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Far Right thugs or patriots

Page 3 of 66

posted on 2/8/24

These thugs are clearly just hateful, mindless idiots.

But i do not think we can ignore that they are the extreme tip of a wider issue and that sensible intelligent debate needs to happen on the issue of immigration otherwise we risk that vacuum being filled by far right voices and we will see the rise in prominence of such views, at a political level.

The vast majority of this country are moderate, tolerant people but if we stifle debate on the pros and cons of immigration, if people are not consulted, then i can only see disharmony growing and far right views gaining greater traction at a political level, as in France and other European countries.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by (K̇ash) - Slot's First Dance - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Slot's First Dance - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 minute ago

London is a cesspool now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
London is quite big, you know...

There are very few places in London that I would feel generally threatened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good for you but that doesn't change that it's gotten worse.
I'm in London all the time, went through West London last week...its disgusting.
Even had to fight off an attacker in Chelsea of all areas two years ago on my way back from a wedding. Chelsea!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did no one attack people in the 70/80s?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strange cherry picking and not really relevant. There's less safe areas now. Thank god for uber.
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Well in the 80s if I walked through certain council areas I would get racially abused, mugged, attacked on. That does not happen now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay? Again not really relevant. I've been racially abused more the last 5 years than ever before in my life. So does that even it out?

posted on 2/8/24

comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
Back in Nick's day the fans of the local football team were synonymous with the NF & BNP

But crime and violence wasn't as bad back then apparently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again no real relevance. Nobody is trying to say we haven't always had crime. Also extremely ignorant painting fans of local football teams with one brush for some strange reason. No relevance and a strange comment.

The degradation of our way of life and our cities and their infrastructure is there for all to see.

I'd ask where you live also?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No you're saying that crime isn't as bad as it was back in your day. It's a rose tinted view that doesn't resemble reality.

Chelsea fans were associated with far right groups like the National Front and latterly the BNP. Are you disputing this?

Sorry Nick but I fine your take on how things used to.be and how things supposedly are now widely inaccurate and based on a rose tinted view of things.

I live in Spain now.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by John McGlashan (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Here is an Index of Multiple Deprivation map of London from 2010 (red means bad):

https://ibb.co/L94dG1Q

Here is the same map from 2019 (latest data):

https://ibb.co/GPK4Ff9

To summarise on the above, there are far fewer areas of dark red in 2019 compared to 2010, showing London is becoming less deprived.

Oh but it's the crime we are more concerned about I hear you say.

Well here is the crime domain from 2015 (again, red bad):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

Compare that to the latest data for crime (2019):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

As you can see, London is getting relatively less deprived over the years and relatively safer.

Compare that with levels of immigration over the same period, the data shows that immigration is making London SAFER.

Your statistically invalided anecdotal "evidence" can now be dismissed.

I now consider the matter to be closed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the criteria? Also in terms of crime, due to less police and the reduction of stop and search etc im not suprised the numbers are lower. Doesn't paint a true reflection though.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by John McGlashan (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
Here is an Index of Multiple Deprivation map of London from 2010 (red means bad):

https://ibb.co/L94dG1Q

Here is the same map from 2019 (latest data):

https://ibb.co/GPK4Ff9

To summarise on the above, there are far fewer areas of dark red in 2019 compared to 2010, showing London is becoming less deprived.

Oh but it's the crime we are more concerned about I hear you say.

Well here is the crime domain from 2015 (again, red bad):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

Compare that to the latest data for crime (2019):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

As you can see, London is getting relatively less deprived over the years and relatively safer.

Compare that with levels of immigration over the same period, the data shows that immigration is making London SAFER.

Your statistically invalided anecdotal "evidence" can now be dismissed.

I now consider the matter to be closed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the one hand, we have the hard, cold, irrefutable statistical evidence, true.

But what you’ve failed to take into account, Barry, are the Daily Express headlines. What do they have to say on the matter?

posted on 2/8/24

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
Back in Nick's day the fans of the local football team were synonymous with the NF & BNP

But crime and violence wasn't as bad back then apparently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again no real relevance. Nobody is trying to say we haven't always had crime. Also extremely ignorant painting fans of local football teams with one brush for some strange reason. No relevance and a strange comment.

The degradation of our way of life and our cities and their infrastructure is there for all to see.

I'd ask where you live also?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No you're saying that crime isn't as bad as it was back in your day. It's a rose tinted view that doesn't resemble reality.

Chelsea fans were associated with far right groups like the National Front and latterly the BNP. Are you disputing this?

Sorry Nick but I fine your take on how things used to.be and how things supposedly are now widely inaccurate and based on a rose tinted view of things.

