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Toxic culture?

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posted on 4/11/24

I like this from the new boss!

Rúben Amorim on Sporting to face Man City: “If the result is negative, the expectations about me will drop…”.

“But if we win, they will think the new Sir Alex Ferguson has arrived!”

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Obi Van Kobbie (U4302)
posted 11 minutes ago
I think some of the players just can't handle the pressure of playing for Utd, its not the same as other clubs due to higher exposure in the media and social media, they are far more scrutinised due to the popularity, effects the managers too. The weight of the shirt is too much for some players.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

This is definitely a factor, along with stage fright. It's clear that, despite how they view themselves, many players are not performing at the level they believe they are. We don't know for certain if the current squad could contribute under a different coach and structure, but as many have pointed out, to be considered an elite club, substantial surgery to the squad will be required.

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 4/11/24

I view it more as an exciting time - I have really bought into Amorim bigtime - nothing more than it just feels right, which I've never really had before with previous managers. I think he will just do what he does, and hopefully the players respond - no point in making more complicated than what it needs to be.

Even with the 2 cups, the time with ETH just felt very low - it felt like hard work watching the team play, even when we won, I don't mean the cups but generally, it didn't feel as enjoyable as it could be, more a relief. I just hope Amorim can get us to play better football on the eye, and maybe dominate a few games and score a few goals. there will be mistakes along the way, but let's make some progress than the fans can actually enjoy

posted on 4/11/24

comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Obi Van Kobbie (U4302)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think some of the players just can't handle the pressure of playing for Utd, its not the same as other clubs due to higher exposure in the media and social media, they are far more scrutinised due to the popularity, effects the managers too. The weight of the shirt is too much for some players.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that's when you need a strong manager with good man-management skills to help players cope with that. ETH just lacked those skills, and if anything, suffered from being Utd boss also. Let's just hope Amorim can cope with it better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stronger manager that's a proper leader, but also recruitment needs to be better to identify players that can handle the pressure, not only talent, that's where SAF was a master. Zirkzee looks like he's terrified getting on the pitch. His body language says it all, even worse than Martial. We just replaced Martial with a...slower overweight Dutch Martial.

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 JA... (U2462)
posted 6 minutes ago
I like this from the new boss!

Rúben Amorim on Sporting to face Man City: “If the result is negative, the expectations about me will drop…”.

“But if we win, they will think the new Sir Alex Ferguson has arrived!”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see, this is the type of quip that I like from this guy - a natural in front of the press. of course there's more to management than that, but he looks comfortable in dealing with this role. Erik never looked comfortable, just didn't feel confident with him. Amorim is different in that respect.

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Obi Van Kobbie (U4302)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Obi Van Kobbie (U4302)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think some of the players just can't handle the pressure of playing for Utd, its not the same as other clubs due to higher exposure in the media and social media, they are far more scrutinised due to the popularity, effects the managers too. The weight of the shirt is too much for some players.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that's when you need a strong manager with good man-management skills to help players cope with that. ETH just lacked those skills, and if anything, suffered from being Utd boss also. Let's just hope Amorim can cope with it better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stronger manager that's a proper leader, but also recruitment needs to be better to identify players that can handle the pressure, not only talent, that's where SAF was a master. Zirkzee looks like he's terrified getting on the pitch. His body language says it all, even worse than Martial. We just replaced Martial with a...slower overweight Dutch Martial.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amorim will turn him into Cryuff.....................not sure if dad or son though

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Obi Van Kobbie (U4302)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Obi Van Kobbie (U4302)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think some of the players just can't handle the pressure of playing for Utd, its not the same as other clubs due to higher exposure in the media and social media, they are far more scrutinised due to the popularity, effects the managers too. The weight of the shirt is too much for some players.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that's when you need a strong manager with good man-management skills to help players cope with that. ETH just lacked those skills, and if anything, suffered from being Utd boss also. Let's just hope Amorim can cope with it better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stronger manager that's a proper leader, but also recruitment needs to be better to identify players that can handle the pressure, not only talent, that's where SAF was a master. Zirkzee looks like he's terrified getting on the pitch. His body language says it all, even worse than Martial. We just replaced Martial with a...slower overweight Dutch Martial.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And of course Fergie was great, but he picked some right duffers also...............we all know a list of players that had no right being here during Fergie's time Obertan??!! he was fergie's Antony

posted on 4/11/24

comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 11 seconds ago

comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home aga... (U21595)
posted 30 seconds ago
I don't believe the fans were hurling abuse as they came out the tunnel. For the first 20 mins the crowd was right behind them.

