We don’t have the annual wife beating championships like in Oz
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67110193.amp
Still a long way to go with aboriginal natives though no?
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67110193.amp
Still a long way to go with aboriginal natives though no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh very much so. Unfortunately the reason that vote lost (and it was progressive to even have it in the first place) was the people in rural areas who jettisoned it. The main cities were all for it and I’ll be the first to admit there is a lot to do to make things better for indigenous people. But you’d have to live here to see the positive things that do happen in ways that I just wouldn’t see in the US.
For example little things like trigger/respect disclaimers in front of tv shows to warm indigenous people that deaths happen in the show to welcome to country ceremonies before all sporting events to the bigger things like renaming streets and suburbs back to the original names.
Again, so much more needs to be done but everywhere you look you very much are reminded that whilst things aren’t perfect it’s not a hidden problem. The mainstream media is very much happy to admit there are issues and it’s very much in the culture to want to change things for the better compared to some countries I’ve been to where they won’t even admit some of the problems.
Here everyone knows. Just unfortunately some are caaaants to don’t really care and they’re the ones holding us back.
Robb, one of the things that struck me when I visited earlier this year was the ubiquity of the "acknowledgement of the traditional custodians of the land" language which you see displayed in public buildings, which is spoken at the start of events, etc. For me that seemed quite refreshing - not sure when it started, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't part of the Australia I first encountered via the soap operas of the 80s and 90s. But the few Australians I spoke to about it (all of them white skinned) kind of rolled their eyes at the mention, whether because they saw it as political correctness or as superficial progressive cant that masked lack of effort to address substantive inequalities. I guess we have the same faultlines around sensibilities to language around racism. I tend to think it's not a substitute for dealing with structural issues, but there's also no harm in making our discourse more respectful.
Australia is much more white than the UK
And much more racist
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 40 minutes ago
RR, I know you were here for just a few days but what was your impression of things in relation to this discussion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, didn't see that question straight away. My trip just skimmed the surface of a small part of Australia so I don't think it really qualifies me to say anything. My impressions were positive: infrastructure was good; lots of creativity and small business ventures; very culturally diverse, and people from an immigrant background tended to look prosperous and integrated. But not only can you only intuit so much about the place you've just landed in, but I knew that the parts I was seeing - mainly central Melbourne and its hipster suburbs - weren't representative of a country. If you put a foreigner in Hackney for a week, he'll have a very different impression about the UK and how it sees its past and its future than if you sent him to Clacton.
One thing that did stick out amid this idealised picture: hardly any aboriginal people among this diversity, and those I did see were the poorest and most troubled looking individuals I encountered during my stay.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 đ´ó §ó ˘ó ˇó Źó łó ż (U2462)
posted 51 minutes ago
And another thing Robb...
As United fans nostalgia is all we've got at present so don't try and take that away from us!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
…and…
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 40 minutes ago
RR, I know you were here for just a few days but what was your impression of things in relation to this discussion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, didn't see that question straight away. My trip just skimmed the surface of a small part of Australia so I don't think it really qualifies me to say anything. My impressions were positive: infrastructure was good; lots of creativity and small business ventures; very culturally diverse, and people from an immigrant background tended to look prosperous and integrated. But not only can you only intuit so much about the place you've just landed in, but I knew that the parts I was seeing - mainly central Melbourne and its hipster suburbs - weren't representative of a country. If you put a foreigner in Hackney for a week, he'll have a very different impression about the UK and how it sees its past and its future than if you sent him to Clacton.
One thing that did stick out amid this idealised picture: hardly any aboriginal people among this diversity, and those I did see were the poorest and most troubled looking individuals I encountered during my stay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
đ The indigenous population of Australia is at just 3% of the whole number but as you say it’s very much the most disenfranchised.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
…and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mainly the English but after Australia was set up at the beginning of the last century very little was done to help the indigenous people succeed. The diseases the British brought wiped out many indigenous people and the disease of alcohol killed off many more and that’s still being seen in communities to this day.
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
…and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mainly the English but after Australia was set up at the beginning of the last century very little was done to help the indigenous people succeed. The diseases the British brought wiped out many indigenous people and the disease of alcohol killed off many more and that’s still being seen in communities to this day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob, white Aussies were committing acts of genocide against First Nations people long after federation.
Hundreds were tortured, raaped and murdered in massacres across Australia in the early 20th century.
So the answer to the question is the British and white Australians. Including the parents of some Aussies alive today. You don’t have to go far back to find genocidal acts.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
Nothing wrong with nostalgia, and it's more prevalent as you age of course.
But we should realise we are living in the best of times in Western Europe.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
I largely agree with you, Robb.
