comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah he’s just pulling figures out of his arrze
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's taken the time to explain where he's coming from which I appreciate.
I've not seen things get this bad since the 80s so I'm consciously trying to understand everyone's viewpoint.
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline.
====
Man up and stop crying FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not crying mate, just pointing out that your bitter ramblings are little more than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naaah, there is no reasonable explanation for your bias, which I've exposed here, and said exposition has led to a personal attack. Very common outcome when dealing with geniuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
please highlight my "personal attack" and I will apologise
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline.
====
Man up and stop crying FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not crying mate, just pointing out that your bitter ramblings are little more than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naaah, there is no reasonable explanation for your bias, which I've exposed here, and said exposition has led to a personal attack. Very common outcome when dealing with geniuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
please highlight my "personal attack" and I will apologise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline."
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline.
====
Man up and stop crying FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not crying mate, just pointing out that your bitter ramblings are little more than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naaah, there is no reasonable explanation for your bias, which I've exposed here, and said exposition has led to a personal attack. Very common outcome when dealing with geniuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
please highlight my "personal attack" and I will apologise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How precious.
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must have missed that. Ask again.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must have missed that. Ask again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I already know the prognosis of this, and there's literally nothing you can say to absolve yourself as it's so clear cut, so never mind.
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must have missed that. Ask again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I already know the prognosis of this, and there's literally nothing you can say to absolve yourself as it's so clear cut, so never mind.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WTF. Stop talking riddles...what question did you ask me? I read back. couldnt see one.
Now, you've assumed to know my answer to a question that you havent even asked
Mrs Devonshire, is that you?
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 minutes ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 seconds ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no bias mate.
If you care to read through my earlier posts you will see that I state that asylum is not a problem in this country and we should be able to cope with the numbers we get. Yes they are higher than in eras passed but that is the world now. We're a wealthy country so should be able to open our doors to a degree.
The other main point i have made is that that the vast majority of immigration is economic. Numbers are too high because we do not have the space and infrastructure to cope with such influxes, and that is a problem that goes beyond migration and speaks more generally about the structural issues in our economy and housing market etc.
We need to be able to better control numbers and better target what we need and that is across the board as we need everything from low skilled to highly skilled workers
All these things i have said. I am not challenging immigration levels because i am a xenophobe (which seems to be your assumption) It needs better control because this country currently has neither the infrastructure or the housing to cope with the current net intake. It is unsustainable. It is also unsustainable to have little or no input because we lack skills in many areas.
As an example, there is a housing shortage in this country. in 2023 there were 158k completed new homes. Net migration was 685k. That is a very simple but effective demonstration of how this massive imbalance will continue to drive house prices up, making them even less affordable, continue to drive the rental market up, having the same impact and putting pressure on other areas
I work in the property development industry. The new Govt have targeted 300k new homes every year for 5 years and to achieve this they are looking at building on green belt and countryside. That's because we are highly constrained for land.
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
The UK has many issues and its complex...although not in your mind, you seem to think anyone who speaks on immigration is a xenophobe / racist brainwashed by the Daily Mail or worse fearful that some foreign lot are going to come here and take away Christmas.
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 15 hours, 10 minutes ago
It’s hard to get granted asylum in the UK because we don’t process applications.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We approved 75% of applications last year.
Germany only granted protection for 49,862 (less than the UK and had 4x more applicants).
You're talking rubbish.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 minutes ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 seconds ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no bias mate.
If you care to read through my earlier posts you will see that I state that asylum is not a problem in this country and we should be able to cope with the numbers we get. Yes they are higher than in eras passed but that is the world now. We're a wealthy country so should be able to open our doors to a degree.
The other main point i have made is that that the vast majority of immigration is economic. Numbers are too high because we do not have the space and infrastructure to cope with such influxes, and that is a problem that goes beyond migration and speaks more generally about the structural issues in our economy and housing market etc.
We need to be able to better control numbers and better target what we need and that is across the board as we need everything from low skilled to highly skilled workers
All these things i have said. I am not challenging immigration levels because i am a xenophobe (which seems to be your assumption) It needs better control because this country currently has neither the infrastructure or the housing to cope with the current net intake. It is unsustainable. It is also unsustainable to have little or no input because we lack skills in many areas.
