comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 29 minutes ago
I wonder how many times Southgate's had nightmares about that penalty in '96.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must still haunt him to this day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Win Sunday night and those nightmares disappear forever I should imagine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe there's a part of him that would rather do it on penalties than win it 4-0
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Make 1984 fiction again (U8398)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
I think it's often overlooked that Southgate has benefited from the systemic review and subsequent improvements and modernization of the whole thing since 2012. The whole culture and approach change he gets credited with, though I'm sure he's played an important part, we're laid out before him and would've happened anyway. St George's Park, all that.
Like I say, he's clearly done pretty good. But you can't ignore the circumstances or compare what Venables did for example, as if they're the same and because Southgate has got to 2 finals he's objectively better. Cause clearly he's just alright.
The players liking him is nice, it's great. But it's not producing great performances at all or even surprising results. Hopefully that changes on Sundayo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. He has come in at a good time. We are producing better younger players now, something the success at the lower levels attests to. Kids playing on smaller sized pitches wasn't a thing for previous managers. The other countries had this set up for a while. Only recently did this change and I think we're seeing the fruit of it in Southgate's era.
I don't even like the fact he seems to be getting credit for pen shootout success too. So having a better keeper and a better bunch of penalty takers than previous eras means Southgate should be given credit now? For something that has often been considered a lottery, it's now not so much that anymore and it's tactical competence from the manager? He even played a big hand in our failure in the shootout against Italy by bringing players on with no touches of the ball to take pens, and they missed. Pickford even saved 2 pens to set us up to win that.
Now I hear the FA are considering offering him a new contract whether he wins on Sunday or not. That'll look good if we get beaten 3-0.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw this on Twitter, maybe there is more to a penalty shoot out
https://x.com/GeirJordet/status/1810303161405489279
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't underestimate the mammoth task of making international duty a joy again. That's bigger than anything he could have done tactically. International managers don't have a lot of time for drills, it's more about recovery and camaraderie. The key is to put players where they're most comfortable in a system and line up that gets the best out of them. Complex patterns of play in the Guardiola mould are impossible to do with such little time on the pitch to implement. The key is to make them do what they do for their clubs. The system we now have gets more players in roles their more familiar with. Foden more central, Walker in a defensive role that allows him to step into midfield. For all the issues at the start of the tournament GS has now got it right.
He's been to 8 international tournaments as a player and manager. He's very, very experienced in the role and he knows that unless you're tight at the back, you're not winning shiiiit.
I was one of those on his back at the start of the tournament but he's turned it around, performances have improved. Everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time and he's got that but to get rid now seems really daft if he's happy to stay on.
My hunch is that whatever happens on Sunday, he might leave anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like the idea that he would get to decide on whether he stays on or not, if we lose. I mean giving him a contract extension if we lose again anyway just smacks of a loser's mentality from the FA. 4 cracks at it he will have had under very good circumstances to win something and he will have failed. That should not be rewarded.
I want to see someone else with a new style have a go. Someone more attack minded. Honestly we have a golden generation of players again, arguably a stronger squad than the last one and we'd be in danger of wasting it all on one safe manager who is never going to win anything with them, if of course he can't get the job done on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never going to win anything unless we win the whole thing on Sunday
This is your best yet Spurtle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, it all hinges on whether he can win on Sunday for me. Because I severely doubt it's ever going to happen for him with England otherwise. Luck does not last forever.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 15 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
Lucky old Southgate now has 9 wins in the knockouts - to put that into context, that’s more than every other England manager combined since Sir Alf.
Spurtle wants him sacked and replaced with Eddie Howe or Wizard Potter though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Southgate the world class manager according to Strike. But wouldn't touch him if it came to Spurs.
I'm still not seeing why they couldn't do good jobs either? Give them easy qualifying groups, good groups at tournaments, nice draws at KO stages and a top team and see if they do any worse. They might even get us to play better and have a better win % against the higher ranked opponents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are your thoughts about Deschamps, Lowe, Fernando Santos? On an international level they are undeniably world class.
Wouldn't want them at Spurs - I'd much rather the international underachievers like Nagelsmann or Flick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if they are world class or not. I know they have won something at international level though, something Southgate hasn't done yet. Do you think they would have won something with their countries by now were they given the same draws and quality teams Southgate has had? I would say probably yes.
Now if he beats Spain that will obviously change things and he will have to be given credit. So far his tactics in at least two previous tournaments have been our undoing when it came to getting into the World Cup final in 2018 and winning the final at the last Euros. His legacy hinges on this up coming game. If we win and I have my doubts then it shuts me up, and if he doesn't then he has ultimately underachieved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But your point is that he can't be WC if you wouldn't want him at Spurs. Whereas the counter I was suggesting is that as a point that is irrelevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that. I'm just using it as one example why he's not considered that great a manager. Doesn't mean the rule applies to all. Nagelsmann and Flick have done other things in club management to back up why one still might want them at their club.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Make 1984 fiction again (U8398)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
I think it's often overlooked that Southgate has benefited from the systemic review and subsequent improvements and modernization of the whole thing since 2012. The whole culture and approach change he gets credited with, though I'm sure he's played an important part, we're laid out before him and would've happened anyway. St George's Park, all that.
