I posted below late yesterday, so I'll do it again, as it sums up how I feel.
Yesterday was a unique game, both as an occasion, and also as it was against City, where you are most likely going to change how you approach the game if you have an inferior side like ours.
Everything feels double-edged sword to me. We produced our best performance of the season today, but why have we produced so few good performances?
It feels like when you see a lower placed side put in a great performance and people comment 'if they play like that every week, they'll be fine'. Well that's the point they don't so they're not fine, and that same charge can be aimed at us.
There won't be that much change of players next season. Maybe 3 or 4, but the squad will still be 60-70% the same.
We are always going to have injuries. I accept this season was really bad, but it feels like ETH is just going to use this excuse every time. i would have more respect if he actually said, we have so many injuries, but it's still not good enough and we should be doing better.
Injuries do not dictate player effort, or how we should generally approach a game, or how easy it is to play through us. We should still be winning more games, should be producing more of an attacking threat.
I truly believe than any of Poch, Tuchel or McKenna would not do any worse than ETH, and probably a fair bit better.
Of course winning trophies is good, but it's the league that is bread and butter, and you need a certain degree of good fortune to keep doing well in cups.
So thanks for the effort Erik, thanks for giving us a great day today, but I think it's just wasting everyone's time to keep him here next season. Everything fell for us today, but it's hard to suddenly forget the rest of the season.
@kingsang
ETH did say 8th place wasn’t good enough in his post match interview!
Do you know how many different centre back pairings we’ve had this season?
The flip flopping from some United fans since yesterday has been embarrassing .United were a VAR marginal call away from being dumped out of the cup by Coventry - they didn’t even deserve to get to the final
ETH has used the injury excuses relentlessly this season - sure there’s mitigating factors there no doubt, but it doesn’t explain his basketball tactics and being so wide open in his approach. That’s on him. He’ll be binned off and rightly so
What is embarrassing about using all the facts at your disposal to make a decision about a complex situation?
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
comment by RED666…Out on the “Right Wing&rdq... (U6562)
posted 8 minutes ago
@kingsang
ETH did say 8th place wasn’t good enough in his post match interview!
Do you know how many different centre back pairings we’ve had this season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We all know we have had injuries, but that can't be used to excuse everything. ETH is fighting for his job, so I expect him to defend himself rigorously. But there have been periods of the season where we have not been missing all our players and it's all been the same - poor player effort, totally open in midfield, lack of attacking prowess, goals scored etc etc, where has the coaching or tactical nous been all season.
Dare I say, I could almost cope with finishing 8th, if there was genuine progress on the pitch, even just little signs, but getting fortunate for an FA Cup win doesn't excuse all that.
You talk about CB pairings..........so we should shore up the midfield to offer greater protection - yet we did the exact opposite.
We can point the finger at the players, but whether we like it or not, the responsibility always falls on the manager, one great performance yesterday can't wipe out the rest of the season
Interesting that those arguing ETH should be judged on the whole season, not just yesterday, fail to judge him on his whole reign as United manager.
2 seasons, 2 trophies from 3 finals, 3rd and 8th league place finishes, with a hell of a lot of off field stuff to deal with.
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 5 seconds ago
Interesting that those arguing ETH should be judged on the whole season, not just yesterday, fail to judge him on his whole reign as United manager.
2 seasons, 2 trophies from 3 finals, 3rd and 8th league place finishes, with a hell of a lot of off field stuff to deal with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RDD, 🤫
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 5 seconds ago
Interesting that those arguing ETH should be judged on the whole season, not just yesterday, fail to judge him on his whole reign as United manager.
2 seasons, 2 trophies from 3 finals, 3rd and 8th league place finishes, with a hell of a lot of off field stuff to deal with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RDD, 🤫
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why? Have I said anything remotely inflammatory or off topic?
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand this 'to at least start next season' - we either want him as our manager or not. We have got to make tough decisions this summer - either ETH is the right guy or not.
Honestly, if he stays, I will support him and hope he does turn everything around and put my hands up and say I was wrong if that happens.
But I don't think I'm a knee-jerk reaction person - for most of this season I have not felt he is right, very few glimmers of hope, which seem to be more luck than actual great coaching and management, and I think it's time to move on.
