comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
Even Nixon didn’t face indictments 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because he resigned. Have another go.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
I already have and you don’t even realise it, that’s how bad your blind spot is VC

.............

How is the documents case unjust. A Grand Jury agreed with the indictment.

Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was it not dismissed?

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
Even Nixon didn’t face indictments 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because he resigned. Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he was pardoned

Have another go

Do you not see? You’re making my point for me. Enjoy your blind rage over Trump VC. Maybe Luke Skywalker will save you

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
I already have and you don’t even realise it, that’s how bad your blind spot is VC

.............

How is the documents case unjust. A Grand Jury agreed with the indictment.

Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was it not dismissed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

By a Trump appointed Judge, who he has said he may reward by making her Attorney Geneal.

Have another go.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
Even Nixon didn’t face indictments 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because he resigned. Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he was pardoned

Have another go

Do you not see? You’re making my point for me. Enjoy your blind rage over Trump VC. Maybe Luke Skywalker will save you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm confused. Are you a trump fan?

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
Even Nixon didn’t face indictments 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because he resigned. Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he was pardoned

Have another go

Do you not see? You’re making my point for me. Enjoy your blind rage over Trump VC. Maybe Luke Skywalker will save you
----------------------------------------------------------------------

He was pardoned after he resigned by his vice president when he took over. A pardon is an admission of guilt.

Have another go.

Take the number that he was charged with minus the ones he was convicted of and there’s your answer.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Very simplistic, particularly given that most of the key cases are still going through the typically slow legal process (with Trump's legal teams doing everything they can to delay things until after November).

On Hush Money / falsifying accounts, he has been found guilty and awaits sentencing this month.

On retention of classified documents, a Trump-appointed judge threw out the case, not on the evidence but questioning the legal basis of the appointment of an investigator.

The Federal case on Election Interference in Georgia, the case still awaits trial. This has been delayed by the successful argument to the Trump-appointed Supreme Court majority that a President enjoys immunity for criminal actions taken in office, so the prosecutor is rebuilding the case to satisfy that ruling.

The state-level charges on his efforts to overturn the election result in Georgia is paused. Some of the specific charges were thrown out by the judge, leaving several in tact. Meanwhile there is an effort to get the District Attorney who brought the charges dismissed.

Finally, the January 6th case has barely got started. The delay is primarily around the SCOTUS aforementioned ruling that a POTUS has "some immunity from criminal prosecution" for their 'official acts' made during their presidency, which has forced the special counsel to rewrite the indictment.

Very hard to look at these facts and conclude that they add up to a vendetta consisting of spurious charges that have been tested and defeated in a court of law.

Here's a handy summary of indictments relating to his presidency (for some reason not covering the 6/1 case): https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2023/07/politics/trump-indictments-criminal-cases/index.html

Also - I’ll remind you what I actually said rather than you introducing the concept of ‘just’

I said that the Democratic Party went above and beyond in a deliberate tactic to discredit and literally jail him.

All of the historic examples I have given which you are conveniently ignoring demonstrate previous actions or lack thereof against former presidents. Until Trump.

My demonstration of the notable change in this regard is undeniable, you can deny it if you want but you fail to demonstrate your point with context. All you have is ‘have another go’. Sorry but that doesn’t cut it with intelligent adults, you just make your case. If you want to provide a rebuttal to my point then you need to demonstrate that there has NOT been a significant change in legal actions against a political opponent in the United States of America. So far, you have failed to do that.

The floor is yours but somehow I predict that you won’t even attempt it because it is beyond you. It is beyond you because you think this debate is about Trump, when it isn’t. It is about a tactic employed by democrats, which I believe to have been a mistake.

If you carry on about Trump rather than the point at hand, I’ll just leave to cry about trump into your pillow by yourself.

You choose how we proceed, there’s a good lad.

comment by Ali - 🇪🇦 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 (U1192)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
Even Nixon didn’t face indictments 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Because he resigned. Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he was pardoned

Have another go

Do you not see? You’re making my point for me. Enjoy your blind rage over Trump VC. Maybe Luke Skywalker will save you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm confused. Are you a trump fan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, the fundamentals of this debate is not to do with trump despite VC’s attempts to make it so because he is obsessively disgusted by him.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
I already have and you don’t even realise it, that’s how bad your blind spot is VC

.............