Like I say, he's clearly done pretty good. But you can't ignore the circumstances or compare what Venables did for example, as if they're the same and because Southgate has got to 2 finals he's objectively better. Cause clearly he's just alright.
The players liking him is nice, it's great. But it's not producing great performances at all or even surprising results. Hopefully that changes on Sundayo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. He has come in at a good time. We are producing better younger players now, something the success at the lower levels attests to. Kids playing on smaller sized pitches wasn't a thing for previous managers. The other countries had this set up for a while. Only recently did this change and I think we're seeing the fruit of it in Southgate's era.
I don't even like the fact he seems to be getting credit for pen shootout success too. So having a better keeper and a better bunch of penalty takers than previous eras means Southgate should be given credit now? For something that has often been considered a lottery, it's now not so much that anymore and it's tactical competence from the manager? He even played a big hand in our failure in the shootout against Italy by bringing players on with no touches of the ball to take pens, and they missed. Pickford even saved 2 pens to set us up to win that.
Now I hear the FA are considering offering him a new contract whether he wins on Sunday or not. That'll look good if we get beaten 3-0.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw this on Twitter, maybe there is more to a penalty shoot out
https://x.com/GeirJordet/status/1810303161405489279
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't underestimate the mammoth task of making international duty a joy again. That's bigger than anything he could have done tactically. International managers don't have a lot of time for drills, it's more about recovery and camaraderie. The key is to put players where they're most comfortable in a system and line up that gets the best out of them. Complex patterns of play in the Guardiola mould are impossible to do with such little time on the pitch to implement. The key is to make them do what they do for their clubs. The system we now have gets more players in roles their more familiar with. Foden more central, Walker in a defensive role that allows him to step into midfield. For all the issues at the start of the tournament GS has now got it right.
He's been to 8 international tournaments as a player and manager. He's very, very experienced in the role and he knows that unless you're tight at the back, you're not winning shiiiit.
I was one of those on his back at the start of the tournament but he's turned it around, performances have improved. Everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time and he's got that but to get rid now seems really daft if he's happy to stay on.
My hunch is that whatever happens on Sunday, he might leave anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like the idea that he would get to decide on whether he stays on or not, if we lose. I mean giving him a contract extension if we lose again anyway just smacks of a loser's mentality from the FA. 4 cracks at it he will have had under very good circumstances to win something and he will have failed. That should not be rewarded.
I want to see someone else with a new style have a go. Someone more attack minded. Honestly we have a golden generation of players again, arguably a stronger squad than the last one and we'd be in danger of wasting it all on one safe manager who is never going to win anything with them, if of course he can't get the job done on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never going to win anything unless we win the whole thing on Sunday
This is your best yet Spurtle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, it all hinges on whether he can win on Sunday for me. Because I severely doubt it's ever going to happen for him with England otherwise. Luck does not last forever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming it’s based on luck, or more luck than the rest of the field - I do t think it is.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Make 1984 fiction again (U8398)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
I think it's often overlooked that Southgate has benefited from the systemic review and subsequent improvements and modernization of the whole thing since 2012. The whole culture and approach change he gets credited with, though I'm sure he's played an important part, we're laid out before him and would've happened anyway. St George's Park, all that.
Like I say, he's clearly done pretty good. But you can't ignore the circumstances or compare what Venables did for example, as if they're the same and because Southgate has got to 2 finals he's objectively better. Cause clearly he's just alright.
The players liking him is nice, it's great. But it's not producing great performances at all or even surprising results. Hopefully that changes on Sundayo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. He has come in at a good time. We are producing better younger players now, something the success at the lower levels attests to. Kids playing on smaller sized pitches wasn't a thing for previous managers. The other countries had this set up for a while. Only recently did this change and I think we're seeing the fruit of it in Southgate's era.
I don't even like the fact he seems to be getting credit for pen shootout success too. So having a better keeper and a better bunch of penalty takers than previous eras means Southgate should be given credit now? For something that has often been considered a lottery, it's now not so much that anymore and it's tactical competence from the manager? He even played a big hand in our failure in the shootout against Italy by bringing players on with no touches of the ball to take pens, and they missed. Pickford even saved 2 pens to set us up to win that.