I can accept that it could be that Poch, Tuchel or McKenna come in and it doesn't significantly improve, there is no guarantee of anything, but that doesn't mean we don't make that decision.
Finding the right manager isn't easy, I really thought ETH would do a great job, but he just isn't up to it - most managers won't be.
Think Utd have shown in big games this season that they can set up defensively and handle their own counterattacking. In the games vs. the likes of Palace, Fulham, Burnley where they have to be on the front foo, they haven;t been good enough and ge caught defensively.
I am amazed it is even a debate he has to leave. He is a manager who signed Antony and Onana as good enough after working with both of them previously, paying ridiculous amount in the process. Almost all his signings are bad, the next manager has to clean house. The only reason he stayed this long is because of Garnacho and Mainoo. He finished the season 8th with a debt in goal difference. Look what Unai had done at Villa with less money and a clear style of play, now that is a process.
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand this 'to at least start next season' - we either want him as our manager or not. We have got to make tough decisions this summer - either ETH is the right guy or not.
Honestly, if he stays, I will support him and hope he does turn everything around and put my hands up and say I was wrong if that happens.
But I don't think I'm a knee-jerk reaction person - for most of this season I have not felt he is right, very few glimmers of hope, which seem to be more luck than actual great coaching and management, and I think it's time to move on.
I can accept that it could be that Poch, Tuchel or McKenna come in and it doesn't significantly improve, there is no guarantee of anything, but that doesn't mean we don't make that decision.
Finding the right manager isn't easy, I really thought ETH would do a great job, but he just isn't up to it - most managers won't be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I say start the season because I wouldn’t be against him being replaced mid season if the season was going badly, or Ashworth and Co thought they had a better option having had time to assess things.
comment by Zacab (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
I am amazed it is even a debate he has to leave. He is a manager who signed Antony and Onana as good enough after working with both of them previously, paying ridiculous amount in the process. Almost all his signings are bad, the next manager has to clean house. The only reason he stayed this long is because of Garnacho and Mainoo. He finished the season 8th with a debt in goal difference. Look what Unai had done at Villa with less money and a clear style of play, now that is a process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Emery has a far better spine in his squad than United have largely had this season.
Martinez, Torres, Luiz, McGinn, Watkins would all walk into our first 11.
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand this 'to at least start next season' - we either want him as our manager or not. We have got to make tough decisions this summer - either ETH is the right guy or not.
Honestly, if he stays, I will support him and hope he does turn everything around and put my hands up and say I was wrong if that happens.
But I don't think I'm a knee-jerk reaction person - for most of this season I have not felt he is right, very few glimmers of hope, which seem to be more luck than actual great coaching and management, and I think it's time to move on.
I can accept that it could be that Poch, Tuchel or McKenna come in and it doesn't significantly improve, there is no guarantee of anything, but that doesn't mean we don't make that decision.
Finding the right manager isn't easy, I really thought ETH would do a great job, but he just isn't up to it - most managers won't be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I say start the season because I wouldn’t be against him being replaced mid season if the season was going badly, or Ashworth and Co thought they had a better option having had time to assess things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be shocked if they really don't know now whether they want to keep ETH or want a new manager - that is what they are paid the big bucks for, to make these decisions.
Let's be honest, it is hard to envisage Utd making a worse start to next season than what we did this season, under whatever manager.
It just seems that ETH doesn't really have the players really in complete tune with him - no matter what they say during interview, actions and performances on the pitch suggest otherwise, except yesterday's one-off.
I can envisage a scenario where ETH stays and then a dozen games in we say ' it's just like last season'
If he gets sacked he can have no complaints but none of the potential replacements fill me with excitement.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
If he gets sacked he can have no complaints but none of the potential replacements fill me with excitement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess the questions are:
would you rather ETH stay or have Poch, Tuchel or McKenna (I will keep it to those 3)
Who would fill you with excitement?
Forget the manager, the key question to be asked is who is responsible to all those injuries?. Is it just bad luck, is it training intensity, poor physios/sports scientists?.
That needs to be sorted first because no new manager will be able to get the best out of the team with these injuries
People forget the 5hit show he walked into and he’s taken us to 3 finals, winning 2.