How is the documents case unjust. A Grand Jury agreed with the indictment.

Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was it not dismissed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

By a Trump appointed Judge, who he has said he may reward by making her Attorney Geneal.

Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So it was dismissed, thank you for confirming.

I disagreed with you from the start man, I was sure Trump won this thing but you talked me down. I guess now we just have to suffer the smug arrogance in our faces the next four years

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Take the number that he was charged with minus the ones he was convicted of and there’s your answer.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Very simplistic, particularly given that most of the key cases are still going through the typically slow legal process (with Trump's legal teams doing everything they can to delay things until after November).

On Hush Money / falsifying accounts, he has been found guilty and awaits sentencing this month.

On retention of classified documents, a Trump-appointed judge threw out the case, not on the evidence but questioning the legal basis of the appointment of an investigator.

The Federal case on Election Interference in Georgia, the case still awaits trial. This has been delayed by the successful argument to the Trump-appointed Supreme Court majority that a President enjoys immunity for criminal actions taken in office, so the prosecutor is rebuilding the case to satisfy that ruling.

The state-level charges on his efforts to overturn the election result in Georgia is paused. Some of the specific charges were thrown out by the judge, leaving several in tact. Meanwhile there is an effort to get the District Attorney who brought the charges dismissed.

Finally, the January 6th case has barely got started. The delay is primarily around the SCOTUS aforementioned ruling that a POTUS has "some immunity from criminal prosecution" for their 'official acts' made during their presidency, which has forced the special counsel to rewrite the indictment.

Very hard to look at these facts and conclude that they add up to a vendetta consisting of spurious charges that have been tested and defeated in a court of law.

Here's a handy summary of indictments relating to his presidency (for some reason not covering the 6/1 case): https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2023/07/politics/trump-indictments-criminal-cases/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, like VC, you’re missing the point entirely.

The point was that the democrats deliberately chose to go after him for everything they could. Which I think was a mistake as it made a martyr out of him. Further emboldening his support. They should have just ignored him all the way back in 2015, brushed him aside as a class clown. Their errors fed him and helped create what we see today.

RR

I do not think any of them will happen now. He will probably get a fine for the hush money one.

He will have the State Level one in Georgia thrown out.

The ones that are Federal Crimes he will have thrown out by his new Attorney General.

I’m very interested to see what now happens with Elon Musk - I’m guessing he is going to get what he wants, but what does he really want?

He has enough money
He has enough fame

So it must be power, but in what form?

Warren Buffet came out two weeks ago saying all markets were pointing towards a strong trump win.

How people are surprised is quite frankly odd.

What a mess this is going to be.

So it was dismissed, thank you for confirming.

.................

No one said it was not dismissed so not sure why you think that has any relevance. Have another go.

The point was that the democrats deliberately chose to go after him for everything they could.

...

Only two of those cases are from the DOJ. Have another go.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
So it was dismissed, thank you for confirming.

.................

No one said it was not dismissed so not sure why you think that has any relevance. Have another go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re not going to discuss the point at hand, then I wish you good day as I’m not wasting my time on you.

comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
I’m very interested to see what now happens with Elon Musk - I’m guessing he is going to get what he wants, but what does he really want?

He has enough money
He has enough fame

So it must be power, but in what form?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Interestingly, Trump and his minions are against Electric Vehicles.

One of the really scary thigs to me is who Trump puts in power and where.

If you’re not going to discuss the point at hand, then I wish you good day as I’m not wasting my time on you.

.................

You are not wasting your time. Your squirming is very entertaining.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 2 minutes ago
I’m very interested to see what now happens with Elon Musk - I’m guessing he is going to get what he wants, but what does he really want?

He has enough money
He has enough fame

So it must be power, but in what form?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Interestingly, Trump and his minions are against Electric Vehicles.

One of the really scary thigs to me is who Trump puts in power and where.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

He has spoken about putting musk in charge of the efficiency department they are creating.

Musk can only take the role on a part time basis though, he would have to put his businesses in trust if he wanted to do it in a full time basis.