Now I hear the FA are considering offering him a new contract whether he wins on Sunday or not. That'll look good if we get beaten 3-0.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw this on Twitter, maybe there is more to a penalty shoot out
https://x.com/GeirJordet/status/1810303161405489279
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't underestimate the mammoth task of making international duty a joy again. That's bigger than anything he could have done tactically. International managers don't have a lot of time for drills, it's more about recovery and camaraderie. The key is to put players where they're most comfortable in a system and line up that gets the best out of them. Complex patterns of play in the Guardiola mould are impossible to do with such little time on the pitch to implement. The key is to make them do what they do for their clubs. The system we now have gets more players in roles their more familiar with. Foden more central, Walker in a defensive role that allows him to step into midfield. For all the issues at the start of the tournament GS has now got it right.
He's been to 8 international tournaments as a player and manager. He's very, very experienced in the role and he knows that unless you're tight at the back, you're not winning shiiiit.
I was one of those on his back at the start of the tournament but he's turned it around, performances have improved. Everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time and he's got that but to get rid now seems really daft if he's happy to stay on.
My hunch is that whatever happens on Sunday, he might leave anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like the idea that he would get to decide on whether he stays on or not, if we lose. I mean giving him a contract extension if we lose again anyway just smacks of a loser's mentality from the FA. 4 cracks at it he will have had under very good circumstances to win something and he will have failed. That should not be rewarded.
I want to see someone else with a new style have a go. Someone more attack minded. Honestly we have a golden generation of players again, arguably a stronger squad than the last one and we'd be in danger of wasting it all on one safe manager who is never going to win anything with them, if of course he can't get the job done on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never going to win anything unless we win the whole thing on Sunday
This is your best yet Spurtle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, it all hinges on whether he can win on Sunday for me. Because I severely doubt it's ever going to happen for him with England otherwise. Luck does not last forever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its crunch time for "Sir" Gareth
I am very conflicted on Southgate right now. Was always a big defender of him, thought in the previous tournaments he had done all you could ask for - put us in a position where we're in a coin toss situation against a team of similar quality to us (took Croatia to extra time, lost to Italy on penalties, lost to France because of a missed penalty).
Then the start of this tournament I thought he was a complete disaster - the Slovakia game in particular was one of the worst tournament performances Ive seen from England. I felt like he had abandoned a lot of what had made him successful previously - keeping it simple, not forcing the most talented players on to the pitch when it doesn't make sense.
since then though we've gotten better with every game and the team is starting to make more sense, and I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he's right that the group just weren't in a good place from a fitness and mentality perspective at the start of the tournament. It's clear now what he wanted to do this tournament - Use Shaw as a overlapping fullback with a false left winger in front who would move into midfield to give us some more security and ball retention - like a more attacking version of france using Matuidi on the left in 2018.
I think this was really entirely scuppered by Shaw's absence - Southgate said that he would be back for the second group game and normally you would expect a manager to be being intentionally conservative with those kind of claims, so the fact that he didn't come back until the QF must have been a huge shock to Southgate.
Ultimately I still think that it was a mistake to stick with that system when it clearly was not going to work with Trippier as the left back, but I can understand him not wanting to go back to the drawing board and come up with a whole new set up when he eas probably constantly feeling like Shaw was only one game away from coming back.
I don't really like basing your decision to sack a manager on one game but it's hard not to feel like that with Southgate right now.
If we play well and win then I think you just have to write it off as a bad start to a tournament but ultimately something he managed to navigate and he deserves another tournament
if we play well but lose, then I would feel similar to scenario a, with the caveat that you couldn't help but wonder if he was doomed to be a bit of a nearly man if we can't get over the line again
if we play badly - and it becomes clear that we haven't really improved and it's just that the Dutch are as much of a mess as we are, then I think that regardless of if we win or lose then he should be moving on.
Give him a new deal, bring Carsley in as assistant and let him takeover from Southgate after the world cup.
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 13 minutes ago
I am very conflicted on Southgate right now. Was always a big defender of him, thought in the previous tournaments he had done all you could ask for - put us in a position where we're in a coin toss situation against a team of similar quality to us (took Croatia to extra time, lost to Italy on penalties, lost to France because of a missed penalty).
Then the start of this tournament I thought he was a complete disaster - the Slovakia game in particular was one of the worst tournament performances Ive seen from England. I felt like he had abandoned a lot of what had made him successful previously - keeping it simple, not forcing the most talented players on to the pitch when it doesn't make sense.
since then though we've gotten better with every game and the team is starting to make more sense, and I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he's right that the group just weren't in a good place from a fitness and mentality perspective at the start of the tournament. It's clear now what he wanted to do this tournament - Use Shaw as a overlapping fullback with a false left winger in front who would move into midfield to give us some more security and ball retention - like a more attacking version of france using Matuidi on the left in 2018.