-------------------------

defo did, was surprised to hear this too, new manager etc....

he said it was so toxic near that tunnel
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Think I saw Britney Spears if that helps.

---------------------------------

sigh,

Somebody comes on and posts in peace, informing you of something that happened at your game, and you make it a toxic time.....

well there you go, I guess

anyone wishing to discuss this sensibly, let me know
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I was there. Didn't hear it. <w@nkhor>

posted on 4/11/24

When I watch United i see many issues, not just one specific cause.

The squad assembly has been very poor. Some poor quality players who were never good enough and some quality players who are not performing. Both of those on the manager IMO

As a result too much reliance has been placed on youth with Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad expected to carry a lot of the attacking burden and energy in the team.

Then there is the balance of the squad/team. For so much spent to lack any pace at the back and any real legs or power in the midfield is quite mind blowing really. SOme players like Erisken and Casemiro simply do not have the legs, while Mount is a crock. Even if fit, where he'd fit into a team with Bruno at 10 is a mystery.

Then some players have a bit of a sucky attitude, with the chief culprit being Rashford, but then there has also be Sancho.

All of these areas need addressing and I expect some fairly ruthless culling from your new man come next summer and your owners will have to take a view as to whether they swallow some losses on some big names/transfers .

I feel a club only becomes toxic when the fans start to really attack the club and its hierarchy and players. Social media can give a false impression about this and really it is the match going fans who count when it comes to support or bad atmosphere. Utd generally stick by their players and coach even in the bad times so from the outside its never looked like its got toxic.

Amorim is a modern coach, he'll demand a lot from the players and i think he can do very well. But i really think your squad does not have the legs and technical ability to thrive under him, as it stands. Some pretty extensive surgery to the squad will be needed and, therefore, a fair amount of patience.

posted on 4/11/24

SAF was a presence though, he terrified the journalists and the officials, and the players knew he would protect them, commanded so much respect, which is why they would run through a brick wall for him. That's the kind of character you need to manage Utd, ETH unfortunately had none of that, just seemed way too timid, same with Ole and Moyes. Jose and LVG were just control freak lunatics.

posted on 4/11/24

Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you expect/hope to see in the short term? What's realistic do you think?

posted on 4/11/24

We also need to set up a poll to guess what we reckon comic book guy and scholay will call Amorim when we lose our first game under his tenure and they throw their toys out of their prams.

Ruben Shamorim? Ruben Amoron? Rotten Amorim?

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you expect/hope to see in the short term? What's realistic do you think?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, I have no idea whatsoever.

I don’t think our players are remotely used to or practised in what he’ll want to see, and I don’t think they have the physical attributes to pull it off.

I expect we’re going to see a huge squad churn if he sticks to his principles, and what that means in the short term, who facking knows.

Could be messy, tbh.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (
posted 10 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

👍

Rosso, you should definitely write an article. These articles aim not only for engagement but also to educate one another and stop the growth of rogue outliers within our fanbase, they know who they are! 😊😂

posted on 4/11/24

comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you expect/hope to see in the short term? What's realistic do you think?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, I have no idea whatsoever.

I don’t think our players are remotely used to or practised in what he’ll want to see, and I don’t think they have the physical attributes to pull it off.

I expect we’re going to see a huge squad churn if he sticks to his principles, and what that means in the short term, who facking knows.

Could be messy, tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh! Is there any positivity at all for the short term, Rosso? Anything will do!

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you expect/hope to see in the short term? What's realistic do you think?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, I have no idea whatsoever.

I don’t think our players are remotely used to or practised in what he’ll want to see, and I don’t think they have the physical attributes to pull it off.

I expect we’re going to see a huge squad churn if he sticks to his principles, and what that means in the short term, who facking knows.

Could be messy, tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh! Is there any positivity at all for the short term, Rosso? Anything will do!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, we probably get, like, a fortnight off from listening to the Diddums Crew whine and wail like teething babies

Enjoy it whilst it lasts.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Devonshirespur
posted 52 minutes ago
When I watch United i see many issues, not just one specific cause.

The squad assembly has been very poor. Some poor quality players who were never good enough and some quality players who are not performing. Both of those on the manager IMO

As a result too much reliance has been placed on youth with Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad expected to carry a lot of the attacking burden and energy in the team.

Then there is the balance of the squad/team. For so much spent to lack any pace at the back and any real legs or power in the midfield is quite mind blowing really. SOme players like Erisken and Casemiro simply do not have the legs, while Mount is a crock. Even if fit, where he'd fit into a team with Bruno at 10 is a mystery.