As an example, there is a housing shortage in this country. in 2023 there were 158k completed new homes. Net migration was 685k. That is a very simple but effective demonstration of how this massive imbalance will continue to drive house prices up, making them even less affordable, continue to drive the rental market up, having the same impact and putting pressure on other areas
I work in the property development industry. The new Govt have targeted 300k new homes every year for 5 years and to achieve this they are looking at building on green belt and countryside. That's because we are highly constrained for land.
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
The UK has many issues and its complex...although not in your mind, you seem to think anyone who speaks on immigration is a xenophobe / racist brainwashed by the Daily Mail or worse fearful that some foreign lot are going to come here and take away Christmas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this makes you a right wing leftist
In 2023, the UK received 67,337 asylum applications, which represented about 84,425 individuals (as some applications include multiple applicants). This marked a slight decrease from 2022, which saw 81,130 applications (Commons Library).
Regarding the outcomes of these applications, 74,172 initial decisions were made in 2023. Among these, approximately 67% (or about 62,336 cases) were granted protection, including refugee status or humanitarian protection. This was a slightly lower grant rate compared to 2022, where 76% of the applications were successful (Gov.uk) (Gov.uk).
_________________________________________
Honestly I think we're doing our bit, whatever the Tories tried to portray.
And it hasn't affected my day to day life so I'm glad we're able to help some folk. The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 22 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
As for how lower numbers of migration are to be implemented; plenty of countries employ a more ‘hostile’ and/or controlled system than we do. So we can look to their guidelines for guidance.
It’s not that tricky.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not that simplistic. There's not a finite amount of money to go round. The majority categories within the net ~700k increase last year are economic contributors. The net impact of immigration is economically positive. They generate economic activity. They generate wealth.
I don't mean to glibly imply that there are no challenges involved in high migration, as the wealth generated by this workforce needs to be reinvested and there's a lag between investment and the appearance of the infrastructure (and this depends on having a government that is interested in long-term investment, which was a colossal failure of the Tory government). But a nuanced conversation has to be about how you match up the net economic boon of immigration (and the fundamental necessity of importing workers when we have a rapidly ageing economy) with the infrastructural challenges caused by population growth. And it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation when everything is framed by an idea of a zero sum game where the country is sharing out one cake which never grows or shrinks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There’s not a finite amount of money to go round? Is that a typo? Because without disastrous consequences, there certainly is a finite amount of money to go round.
Net positive on migration economically is not something that I am contending, hence only referring to infrastructure and housing for that matter.
High immigration numbers being a positive economically is exactly why recent governments since 1997 have allowed such high numbers. It makes the economy look better than it is. GDP looks good, GDP per capita looks somewhat different.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Real GDP per capita* has grown steadily since 1997, despite the two big 'external' shocks (i.e. the 2008 crash followed by the growth-inhibiting austerity policy, and Covid). Figures are here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/mwb6/ukea
Immigration has had a positive impact on our economy. GDP per capita has grown as the population has substantially grown, in other words there *is* more money to go around, we're *not* sharing the same amount of wealth among more people. Our biggest issue as a country is a political resistance to invest for the long-term wellbeing of the country. Successive governments have been guilty of taking short-term decisions (e.g. tax cuts now are more politically beneficial than investments in infrastructure etc. whose effects will be felt well after the next election) as well as an ideological commitment to the idea that the state should get out of the way of private enterprise.
* Real GDP = adjusted for inflation. Without that adjustment it would give the misleading impression that growth has been stupendously high.
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
=====
I get confused sometimes. The UK is the richest, awesome and capable or poor, weak and incapable depending on what agenda someone is driving.
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always find the integration thing a bit amusing when you think about Brits abroad - We barely speak any other languages, we open 'Irish' pubs wherever we go, we populate the same areas and create expat communities. These are generalisations of course, but yet we expect anyone who comes to our shores to mingle and fit in.
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 7 minutes ago
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
=====
I get confused sometimes. The UK is the richest, awesome and capable or poor, weak and incapable depending on what agenda someone is driving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's relative.
To some immigrants, we will be a wealthier, awesome democratic country providing much greater opportunity, compared to where they are coming from.
To many natives, we're a shambles, poorly run and incapable with key infrastructure and finances creaking at the seams and useless politicians.
These views can co-exist.
All views co exist. The question is whether both can be true at the same time.
If the richest country in earth, or thereabouts can argue a lack of space or infrastructure in an endeavour to avoid immigration, then what about the poorer countries?