I think this was really entirely scuppered by Shaw's absence - Southgate said that he would be back for the second group game and normally you would expect a manager to be being intentionally conservative with those kind of claims, so the fact that he didn't come back until the QF must have been a huge shock to Southgate.
Ultimately I still think that it was a mistake to stick with that system when it clearly was not going to work with Trippier as the left back, but I can understand him not wanting to go back to the drawing board and come up with a whole new set up when he eas probably constantly feeling like Shaw was only one game away from coming back.
I don't really like basing your decision to sack a manager on one game but it's hard not to feel like that with Southgate right now.
If we play well and win then I think you just have to write it off as a bad start to a tournament but ultimately something he managed to navigate and he deserves another tournament
if we play well but lose, then I would feel similar to scenario a, with the caveat that you couldn't help but wonder if he was doomed to be a bit of a nearly man if we can't get over the line again
if we play badly - and it becomes clear that we haven't really improved and it's just that the Dutch are as much of a mess as we are, then I think that regardless of if we win or lose then he should be moving on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have said before and I stand by it, even if we do win Sunday (and I don’t think we will) the one area where the criticism is justified is in the squad selection. I think even if he was pressed on it at a later date that he would agree errors were made.
Shaw is obvious - clearly underestimated the recovery time
Wharton and Gordon - I have no idea why they are here. Gordon I rate highly, but Gareth seems reluctant - surely Rashford, Sterling or Grealish with their experience would have been more useful. Wharton - the guy has proven to be behind Mainoo, Gallagher and Trent at CM - was Wharton really necessary.
No left footed back up - I like Trippier and this is not personal as I think he is a cracking right back, but he is poverty at left back. Not taking another natural left footer was reckless - and to think his detractors call him Safegate.
I just about understand Dunk - presumably he is cover for Stones.
I think there is a legit criticism of his Trent experiment, fine to try it, but it clearly didn’t work, meanwhile Mainoo just grows and grows.
But no manager is perfect and gets everything right and for my money, Southgate has got a damn site more correct than he has wrong.
Yeah if you ignore performances and a lot of really obvious glaring errors in tactics, squad, and team selection, he's great. But hey maybe a lucky manager is what we need
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 32 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a wild take
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 21 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love Kane to have a great game and win the GB that way while also winning his first trophy. A real statement performance to prove his doubters wrong. We know he's capable of those, like his performance against City the other season, or even his performance away to Spain during the Nations League. If he were to win a GB with say another dubious pen like the last game then how poor a showing it would be for GB winner and not really deserved.
Well I certainly have been very critical of GS and like a lot of England fans very frustrated in the bland performances up to Switzerland where although it was another tight affair there was definitely the beginnings of a slightly more adventurous approach which was taken
up another notch or two in pro activeness against the
Dutch aided by an atrocious refereeing decision but
nonetheless a much improved performance that had.Southgate substituted Kane and one other after an
hour I am almost certain the introduction of Watkins and Palmer would have paid dividends much sooner.
The observations by Strike and Christopher especially regarding Shaw I definitely agree with, that being how much a naturally left footed left back is so pivotal to Southgate's set up and how uncharecteristicly reckless of him not to have another one but despite my critusisms I'm almost starting to believe we may win this
blasted competition in typical Southgate style and I will
gladly give him his dues and maybe the avalanche of
critisism aimed at him has ended up improving his tacticsl nous because he must have surely realised after
Slovakia he was extremely fortunate to not be out of a
job and I think he has looked in the last 2 games a little bit more like a coach who knows what he's doing.
Having said all that I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club if the opportunity arises but if we win Sunday I think he'll have another FA enforcement for at least 2
more years which I feared but if he can carry on in his trajectory of slight improvement in a more pro active adventurous style of play then by 2026 we may finally see Palmer, Gordon and Watkins or Toney starting the game instead of rescuing it.
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 32 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a wild take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially when Simon is a better keeper than Pickford. Isn’t carvajal back for the final?
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the... (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 32 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a wild take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially when Simon is a better keeper than Pickford. Isn’t carvajal back for the final?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Span are clear favourites. But England are good enough to steal it.
Who's the referee?
THAT IS THE QUESTION!
Span play good footie but Spain are better!
The ran in span falls manly on the plan
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 4 hours, 43 minutes ago
The ran in span falls manly on the plan
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like it...wot plan?
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 10 hours, 39 minutes ago
Span play good footie but Spain are better!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everybody loves span!
Sign in if you want to comment
Sir Gareth
Page 6 of 6
6
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 29 minutes ago
I wonder how many times Southgate's had nightmares about that penalty in '96.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must still haunt him to this day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Win Sunday night and those nightmares disappear forever I should imagine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe there's a part of him that would rather do it on penalties than win it 4-0
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Make 1984 fiction again (U8398)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
I think it's often overlooked that Southgate has benefited from the systemic review and subsequent improvements and modernization of the whole thing since 2012. The whole culture and approach change he gets credited with, though I'm sure he's played an important part, we're laid out before him and would've happened anyway. St George's Park, all that.
