comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
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posted 1 second ago
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posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 1 minute ago
Out of curiosity, what are all of you righteous heroes doing yourself about this situation? You all feel so strongly about it and attack anyone who isn’t fully committed to the destruction of Israel. So what are you actually all doing about it?
Or all you all just whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
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You're just proving the point. Anyone that points out that Israel are the occupiers and created the conditions necessary for terrorist organisations like Hamas to exist with their apartheid system in Palestine, and highlight their gruesome human rights offences and contravention of international laws is "attacking anyone that isn't fully committed to the destruction of Israel".
Criticism of Israel acts as a trigger to you and you then automatically come out with these statements without even thinking and it seems you can't help yourself from doing it even when the facts are blatant.
What are YOU doing about Hamas and Israel's enemies apart from whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
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As usual Mamba, you’re seeing what you want to see. Nothing I’ve posted suggests defence of anything Israel has done, but you continue with the rhetoric that I support their actions. It’s not criticism of Israel that prompts what I post, it’s the refusal to acknowledge the part of Iran, Hamas etc have played in the current events. The fact that you’re going back 80 years to justify what Hamas did a year ago is ridiculous. It’s one of the worst tactical and military decisions I can think of, knowingly sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives, and to what end?
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So Hamas' actions on Oct 7th led to knowingly sacrificing Palestinian lives. Where was the concern for Palestinian lives of those illegally imprisoned and abused or forced from their homes by settlers in the years/decades prior to Oct 7th?
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Justifying a wrong with a wrong. Nice one.
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Erm no
Interesting your concern for the people of Palestine only extends to when Hamas are supposedly to blame and not when Israel is in the wrong according to international law.
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You’re making this up.
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According to you Hamas knowingly sacrificed Palestinian lives on Oct 7th. Who is responsible for the actions of the IDF & Israeli government in Gaza and the West Bank prior to Oct 7th such as illegal imprisonment, torture, mental, physical and sexualabuse, Israeli gov' & IDF backed settler violence, withholding food, water and leccy to Gaza, shooting kids throwing stones etc etc?
Try giving an honest answer this time.
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I’ve never claimed otherwise. What’s this giving an honest answer nonsense?
Let’s turn this around then, are you suggesting that Hamas didn’t know that Israel would react in the way they did?
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Are you suggesting Israel didn't know that Hamas would react in the way they did to decades long mistreatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government?
Somehow Israel's reaction to Oct 7th is justified but Hamas and Hezbollah's counter reactions aren't on the premise of they knew how Israel would react.
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Where have I justified Israel’s reaction?
I’m not suggesting that Israel wouldn’t expect a reaction at all. The huge difference is that they’re in a position to react with a far greater force than anything Hamas can muster. They’re also able to provide more protection to their own civilians than Hamas can.
I guess it depends whether you think the huge loss of Palestinian lives will achieve anything positive in the long term. I don’t, which is why I think it was an incredibly ill thought out action by Hamas.
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You question where you justify Israels actions then go on to do just that in that last paragraph by blaming Israel killing 40,000+ in Gaza on Hamas.
Well if Hamas knew they were outgunned and outmanned by Israel and knew what the response would be they should carry on letting Palestinians being oppressed, imprisoned, tortured and abused.
If you're Hamas actions have, disproportionate, consequences. If you're Israel a blind eye is turned on all sorts and consequences aren't their responsibility but that of Hamas.
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Jesus wept. My point is that the Hamas attack will not stop what Israel were doing prior to that, it has actually led to even worse loss of life.
That is not justifying anything that Israel has done, it’s merely stating the obvious.
I’m not going to claim to have the solution to the problem, but one thing I am certain of is that the Hamas attack isn’t it.
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Yep exactly this, Hamas' terrorist attack.on Oct 7th wasn't going to stop Israel's actions before, during and after the conflict, why is this?
Because the actions of Israel are conveniently ignored and dismissed.
Growing divide between Jews living in Israel and Jews living outside Israel because of support for Israel's actions.
Immigration to Israel down 70% in last one year. Emigration out of Israel up 700% in same time.
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
Growing divide between Jews living in Israel and Jews living outside Israel because of support for Israel's actions.
Immigration to Israel down 70% in last one year. Emigration out of Israel up 700% in same time.
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Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either. However they support the war in Gaza, probably mainly due to the recent terrorist attack on them.... Netanyahu is losing confidence, hopefully hes out of power soon and with any justice will be on trial for the war crimes his regime committed... Hes often been questioned, including by his own people...
Wouldnt read too much into the figures though, the main reason for that is simply because theres a war going on and real possibility of escalations which make it much bigger.
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 33 minutes ago
Occupiers of the land their ancestors and religion originated from? land that was owned/controlled by the brits who took it from the ottomans not palestinians in ww1?
Ever since theyve been under atk, numerous invasions by arab countries, thousands of rockets and mortars on civillians. Massacres of Jewish communities. Jewish populations in arab countries 900k+ to less than 50k. Israel took most their extra land after winning wars thrust upon them by surrounding arab nations. eventually those same arab nations accepted Israel, first Egypt, then Jordan etc.
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Sorry, but this that's a very manipulated or partial view of the events.