When countries have to absorb refugees, they usually don't have a choice on things like that. Also, there will never be enough space and infrastructure. It's a silly unachievable goal IMO.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always find the integration thing a bit amusing when you think about Brits abroad - We barely speak any other languages, we open 'Irish' pubs wherever we go, we populate the same areas and create expat communities. These are generalisations of course, but yet we expect anyone who comes to our shores to mingle and fit in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really comparable imo. British population is under .1% of the Spanish population. Islam alone in the uk is 7% of the population.
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
All views co exist. The question is whether both can be true at the same time.
If the richest country in earth, or thereabouts can argue a lack of space or infrastructure in an endeavour to avoid immigration, then what about the poorer countries?
When countries have to absorb refugees, they usually don't have a choice on things like that. Also, there will never be enough space and infrastructure. It's a silly unachievable goal IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet something we did have for decades no?
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always find the integration thing a bit amusing when you think about Brits abroad - We barely speak any other languages, we open 'Irish' pubs wherever we go, we populate the same areas and create expat communities. These are generalisations of course, but yet we expect anyone who comes to our shores to mingle and fit in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really comparable imo. British population is under .1% of the Spanish population. Islam alone in the uk is 7% of the population.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine was just a playful comment..
You seem to be confusing religion with nationality.
Was just easy numbers to find. Not readily available to find nationalities. More ethnicity. Asian population in uk is 10%.
Can also swap English expats to Christian if you’d like, which would not really work as Spain is a Christian country too.
Sign in if you want to comment
Immigration
Page 8 of 11
7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah he’s just pulling figures out of his arrze
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's taken the time to explain where he's coming from which I appreciate.
I've not seen things get this bad since the 80s so I'm consciously trying to understand everyone's viewpoint.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline.
====
Man up and stop crying FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not crying mate, just pointing out that your bitter ramblings are little more than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naaah, there is no reasonable explanation for your bias, which I've exposed here, and said exposition has led to a personal attack. Very common outcome when dealing with geniuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
please highlight my "personal attack" and I will apologise
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline.
====
Man up and stop crying FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not crying mate, just pointing out that your bitter ramblings are little more than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naaah, there is no reasonable explanation for your bias, which I've exposed here, and said exposition has led to a personal attack. Very common outcome when dealing with geniuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
please highlight my "personal attack" and I will apologise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline."
posted on 31/7/24
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline.
====
Man up and stop crying FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not crying mate, just pointing out that your bitter ramblings are little more than that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naaah, there is no reasonable explanation for your bias, which I've exposed here, and said exposition has led to a personal attack. Very common outcome when dealing with geniuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
please highlight my "personal attack" and I will apologise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only "state on mind" in play here is yours that everyone is trying to use figures to paint a false picture about what the problem is and how much of a problem it is. The discussion on here has been pretty reasonable and considered and you are the main exception with an aggressive and accusatory tone. You haven't moved the debate on whatsoever, you've basically called people liars, xenophobes etc accused them of spinning everything like a Daily Mail headline."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How precious.
posted on 31/7/24
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must have missed that. Ask again.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must have missed that. Ask again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I already know the prognosis of this, and there's literally nothing you can say to absolve yourself as it's so clear cut, so never mind.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm also asking you a question which it seems you are pretending not to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must have missed that. Ask again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I already know the prognosis of this, and there's literally nothing you can say to absolve yourself as it's so clear cut, so never mind.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WTF. Stop talking riddles...what question did you ask me? I read back. couldnt see one.
Now, you've assumed to know my answer to a question that you havent even asked
Mrs Devonshire, is that you?
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 minutes ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 seconds ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no bias mate.
If you care to read through my earlier posts you will see that I state that asylum is not a problem in this country and we should be able to cope with the numbers we get. Yes they are higher than in eras passed but that is the world now. We're a wealthy country so should be able to open our doors to a degree.
The other main point i have made is that that the vast majority of immigration is economic. Numbers are too high because we do not have the space and infrastructure to cope with such influxes, and that is a problem that goes beyond migration and speaks more generally about the structural issues in our economy and housing market etc.
We need to be able to better control numbers and better target what we need and that is across the board as we need everything from low skilled to highly skilled workers
All these things i have said. I am not challenging immigration levels because i am a xenophobe (which seems to be your assumption) It needs better control because this country currently has neither the infrastructure or the housing to cope with the current net intake. It is unsustainable. It is also unsustainable to have little or no input because we lack skills in many areas.