Like I say, he's clearly done pretty good. But you can't ignore the circumstances or compare what Venables did for example, as if they're the same and because Southgate has got to 2 finals he's objectively better. Cause clearly he's just alright.
The players liking him is nice, it's great. But it's not producing great performances at all or even surprising results. Hopefully that changes on Sundayo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. He has come in at a good time. We are producing better younger players now, something the success at the lower levels attests to. Kids playing on smaller sized pitches wasn't a thing for previous managers. The other countries had this set up for a while. Only recently did this change and I think we're seeing the fruit of it in Southgate's era.
I don't even like the fact he seems to be getting credit for pen shootout success too. So having a better keeper and a better bunch of penalty takers than previous eras means Southgate should be given credit now? For something that has often been considered a lottery, it's now not so much that anymore and it's tactical competence from the manager? He even played a big hand in our failure in the shootout against Italy by bringing players on with no touches of the ball to take pens, and they missed. Pickford even saved 2 pens to set us up to win that.
Now I hear the FA are considering offering him a new contract whether he wins on Sunday or not. That'll look good if we get beaten 3-0.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw this on Twitter, maybe there is more to a penalty shoot out
https://x.com/GeirJordet/status/1810303161405489279
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't underestimate the mammoth task of making international duty a joy again. That's bigger than anything he could have done tactically. International managers don't have a lot of time for drills, it's more about recovery and camaraderie. The key is to put players where they're most comfortable in a system and line up that gets the best out of them. Complex patterns of play in the Guardiola mould are impossible to do with such little time on the pitch to implement. The key is to make them do what they do for their clubs. The system we now have gets more players in roles their more familiar with. Foden more central, Walker in a defensive role that allows him to step into midfield. For all the issues at the start of the tournament GS has now got it right.
He's been to 8 international tournaments as a player and manager. He's very, very experienced in the role and he knows that unless you're tight at the back, you're not winning shiiiit.
I was one of those on his back at the start of the tournament but he's turned it around, performances have improved. Everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time and he's got that but to get rid now seems really daft if he's happy to stay on.
My hunch is that whatever happens on Sunday, he might leave anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like the idea that he would get to decide on whether he stays on or not, if we lose. I mean giving him a contract extension if we lose again anyway just smacks of a loser's mentality from the FA. 4 cracks at it he will have had under very good circumstances to win something and he will have failed. That should not be rewarded.
I want to see someone else with a new style have a go. Someone more attack minded. Honestly we have a golden generation of players again, arguably a stronger squad than the last one and we'd be in danger of wasting it all on one safe manager who is never going to win anything with them, if of course he can't get the job done on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never going to win anything unless we win the whole thing on Sunday
This is your best yet Spurtle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, it all hinges on whether he can win on Sunday for me. Because I severely doubt it's ever going to happen for him with England otherwise. Luck does not last forever.
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 15 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
Lucky old Southgate now has 9 wins in the knockouts - to put that into context, that’s more than every other England manager combined since Sir Alf.
Spurtle wants him sacked and replaced with Eddie Howe or Wizard Potter though
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Southgate the world class manager according to Strike. But wouldn't touch him if it came to Spurs.
I'm still not seeing why they couldn't do good jobs either? Give them easy qualifying groups, good groups at tournaments, nice draws at KO stages and a top team and see if they do any worse. They might even get us to play better and have a better win % against the higher ranked opponents.
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What are your thoughts about Deschamps, Lowe, Fernando Santos? On an international level they are undeniably world class.
Wouldn't want them at Spurs - I'd much rather the international underachievers like Nagelsmann or Flick.
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I don't know if they are world class or not. I know they have won something at international level though, something Southgate hasn't done yet. Do you think they would have won something with their countries by now were they given the same draws and quality teams Southgate has had? I would say probably yes.
Now if he beats Spain that will obviously change things and he will have to be given credit. So far his tactics in at least two previous tournaments have been our undoing when it came to getting into the World Cup final in 2018 and winning the final at the last Euros. His legacy hinges on this up coming game. If we win and I have my doubts then it shuts me up, and if he doesn't then he has ultimately underachieved.
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But your point is that he can't be WC if you wouldn't want him at Spurs. Whereas the counter I was suggesting is that as a point that is irrelevant.
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I didn't say that. I'm just using it as one example why he's not considered that great a manager. Doesn't mean the rule applies to all. Nagelsmann and Flick have done other things in club management to back up why one still might want them at their club.
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Make 1984 fiction again (U8398)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
I think it's often overlooked that Southgate has benefited from the systemic review and subsequent improvements and modernization of the whole thing since 2012. The whole culture and approach change he gets credited with, though I'm sure he's played an important part, we're laid out before him and would've happened anyway. St George's Park, all that.