Firstly, it's completely irrelevant that the territory was under the Ottoman Empire or British Mandate in terms of the inhabitants of the land, which had been roughly 80%-90% Arab Muslim for hundreds and hundreds of years, with the remainder more or less evenly distributed between Arab Christians and Jews.
Secondly, the decision on how to partition Palestine was based on a plan presented by the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine.
That plan was drafted with the input and acquiescence of the Zionist organisations in Palestine and boycotted by the Palestinian Arabs, who held that that their natural rights were self-evident and could not continue to be subject to investigation, but rather deserved to be recognised on the basis of the principles of the United Nations Charter.
The Committee's proposal consisted of awarding nearly 60% to the Jewish population, which even by that time was still less than half that of the two-thirds Arab majority population who was to be left with less than 43% of the land.
The Zionist leaders viewed the acceptance of the plan as a tactical step and a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over all of Palestine.
The Arab Higher Committee, the Arab League and other Arab leaders and governments rejected the Plan, as aside from Arabs forming a two-thirds majority, they were the owners of most of the territory. They also argued that any form of territorial division violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter that granted people the right to decide their own destiny. They announced their intention to take all necessary measures to prevent the implementation of the resolution.
A civil war broke out in Palestine, and the plan was not implemented. At the end of this phase of the war, from April 1948 to mid-May, Zionist forces embarked on an offensive (Plan Dalet) that involved conquering cities and territories in Palestine allocated to a future Jewish state, as well as those allocated to the corpus separatum of Jerusalem and a future Arab state according to the 1947 Partition plan for Palestine. During the offensive, approximately half of Palestine's predominantly Arab population, or around 750,000 people, were expelled from their homes or made to flee through various violent means. As a result of this campaign, 85% of the Palestinians living in the areas that became the state of Israel became refugees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947–1948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
Growing divide between Jews living in Israel and Jews living outside Israel because of support for Israel's actions.
Immigration to Israel down 70% in last one year. Emigration out of Israel up 700% in same time.
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Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either. However they support the war in Gaza, probably mainly due to the recent terrorist attack on them.... Netanyahu is losing confidence, hopefully hes out of power soon and with any justice will be on trial for the war crimes his regime committed... Hes often been questioned, including by his own people...
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Yep. There are protests inside Israel itself and some Jews are protesting this war across the world too. Not all Jews support these actions. I guess they are Hamas sympathisers as well.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 33 minutes ago
Occupiers of the land their ancestors and religion originated from? land that was owned/controlled by the brits who took it from the ottomans not palestinians in ww1?
Ever since theyve been under atk, numerous invasions by arab countries, thousands of rockets and mortars on civillians. Massacres of Jewish communities. Jewish populations in arab countries 900k+ to less than 50k. Israel took most their extra land after winning wars thrust upon them by surrounding arab nations. eventually those same arab nations accepted Israel, first Egypt, then Jordan etc.
======
Most of these have been debunked saan. You can look into them one by one. For instance, nobody played a greater role in reducing Jewish populations in Arab lands than Israel itself.
You're not gonna see this stuff on BBC or CNN.
All Gaza Universities destroyed.
90% Gaza hospitals destroyed.
75% of buildings in Gaza destroyed.
Over 80% of schools destroyed.
Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either.
You keep spouting this rubbish on multiple threads and fail to ignore those same people elected him on a majority vote not once but TWICE. There are multiple polls even before October 7th that Israeli’s don’t want a two state solution which is facking ironic given they’re living on stolen occupied land.
comment by Jake Moon (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either.
You keep spouting this rubbish on multiple threads and fail to ignore those same people elected him on a majority vote not once but TWICE. There are multiple polls even before October 7th that Israeli’s don’t want a two state solution which is facking ironic given they’re living on stolen occupied land.
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u realise on numerous occasions theyve wanted it? ofc im aware things swing opinions unlike you seem to be, such as terrorist atks on them....
My point is, its been done throughout history pretty much in the entirety of human existence on earth? Why is it now wrong? it happened to the jews first? exiled 4 times. But cause its less recent its less important? less rights? Wheres the line drawn and how far do we go back lol? Who decides that? Madness to even try to...
Not saying the Brits and the UN got it right or fair and there wasnt mistakes and wrongs, clearly there was. You're not gonna change that by doing what they did or still do though. Hasnt for 100 years wont for the next 100. Has to be a different way. If anything its made it worse and strengthened Israels posittion... Accepted by those who tried to get rid of them Egypt, Jordan etc even the PLO were willing to accept peace and a two state solution in the end. Ofc Israel facked up big time regarding Iran and Hamas... Who knows if this was expected and desired outcome by them so they can continue the illegal and wrong stuff they do? Wouldn't surprise me if it was.
What Israel do now wont work long term, what Hamas etc do wont work, all that happens is more bloodshed of innocent on both sides for the next 100 years just like the past 100..
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Jake Moon (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either.
You keep spouting this rubbish on multiple threads and fail to ignore those same people elected him on a majority vote not once but TWICE. There are multiple polls even before October 7th that Israeli’s don’t want a two state solution which is facking ironic given they’re living on stolen occupied land.
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u realise on numerous occasions theyve wanted it? ofc im aware things swing opinions unlike you seem to be, such as terrorist atks on them....
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Where’s your evidence? I just googled this poll and it was released 2 weeks before the attacks.
Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April, prior to the latest violence in the West Bank. That represents a decline of 9 percentage points since 2017 and 15 points since 2013.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/
The two-state solution is supported by many countries, and the Palestinian Authority. Israel currently does not support the idea, though it has in the past.
In a 2002 poll conducted by PIPA, 72% of both Palestinians and Israelis supported at that time a peace settlement based on the 1967 borders so long as each group could be reassured that the other side would be cooperative in making the necessary concessions for such a settlement.[106] A 2013 Gallup poll found 70% of Palestinians in the West Bank and 48% of Palestinians in Gaza Strip, together with 52% of Israelis supporting "an independent Palestinian state together with the state of Israel".[107]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#Public_opinion_in_Israel_and_Palestine
Accepted by those who tried to get rid of them Egypt, Jordan etc even the PLO were willing to accept peace and a two state solution in the end.
====
Israel's peace and recognition with some of it's neighbours was based on Israel's commitment to a two state solution and freedom for Palestinians. Read up about it. Most of them have already withdrawn from working with Israel because of this war.
The greatest loss will be felt in the years to come as support for Israel has been massively eroded for the first time in a long time. This war has forced people to learn the truth and you only have to look at the global protests and opinion polls to see that there's been a shift.
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
Things happen that impact those shifts. Need a Mandella of sorts on the Palestinian side or a more reasonable fairer Israeli government who wont just overreact with disproportionate retaliations to terrorist atks and committing war crimes. But rather start repairing trust and ties with its neighbours.
It has to be fair for both sides, theres a lot on both sides who will never be fair though and want it all. Those are the ones in power on both sides atm unfortunately. I dont think the general population want what either are doing though, maybe where angered by recent tragedies but deep down in the long run im sure they just want peace and to feel safe.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 1 minute ago
Out of curiosity, what are all of you righteous heroes doing yourself about this situation? You all feel so strongly about it and attack anyone who isn’t fully committed to the destruction of Israel. So what are you actually all doing about it?
Or all you all just whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're just proving the point. Anyone that points out that Israel are the occupiers and created the conditions necessary for terrorist organisations like Hamas to exist with their apartheid system in Palestine, and highlight their gruesome human rights offences and contravention of international laws is "attacking anyone that isn't fully committed to the destruction of Israel".
Criticism of Israel acts as a trigger to you and you then automatically come out with these statements without even thinking and it seems you can't help yourself from doing it even when the facts are blatant.
What are YOU doing about Hamas and Israel's enemies apart from whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual Mamba, you’re seeing what you want to see. Nothing I’ve posted suggests defence of anything Israel has done, but you continue with the rhetoric that I support their actions. It’s not criticism of Israel that prompts what I post, it’s the refusal to acknowledge the part of Iran, Hamas etc have played in the current events. The fact that you’re going back 80 years to justify what Hamas did a year ago is ridiculous. It’s one of the worst tactical and military decisions I can think of, knowingly sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives, and to what end?
----------------------------------------------------------------------<
Are you fvkin serious? Let's all just forget the root causes? Why? And why have Palestinian been paying for "white westerners" war crimes for 80 years?
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 14 minutes ago
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
=====
I don't think that's gonna happen anymore because most people realise now that Palestine is under brutal occupation and are living as second class humans which reason is the main agitator for the existence of a threat against the people of Israel. Apart from mainstream media, governments and the likes, I don't expect to see too many outpourings of pity on social media and commentary over future attacks. I'd suggest it's more likely that calls for the occupation to end and human rights to be enforced will instead keep growing.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Salah Time. (U23032)
posted 26 minutes ago
Fred do you use the both sides are Cuuuuntz in the Russian/Ukrainian war?
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When Russia took crimea, were Ukraine firing rockets and mortars into russia, targetting civillians? planning terrorists atks etc? Must have missed it if they were.
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No, they were cozying up to he west, planning to join NATO and other things that were as good or worse than firing rockets into Russia.
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What?!
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I knew Mamba was a bit mad, but this takes the biscuit
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The fack is wrong with you two? Those are the reasons Russia has given for the war.
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Ah sorry Mamba, my bad. Putin said it so that’s ok. Feck hell
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Are you reetarded. I didn't say I support it or that it was true or that it was OK, but it's the reason Russia attacked Ukraine. I answered the question.
Don't know what's funny when you're stoopid logic is being exposed. It's OK for Israel to occupy and apartheid Palestine because they feel their security is threatened, but it's not OK for Russia to do the same when they feel their security is threatened?
Finally, please learn how to separate a point made in debate to demonstrate a point vis a vis the personal beliefs of the person making the point. Fecking geniuses.
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You stated it as a fact, as if you were saying it. Again though, you’re basically taking Putins word as the truth of the matter.
If you think Russia’s invasion was about self defence and nothing to do with them wanting to annex Ukraine then you’re not even 5% as intelligent as you think you are.
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Israel wants to annex Gaza and the West Bank FFS.
Oh and why was it so easy for Hamas to invade Israel? Some might think think Israel were in on it.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 second ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 1 minute ago
Out of curiosity, what are all of you righteous heroes doing yourself about this situation? You all feel so strongly about it and attack anyone who isn’t fully committed to the destruction of Israel. So what are you actually all doing about it?