Then some players have a bit of a sucky attitude, with the chief culprit being Rashford, but then there has also be Sancho.

All of these areas need addressing and I expect some fairly ruthless culling from your new man come next summer and your owners will have to take a view as to whether they swallow some losses on some big names/transfers .

I feel a club only becomes toxic when the fans start to really attack the club and its hierarchy and players. Social media can give a false impression about this and really it is the match going fans who count when it comes to support or bad atmosphere. Utd generally stick by their players and coach even in the bad times so from the outside its never looked like its got toxic.

Amorim is a modern coach, he'll demand a lot from the players and i think he can do very well. But i really think your squad does not have the legs and technical ability to thrive under him, as it stands. Some pretty extensive surgery to the squad will be needed and, therefore, a fair amount of patience.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

The sensible approach is to give Amorim time. However, as we saw with EtH, time alone may not be enough, ultimately, results became the key factor. A main bone of contention for many fans was the lack of visible, incremental improvements. Fans struggled to recognise progress on the pitch, leading to doubts about whether the spending during his time matched performance, despite delivering cup success. It's an unfair metric but you can understand why many fans use it. EtH's misfortune was managing the club largely under non-sporting professionals, and it wasn't until this summer that he began to benefit from a DOF, though it proved futile at the end.

Let’s hope Amorim can take advantage of what his predecessors lacked and the DOF shapes the squad with the Portuguese in mind. The squad should be shaped irrespective of the coach with a long term sustainable view in mind anyway but I am intrigued by our blueprint to success, whatever that may be. Amorim's initial contract is for 2.5 years, with the option for an additional year, which would satisfy a major milestone for the club as Sir Jim aims for title glory as part of "Project 150"! Hopefully, by that stage, or even before, the club would have a new majority shareholder!

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Obi Van Kobbie
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
SAF was a presence though, he terrified the journalists and the officials, and the players knew he would protect them, commanded so much respect, which is why they would run through a brick wall for him. That's the kind of character you need to manage Utd, ETH unfortunately had none of that, just seemed way too timid, same with Ole and Moyes. Jose and LVG were just control freak lunatics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Respect is an asset, especially in the dressing room. While most players feared SAF, some did not, but he knew exactly who to challenge and never hesitated to go after those who thought themselves immune to his sharp tongue, always choosing the right moment! His approach wasn’t about bullying, it was about motivating and drawing out that extra 10% from his players. In the end he had the respect of the squad. Guardiola also uses psychology to empower and embolden his team at City.

Apart from Van Gaal and Mourinho, few have managed to master psychological warfare to good effect in the dressing room or with the media at Utd that I can recall. EtH, despite his reputation as a disciplinarian, seemed on the surface to be the least imposing of our recent managers. In the end, he struggled to strike the balance needed to truly win over the squad and the media.


posted on 4/11/24

comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won’t get that at Manchester United.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won’t get that at Manchester United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that is indeed the case, then I predict he’s facked

posted on 4/11/24

comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, R... (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won’t get that at Manchester United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that is indeed the case, then I predict he’s facked
----------------------------------------------------------------------

May as well ready your Amorim Out articles now!

posted on 4/11/24

He'll get 24 months if the performances improve and we can see clear direction of travel, even without any success trophy wise. It really is about performances, and specally league performances, not much more.

It took Klopp two years to get the scousers into the top 4 and he won fck all in that time, but his style of football and what he was trying to embed was clear. You can probably say similar about Unai and Arteta.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Ruben The King Amorim Tim Tagi Dim (U10026)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by It’s time for some Lancashire hotPote, Ruben (U17054)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
Probably deserves an article, rather than just a comment to explain, but Amorim is going to need…

TIME.

A lot of time.

He’s going to change the coaching staff. He’s going to change the way in which we play - completely - and the standards demanded of the players physically and mentally. He’s going to tear up what these players have been used to tactically and start again. And he’s going to need a lot of new players to get his system working.

Anyone expecting a revolution within a month or two of him coming in should switch off now to avoid disappointment.

As Vengeance has said, we’re talking 24 months before we can expect to see something like Amorim will have in mind for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won’t get that at Manchester United.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that is indeed the case, then I predict he’s facked
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same.

posted on 4/11/24

Willing to give Amorim plenty of time in terms of results but I do want to see an improvement in style reasonably quickly. Other manager have made huge changes at clubs without signing their own players.

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