To some extent this is an inherent quality. It's natural that a young country like Australia (in its current iteration) will be more future-orientated than a state with millennia of recorded history. To some extent, though, there are cultural factors that entrench past-gazing. For instance, British discourse has spent the last 80 years wallowing in WW2 mythos - we can be rightfully proud of confronting and helping defeat fascism, but too often these sentiments have been co-opted to promote jingoism and self-congratulation, and to avoid useful self-criticism and innovation. Boris Johnson's shtick is a particularly clear example of this: a veneer of Churchillian national provide worn as a cloak to hide lack of substance. I would contrast this with Germany, which as a country spent the post-war years looking back in shame and at the same time thinking more constructively about the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A good point and covered very well in this popular book - highly recommended.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Germans-Do-Better-Grown-Up/dp/1786499789/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1BXAG9ROXSI76&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.N77d0O33tndAynoa7L7ltsvUDe5FrBtDJjcRDmyLhD-jRY4U4CGC3krAf7FIKvf2P5asRSYq6bDaYNQimCKrgWZACnRmf9yUxAJwJS7Nkk4ZXwfai4aiHdRabL-1abin51gJk1BOoQZ8J2Z646oX0C2cg0pj_FmsYkG5tMU6f5-6gCL-p-rd2R7UDF4v5o_PbRz3CY6D3BDMLsLhOmcfBWjwEUKmOmaHHejiWI1XvL4.ratvG_GtC8FI90SuVSPBcpm-ZDol5P3h1_8NQ5a_fEg&dib_tag=se&keywords=germans+do+it+better&qid=1724935226&sprefix=germans+do+it+better%2Caps%2C1466&sr=8-1
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is England more multicultural because it has local white people try and burn down a hotel because brown migrants live in it?
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is England more multicultural because it has local white people try and burn down a hotel because brown migrants live in it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it's more multicultural because it's more ethnically diverse broadly and deeply
And to become that way it's had to and is still overcoming some pretty atrocious inherent racism. Australia will have it's fair share of attrition to become more evolved. Till then you'll get people doing kangaroo hops on the World stage as a tribute to oppressed black people.
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is England more multicultural because it has local white people try and burn down a hotel because brown migrants live in it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it's more multicultural because it's more ethnically diverse broadly and deeply
And to become that way it's had to and is still overcoming some pretty atrocious inherent racism. Australia will have it's fair share of attrition to become more evolved. Till then you'll get people doing kangaroo hops on the World stage as a tribute to oppressed black people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia is very much a multicultural country. I’m assuming you’ve never been here
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm British, and have no interest in a point scoring discussion. I think it's useful to look critically and with nuance at all societies. So I wasn't trying to defend Australia by mentioning its rapidly changing demographics: I just think that's an interesting point to consider, which offsets the generalisation you gave.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
That, I suppose, would explain why the Australian government and Australian public are so well educated about the history of the colonial whities who settled what they decided should be called Australia; about the genocides of 300+ different tribes across the continent; and about the need for meaningful apologies, the recognition of distinct cultural rights and privileges, the return of lands and resources, and the payment of reparations?…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob’s just proving your point with his comments blaming the ‘English’.
The Germans should have tried this trick. When the Federal German Republic was formed in 1949, they could have called it, for instance, the 'Federal Australian Republic' instead. Then they could talk with opprobrium about what the Germans did.
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
That, I suppose, would explain why the Australian government and Australian public are so well educated about the history of the colonial whities who settled what they decided should be called Australia; about the genocides of 300+ different tribes across the continent; and about the need for meaningful apologies, the recognition of distinct cultural rights and privileges, the return of lands and resources, and the payment of reparations?…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob’s just proving your point with his comments blaming the ‘English’.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what you did đ
As rosso and others have touched upon, Australia has an extremely dark past of physical and cultural genocide, which is also much more recent than might be thought.
Even as late as the 1970s, the country still had laws in place allowing the abduction and semi-enslavement of its aboriginal peoples, which would certainly explain at least in part their reluctance to dwell on the past too much.
For anyone interested, Sven Lindqvist's "Terra Nullius" is a very enlightening (albeit depressing) read on the topic.
Sign in if you want to comment
A difference between England and Australia
Page 2 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 29/8/24
We don’t have the annual wife beating championships like in Oz
posted on 29/8/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67110193.amp
Still a long way to go with aboriginal natives though no?
posted on 29/8/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67110193.amp
Still a long way to go with aboriginal natives though no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh very much so. Unfortunately the reason that vote lost (and it was progressive to even have it in the first place) was the people in rural areas who jettisoned it. The main cities were all for it and I’ll be the first to admit there is a lot to do to make things better for indigenous people. But you’d have to live here to see the positive things that do happen in ways that I just wouldn’t see in the US.