Or all you all just whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're just proving the point. Anyone that points out that Israel are the occupiers and created the conditions necessary for terrorist organisations like Hamas to exist with their apartheid system in Palestine, and highlight their gruesome human rights offences and contravention of international laws is "attacking anyone that isn't fully committed to the destruction of Israel".
Criticism of Israel acts as a trigger to you and you then automatically come out with these statements without even thinking and it seems you can't help yourself from doing it even when the facts are blatant.
What are YOU doing about Hamas and Israel's enemies apart from whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual Mamba, you’re seeing what you want to see. Nothing I’ve posted suggests defence of anything Israel has done, but you continue with the rhetoric that I support their actions. It’s not criticism of Israel that prompts what I post, it’s the refusal to acknowledge the part of Iran, Hamas etc have played in the current events. The fact that you’re going back 80 years to justify what Hamas did a year ago is ridiculous. It’s one of the worst tactical and military decisions I can think of, knowingly sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives, and to what end?
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So Hamas' actions on Oct 7th led to knowingly sacrificing Palestinian lives. Where was the concern for Palestinian lives of those illegally imprisoned and abused or forced from their homes by settlers in the years/decades prior to Oct 7th?
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Justifying a wrong with a wrong. Nice one.
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Erm no
Interesting your concern for the people of Palestine only extends to when Hamas are supposedly to blame and not when Israel is in the wrong according to international law.
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You’re making this up.
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According to you Hamas knowingly sacrificed Palestinian lives on Oct 7th. Who is responsible for the actions of the IDF & Israeli government in Gaza and the West Bank prior to Oct 7th such as illegal imprisonment, torture, mental, physical and sexualabuse, Israeli gov' & IDF backed settler violence, withholding food, water and leccy to Gaza, shooting kids throwing stones etc etc?
Try giving an honest answer this time.
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I’ve never claimed otherwise. What’s this giving an honest answer nonsense?
Let’s turn this around then, are you suggesting that Hamas didn’t know that Israel would react in the way they did?
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Are you suggesting Israel didn't know that Hamas would react in the way they did to decades long mistreatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government?
Somehow Israel's reaction to Oct 7th is justified but Hamas and Hezbollah's counter reactions aren't on the premise of they knew how Israel would react.
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Where have I justified Israel’s reaction?
I’m not suggesting that Israel wouldn’t expect a reaction at all. The huge difference is that they’re in a position to react with a far greater force than anything Hamas can muster. They’re also able to provide more protection to their own civilians than Hamas can.
I guess it depends whether you think the huge loss of Palestinian lives will achieve anything positive in the long term. I don’t, which is why I think it was an incredibly ill thought out action by Hamas.
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Didn't a huge loss of Jewish lives gain the the Zionists a country?
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 14 minutes ago
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
=====
I don't think that's gonna happen anymore because most people realise now that Palestine is under brutal occupation and are living as second class humans which reason is the main agitator for the existence of a threat against the people of Israel. Apart from mainstream media, governments and the likes, I don't expect to see too many outpourings of pity on social media and commentary over future attacks. I'd suggest it's more likely that calls for the occupation to end and human rights to be enforced will instead keep growing.
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Theyll run out of excuses eventually to keep doing it and keep the land, and surely pressure will come which makes them give it all back. Thats what i mean by what theyre doing imo wont work... Even if they take all the territory... Think the same with Russia and Ukraine, even if Russia succeeded with the initial invasion and conquered them, long term it doesnt work... Unsustainable imo. Not realistic plans. Just more trouble than its worth down the line. Looking back on it theyll be remembered badly for it, and probably future generations paying the price for it all.
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Didn't a huge loss of Jewish lives gain the the Zionists a country?
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Well that's certainly a new take on it. Don't think I've ever seen the holocaust described as gaining the zionists a country before.
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 14 minutes ago
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
=====
I don't think that's gonna happen anymore because most people realise now that Palestine is under brutal occupation and are living as second class humans which reason is the main agitator for the existence of a threat against the people of Israel. Apart from mainstream media, governments and the likes, I don't expect to see too many outpourings of pity on social media and commentary over future attacks. I'd suggest it's more likely that calls for the occupation to end and human rights to be enforced will instead keep growing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. I think the general levels of awareness of what the Palestinians face has sky-rocketed (from admittedly a fairly low base level) in the last year. And I think for a generation of people, their view of Israel has forever changed.
Maybe this is the triumph of hope over expectation; but I would like to think the political narrative over the coming decade would be around rebuilding, human rights and ending occupation. My only fear is that western democracies, who would need to push Israel, seem to be experiencing a shift to the right of politics.
comment by Szoboss (U6997)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Didn't a huge loss of Jewish lives gain the the Zionists a country?
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Well that's certainly a new take on it. Don't think I've ever seen the holocaust described as gaining the zionists a country before.
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But it was the deciding factor.
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Israel
Page 9 of 11
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posted on 8/10/24
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 second ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 1 minute ago
Out of curiosity, what are all of you righteous heroes doing yourself about this situation? You all feel so strongly about it and attack anyone who isn’t fully committed to the destruction of Israel. So what are you actually all doing about it?