As an example, there is a housing shortage in this country. in 2023 there were 158k completed new homes. Net migration was 685k. That is a very simple but effective demonstration of how this massive imbalance will continue to drive house prices up, making them even less affordable, continue to drive the rental market up, having the same impact and putting pressure on other areas
I work in the property development industry. The new Govt have targeted 300k new homes every year for 5 years and to achieve this they are looking at building on green belt and countryside. That's because we are highly constrained for land.
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
The UK has many issues and its complex...although not in your mind, you seem to think anyone who speaks on immigration is a xenophobe / racist brainwashed by the Daily Mail or worse fearful that some foreign lot are going to come here and take away Christmas.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 15 hours, 10 minutes ago
It’s hard to get granted asylum in the UK because we don’t process applications.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We approved 75% of applications last year.
Germany only granted protection for 49,862 (less than the UK and had 4x more applicants).
You're talking rubbish.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 minutes ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 23 seconds ago
How is it precious? I'm not crying about it. I'm just pointing out that you came out with a personal attack because you were cornered and had no logical explain for your clear bias.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no bias mate.
If you care to read through my earlier posts you will see that I state that asylum is not a problem in this country and we should be able to cope with the numbers we get. Yes they are higher than in eras passed but that is the world now. We're a wealthy country so should be able to open our doors to a degree.
The other main point i have made is that that the vast majority of immigration is economic. Numbers are too high because we do not have the space and infrastructure to cope with such influxes, and that is a problem that goes beyond migration and speaks more generally about the structural issues in our economy and housing market etc.
We need to be able to better control numbers and better target what we need and that is across the board as we need everything from low skilled to highly skilled workers
All these things i have said. I am not challenging immigration levels because i am a xenophobe (which seems to be your assumption) It needs better control because this country currently has neither the infrastructure or the housing to cope with the current net intake. It is unsustainable. It is also unsustainable to have little or no input because we lack skills in many areas.
As an example, there is a housing shortage in this country. in 2023 there were 158k completed new homes. Net migration was 685k. That is a very simple but effective demonstration of how this massive imbalance will continue to drive house prices up, making them even less affordable, continue to drive the rental market up, having the same impact and putting pressure on other areas
I work in the property development industry. The new Govt have targeted 300k new homes every year for 5 years and to achieve this they are looking at building on green belt and countryside. That's because we are highly constrained for land.
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
The UK has many issues and its complex...although not in your mind, you seem to think anyone who speaks on immigration is a xenophobe / racist brainwashed by the Daily Mail or worse fearful that some foreign lot are going to come here and take away Christmas.
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Apparently this makes you a right wing leftist
posted on 31/7/24
racist*
posted on 31/7/24
In 2023, the UK received 67,337 asylum applications, which represented about 84,425 individuals (as some applications include multiple applicants). This marked a slight decrease from 2022, which saw 81,130 applications (Commons Library).
Regarding the outcomes of these applications, 74,172 initial decisions were made in 2023. Among these, approximately 67% (or about 62,336 cases) were granted protection, including refugee status or humanitarian protection. This was a slightly lower grant rate compared to 2022, where 76% of the applications were successful (Gov.uk) (Gov.uk).
_________________________________________
Honestly I think we're doing our bit, whatever the Tories tried to portray.
And it hasn't affected my day to day life so I'm glad we're able to help some folk. The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 22 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
As for how lower numbers of migration are to be implemented; plenty of countries employ a more ‘hostile’ and/or controlled system than we do. So we can look to their guidelines for guidance.
It’s not that tricky.
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It's not that simplistic. There's not a finite amount of money to go round. The majority categories within the net ~700k increase last year are economic contributors. The net impact of immigration is economically positive. They generate economic activity. They generate wealth.
I don't mean to glibly imply that there are no challenges involved in high migration, as the wealth generated by this workforce needs to be reinvested and there's a lag between investment and the appearance of the infrastructure (and this depends on having a government that is interested in long-term investment, which was a colossal failure of the Tory government). But a nuanced conversation has to be about how you match up the net economic boon of immigration (and the fundamental necessity of importing workers when we have a rapidly ageing economy) with the infrastructural challenges caused by population growth. And it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation when everything is framed by an idea of a zero sum game where the country is sharing out one cake which never grows or shrinks.