I live in Spain now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the last sentence sums it up. It seems the people on here who don't see an issue with the degradation of our cities and communities (of all races), lack of policing, and general poor living stands. Live no where near our cities.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by John McGlashan (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
Here is an Index of Multiple Deprivation map of London from 2010 (red means bad):

https://ibb.co/L94dG1Q

Here is the same map from 2019 (latest data):

https://ibb.co/GPK4Ff9

To summarise on the above, there are far fewer areas of dark red in 2019 compared to 2010, showing London is becoming less deprived.

Oh but it's the crime we are more concerned about I hear you say.

Well here is the crime domain from 2015 (again, red bad):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

Compare that to the latest data for crime (2019):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

As you can see, London is getting relatively less deprived over the years and relatively safer.

Compare that with levels of immigration over the same period, the data shows that immigration is making London SAFER.

Your statistically invalided anecdotal "evidence" can now be dismissed.

I now consider the matter to be closed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the criteria? Also in terms of crime, due to less police and the reduction of stop and search etc im not suprised the numbers are lower. Doesn't paint a true reflection though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet your "I experienced this whilst walking down the street once" counts as a fairer reflection of the state of deprivation and crime across London?

No offence, but your experiences are completely invalid in the grand scheme of things. Your existence isn't even important. Maybe to your family and such. But statistically they don't matter either. Only if you gather yourself into a group of say 10,000 or greater, then I will listen to your anecdotes as a group as you will be slightly statistically valid.

Now stop talking to me, individual with anecdotes.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
Back in Nick's day the fans of the local football team were synonymous with the NF & BNP

But crime and violence wasn't as bad back then apparently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
again no real relevance. Nobody is trying to say we haven't always had crime. Also extremely ignorant painting fans of local football teams with one brush for some strange reason. No relevance and a strange comment.

The degradation of our way of life and our cities and their infrastructure is there for all to see.

I'd ask where you live also?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No you're saying that crime isn't as bad as it was back in your day. It's a rose tinted view that doesn't resemble reality.

Chelsea fans were associated with far right groups like the National Front and latterly the BNP. Are you disputing this?

Sorry Nick but I fine your take on how things used to.be and how things supposedly are now widely inaccurate and based on a rose tinted view of things.

I live in Spain now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the last sentence sums it up. It seems the people on here who don't see an issue with the degradation of our cities and communities (of all races), lack of policing, and general poor living stands. Live no where near our cities.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah because living in a UK city is an abstract concept I can't get my head around given I've never done it

We moved for quality of life and work life balance more than anything.

posted on 2/8/24

sorry barry

posted on 2/8/24

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 2/8/24

Is the OP a serious question?

posted on 2/8/24

Have to agree Nick, can only speak from personal experience. I had a wonderful childhood growing up in Hayes in the 60s/early 70's.

How strange. I was going to mention Hayes. I went through Southfall and Hayes as my mrs aunt still lives in Hayes. Wow. Just wow what a place

posted on 2/8/24

From what I've noticed London in recent years is seeing a more noticable divide (it's always been there tbf), so there is plenty of gentrification but at the same time you see far more homelessness and areas turning to sh-t, all happening side by side.

I'm sure this is the case for many major cities round the world. My mate just got back from Vancouver and said it's mental there, you'll be at some swanky restaurant eating outside and there will literally be crowds of people jacking up next to you. Pretty dystopian and depressing.

comment by Silver (U6112)

posted on 2/8/24

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 34 minutes ago
Nick

"It use to be headlines when someone was murdered. Now its not even reported on."

Plenty of murders happened in the past without being reported on in the press or being high profile national news.

This looks like typical back.in my day myopia. I struggle.to believe that murders were reported on more in the days of 3 telly channels, no dedicated news channels, news on 3 times a day prior to internet or social media.

It's possible that murders are reported on as much, perhaps more, but over a wider range of platforms so don't get your attention.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Things are definitely different. Offsetting the lack of TV new output were multiple newspapers back in the day and almost everyone bought one or two a day. Now they whinge about the TV license but that's a tangent we won't go down.

There were definitely murders, knife crime and gangs. Throw in football hooliganism. Insest, child abuse and homosexuality were taboo so much went unreported, dismissed or too sensitive to take action on. Unions had the country in tatters. Teachers leathered kids in school but discipline was generally better.

Now we have 24/7 news. Too much news. And SM speculation dressed up as news. We still have knife crime. Gangs have changed. Hooliganism is sporadic. Demographics are different which people are reacting to.

Early days people welcomed spice shops, restaurants, corner shops open all hours and people wanting to drive buses. Now some resent that they can't always clearly understand their doctor's accent, assuming they can see them in the first place. Many are putting 2+2 and making 5.