RFK jr is to be health chief

His views on vaccines are quite worrying

I'm not missing your point, SatNav. I just don't accept it has any merit. But you did start by claiming the Democrats had 'weaponised' the justice system in a way that is equivalent to what we expect Trump to do. For that to hold any weight, you'd have to demonstrate that 1) Democrats have acted in a coordinated, strategic way, driven by the leadership and 2) that Trump's actions didn't merit prosecution. There is no evidence that the Biden administration has exerted political pressure on city / state / federal prosecutors. The key indictments were validated by grand juries (i.e. ordinary Americans who swore a solemn oath and were presented with the facts). And there is nothing in the those criminal processes so far that suggests the indictments were baseless.

Whether the indictments hurt or helped Trump is a separate question, but because they weren't the result of a political initiative on the part of Biden, I don't think it's very helpful to relate this to the topic of political tactics. However, since you digress into that territory, I'm sceptical about the truism that left-wing overreach is the main thing that feeds the growth of right-wing populism. Why is right-wing rhetoric increasingly racist? - Antifa went too far, people got fed up! Why are people turning to authoritarian ideas? - They're fed up with wokeism! Why do they call Trump a dangerous demagogue, why are they prosecuting him - that will only anger his supporters. All of these are variations of the idea that liberalism went too far and that made a lot of people get very illiberal. I think the authoritarian populist trend has more complicated roots than that, as evidenced by the fact that it is taking place across many geographies, including ones where conservative politics is already in power. The Tories moved successively in that direction between 2010 and 2024, presenting by far the most authoritarian and identitarian government in post-War history by the time they faced this year's election. And they lost largely because a large chunk of their electorate defected to a party that was even further to the right on the authoritarian/nationalist scale.

comment by Ali - 🇪🇦 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 (U1192)
posted 35 minutes ago

I'm confused. Are you a trump fan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The opinion polls once again underestimated Trump's support among voters, which clearly tells us there are a lot of people out there who support Trump deep down, but will never say out loud.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
I'm not missing your point, SatNav. I just don't accept it has any merit. But you did start by claiming the Democrats had 'weaponised' the justice system in a way that is equivalent to what we expect Trump to do. For that to hold any weight, you'd have to demonstrate that 1) Democrats have acted in a coordinated, strategic way, driven by the leadership and 2) that Trump's actions didn't merit prosecution. There is no evidence that the Biden administration has exerted political pressure on city / state / federal prosecutors. The key indictments were validated by grand juries (i.e. ordinary Americans who swore a solemn oath and were presented with the facts). And there is nothing in the those criminal processes so far that suggests the indictments were baseless.

Whether the indictments hurt or helped Trump is a separate question, but because they weren't the result of a political initiative on the part of Biden, I don't think it's very helpful to relate this to the topic of political tactics. However, since you digress into that territory, I'm sceptical about the truism that left-wing overreach is the main thing that feeds the growth of right-wing populism. Why is right-wing rhetoric increasingly racist? - Antifa went too far, people got fed up! Why are people turning to authoritarian ideas? - They're fed up with wokeism! Why do they call Trump a dangerous demagogue, why are they prosecuting him - that will only anger his supporters. All of these are variations of the idea that liberalism went too far and that made a lot of people get very illiberal. I think the authoritarian populist trend has more complicated roots than that, as evidenced by the fact that it is taking place across many geographies, including ones where conservative politics is already in power. The Tories moved successively in that direction between 2010 and 2024, presenting by far the most authoritarian and identitarian government in post-War history by the time they faced this year's election. And they lost largely because a large chunk of their electorate defected to a party that was even further to the right on the authoritarian/nationalist scale.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way did you reply to me earlier asking you to flesh out your statements? I think I missed it or you did.

Anyway, sticking with the example that I gave VC about the mishandling classified documents.

1. Do you think that Trump is the only president or senior politician to do so?
2. Out of those that also did, how many were charged?


That is why I brought up that example as it clearly demonstrates my point that the democrats ramped up legal proceedings against trump in order to discredit and hopefully jail him.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-trump-classified-documents-president-33df0355c72e9ae8fa4cb6ead13f6521


https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/05/17/not-just-trump-and-biden-every-administration-since-reagan-mishandled-classified-records-national-archives-finds/


And also as mentioned all of the illegal misdoings of other previous presidents which went without charges versus everything they threw at trump, is the disparity I am pointing to. I am not commenting on the legal validity of those charges as I, nor anyone here most likely, is qualified enough to intelligently pass judgment.