It’s not been good enough the last couple of months but he’s also had to contend with injuries to key players (just look at Liverpool last season with supposedly one of the best teams/manager in the world) and player situations like sancho, greenwood, Antony, Ronaldo etc…
I think he should be given next season, it’s not like there’s an elite manager ready and waiting to come in.
And what in all honesty, has Onana done wrong recently? He himself said he took a good 6 months to feel comfortable at United. I think he has been pretty damn good recently.
comment by Deep Fried Bruno-tato (U10011)
posted 53 seconds ago
And what in all honesty, has Onana done wrong recently? He himself said he took a good 6 months to feel comfortable at United. I think he has been pretty damn good recently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jury is still out. As we saw yesterday, he can produce top saves but then have a brain fart moment. Doku should never have scored that
I’m still not convinced EtH is the right man but yesterday did show what a difference it makes having key players back and makes you wonder how our season would have gone had we not been ravaged with injuries. Of course that’s all part of the game and maybe EtHs methods contributed to these injuries. It was also great to see everyone putting in a shift and playing well, whether they were doing that because they back the manager or just cared because it was the final who knows?
My main concern with replacing him now is that I don’t really see anyone who is available who can fix our problems. Poch and Tuchel are both probably better but not ideal while someone like McKenna is far too big a risk.
Some have been crying out for a considered, planned approach under a DOF, and now want to sack our current manager, before the DOF can get in the door.
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 1 minute ago
Some have been crying out for a considered, planned approach under a DOF, and now want to sack our current manager, before the DOF can get in the door.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What makes you think the DoF even wants Ten Hag? There’s every chance they always planned for Ten Hag to go and they could get in their guy which makes total sense.
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
If he gets sacked he can have no complaints but none of the potential replacements fill me with excitement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess the questions are:
would you rather ETH stay or have Poch, Tuchel or McKenna (I will keep it to those 3)
Who would fill you with excitement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None would but I’d rather give ETH his last year and see how it goes instead of appointing any of those.
Sign in if you want to comment
Ten Hag out - still
Page 1 of 4
posted on 26/5/24
I posted below late yesterday, so I'll do it again, as it sums up how I feel.
Yesterday was a unique game, both as an occasion, and also as it was against City, where you are most likely going to change how you approach the game if you have an inferior side like ours.
Everything feels double-edged sword to me. We produced our best performance of the season today, but why have we produced so few good performances?
It feels like when you see a lower placed side put in a great performance and people comment 'if they play like that every week, they'll be fine'. Well that's the point they don't so they're not fine, and that same charge can be aimed at us.
There won't be that much change of players next season. Maybe 3 or 4, but the squad will still be 60-70% the same.
We are always going to have injuries. I accept this season was really bad, but it feels like ETH is just going to use this excuse every time. i would have more respect if he actually said, we have so many injuries, but it's still not good enough and we should be doing better.
Injuries do not dictate player effort, or how we should generally approach a game, or how easy it is to play through us. We should still be winning more games, should be producing more of an attacking threat.
I truly believe than any of Poch, Tuchel or McKenna would not do any worse than ETH, and probably a fair bit better.
Of course winning trophies is good, but it's the league that is bread and butter, and you need a certain degree of good fortune to keep doing well in cups.
So thanks for the effort Erik, thanks for giving us a great day today, but I think it's just wasting everyone's time to keep him here next season. Everything fell for us today, but it's hard to suddenly forget the rest of the season.
posted on 26/5/24
@kingsang
ETH did say 8th place wasn’t good enough in his post match interview!
Do you know how many different centre back pairings we’ve had this season?
posted on 26/5/24
The flip flopping from some United fans since yesterday has been embarrassing .United were a VAR marginal call away from being dumped out of the cup by Coventry - they didn’t even deserve to get to the final
ETH has used the injury excuses relentlessly this season - sure there’s mitigating factors there no doubt, but it doesn’t explain his basketball tactics and being so wide open in his approach. That’s on him. He’ll be binned off and rightly so
posted on 26/5/24
What is embarrassing about using all the facts at your disposal to make a decision about a complex situation?
posted on 26/5/24
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by RED666…Out on the “Right Wing&rdq... (U6562)
posted 8 minutes ago
@kingsang
ETH did say 8th place wasn’t good enough in his post match interview!