Or all you all just whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're just proving the point. Anyone that points out that Israel are the occupiers and created the conditions necessary for terrorist organisations like Hamas to exist with their apartheid system in Palestine, and highlight their gruesome human rights offences and contravention of international laws is "attacking anyone that isn't fully committed to the destruction of Israel".
Criticism of Israel acts as a trigger to you and you then automatically come out with these statements without even thinking and it seems you can't help yourself from doing it even when the facts are blatant.
What are YOU doing about Hamas and Israel's enemies apart from whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual Mamba, you’re seeing what you want to see. Nothing I’ve posted suggests defence of anything Israel has done, but you continue with the rhetoric that I support their actions. It’s not criticism of Israel that prompts what I post, it’s the refusal to acknowledge the part of Iran, Hamas etc have played in the current events. The fact that you’re going back 80 years to justify what Hamas did a year ago is ridiculous. It’s one of the worst tactical and military decisions I can think of, knowingly sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives, and to what end?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So Hamas' actions on Oct 7th led to knowingly sacrificing Palestinian lives. Where was the concern for Palestinian lives of those illegally imprisoned and abused or forced from their homes by settlers in the years/decades prior to Oct 7th?
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Justifying a wrong with a wrong. Nice one.
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Erm no
Interesting your concern for the people of Palestine only extends to when Hamas are supposedly to blame and not when Israel is in the wrong according to international law.
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You’re making this up.
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According to you Hamas knowingly sacrificed Palestinian lives on Oct 7th. Who is responsible for the actions of the IDF & Israeli government in Gaza and the West Bank prior to Oct 7th such as illegal imprisonment, torture, mental, physical and sexualabuse, Israeli gov' & IDF backed settler violence, withholding food, water and leccy to Gaza, shooting kids throwing stones etc etc?
Try giving an honest answer this time.
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I’ve never claimed otherwise. What’s this giving an honest answer nonsense?
Let’s turn this around then, are you suggesting that Hamas didn’t know that Israel would react in the way they did?
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Are you suggesting Israel didn't know that Hamas would react in the way they did to decades long mistreatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government?
Somehow Israel's reaction to Oct 7th is justified but Hamas and Hezbollah's counter reactions aren't on the premise of they knew how Israel would react.
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Where have I justified Israel’s reaction?
I’m not suggesting that Israel wouldn’t expect a reaction at all. The huge difference is that they’re in a position to react with a far greater force than anything Hamas can muster. They’re also able to provide more protection to their own civilians than Hamas can.
I guess it depends whether you think the huge loss of Palestinian lives will achieve anything positive in the long term. I don’t, which is why I think it was an incredibly ill thought out action by Hamas.
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You question where you justify Israels actions then go on to do just that in that last paragraph by blaming Israel killing 40,000+ in Gaza on Hamas.
Well if Hamas knew they were outgunned and outmanned by Israel and knew what the response would be they should carry on letting Palestinians being oppressed, imprisoned, tortured and abused.
If you're Hamas actions have, disproportionate, consequences. If you're Israel a blind eye is turned on all sorts and consequences aren't their responsibility but that of Hamas.
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Jesus wept. My point is that the Hamas attack will not stop what Israel were doing prior to that, it has actually led to even worse loss of life.
That is not justifying anything that Israel has done, it’s merely stating the obvious.
I’m not going to claim to have the solution to the problem, but one thing I am certain of is that the Hamas attack isn’t it.
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Yep exactly this, Hamas' terrorist attack.on Oct 7th wasn't going to stop Israel's actions before, during and after the conflict, why is this?
Because the actions of Israel are conveniently ignored and dismissed.
posted on 8/10/24
Growing divide between Jews living in Israel and Jews living outside Israel because of support for Israel's actions.
Immigration to Israel down 70% in last one year. Emigration out of Israel up 700% in same time.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
Growing divide between Jews living in Israel and Jews living outside Israel because of support for Israel's actions.
Immigration to Israel down 70% in last one year. Emigration out of Israel up 700% in same time.
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Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either. However they support the war in Gaza, probably mainly due to the recent terrorist attack on them.... Netanyahu is losing confidence, hopefully hes out of power soon and with any justice will be on trial for the war crimes his regime committed... Hes often been questioned, including by his own people...
posted on 8/10/24
Wouldnt read too much into the figures though, the main reason for that is simply because theres a war going on and real possibility of escalations which make it much bigger.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 33 minutes ago
Occupiers of the land their ancestors and religion originated from? land that was owned/controlled by the brits who took it from the ottomans not palestinians in ww1?
Ever since theyve been under atk, numerous invasions by arab countries, thousands of rockets and mortars on civillians. Massacres of Jewish communities. Jewish populations in arab countries 900k+ to less than 50k. Israel took most their extra land after winning wars thrust upon them by surrounding arab nations. eventually those same arab nations accepted Israel, first Egypt, then Jordan etc.
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Sorry, but this that's a very manipulated or partial view of the events.
Firstly, it's completely irrelevant that the territory was under the Ottoman Empire or British Mandate in terms of the inhabitants of the land, which had been roughly 80%-90% Arab Muslim for hundreds and hundreds of years, with the remainder more or less evenly distributed between Arab Christians and Jews.
Secondly, the decision on how to partition Palestine was based on a plan presented by the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine.