Like I say, he's clearly done pretty good. But you can't ignore the circumstances or compare what Venables did for example, as if they're the same and because Southgate has got to 2 finals he's objectively better. Cause clearly he's just alright.
The players liking him is nice, it's great. But it's not producing great performances at all or even surprising results. Hopefully that changes on Sundayo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. He has come in at a good time. We are producing better younger players now, something the success at the lower levels attests to. Kids playing on smaller sized pitches wasn't a thing for previous managers. The other countries had this set up for a while. Only recently did this change and I think we're seeing the fruit of it in Southgate's era.
I don't even like the fact he seems to be getting credit for pen shootout success too. So having a better keeper and a better bunch of penalty takers than previous eras means Southgate should be given credit now? For something that has often been considered a lottery, it's now not so much that anymore and it's tactical competence from the manager? He even played a big hand in our failure in the shootout against Italy by bringing players on with no touches of the ball to take pens, and they missed. Pickford even saved 2 pens to set us up to win that.
Now I hear the FA are considering offering him a new contract whether he wins on Sunday or not. That'll look good if we get beaten 3-0.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw this on Twitter, maybe there is more to a penalty shoot out
https://x.com/GeirJordet/status/1810303161405489279
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Don't underestimate the mammoth task of making international duty a joy again. That's bigger than anything he could have done tactically. International managers don't have a lot of time for drills, it's more about recovery and camaraderie. The key is to put players where they're most comfortable in a system and line up that gets the best out of them. Complex patterns of play in the Guardiola mould are impossible to do with such little time on the pitch to implement. The key is to make them do what they do for their clubs. The system we now have gets more players in roles their more familiar with. Foden more central, Walker in a defensive role that allows him to step into midfield. For all the issues at the start of the tournament GS has now got it right.
He's been to 8 international tournaments as a player and manager. He's very, very experienced in the role and he knows that unless you're tight at the back, you're not winning shiiiit.
I was one of those on his back at the start of the tournament but he's turned it around, performances have improved. Everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time and he's got that but to get rid now seems really daft if he's happy to stay on.
My hunch is that whatever happens on Sunday, he might leave anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like the idea that he would get to decide on whether he stays on or not, if we lose. I mean giving him a contract extension if we lose again anyway just smacks of a loser's mentality from the FA. 4 cracks at it he will have had under very good circumstances to win something and he will have failed. That should not be rewarded.
I want to see someone else with a new style have a go. Someone more attack minded. Honestly we have a golden generation of players again, arguably a stronger squad than the last one and we'd be in danger of wasting it all on one safe manager who is never going to win anything with them, if of course he can't get the job done on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never going to win anything unless we win the whole thing on Sunday
This is your best yet Spurtle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, it all hinges on whether he can win on Sunday for me. Because I severely doubt it's ever going to happen for him with England otherwise. Luck does not last forever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming it’s based on luck, or more luck than the rest of the field - I do t think it is.
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Passion Power - Make 1984 fiction again (U8398)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
I think it's often overlooked that Southgate has benefited from the systemic review and subsequent improvements and modernization of the whole thing since 2012. The whole culture and approach change he gets credited with, though I'm sure he's played an important part, we're laid out before him and would've happened anyway. St George's Park, all that.
Like I say, he's clearly done pretty good. But you can't ignore the circumstances or compare what Venables did for example, as if they're the same and because Southgate has got to 2 finals he's objectively better. Cause clearly he's just alright.
The players liking him is nice, it's great. But it's not producing great performances at all or even surprising results. Hopefully that changes on Sundayo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. He has come in at a good time. We are producing better younger players now, something the success at the lower levels attests to. Kids playing on smaller sized pitches wasn't a thing for previous managers. The other countries had this set up for a while. Only recently did this change and I think we're seeing the fruit of it in Southgate's era.
I don't even like the fact he seems to be getting credit for pen shootout success too. So having a better keeper and a better bunch of penalty takers than previous eras means Southgate should be given credit now? For something that has often been considered a lottery, it's now not so much that anymore and it's tactical competence from the manager? He even played a big hand in our failure in the shootout against Italy by bringing players on with no touches of the ball to take pens, and they missed. Pickford even saved 2 pens to set us up to win that.
Now I hear the FA are considering offering him a new contract whether he wins on Sunday or not. That'll look good if we get beaten 3-0.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw this on Twitter, maybe there is more to a penalty shoot out
https://x.com/GeirJordet/status/1810303161405489279
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't underestimate the mammoth task of making international duty a joy again. That's bigger than anything he could have done tactically. International managers don't have a lot of time for drills, it's more about recovery and camaraderie. The key is to put players where they're most comfortable in a system and line up that gets the best out of them. Complex patterns of play in the Guardiola mould are impossible to do with such little time on the pitch to implement. The key is to make them do what they do for their clubs. The system we now have gets more players in roles their more familiar with. Foden more central, Walker in a defensive role that allows him to step into midfield. For all the issues at the start of the tournament GS has now got it right.