For example little things like trigger/respect disclaimers in front of tv shows to warm indigenous people that deaths happen in the show to welcome to country ceremonies before all sporting events to the bigger things like renaming streets and suburbs back to the original names.
Again, so much more needs to be done but everywhere you look you very much are reminded that whilst things aren’t perfect it’s not a hidden problem. The mainstream media is very much happy to admit there are issues and it’s very much in the culture to want to change things for the better compared to some countries I’ve been to where they won’t even admit some of the problems.
Here everyone knows. Just unfortunately some are caaaants to don’t really care and they’re the ones holding us back.
posted on 29/8/24
*who
posted on 29/8/24
Robb, one of the things that struck me when I visited earlier this year was the ubiquity of the "acknowledgement of the traditional custodians of the land" language which you see displayed in public buildings, which is spoken at the start of events, etc. For me that seemed quite refreshing - not sure when it started, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't part of the Australia I first encountered via the soap operas of the 80s and 90s. But the few Australians I spoke to about it (all of them white skinned) kind of rolled their eyes at the mention, whether because they saw it as political correctness or as superficial progressive cant that masked lack of effort to address substantive inequalities. I guess we have the same faultlines around sensibilities to language around racism. I tend to think it's not a substitute for dealing with structural issues, but there's also no harm in making our discourse more respectful.
posted on 29/8/24
Australia is much more white than the UK
And much more racist
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 40 minutes ago
RR, I know you were here for just a few days but what was your impression of things in relation to this discussion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, didn't see that question straight away. My trip just skimmed the surface of a small part of Australia so I don't think it really qualifies me to say anything. My impressions were positive: infrastructure was good; lots of creativity and small business ventures; very culturally diverse, and people from an immigrant background tended to look prosperous and integrated. But not only can you only intuit so much about the place you've just landed in, but I knew that the parts I was seeing - mainly central Melbourne and its hipster suburbs - weren't representative of a country. If you put a foreigner in Hackney for a week, he'll have a very different impression about the UK and how it sees its past and its future than if you sent him to Clacton.
One thing that did stick out amid this idealised picture: hardly any aboriginal people among this diversity, and those I did see were the poorest and most troubled looking individuals I encountered during my stay.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 đ´ó §ó ˘ó ˇó Źó łó ż (U2462)
posted 51 minutes ago
And another thing Robb...
As United fans nostalgia is all we've got at present so don't try and take that away from us!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be
posted on 29/8/24
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
posted on 29/8/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
…and…
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 40 minutes ago
RR, I know you were here for just a few days but what was your impression of things in relation to this discussion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, didn't see that question straight away. My trip just skimmed the surface of a small part of Australia so I don't think it really qualifies me to say anything. My impressions were positive: infrastructure was good; lots of creativity and small business ventures; very culturally diverse, and people from an immigrant background tended to look prosperous and integrated. But not only can you only intuit so much about the place you've just landed in, but I knew that the parts I was seeing - mainly central Melbourne and its hipster suburbs - weren't representative of a country. If you put a foreigner in Hackney for a week, he'll have a very different impression about the UK and how it sees its past and its future than if you sent him to Clacton.
One thing that did stick out amid this idealised picture: hardly any aboriginal people among this diversity, and those I did see were the poorest and most troubled looking individuals I encountered during my stay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
đ The indigenous population of Australia is at just 3% of the whole number but as you say it’s very much the most disenfranchised.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
…and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mainly the English but after Australia was set up at the beginning of the last century very little was done to help the indigenous people succeed. The diseases the British brought wiped out many indigenous people and the disease of alcohol killed off many more and that’s still being seen in communities to this day.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 33 seconds ago
Of course Australia has a past, they just choose to ignore it and the people who have lived on the land the longest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not strictly true . Whilst what the English did to the indigenous people was absolutely shocking and even to this day the inequalities suffered by them needs a lot of work you’d be surprised how much progress has been made with welcome to country ceremonies, name changes of landmarks and locations back to indigenous names and ownership as well as apologies made.
A long way to go but certainly better than the equivalent in the Middle East and the Americas amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English, and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
…and…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mainly the English but after Australia was set up at the beginning of the last century very little was done to help the indigenous people succeed. The diseases the British brought wiped out many indigenous people and the disease of alcohol killed off many more and that’s still being seen in communities to this day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob, white Aussies were committing acts of genocide against First Nations people long after federation.
Hundreds were tortured, raaped and murdered in massacres across Australia in the early 20th century.
posted on 29/8/24
So the answer to the question is the British and white Australians. Including the parents of some Aussies alive today. You don’t have to go far back to find genocidal acts.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
posted on 29/8/24
Nothing wrong with nostalgia, and it's more prevalent as you age of course.
