comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 35 minutes ago
The clue is in the delay. This was a verdict delivered 14 days ago, one that City have been happy to publish since it arrived. The hold up has been at the Premier League’s end. Now they are trying to spin it out further. Clarifications, consultations, all the things a governing body does if it wants to fashion a tight rule book which, as Leicester City found much to their delight, isn’t the Premier League’s style at all. Why? There is another case ongoing involving Manchester City and 115 charges. So the APT decision likely impacts proceedings elsewhere. If the League can bog this down in legal process, they hope it won’t weaken their case against City yet further. The Premier League, its rulebook and executives are facing a firing squad but are now asking to inspect the guns to ensure they fit professional standards. What a shower they are.
----------------------------------------------
The excellent Martin Samuel
https://www.thetimes.com/article/5cc823c3-f9d6-485f-a33a-ce2a30e46706?shareToken=e8426ecba3590b5dfda09882181be90b&fbclid=IwY2xjawFxA61leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbtTziB3A9XY1L-jNvQu3-CPW8C9L2CEKMNRItZz2NGzgNJCkqPRW-lYFg_aem_rn2B2oEu2PZRhzFLLNTm-g
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine glorifying a fat Tory cuuuunt like Samuel
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 29 minutes ago
Owner loans are an unlawful method of financial doping.
Arsenal are a financially doped club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just dress up the owner loan as sponsorship, that should be acceptable.
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 55 seconds ago
City were in favour if ESL too. City fans are like Tories. Everything is a half truth or a twisted lie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Baled out within 24 hours with Chelsea as soon as the true details were revealed.
The Red Cartel were basically shamed by their fans to pull out and it wasn't a quick process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You honestly think City's owners bailed because of no relegation in the ESL?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...and no promotion.
Yes, they said as much.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're so niave
Reaction from fans from all clubs, the universal criticism in the press and government, but above all how of effects the bottom line were most likely considered well.before sporting integrity.
It's sweet that you think this though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why did it take Liverpool so long to pull out?
Boardroom full of slow thinkers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Liverpool Football Club can confirm that our involvement in proposed plans to form a European Super League has been discontinued.
In recent days, the club has received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally, and we would like to thank them for their valuable contributions."
Listened to the negative reaction and acted accordingly. They didn't try to kid the fans on it was about no relegation or promotion. What sort of dope would fall for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One called Thicky Gibson.
City saw that relegation promotion was a big deal and tried to endeavour themselves to football fans. Pathetic.
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
Gloating when the “innocence’is not a proven of no wrong doing but a direct result of using highly paid lawyers and finding loopholes.
Well done City are “innocents” lots of cents in fact 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The power of sportswashing. Look how City fans talk even on here. They pretend the hearing will determine whether they cheated when they hearing will only determine whether they get caught and punished for cheating.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 25 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I'm not really a fan of the historic clubs basically calling the shots and trying to discourage any smaller clubs getting included at the top table. There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
Making up sponsorships, making payments that aren't disclosed, selling assets for inflated prices to yourself and borrowing from yourself with no interest are all clearly unfair IMO.
I'm not really sure where the solution or balance should lie though.
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 25 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I'm not really a fan of the historic clubs basically calling the shots and trying to discourage any smaller clubs getting included at the top table. There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
Making up sponsorships, making payments that aren't disclosed, selling assets for inflated prices to yourself and borrowing from yourself with no interest are all clearly unfair IMO.
I'm not really sure where the solution or balance should lie though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed. Whichever way the game turns, there’ll be winners and losers.
On the fake sponsorship front, one might argue that City (if guilty) have only done things like that because of the rules that have been put in place, preventing the owners from making the progress they want to.
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
Gloating when the “innocence’is not a proven of no wrong doing but a direct result of using highly paid lawyers and finding loopholes.
Well done City are “innocents” lots of cents in fact 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The power of sportswashing. Look how City fans talk even on here. They pretend the hearing will determine whether they cheated when they hearing will only determine whether they get caught and punished for cheating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lol!
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So long as they are English though, eh?