He's been to 8 international tournaments as a player and manager. He's very, very experienced in the role and he knows that unless you're tight at the back, you're not winning shiiiit.
I was one of those on his back at the start of the tournament but he's turned it around, performances have improved. Everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time and he's got that but to get rid now seems really daft if he's happy to stay on.
My hunch is that whatever happens on Sunday, he might leave anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like the idea that he would get to decide on whether he stays on or not, if we lose. I mean giving him a contract extension if we lose again anyway just smacks of a loser's mentality from the FA. 4 cracks at it he will have had under very good circumstances to win something and he will have failed. That should not be rewarded.
I want to see someone else with a new style have a go. Someone more attack minded. Honestly we have a golden generation of players again, arguably a stronger squad than the last one and we'd be in danger of wasting it all on one safe manager who is never going to win anything with them, if of course he can't get the job done on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never going to win anything unless we win the whole thing on Sunday
This is your best yet Spurtle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, it all hinges on whether he can win on Sunday for me. Because I severely doubt it's ever going to happen for him with England otherwise. Luck does not last forever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its crunch time for "Sir" Gareth
posted on 12/7/24
I am very conflicted on Southgate right now. Was always a big defender of him, thought in the previous tournaments he had done all you could ask for - put us in a position where we're in a coin toss situation against a team of similar quality to us (took Croatia to extra time, lost to Italy on penalties, lost to France because of a missed penalty).
Then the start of this tournament I thought he was a complete disaster - the Slovakia game in particular was one of the worst tournament performances Ive seen from England. I felt like he had abandoned a lot of what had made him successful previously - keeping it simple, not forcing the most talented players on to the pitch when it doesn't make sense.
since then though we've gotten better with every game and the team is starting to make more sense, and I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he's right that the group just weren't in a good place from a fitness and mentality perspective at the start of the tournament. It's clear now what he wanted to do this tournament - Use Shaw as a overlapping fullback with a false left winger in front who would move into midfield to give us some more security and ball retention - like a more attacking version of france using Matuidi on the left in 2018.
I think this was really entirely scuppered by Shaw's absence - Southgate said that he would be back for the second group game and normally you would expect a manager to be being intentionally conservative with those kind of claims, so the fact that he didn't come back until the QF must have been a huge shock to Southgate.
Ultimately I still think that it was a mistake to stick with that system when it clearly was not going to work with Trippier as the left back, but I can understand him not wanting to go back to the drawing board and come up with a whole new set up when he eas probably constantly feeling like Shaw was only one game away from coming back.
I don't really like basing your decision to sack a manager on one game but it's hard not to feel like that with Southgate right now.
If we play well and win then I think you just have to write it off as a bad start to a tournament but ultimately something he managed to navigate and he deserves another tournament
if we play well but lose, then I would feel similar to scenario a, with the caveat that you couldn't help but wonder if he was doomed to be a bit of a nearly man if we can't get over the line again
if we play badly - and it becomes clear that we haven't really improved and it's just that the Dutch are as much of a mess as we are, then I think that regardless of if we win or lose then he should be moving on.
posted on 12/7/24
Give him a new deal, bring Carsley in as assistant and let him takeover from Southgate after the world cup.
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 13 minutes ago
I am very conflicted on Southgate right now. Was always a big defender of him, thought in the previous tournaments he had done all you could ask for - put us in a position where we're in a coin toss situation against a team of similar quality to us (took Croatia to extra time, lost to Italy on penalties, lost to France because of a missed penalty).
Then the start of this tournament I thought he was a complete disaster - the Slovakia game in particular was one of the worst tournament performances Ive seen from England. I felt like he had abandoned a lot of what had made him successful previously - keeping it simple, not forcing the most talented players on to the pitch when it doesn't make sense.
since then though we've gotten better with every game and the team is starting to make more sense, and I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he's right that the group just weren't in a good place from a fitness and mentality perspective at the start of the tournament. It's clear now what he wanted to do this tournament - Use Shaw as a overlapping fullback with a false left winger in front who would move into midfield to give us some more security and ball retention - like a more attacking version of france using Matuidi on the left in 2018.
I think this was really entirely scuppered by Shaw's absence - Southgate said that he would be back for the second group game and normally you would expect a manager to be being intentionally conservative with those kind of claims, so the fact that he didn't come back until the QF must have been a huge shock to Southgate.
Ultimately I still think that it was a mistake to stick with that system when it clearly was not going to work with Trippier as the left back, but I can understand him not wanting to go back to the drawing board and come up with a whole new set up when he eas probably constantly feeling like Shaw was only one game away from coming back.