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There’s not a finite amount of money to go round? Is that a typo? Because without disastrous consequences, there certainly is a finite amount of money to go round.
Net positive on migration economically is not something that I am contending, hence only referring to infrastructure and housing for that matter.
High immigration numbers being a positive economically is exactly why recent governments since 1997 have allowed such high numbers. It makes the economy look better than it is. GDP looks good, GDP per capita looks somewhat different.
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Real GDP per capita* has grown steadily since 1997, despite the two big 'external' shocks (i.e. the 2008 crash followed by the growth-inhibiting austerity policy, and Covid). Figures are here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/mwb6/ukea
Immigration has had a positive impact on our economy. GDP per capita has grown as the population has substantially grown, in other words there *is* more money to go around, we're *not* sharing the same amount of wealth among more people. Our biggest issue as a country is a political resistance to invest for the long-term wellbeing of the country. Successive governments have been guilty of taking short-term decisions (e.g. tax cuts now are more politically beneficial than investments in infrastructure etc. whose effects will be felt well after the next election) as well as an ideological commitment to the idea that the state should get out of the way of private enterprise.
* Real GDP = adjusted for inflation. Without that adjustment it would give the misleading impression that growth has been stupendously high.
posted on 31/7/24
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
posted on 31/7/24
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
=====
I get confused sometimes. The UK is the richest, awesome and capable or poor, weak and incapable depending on what agenda someone is driving.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always find the integration thing a bit amusing when you think about Brits abroad - We barely speak any other languages, we open 'Irish' pubs wherever we go, we populate the same areas and create expat communities. These are generalisations of course, but yet we expect anyone who comes to our shores to mingle and fit in.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 7 minutes ago
Amongst our 'peers' UK is comfortably the smallest landmass. Half the size of France, 2/3s the size of Germany.
=====
I get confused sometimes. The UK is the richest, awesome and capable or poor, weak and incapable depending on what agenda someone is driving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's relative.
To some immigrants, we will be a wealthier, awesome democratic country providing much greater opportunity, compared to where they are coming from.
To many natives, we're a shambles, poorly run and incapable with key infrastructure and finances creaking at the seams and useless politicians.
These views can co-exist.
posted on 31/7/24
All views co exist. The question is whether both can be true at the same time.
If the richest country in earth, or thereabouts can argue a lack of space or infrastructure in an endeavour to avoid immigration, then what about the poorer countries?
When countries have to absorb refugees, they usually don't have a choice on things like that. Also, there will never be enough space and infrastructure. It's a silly unachievable goal IMO.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always find the integration thing a bit amusing when you think about Brits abroad - We barely speak any other languages, we open 'Irish' pubs wherever we go, we populate the same areas and create expat communities. These are generalisations of course, but yet we expect anyone who comes to our shores to mingle and fit in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really comparable imo. British population is under .1% of the Spanish population. Islam alone in the uk is 7% of the population.
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 17 minutes ago
All views co exist. The question is whether both can be true at the same time.
If the richest country in earth, or thereabouts can argue a lack of space or infrastructure in an endeavour to avoid immigration, then what about the poorer countries?
When countries have to absorb refugees, they usually don't have a choice on things like that. Also, there will never be enough space and infrastructure. It's a silly unachievable goal IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet something we did have for decades no?
posted on 31/7/24
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Arne Sabah Nur (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The question remains what we do with them once there approved asylum, English lessons, jobs, get them to become a functioning part of society (and paying taxes).
---------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly, the last government drastically cut funding for English tuition for refugees. As a country we complain about lack of integration, failure to learn English, etc. but our actions don't suggest we're not serious about encouraging assimilation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Often you will see failure to integrate being blamed entirely on the immigrants themselves, when perhaps that might not be the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I always find the integration thing a bit amusing when you think about Brits abroad - We barely speak any other languages, we open 'Irish' pubs wherever we go, we populate the same areas and create expat communities. These are generalisations of course, but yet we expect anyone who comes to our shores to mingle and fit in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really comparable imo. British population is under .1% of the Spanish population. Islam alone in the uk is 7% of the population.
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Mine was just a playful comment..
You seem to be confusing religion with nationality.
posted on 31/7/24
Was just easy numbers to find. Not readily available to find nationalities. More ethnicity. Asian population in uk is 10%.
Can also swap English expats to Christian if you’d like, which would not really work as Spain is a Christian country too.
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