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
Gloating when the “innocence’is not a proven of no wrong doing but a direct result of using highly paid lawyers and finding loopholes.
Well done City are “innocents” lots of cents in fact 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The power of sportswashing. Look how City fans talk even on here. They pretend the hearing will determine whether they cheated when they hearing will only determine whether they get caught and punished for cheating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So long as they are English though, eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the English league?
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So long as they are English though, eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the English league?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, of course, right?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure that’s now a debate on this specific topic at least with the current APT rules given they’ve been deemed unlawful.
On the other case, I don’t think there will be any change in rules regardless of the outcome.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
From wider reading on this, it seems as though City's challenge to the existing rules as fundamentally unfair, and on this it failed. The tribunal has upheld the principle that the associated party transaction rules (APT) prevents anti-competitive dynamics in the sport. Meanwhile, it has pointed out certain inconsistencies in the application of these rules, namely in the way that they haven't covered shareholder loans to clubs at low interest. (By the way, I read that City until relatively recently had no objection to that loophole.) This seems to me perfectly reasonable. We want to have a set of rules that applies to all clubs and constrains any kind of artificial financial support by the ownership, regardless of ownership model, subsidy mechanisms, and geographical location.
So taking away the partisan spin, it seems like this ruling is a good outcome: reinforcing rules that prevent anti-competitive forces; refining the rules so that they are applied consistently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with that to an extent, I’d rather see owners be more forced to inject equity rather than have to apply fmv on interest free loans though. We’re in danger now of rules being in place for benefits of owners far more than the clubs themselves and restricting competition even further as a consequence.
in 2003 Aurelio DiLaurentis bort a defunked SSC Napoli fore €30m
he pade himselve back over neckessed phew! yrs butt donet think he charge himselve interessed
wud that fall fowl of the new roolz in EPL thingy?
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 17 minutes ago
in 2003 Aurelio DiLaurentis bort a defunked SSC Napoli fore €30m
he pade himselve back over neckessed phew! yrs butt donet think he charge himselve interessed
wud that fall fowl of the new roolz in EPL thingy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends what they change the rules to. Since the implementation of the APT rules, then he should have been had they implemented lawful rules.
Seems like there’s more financial dopers about than people realised
It's a strange one. Many sports set rules to attempt to balance the playing field, F1 for instance is doing this constantly. Often when a car becomes too good they'll bring in a rule designed to bring the pack closer together.
Sports operate outside of many regular frameworks for various reasons. Without rules City could literally buy entire clubs and liquidate them the following year. Of course the Premier Leagues rules will be outside of regular business framework, there needs to be a balance but what next, appeal only being allowed 11 players on the pitch at one time?
The biggest mistake was when they started saying football is a business". In many ways it is a business but there is a crucial element in football, and indeed all sports, that means you cannot just completely subject them to the same rules as businesses. There must be exceptions and the special or unique nature of football must be taken into account.
From what I can see, City have down well out of this in so far as they won the 2 major sponsorship cases, proved the PL were actively being biased against clubs with owners from the Gulf and have enforced a rule change that could hinder our rivals.
The BBC seems to be the only media outlet that's promoting a 'City lost' narrative.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 9 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure that’s now a debate on this specific topic at least with the current APT rules given they’ve been deemed unlawful.
On the other case, I don’t think there will be any change in rules regardless of the outcome.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh absolutely, it’s not a debate in terms of where the rules should end up.
I just mean that fans should step back and consider that wider point, rather than falling into the typical tribal position without any consideration for whether the rules are actually fair or not.
I don’t see any Liverpool or United fans bemoaning their financial advantage over most clubs in the league.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 9 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure that’s now a debate on this specific topic at least with the current APT rules given they’ve been deemed unlawful.
On the other case, I don’t think there will be any change in rules regardless of the outcome.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh absolutely, it’s not a debate in terms of where the rules should end up.
I just mean that fans should step back and consider that wider point, rather than falling into the typical tribal position without any consideration for whether the rules are actually fair or not.