I don't really like basing your decision to sack a manager on one game but it's hard not to feel like that with Southgate right now.
If we play well and win then I think you just have to write it off as a bad start to a tournament but ultimately something he managed to navigate and he deserves another tournament
if we play well but lose, then I would feel similar to scenario a, with the caveat that you couldn't help but wonder if he was doomed to be a bit of a nearly man if we can't get over the line again
if we play badly - and it becomes clear that we haven't really improved and it's just that the Dutch are as much of a mess as we are, then I think that regardless of if we win or lose then he should be moving on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have said before and I stand by it, even if we do win Sunday (and I don’t think we will) the one area where the criticism is justified is in the squad selection. I think even if he was pressed on it at a later date that he would agree errors were made.
Shaw is obvious - clearly underestimated the recovery time
Wharton and Gordon - I have no idea why they are here. Gordon I rate highly, but Gareth seems reluctant - surely Rashford, Sterling or Grealish with their experience would have been more useful. Wharton - the guy has proven to be behind Mainoo, Gallagher and Trent at CM - was Wharton really necessary.
No left footed back up - I like Trippier and this is not personal as I think he is a cracking right back, but he is poverty at left back. Not taking another natural left footer was reckless - and to think his detractors call him Safegate.
I just about understand Dunk - presumably he is cover for Stones.
I think there is a legit criticism of his Trent experiment, fine to try it, but it clearly didn’t work, meanwhile Mainoo just grows and grows.
But no manager is perfect and gets everything right and for my money, Southgate has got a damn site more correct than he has wrong.
posted on 12/7/24
Yeah if you ignore performances and a lot of really obvious glaring errors in tactics, squad, and team selection, he's great. But hey maybe a lucky manager is what we need
posted on 12/7/24
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
posted on 12/7/24
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 32 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a wild take
posted on 12/7/24
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 21 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love Kane to have a great game and win the GB that way while also winning his first trophy. A real statement performance to prove his doubters wrong. We know he's capable of those, like his performance against City the other season, or even his performance away to Spain during the Nations League. If he were to win a GB with say another dubious pen like the last game then how poor a showing it would be for GB winner and not really deserved.
posted on 12/7/24
Well I certainly have been very critical of GS and like a lot of England fans very frustrated in the bland performances up to Switzerland where although it was another tight affair there was definitely the beginnings of a slightly more adventurous approach which was taken
up another notch or two in pro activeness against the
Dutch aided by an atrocious refereeing decision but
nonetheless a much improved performance that had.Southgate substituted Kane and one other after an
hour I am almost certain the introduction of Watkins and Palmer would have paid dividends much sooner.
The observations by Strike and Christopher especially regarding Shaw I definitely agree with, that being how much a naturally left footed left back is so pivotal to Southgate's set up and how uncharecteristicly reckless of him not to have another one but despite my critusisms I'm almost starting to believe we may win this
blasted competition in typical Southgate style and I will
gladly give him his dues and maybe the avalanche of
critisism aimed at him has ended up improving his tacticsl nous because he must have surely realised after
Slovakia he was extremely fortunate to not be out of a
job and I think he has looked in the last 2 games a little bit more like a coach who knows what he's doing.
Having said all that I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club if the opportunity arises but if we win Sunday I think he'll have another FA enforcement for at least 2
more years which I feared but if he can carry on in his trajectory of slight improvement in a more pro active adventurous style of play then by 2026 we may finally see Palmer, Gordon and Watkins or Toney starting the game instead of rescuing it.
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 32 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a wild take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially when Simon is a better keeper than Pickford. Isn’t carvajal back for the final?
posted on 12/7/24
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the... (U19119)
posted 2 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 32 minutes ago
I will keep saying it England are Manchester City. Far richer than anyone else and almost have an unfair advantage with the riches avaliable.
We should have won something by now and we should win Sunday.
Simon is a bang average goalkeeper and flappy. Navas or Nacho at right back should be on toast.
Kane only needs one goal to win the Golden Boot dependent on what Olmo does. He will score to win it guarenteed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a wild take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially when Simon is a better keeper than Pickford. Isn’t carvajal back for the final?
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Span are clear favourites. But England are good enough to steal it.
Who's the referee?
THAT IS THE QUESTION!
posted on 12/7/24
Span play good footie but Spain are better!
posted on 12/7/24
The ran in span falls manly on the plan
posted on 13/7/24
comment by Bãleș left boot can't stand Spain (U22081)
posted 4 hours, 43 minutes ago
The ran in span falls manly on the plan
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I like it...wot plan?
posted on 13/7/24
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 10 hours, 39 minutes ago
Span play good footie but Spain are better!
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Everybody loves span!
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