Do you know how many different centre back pairings we’ve had this season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We all know we have had injuries, but that can't be used to excuse everything. ETH is fighting for his job, so I expect him to defend himself rigorously. But there have been periods of the season where we have not been missing all our players and it's all been the same - poor player effort, totally open in midfield, lack of attacking prowess, goals scored etc etc, where has the coaching or tactical nous been all season.
Dare I say, I could almost cope with finishing 8th, if there was genuine progress on the pitch, even just little signs, but getting fortunate for an FA Cup win doesn't excuse all that.
You talk about CB pairings..........so we should shore up the midfield to offer greater protection - yet we did the exact opposite.
We can point the finger at the players, but whether we like it or not, the responsibility always falls on the manager, one great performance yesterday can't wipe out the rest of the season
posted on 26/5/24
Interesting that those arguing ETH should be judged on the whole season, not just yesterday, fail to judge him on his whole reign as United manager.
2 seasons, 2 trophies from 3 finals, 3rd and 8th league place finishes, with a hell of a lot of off field stuff to deal with.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 5 seconds ago
Interesting that those arguing ETH should be judged on the whole season, not just yesterday, fail to judge him on his whole reign as United manager.
2 seasons, 2 trophies from 3 finals, 3rd and 8th league place finishes, with a hell of a lot of off field stuff to deal with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RDD, 🤫
posted on 26/5/24
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 5 seconds ago
Interesting that those arguing ETH should be judged on the whole season, not just yesterday, fail to judge him on his whole reign as United manager.
2 seasons, 2 trophies from 3 finals, 3rd and 8th league place finishes, with a hell of a lot of off field stuff to deal with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RDD, 🤫
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why? Have I said anything remotely inflammatory or off topic?
posted on 26/5/24
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand this 'to at least start next season' - we either want him as our manager or not. We have got to make tough decisions this summer - either ETH is the right guy or not.
Honestly, if he stays, I will support him and hope he does turn everything around and put my hands up and say I was wrong if that happens.
But I don't think I'm a knee-jerk reaction person - for most of this season I have not felt he is right, very few glimmers of hope, which seem to be more luck than actual great coaching and management, and I think it's time to move on.
I can accept that it could be that Poch, Tuchel or McKenna come in and it doesn't significantly improve, there is no guarantee of anything, but that doesn't mean we don't make that decision.
Finding the right manager isn't easy, I really thought ETH would do a great job, but he just isn't up to it - most managers won't be.
posted on 26/5/24
Think Utd have shown in big games this season that they can set up defensively and handle their own counterattacking. In the games vs. the likes of Palace, Fulham, Burnley where they have to be on the front foo, they haven;t been good enough and ge caught defensively.
posted on 26/5/24
I am amazed it is even a debate he has to leave. He is a manager who signed Antony and Onana as good enough after working with both of them previously, paying ridiculous amount in the process. Almost all his signings are bad, the next manager has to clean house. The only reason he stayed this long is because of Garnacho and Mainoo. He finished the season 8th with a debt in goal difference. Look what Unai had done at Villa with less money and a clear style of play, now that is a process.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand this 'to at least start next season' - we either want him as our manager or not. We have got to make tough decisions this summer - either ETH is the right guy or not.
Honestly, if he stays, I will support him and hope he does turn everything around and put my hands up and say I was wrong if that happens.
But I don't think I'm a knee-jerk reaction person - for most of this season I have not felt he is right, very few glimmers of hope, which seem to be more luck than actual great coaching and management, and I think it's time to move on.
I can accept that it could be that Poch, Tuchel or McKenna come in and it doesn't significantly improve, there is no guarantee of anything, but that doesn't mean we don't make that decision.
Finding the right manager isn't easy, I really thought ETH would do a great job, but he just isn't up to it - most managers won't be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I say start the season because I wouldn’t be against him being replaced mid season if the season was going badly, or Ashworth and Co thought they had a better option having had time to assess things.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by Zacab (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
I am amazed it is even a debate he has to leave. He is a manager who signed Antony and Onana as good enough after working with both of them previously, paying ridiculous amount in the process. Almost all his signings are bad, the next manager has to clean house. The only reason he stayed this long is because of Garnacho and Mainoo. He finished the season 8th with a debt in goal difference. Look what Unai had done at Villa with less money and a clear style of play, now that is a process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Emery has a far better spine in his squad than United have largely had this season.