I don’t see any Liverpool or United fans bemoaning their financial advantage over most clubs in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see any of English football bemoaning the windfall that has fallen on them from Sky talking about the tribalism & bigger picture BS from a myopic national standpoint. Ditto for the crocodile tears over the ESL.
Whilst I will obviously follow what is happening, I won't pretend to have a great deal of knowledge of what City have breached and I don't have this great passion that they should be punished to the back and beyond.
Assuming they are guilty of some of the future charges, whatever punishment they get will probably satisfy no-one. But it's just dragged on and on, still to actually start and what will be will be.
But I don't view them as being wildly corrupt or bad for the game - every club will push the boundaries, and then defend themselves if they have pushed too far.
If this rule falls, you are going to have to get rid of ALL of the FFP rules, at every level. Because if you don't, you are giving a massive advantage to sides that are going to financially dope by sponsorship and similar deals just pumping money in.
Or, you have to put something else in place that does the same or similar thing.
Otherwise you can just pack up now. It's been hard enough to compete with City with their under the table cheating over the last decade, if they don't even hide it and Newcastle jump on the bandwagon, then those two sides are winning everything from here on.
It will be like the SPL writ large. With all the top players just getting hoovered up by the side that can literally pay whatever is needed. Why stay with a team paying £150k when the big two offer £300k?
Add in the changes to the transfer regime coming out of the Diarra case, and it doesn't look good.
Sign in if you want to comment
City win APT case
Page 6 of 16
7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
posted on 7/10/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 35 minutes ago
The clue is in the delay. This was a verdict delivered 14 days ago, one that City have been happy to publish since it arrived. The hold up has been at the Premier League’s end. Now they are trying to spin it out further. Clarifications, consultations, all the things a governing body does if it wants to fashion a tight rule book which, as Leicester City found much to their delight, isn’t the Premier League’s style at all. Why? There is another case ongoing involving Manchester City and 115 charges. So the APT decision likely impacts proceedings elsewhere. If the League can bog this down in legal process, they hope it won’t weaken their case against City yet further. The Premier League, its rulebook and executives are facing a firing squad but are now asking to inspect the guns to ensure they fit professional standards. What a shower they are.
----------------------------------------------
The excellent Martin Samuel
https://www.thetimes.com/article/5cc823c3-f9d6-485f-a33a-ce2a30e46706?shareToken=e8426ecba3590b5dfda09882181be90b&fbclid=IwY2xjawFxA61leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbtTziB3A9XY1L-jNvQu3-CPW8C9L2CEKMNRItZz2NGzgNJCkqPRW-lYFg_aem_rn2B2oEu2PZRhzFLLNTm-g
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine glorifying a fat Tory cuuuunt like Samuel
posted on 7/10/24
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
posted on 7/10/24
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 29 minutes ago
Owner loans are an unlawful method of financial doping.
Arsenal are a financially doped club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just dress up the owner loan as sponsorship, that should be acceptable.
posted on 7/10/24
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 55 seconds ago
City were in favour if ESL too. City fans are like Tories. Everything is a half truth or a twisted lie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Baled out within 24 hours with Chelsea as soon as the true details were revealed.
The Red Cartel were basically shamed by their fans to pull out and it wasn't a quick process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You honestly think City's owners bailed because of no relegation in the ESL?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...and no promotion.
Yes, they said as much.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're so niave
Reaction from fans from all clubs, the universal criticism in the press and government, but above all how of effects the bottom line were most likely considered well.before sporting integrity.
It's sweet that you think this though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why did it take Liverpool so long to pull out?
Boardroom full of slow thinkers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Liverpool Football Club can confirm that our involvement in proposed plans to form a European Super League has been discontinued.
In recent days, the club has received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally, and we would like to thank them for their valuable contributions."
Listened to the negative reaction and acted accordingly. They didn't try to kid the fans on it was about no relegation or promotion. What sort of dope would fall for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One called Thicky Gibson.
City saw that relegation promotion was a big deal and tried to endeavour themselves to football fans. Pathetic.
posted on 7/10/24
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
Gloating when the “innocence’is not a proven of no wrong doing but a direct result of using highly paid lawyers and finding loopholes.