But we should realise we are living in the best of times in Western Europe.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
I largely agree with you, Robb.
To some extent this is an inherent quality. It's natural that a young country like Australia (in its current iteration) will be more future-orientated than a state with millennia of recorded history. To some extent, though, there are cultural factors that entrench past-gazing. For instance, British discourse has spent the last 80 years wallowing in WW2 mythos - we can be rightfully proud of confronting and helping defeat fascism, but too often these sentiments have been co-opted to promote jingoism and self-congratulation, and to avoid useful self-criticism and innovation. Boris Johnson's shtick is a particularly clear example of this: a veneer of Churchillian national provide worn as a cloak to hide lack of substance. I would contrast this with Germany, which as a country spent the post-war years looking back in shame and at the same time thinking more constructively about the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A good point and covered very well in this popular book - highly recommended.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Germans-Do-Better-Grown-Up/dp/1786499789/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1BXAG9ROXSI76&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.N77d0O33tndAynoa7L7ltsvUDe5FrBtDJjcRDmyLhD-jRY4U4CGC3krAf7FIKvf2P5asRSYq6bDaYNQimCKrgWZACnRmf9yUxAJwJS7Nkk4ZXwfai4aiHdRabL-1abin51gJk1BOoQZ8J2Z646oX0C2cg0pj_FmsYkG5tMU6f5-6gCL-p-rd2R7UDF4v5o_PbRz3CY6D3BDMLsLhOmcfBWjwEUKmOmaHHejiWI1XvL4.ratvG_GtC8FI90SuVSPBcpm-ZDol5P3h1_8NQ5a_fEg&dib_tag=se&keywords=germans+do+it+better&qid=1724935226&sprefix=germans+do+it+better%2Caps%2C1466&sr=8-1
posted on 29/8/24
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is England more multicultural because it has local white people try and burn down a hotel because brown migrants live in it?
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is England more multicultural because it has local white people try and burn down a hotel because brown migrants live in it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it's more multicultural because it's more ethnically diverse broadly and deeply
And to become that way it's had to and is still overcoming some pretty atrocious inherent racism. Australia will have it's fair share of attrition to become more evolved. Till then you'll get people doing kangaroo hops on the World stage as a tribute to oppressed black people.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Robb Raygun (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is England more multicultural because it has local white people try and burn down a hotel because brown migrants live in it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it's more multicultural because it's more ethnically diverse broadly and deeply
And to become that way it's had to and is still overcoming some pretty atrocious inherent racism. Australia will have it's fair share of attrition to become more evolved. Till then you'll get people doing kangaroo hops on the World stage as a tribute to oppressed black people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia is very much a multicultural country. I’m assuming you’ve never been here
posted on 29/8/24
comment by mx4 (U23184)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Australia is much more white than the UK
-----------------------------------------------
That may still be true, but it's changing rapidly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps come back when you've become a multi-cultural Country then.
A forward thinking Country doesn't send privileged white people to the olympics to mockingly appropriate a black dance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm British, and have no interest in a point scoring discussion. I think it's useful to look critically and with nuance at all societies. So I wasn't trying to defend Australia by mentioning its rapidly changing demographics: I just think that's an interesting point to consider, which offsets the generalisation you gave.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
That, I suppose, would explain why the Australian government and Australian public are so well educated about the history of the colonial whities who settled what they decided should be called Australia; about the genocides of 300+ different tribes across the continent; and about the need for meaningful apologies, the recognition of distinct cultural rights and privileges, the return of lands and resources, and the payment of reparations?…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob’s just proving your point with his comments blaming the ‘English’.
posted on 29/8/24
The Germans should have tried this trick. When the Federal German Republic was formed in 1949, they could have called it, for instance, the 'Federal Australian Republic' instead. Then they could talk with opprobrium about what the Germans did.
posted on 29/8/24
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernçalvenoo triumvirate (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
That, I suppose, would explain why the Australian government and Australian public are so well educated about the history of the colonial whities who settled what they decided should be called Australia; about the genocides of 300+ different tribes across the continent; and about the need for meaningful apologies, the recognition of distinct cultural rights and privileges, the return of lands and resources, and the payment of reparations?…
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob’s just proving your point with his comments blaming the ‘English’.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what you did đ
posted on 29/8/24
As rosso and others have touched upon, Australia has an extremely dark past of physical and cultural genocide, which is also much more recent than might be thought.
Even as late as the 1970s, the country still had laws in place allowing the abduction and semi-enslavement of its aboriginal peoples, which would certainly explain at least in part their reluctance to dwell on the past too much.
For anyone interested, Sven Lindqvist's "Terra Nullius" is a very enlightening (albeit depressing) read on the topic.
Page 2 of 7
6 | 7