Martinez, Torres, Luiz, McGinn, Watkins would all walk into our first 11.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think there were enough mitigating circumstances to allow ETH to at least start the coming season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand this 'to at least start next season' - we either want him as our manager or not. We have got to make tough decisions this summer - either ETH is the right guy or not.
Honestly, if he stays, I will support him and hope he does turn everything around and put my hands up and say I was wrong if that happens.
But I don't think I'm a knee-jerk reaction person - for most of this season I have not felt he is right, very few glimmers of hope, which seem to be more luck than actual great coaching and management, and I think it's time to move on.
I can accept that it could be that Poch, Tuchel or McKenna come in and it doesn't significantly improve, there is no guarantee of anything, but that doesn't mean we don't make that decision.
Finding the right manager isn't easy, I really thought ETH would do a great job, but he just isn't up to it - most managers won't be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I say start the season because I wouldn’t be against him being replaced mid season if the season was going badly, or Ashworth and Co thought they had a better option having had time to assess things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be shocked if they really don't know now whether they want to keep ETH or want a new manager - that is what they are paid the big bucks for, to make these decisions.
Let's be honest, it is hard to envisage Utd making a worse start to next season than what we did this season, under whatever manager.
It just seems that ETH doesn't really have the players really in complete tune with him - no matter what they say during interview, actions and performances on the pitch suggest otherwise, except yesterday's one-off.
I can envisage a scenario where ETH stays and then a dozen games in we say ' it's just like last season'
posted on 26/5/24
If he gets sacked he can have no complaints but none of the potential replacements fill me with excitement.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
If he gets sacked he can have no complaints but none of the potential replacements fill me with excitement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess the questions are:
would you rather ETH stay or have Poch, Tuchel or McKenna (I will keep it to those 3)
Who would fill you with excitement?
posted on 26/5/24
Forget the manager, the key question to be asked is who is responsible to all those injuries?. Is it just bad luck, is it training intensity, poor physios/sports scientists?.
That needs to be sorted first because no new manager will be able to get the best out of the team with these injuries
posted on 26/5/24
People forget the 5hit show he walked into and he’s taken us to 3 finals, winning 2.
It’s not been good enough the last couple of months but he’s also had to contend with injuries to key players (just look at Liverpool last season with supposedly one of the best teams/manager in the world) and player situations like sancho, greenwood, Antony, Ronaldo etc…
I think he should be given next season, it’s not like there’s an elite manager ready and waiting to come in.
posted on 26/5/24
And what in all honesty, has Onana done wrong recently? He himself said he took a good 6 months to feel comfortable at United. I think he has been pretty damn good recently.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by Deep Fried Bruno-tato (U10011)
posted 53 seconds ago
And what in all honesty, has Onana done wrong recently? He himself said he took a good 6 months to feel comfortable at United. I think he has been pretty damn good recently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jury is still out. As we saw yesterday, he can produce top saves but then have a brain fart moment. Doku should never have scored that
posted on 26/5/24
I’m still not convinced EtH is the right man but yesterday did show what a difference it makes having key players back and makes you wonder how our season would have gone had we not been ravaged with injuries. Of course that’s all part of the game and maybe EtHs methods contributed to these injuries. It was also great to see everyone putting in a shift and playing well, whether they were doing that because they back the manager or just cared because it was the final who knows?
My main concern with replacing him now is that I don’t really see anyone who is available who can fix our problems. Poch and Tuchel are both probably better but not ideal while someone like McKenna is far too big a risk.
posted on 26/5/24
Some have been crying out for a considered, planned approach under a DOF, and now want to sack our current manager, before the DOF can get in the door.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 1 minute ago
Some have been crying out for a considered, planned approach under a DOF, and now want to sack our current manager, before the DOF can get in the door.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What makes you think the DoF even wants Ten Hag? There’s every chance they always planned for Ten Hag to go and they could get in their guy which makes total sense.
posted on 26/5/24
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
If he gets sacked he can have no complaints but none of the potential replacements fill me with excitement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess the questions are:
would you rather ETH stay or have Poch, Tuchel or McKenna (I will keep it to those 3)
Who would fill you with excitement?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None would but I’d rather give ETH his last year and see how it goes instead of appointing any of those.
Page 1 of 4