Better or worse? Public services seem worse? Overall taxation is highest ever even though headline numbers are lowest ever. People lash out but don't always rationalise or know why.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 16 minutes ago

Also extremely ignorant painting fans of local football teams with one brush for some strange reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just called London a cesspit

Painting an entire capital city with one brush is fine.

posted on 2/8/24

On a wider issue as for for protests I'm not in support of the "hard right" and their methods and views but seems to me that if you dare make any kind of protest these days you are instantly labelled as one of them, particularly if you "dare" raise any kind of issues regarding immigration.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Great post. Everyone at these protests has been labelled by the lefties on here as racists. If you have any concerns about living standards or immigration they label you a racist. By people who don't even live in multicultural areas too no less, or even in the country . There needs to be middle ground here and sensible debate and steps forward.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 16 minutes ago

Also extremely ignorant painting fans of local football teams with one brush for some strange reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just called London a cesspit

Painting an entire capital city with one brush is fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
London is one city. How else would I paint it. I also, if you pulled your head out, said safe areas are getting less frequent. Of course London still has okayish areas, but even they're not as nice as decades gone by. (Kensington, chelsea, richmond etc)

posted on 2/8/24

comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 1 minute ago

London is a cesspool now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
London is quite big, you know...

There are very few places in London that I would feel generally threatened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good for you but that doesn't change that it's gotten worse.
I'm in London all the time, went through West London last week...its disgusting.
Even had to fight off an attacker in Chelsea of all areas two years ago on my way back from a wedding. Chelsea!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
where do you live in London?

comment by Silver (U6112)

posted on 2/8/24

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 3 minutes ago
From what I've noticed London in recent years is seeing a more noticable divide (it's always been there tbf), so there is plenty of gentrification but at the same time you see far more homelessness and areas turning to sh-t, all happening side by side.

I'm sure this is the case for many major cities round the world. My mate just got back from Vancouver and said it's mental there, you'll be at some swanky restaurant eating outside and there will literally be crowds of people jacking up next to you. Pretty dystopian and depressing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would be more fun if they were jacking off.

posted on 2/8/24

We need stronger leaders in power. Starmer is just another people pleaser, who wants gender neutral toilets to appease the weirdos who want to identify as Noddy and act like it's normal ffs.

Instead of building gender neutral toilets and 'stress free' rooms at Universities, how about we actually pass some laws that will get on top of knife crime??

Why don't we let our navy deal with the issues on the channel??

Why don't we mass deport illegal immigrants?

posted on 2/8/24

Having moved out of London this year I can say for me the things which make it gross there are also the things that make it successful, mainly the vast number of people and extreme subscription to any activity you may want to take part in. Can't say I can report any increase in anecdotal crime.

posted on 2/8/24

comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 16 minutes ago

Also extremely ignorant painting fans of local football teams with one brush for some strange reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just called London a cesspit

Painting an entire capital city with one brush is fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
London is one city. How else would I paint it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wtf.... You didn't have to "paint" it with one brush at all.

posted on 2/8/24

On a wider issue as for for protests I'm not in support of the "hard right" and their methods and views but seems to me that if you dare make any kind of protest these days you are instantly labelled as one of them, particularly if you "dare" raise any kind of issues regarding immigration.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Great post. Everyone at these protests has been labelled by the lefties on here as racists. If you have any concerns about living standards or immigration they label you a racist.
----------------
This just isn't true though is it? I think migration needs to be reduced but I've never once been labelled far right.

Why? Because I don't use racist language and try and attack a mosque whilst throwing bricks at police.

I'm sure there were some genuinely concerned/fed up citizens at these protests but when 100+ police officers end up injured and they try and attack a religious building that has literally no connection to the murders other than being seen as foreign, then you can't be surprised they get labelled far right.

posted on 2/8/24

England: We are a complete shiiithole

Scotland: So we should leave as why would we want to be part of a shiithole?

England: NO! We are amazing. You NEED us.

Scotland: OK.

England: We are such a shiiithoole

posted on 2/8/24

comment by John McGlashan (U1734)
posted 14 minutes ago
Here is an Index of Multiple Deprivation map of London from 2010 (red means bad):

https://ibb.co/L94dG1Q

Here is the same map from 2019 (latest data):

https://ibb.co/GPK4Ff9

To summarise on the above, there are far fewer areas of dark red in 2019 compared to 2010, showing London is becoming less deprived.

Oh but it's the crime we are more concerned about I hear you say.

Well here is the crime domain from 2015 (again, red bad):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

Compare that to the latest data for crime (2019):

https://ibb.co/kKYTzfG

As you can see, London is getting relatively less deprived over the years and relatively safer.

Compare that with levels of immigration over the same period, the data shows that immigration is making London SAFER.

Your statistically invalided anecdotal "evidence" can now be dismissed.

I now consider the matter to be closed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

and you think its valid to link completely separate stats on crime and deprivation with Immigration.

That would be like someone concluding that serious knife crime has gone up over the last 5 years, and so has immigration, so it's a result of immigration.

You are on no ground to question the validity of others 'evidence'

Page 3 of 66

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