Well done City are “innocents” lots of cents in fact 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The power of sportswashing. Look how City fans talk even on here. They pretend the hearing will determine whether they cheated when they hearing will only determine whether they get caught and punished for cheating.
posted on 7/10/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 25 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I'm not really a fan of the historic clubs basically calling the shots and trying to discourage any smaller clubs getting included at the top table. There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
Making up sponsorships, making payments that aren't disclosed, selling assets for inflated prices to yourself and borrowing from yourself with no interest are all clearly unfair IMO.
I'm not really sure where the solution or balance should lie though.
posted on 7/10/24
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 25 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I'm not really a fan of the historic clubs basically calling the shots and trying to discourage any smaller clubs getting included at the top table. There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
Making up sponsorships, making payments that aren't disclosed, selling assets for inflated prices to yourself and borrowing from yourself with no interest are all clearly unfair IMO.
I'm not really sure where the solution or balance should lie though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed. Whichever way the game turns, there’ll be winners and losers.
On the fake sponsorship front, one might argue that City (if guilty) have only done things like that because of the rules that have been put in place, preventing the owners from making the progress they want to.
posted on 7/10/24
posted on 7/10/24
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
Gloating when the “innocence’is not a proven of no wrong doing but a direct result of using highly paid lawyers and finding loopholes.
Well done City are “innocents” lots of cents in fact 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The power of sportswashing. Look how City fans talk even on here. They pretend the hearing will determine whether they cheated when they hearing will only determine whether they get caught and punished for cheating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lol!
posted on 7/10/24
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So long as they are English though, eh?
posted on 7/10/24
comment by Mamba - You hit us, We hit you. (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
Gloating when the “innocence’is not a proven of no wrong doing but a direct result of using highly paid lawyers and finding loopholes.
Well done City are “innocents” lots of cents in fact 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The power of sportswashing. Look how City fans talk even on here. They pretend the hearing will determine whether they cheated when they hearing will only determine whether they get caught and punished for cheating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
posted on 7/10/24
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So long as they are English though, eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the English league?
posted on 7/10/24
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by T-BAD (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
There should be routes for all clubs to be competitive but clearly some of the methods being used currently are unacceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So long as they are English though, eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the English league?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, of course, right?
posted on 7/10/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure that’s now a debate on this specific topic at least with the current APT rules given they’ve been deemed unlawful.
On the other case, I don’t think there will be any change in rules regardless of the outcome.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
From wider reading on this, it seems as though City's challenge to the existing rules as fundamentally unfair, and on this it failed. The tribunal has upheld the principle that the associated party transaction rules (APT) prevents anti-competitive dynamics in the sport. Meanwhile, it has pointed out certain inconsistencies in the application of these rules, namely in the way that they haven't covered shareholder loans to clubs at low interest. (By the way, I read that City until relatively recently had no objection to that loophole.) This seems to me perfectly reasonable. We want to have a set of rules that applies to all clubs and constrains any kind of artificial financial support by the ownership, regardless of ownership model, subsidy mechanisms, and geographical location.
So taking away the partisan spin, it seems like this ruling is a good outcome: reinforcing rules that prevent anti-competitive forces; refining the rules so that they are applied consistently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with that to an extent, I’d rather see owners be more forced to inject equity rather than have to apply fmv on interest free loans though. We’re in danger now of rules being in place for benefits of owners far more than the clubs themselves and restricting competition even further as a consequence.
posted on 8/10/24
in 2003 Aurelio DiLaurentis bort a defunked SSC Napoli fore €30m
he pade himselve back over neckessed phew! yrs butt donet think he charge himselve interessed
wud that fall fowl of the new roolz in EPL thingy?
posted on 8/10/24
comment by #4zA (U22472)
posted 17 minutes ago
in 2003 Aurelio DiLaurentis bort a defunked SSC Napoli fore €30m
he pade himselve back over neckessed phew! yrs butt donet think he charge himselve interessed
wud that fall fowl of the new roolz in EPL thingy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends what they change the rules to. Since the implementation of the APT rules, then he should have been had they implemented lawful rules.
