepted everything Israel wanted in the mid 90s. What did Israel do? They assassinated their own leader to stop it happening.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have our first Hamas supporter.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Robb - Under Neon Loneliness (U22716)
posted 12 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance of Kungfu Bao Bun (U23079)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb - Give Peace a Chance (U22716)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think we should wait and see what Ben Shapiro says as he’s shown over the past few days on Twitter he’s a very objective and reliable person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He clearly isn't, he peddles misinformation, like you did the other day but a number of your colleagues put you straight before you made a swift exit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Objective is a word very few people would label at Shapiro. He is a Trump stooge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whooosh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always act this way. You are like an angry teenager.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robb - Under Neon Loneliness (U22716)
posted 12 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Vengeance of Kungfu Bao Bun (U23079)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb - Give Peace a Chance (U22716)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think we should wait and see what Ben Shapiro says as he’s shown over the past few days on Twitter he’s a very objective and reliable person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He clearly isn't, he peddles misinformation, like you did the other day but a number of your colleagues put you straight before you made a swift exit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Objective is a word very few people would label at Shapiro. He is a Trump stooge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whooosh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you always act this way. You are like an angry teenager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you not understand sarcasm? You’re like an angry old man
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have our first Hamas supporter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing he said here shows support for Hamas. Such an accusation is when you want to shut someone down. I'd be careful about shouting wolf too many times.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have our first Hamas supporter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing he said here shows support for Hamas. Such an accusation is when you want to shut someone down. I'd be careful about shouting wolf too many times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He agrees with them existing and appears to support their right to ‘retaliate’ as he sees it.
posted on 18/10/23
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Clive Bissel (U22987)
posted 1 minute ago
Guys, do we really need to take sides?
Both sides are killing kids FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a equal war. Palestine does not have a army they are being oppressed by Isrealis for years. The attack on Israel is a consequence of those apartheid policies. In what way is Israels response equal? They openly admit that they to not consider palestinians human. The unconditional backing of Israel by the West is a huge barrier to finding a peaceful resolution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally the Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it and they have the means to try it as we have seen. Israel is a country surrounded by enemies that want them gone - the only thing that stops the others from wiping them out is their US backed, vastly superior army - it’s why Iran won’t aactually do anything directly, the US have a couple of destroyers out there that could wipe them off the face of the earth, so instead they (in my opinion) incite matters instead
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The reason Hamas manifesto has the destruction of the Jews and Israel in it is because Hamas was created to fight back against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Hamas didn't always exist and it is Israel that created and creates the conditions necessary for Hamas to exist and subsist by their treatment of Palestinians. As I pointed out, oppression inevitably leads to violent uprising without fail. They are strengthening future Hamas as we speak because Hamas will have a lot of new recruits once this is over.
Your argument fails there and so it is not an equal war.
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We have our first Hamas supporter.
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Nothing he said here shows support for Hamas. Such an accusation is when you want to shut someone down. I'd be careful about shouting wolf too many times.
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Ask him if he wants the end of Hamas?
posted on 18/10/23
Two wrongs don't make a right. Disgusting from both sides. Can't see the logic behind Hamas beleiving this will strengthen them. They've played right into Israels hands if what people believe is true and they wanted this.
For the sake of radicalising a few more terrorsits to kill innocent civilians? They'll just be further from what they want with less territory etc whilst practically justifying Israels desires/response (in their eyes) im sure.
No winners really and who lose the most? the innocent civilians .
posted on 18/10/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Why? Genuine question. If Palestinians are given their rights and freedoms, equal rights and justice like you and me then the path to peace has been opened and the destruction of Hamas has commenced IMO."
There have been numerous negotiations in the past which allow for this. As recent as the mid-2000's, which were declined.
This is the issue, Palestine will not stop until they have "their" land back, that has been made clear. Neither side want peace, they want to destroy the enemy.
No matter how many peace talks or negotiations take place these attacks will continue, which is why Israel felt the need to protect their people and isolate Hamas.
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This guy bringing the PLO into it earlier - Yasser Arafat “ our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean seas to the Jordan river….. The Palestinian revolutions basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”
This is why this will never end, it is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object, the best we can hope for is both sides to show restraint and start making concessions that make lives better for all of their citizens
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Yasser Arafat turned down a deal in 2000 and an even better deal in 2008 which included more land.
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Sorry but it's completely inexcusable to be this wrong when there's a clear diplomatic record.
What happened in 2000 was that the 'deal' on offer to Arafat was unacceptable by any reasonable measure. Clinton conceded this by late 2000 and set about new "parameters" by which discussions would have to proceed... and they did, in Taba in early 2001.
I can't remember his name (but could find it if you want the reference), but an EU delegate produced a very thorough paper on the talks, which both sides agreed was an accurate assessment of the talks. The outline of a deal was more or less in place, with some details to be hashed out. Israel then called it off and never returned to the table.
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