That plan was drafted with the input and acquiescence of the Zionist organisations in Palestine and boycotted by the Palestinian Arabs, who held that that their natural rights were self-evident and could not continue to be subject to investigation, but rather deserved to be recognised on the basis of the principles of the United Nations Charter.
The Committee's proposal consisted of awarding nearly 60% to the Jewish population, which even by that time was still less than half that of the two-thirds Arab majority population who was to be left with less than 43% of the land.
The Zionist leaders viewed the acceptance of the plan as a tactical step and a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over all of Palestine.
The Arab Higher Committee, the Arab League and other Arab leaders and governments rejected the Plan, as aside from Arabs forming a two-thirds majority, they were the owners of most of the territory. They also argued that any form of territorial division violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter that granted people the right to decide their own destiny. They announced their intention to take all necessary measures to prevent the implementation of the resolution.
A civil war broke out in Palestine, and the plan was not implemented. At the end of this phase of the war, from April 1948 to mid-May, Zionist forces embarked on an offensive (Plan Dalet) that involved conquering cities and territories in Palestine allocated to a future Jewish state, as well as those allocated to the corpus separatum of Jerusalem and a future Arab state according to the 1947 Partition plan for Palestine. During the offensive, approximately half of Palestine's predominantly Arab population, or around 750,000 people, were expelled from their homes or made to flee through various violent means. As a result of this campaign, 85% of the Palestinians living in the areas that became the state of Israel became refugees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947–1948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
Growing divide between Jews living in Israel and Jews living outside Israel because of support for Israel's actions.
Immigration to Israel down 70% in last one year. Emigration out of Israel up 700% in same time.
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Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either. However they support the war in Gaza, probably mainly due to the recent terrorist attack on them.... Netanyahu is losing confidence, hopefully hes out of power soon and with any justice will be on trial for the war crimes his regime committed... Hes often been questioned, including by his own people...
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Yep. There are protests inside Israel itself and some Jews are protesting this war across the world too. Not all Jews support these actions. I guess they are Hamas sympathisers as well.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 33 minutes ago
Occupiers of the land their ancestors and religion originated from? land that was owned/controlled by the brits who took it from the ottomans not palestinians in ww1?
Ever since theyve been under atk, numerous invasions by arab countries, thousands of rockets and mortars on civillians. Massacres of Jewish communities. Jewish populations in arab countries 900k+ to less than 50k. Israel took most their extra land after winning wars thrust upon them by surrounding arab nations. eventually those same arab nations accepted Israel, first Egypt, then Jordan etc.
======
Most of these have been debunked saan. You can look into them one by one. For instance, nobody played a greater role in reducing Jewish populations in Arab lands than Israel itself.
You're not gonna see this stuff on BBC or CNN.
posted on 8/10/24
All Gaza Universities destroyed.
90% Gaza hospitals destroyed.
75% of buildings in Gaza destroyed.
posted on 8/10/24
Over 80% of schools destroyed.
posted on 8/10/24
Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either.
You keep spouting this rubbish on multiple threads and fail to ignore those same people elected him on a majority vote not once but TWICE. There are multiple polls even before October 7th that Israeli’s don’t want a two state solution which is facking ironic given they’re living on stolen occupied land.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Jake Moon (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either.
You keep spouting this rubbish on multiple threads and fail to ignore those same people elected him on a majority vote not once but TWICE. There are multiple polls even before October 7th that Israeli’s don’t want a two state solution which is facking ironic given they’re living on stolen occupied land.
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u realise on numerous occasions theyve wanted it? ofc im aware things swing opinions unlike you seem to be, such as terrorist atks on them....
posted on 8/10/24
My point is, its been done throughout history pretty much in the entirety of human existence on earth? Why is it now wrong? it happened to the jews first? exiled 4 times. But cause its less recent its less important? less rights? Wheres the line drawn and how far do we go back lol? Who decides that? Madness to even try to...
Not saying the Brits and the UN got it right or fair and there wasnt mistakes and wrongs, clearly there was. You're not gonna change that by doing what they did or still do though. Hasnt for 100 years wont for the next 100. Has to be a different way. If anything its made it worse and strengthened Israels posittion... Accepted by those who tried to get rid of them Egypt, Jordan etc even the PLO were willing to accept peace and a two state solution in the end. Ofc Israel facked up big time regarding Iran and Hamas... Who knows if this was expected and desired outcome by them so they can continue the illegal and wrong stuff they do? Wouldn't surprise me if it was.
What Israel do now wont work long term, what Hamas etc do wont work, all that happens is more bloodshed of innocent on both sides for the next 100 years just like the past 100..
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Jake Moon (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
Thats the thing isnt it, most Israelis dont like Netanyahu or agree with anything his regimes been doing with regards to the west tbank etc either.
You keep spouting this rubbish on multiple threads and fail to ignore those same people elected him on a majority vote not once but TWICE. There are multiple polls even before October 7th that Israeli’s don’t want a two state solution which is facking ironic given they’re living on stolen occupied land.
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u realise on numerous occasions theyve wanted it? ofc im aware things swing opinions unlike you seem to be, such as terrorist atks on them....
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Where’s your evidence? I just googled this poll and it was released 2 weeks before the attacks.
Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April, prior to the latest violence in the West Bank. That represents a decline of 9 percentage points since 2017 and 15 points since 2013.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/
posted on 8/10/24
The two-state solution is supported by many countries, and the Palestinian Authority. Israel currently does not support the idea, though it has in the past.
posted on 8/10/24
In a 2002 poll conducted by PIPA, 72% of both Palestinians and Israelis supported at that time a peace settlement based on the 1967 borders so long as each group could be reassured that the other side would be cooperative in making the necessary concessions for such a settlement.[106] A 2013 Gallup poll found 70% of Palestinians in the West Bank and 48% of Palestinians in Gaza Strip, together with 52% of Israelis supporting "an independent Palestinian state together with the state of Israel".[107]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#Public_opinion_in_Israel_and_Palestine
posted on 8/10/24
Accepted by those who tried to get rid of them Egypt, Jordan etc even the PLO were willing to accept peace and a two state solution in the end.
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Israel's peace and recognition with some of it's neighbours was based on Israel's commitment to a two state solution and freedom for Palestinians. Read up about it. Most of them have already withdrawn from working with Israel because of this war.
The greatest loss will be felt in the years to come as support for Israel has been massively eroded for the first time in a long time. This war has forced people to learn the truth and you only have to look at the global protests and opinion polls to see that there's been a shift.
posted on 8/10/24
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
Things happen that impact those shifts. Need a Mandella of sorts on the Palestinian side or a more reasonable fairer Israeli government who wont just overreact with disproportionate retaliations to terrorist atks and committing war crimes. But rather start repairing trust and ties with its neighbours.
It has to be fair for both sides, theres a lot on both sides who will never be fair though and want it all. Those are the ones in power on both sides atm unfortunately. I dont think the general population want what either are doing though, maybe where angered by recent tragedies but deep down in the long run im sure they just want peace and to feel safe.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 1 minute ago
Out of curiosity, what are all of you righteous heroes doing yourself about this situation? You all feel so strongly about it and attack anyone who isn’t fully committed to the destruction of Israel. So what are you actually all doing about it?
Or all you all just whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
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You're just proving the point. Anyone that points out that Israel are the occupiers and created the conditions necessary for terrorist organisations like Hamas to exist with their apartheid system in Palestine, and highlight their gruesome human rights offences and contravention of international laws is "attacking anyone that isn't fully committed to the destruction of Israel".
Criticism of Israel acts as a trigger to you and you then automatically come out with these statements without even thinking and it seems you can't help yourself from doing it even when the facts are blatant.
What are YOU doing about Hamas and Israel's enemies apart from whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
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As usual Mamba, you’re seeing what you want to see. Nothing I’ve posted suggests defence of anything Israel has done, but you continue with the rhetoric that I support their actions. It’s not criticism of Israel that prompts what I post, it’s the refusal to acknowledge the part of Iran, Hamas etc have played in the current events. The fact that you’re going back 80 years to justify what Hamas did a year ago is ridiculous. It’s one of the worst tactical and military decisions I can think of, knowingly sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives, and to what end?
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Are you fvkin serious? Let's all just forget the root causes? Why? And why have Palestinian been paying for "white westerners" war crimes for 80 years?
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 14 minutes ago
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
=====
I don't think that's gonna happen anymore because most people realise now that Palestine is under brutal occupation and are living as second class humans which reason is the main agitator for the existence of a threat against the people of Israel. Apart from mainstream media, governments and the likes, I don't expect to see too many outpourings of pity on social media and commentary over future attacks. I'd suggest it's more likely that calls for the occupation to end and human rights to be enforced will instead keep growing.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Salah Time. (U23032)
posted 26 minutes ago
Fred do you use the both sides are Cuuuuntz in the Russian/Ukrainian war?
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When Russia took crimea, were Ukraine firing rockets and mortars into russia, targetting civillians? planning terrorists atks etc? Must have missed it if they were.
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No, they were cozying up to he west, planning to join NATO and other things that were as good or worse than firing rockets into Russia.
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What?!
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I knew Mamba was a bit mad, but this takes the biscuit
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The fack is wrong with you two? Those are the reasons Russia has given for the war.
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Ah sorry Mamba, my bad. Putin said it so that’s ok. Feck hell
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Are you reetarded. I didn't say I support it or that it was true or that it was OK, but it's the reason Russia attacked Ukraine. I answered the question.
Don't know what's funny when you're stoopid logic is being exposed. It's OK for Israel to occupy and apartheid Palestine because they feel their security is threatened, but it's not OK for Russia to do the same when they feel their security is threatened?
Finally, please learn how to separate a point made in debate to demonstrate a point vis a vis the personal beliefs of the person making the point. Fecking geniuses.
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You stated it as a fact, as if you were saying it. Again though, you’re basically taking Putins word as the truth of the matter.
If you think Russia’s invasion was about self defence and nothing to do with them wanting to annex Ukraine then you’re not even 5% as intelligent as you think you are.
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Israel wants to annex Gaza and the West Bank FFS.
Oh and why was it so easy for Hamas to invade Israel? Some might think think Israel were in on it.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 second ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 hours, 1 minute ago
Out of curiosity, what are all of you righteous heroes doing yourself about this situation? You all feel so strongly about it and attack anyone who isn’t fully committed to the destruction of Israel. So what are you actually all doing about it?