Seems like there’s more financial dopers about than people realised
posted on 8/10/24
It's a strange one. Many sports set rules to attempt to balance the playing field, F1 for instance is doing this constantly. Often when a car becomes too good they'll bring in a rule designed to bring the pack closer together.
Sports operate outside of many regular frameworks for various reasons. Without rules City could literally buy entire clubs and liquidate them the following year. Of course the Premier Leagues rules will be outside of regular business framework, there needs to be a balance but what next, appeal only being allowed 11 players on the pitch at one time?
posted on 8/10/24
The biggest mistake was when they started saying football is a business". In many ways it is a business but there is a crucial element in football, and indeed all sports, that means you cannot just completely subject them to the same rules as businesses. There must be exceptions and the special or unique nature of football must be taken into account.
posted on 8/10/24
From what I can see, City have down well out of this in so far as they won the 2 major sponsorship cases, proved the PL were actively being biased against clubs with owners from the Gulf and have enforced a rule change that could hinder our rivals.
The BBC seems to be the only media outlet that's promoting a 'City lost' narrative.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 9 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure that’s now a debate on this specific topic at least with the current APT rules given they’ve been deemed unlawful.
On the other case, I don’t think there will be any change in rules regardless of the outcome.
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Oh absolutely, it’s not a debate in terms of where the rules should end up.
I just mean that fans should step back and consider that wider point, rather than falling into the typical tribal position without any consideration for whether the rules are actually fair or not.
I don’t see any Liverpool or United fans bemoaning their financial advantage over most clubs in the league.
posted on 8/10/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 9 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
As ever, this discussion will take the form of City fans convincing themselves that they’ve done nothing wrong and rival fans will do the opposite.
It’s all so tribal, with little objective thinking or appreciation for the bigger picture.
The big clubs have all got where they are because of a financial advantage. City ‘cheating’ a system that wasn’t even in place when United, Liverpool, Chelsea et al gained their advantage is not really something for fans to be getting on their high horse about imo.
I think the real debate is about whether these financial rules are actually fit for purpose and what football looks like without them.
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Not sure that’s now a debate on this specific topic at least with the current APT rules given they’ve been deemed unlawful.
On the other case, I don’t think there will be any change in rules regardless of the outcome.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh absolutely, it’s not a debate in terms of where the rules should end up.
I just mean that fans should step back and consider that wider point, rather than falling into the typical tribal position without any consideration for whether the rules are actually fair or not.
I don’t see any Liverpool or United fans bemoaning their financial advantage over most clubs in the league.
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I don't see any of English football bemoaning the windfall that has fallen on them from Sky talking about the tribalism & bigger picture BS from a myopic national standpoint. Ditto for the crocodile tears over the ESL.
posted on 8/10/24
Whilst I will obviously follow what is happening, I won't pretend to have a great deal of knowledge of what City have breached and I don't have this great passion that they should be punished to the back and beyond.
Assuming they are guilty of some of the future charges, whatever punishment they get will probably satisfy no-one. But it's just dragged on and on, still to actually start and what will be will be.
But I don't view them as being wildly corrupt or bad for the game - every club will push the boundaries, and then defend themselves if they have pushed too far.
posted on 8/10/24
If this rule falls, you are going to have to get rid of ALL of the FFP rules, at every level. Because if you don't, you are giving a massive advantage to sides that are going to financially dope by sponsorship and similar deals just pumping money in.
Or, you have to put something else in place that does the same or similar thing.
Otherwise you can just pack up now. It's been hard enough to compete with City with their under the table cheating over the last decade, if they don't even hide it and Newcastle jump on the bandwagon, then those two sides are winning everything from here on.
It will be like the SPL writ large. With all the top players just getting hoovered up by the side that can literally pay whatever is needed. Why stay with a team paying £150k when the big two offer £300k?
Add in the changes to the transfer regime coming out of the Diarra case, and it doesn't look good.
posted on 8/10/24
Cry me a river
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