Or all you all just whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You're just proving the point. Anyone that points out that Israel are the occupiers and created the conditions necessary for terrorist organisations like Hamas to exist with their apartheid system in Palestine, and highlight their gruesome human rights offences and contravention of international laws is "attacking anyone that isn't fully committed to the destruction of Israel".
Criticism of Israel acts as a trigger to you and you then automatically come out with these statements without even thinking and it seems you can't help yourself from doing it even when the facts are blatant.
What are YOU doing about Hamas and Israel's enemies apart from whining on an anonymous forum that makes zero difference to anything?
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As usual Mamba, you’re seeing what you want to see. Nothing I’ve posted suggests defence of anything Israel has done, but you continue with the rhetoric that I support their actions. It’s not criticism of Israel that prompts what I post, it’s the refusal to acknowledge the part of Iran, Hamas etc have played in the current events. The fact that you’re going back 80 years to justify what Hamas did a year ago is ridiculous. It’s one of the worst tactical and military decisions I can think of, knowingly sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives, and to what end?
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So Hamas' actions on Oct 7th led to knowingly sacrificing Palestinian lives. Where was the concern for Palestinian lives of those illegally imprisoned and abused or forced from their homes by settlers in the years/decades prior to Oct 7th?
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Justifying a wrong with a wrong. Nice one.
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Erm no
Interesting your concern for the people of Palestine only extends to when Hamas are supposedly to blame and not when Israel is in the wrong according to international law.
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You’re making this up.
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According to you Hamas knowingly sacrificed Palestinian lives on Oct 7th. Who is responsible for the actions of the IDF & Israeli government in Gaza and the West Bank prior to Oct 7th such as illegal imprisonment, torture, mental, physical and sexualabuse, Israeli gov' & IDF backed settler violence, withholding food, water and leccy to Gaza, shooting kids throwing stones etc etc?
Try giving an honest answer this time.
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I’ve never claimed otherwise. What’s this giving an honest answer nonsense?
Let’s turn this around then, are you suggesting that Hamas didn’t know that Israel would react in the way they did?
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Are you suggesting Israel didn't know that Hamas would react in the way they did to decades long mistreatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government?
Somehow Israel's reaction to Oct 7th is justified but Hamas and Hezbollah's counter reactions aren't on the premise of they knew how Israel would react.
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Where have I justified Israel’s reaction?
I’m not suggesting that Israel wouldn’t expect a reaction at all. The huge difference is that they’re in a position to react with a far greater force than anything Hamas can muster. They’re also able to provide more protection to their own civilians than Hamas can.
I guess it depends whether you think the huge loss of Palestinian lives will achieve anything positive in the long term. I don’t, which is why I think it was an incredibly ill thought out action by Hamas.
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Didn't a huge loss of Jewish lives gain the the Zionists a country?
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 14 minutes ago
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
=====
I don't think that's gonna happen anymore because most people realise now that Palestine is under brutal occupation and are living as second class humans which reason is the main agitator for the existence of a threat against the people of Israel. Apart from mainstream media, governments and the likes, I don't expect to see too many outpourings of pity on social media and commentary over future attacks. I'd suggest it's more likely that calls for the occupation to end and human rights to be enforced will instead keep growing.
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Theyll run out of excuses eventually to keep doing it and keep the land, and surely pressure will come which makes them give it all back. Thats what i mean by what theyre doing imo wont work... Even if they take all the territory... Think the same with Russia and Ukraine, even if Russia succeeded with the initial invasion and conquered them, long term it doesnt work... Unsustainable imo. Not realistic plans. Just more trouble than its worth down the line. Looking back on it theyll be remembered badly for it, and probably future generations paying the price for it all.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Didn't a huge loss of Jewish lives gain the the Zionists a country?
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Well that's certainly a new take on it. Don't think I've ever seen the holocaust described as gaining the zionists a country before.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 14 minutes ago
Whats it matter Mamba, it wont change until both sides agree and act on it. Theres always been shifts throughout the years and always will be until theres real change. Its come close to a few times but always gets thrown up in the air for w.e reason. It yoyos, im sure theres a lot of opposition to Israel atm but soon as Hamas or someone does another atk theyll gain back a lot of support. And so it swings from one to the other.
=====
I don't think that's gonna happen anymore because most people realise now that Palestine is under brutal occupation and are living as second class humans which reason is the main agitator for the existence of a threat against the people of Israel. Apart from mainstream media, governments and the likes, I don't expect to see too many outpourings of pity on social media and commentary over future attacks. I'd suggest it's more likely that calls for the occupation to end and human rights to be enforced will instead keep growing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. I think the general levels of awareness of what the Palestinians face has sky-rocketed (from admittedly a fairly low base level) in the last year. And I think for a generation of people, their view of Israel has forever changed.
Maybe this is the triumph of hope over expectation; but I would like to think the political narrative over the coming decade would be around rebuilding, human rights and ending occupation. My only fear is that western democracies, who would need to push Israel, seem to be experiencing a shift to the right of politics.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Szoboss (U6997)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 hour, 9 minutes ago
Didn't a huge loss of Jewish lives gain the the Zionists a country?
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Well that's certainly a new take on it. Don't think I've ever seen the holocaust described as gaining the zionists a country before.
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But it was the deciding factor.
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