comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 28 minutes ago
E

As you probably expect, I'm not on board with the 'top international manager' assessment. I expected us to go out to the first decent team we faced and we did just that. To put it all on Kane's missed pen is unfair. We couldn't craft a goal from open play.

That being said, we played well, he didn't make any notable errors, etc. And yes, I disagree with the memeing and would suggest that he deserves to keep his job.
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It's not so much of a case of putting it on Kane's pen its more a case of the fact that we created a similar amount during open play. Then if you factor in two penalties + a dangerous freekick we had the opportunities to win, it was just the players (who are usually very good at scoring) not being able to take their chances. Which happens.

I actually think Southgate got us performing at a + this tournament. We destroyed a good Iran side, completely shut down a shiiiiit Wales side, breezed past the African Champions and outplayed the French. It wasn't like the Euros where he just played the same formation as the opposition and backed us to win on better individual quality - we actually took the game to every team we played.

comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 13 minutes ago
Looking around at our peers I can't help but be slightly envious. Flick, Deschamps, van Gaal, Mancini.. some impressive resumes there. We've got a relegated and sacked Boro manager..

Obviously you can point to the above and their relative failures, and I'd point to your observation that international managers add maybe +-5. I think Southgate now is a par manager. We're not performing any worse than we should be with him, but we're not performing any better either.

There's no basis to assume that he's going to improve. That's not too say he isn't and can't, but the only learned experience he's got to rely on when things get tough is that of failure.
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Its funny you say that about the other managers, that was often my critique of the situation. However at the same time I look at it and I'm like:
Deschamps + Mancini obvious quality (although Deschamps basically manages the same as Southgate but has better players lol)
Flick - did really well in a weird COVID Bubble season, but has looked genuinely shocking for Germany
LVG - a good manager but plays really weird football and his best days are definitely behind him
Luis Enrique - a decent CV but I have never thought he was a good manager

My biggest issue though is I get not being a fan of Southgate, but some of the criticism you see (especially on here). About everything he does is ridiculous, had Kane's finishing been about par he would have had a brace; Tchouameni scored a shot that goes in 1 time out of 50; had the referee not been a b*llend France wouldn't have been able to break up play without being punished so easily.

Football is so unpredictable, especially single legged straight knockout football, that its such an obscenely harsh thing to criticise a manager for.

Yeah I can't really say Southgate is much worse than them. Though I would say Mancini is. That tactical switch during the final just undid us. And we were the better team on paper.

Meh I don't really care that much. Part of the reason you can make an argument against all them good managers is international football is largely a career graveyard. No one cares that much, and if you're good it's because the players are. If you're chit a whole country hates you. And it can't even pay that well compared to most leagues

Mancini is better*

Mancini was awesome for Italy (but even he couldnt make the worldcup )

The North Macedonia coach is the goat. Obvs

Southgate played things a lot better than I thought he would, we played good positive football and he seemed to get most of the big decisions correctly (Henderson's role, Maguire played well, White & Sterling issues) and he's clearly very good at preparing the side for these games, I think where he still falls short is the in game management personally.

I think I'd probably still give him the Euros, partly on the basis of not having another stand out candidate and partly on the basis of us looking better this tournament.

Still have question marks over him though and if we still can't get it right against a top side with this group being closer to their peak next time around then at that point it's probably a pattern that can't be denied, unless he's very unlucky.

I agree with that

TBag

I'm no fan of Southgate but seems bizzare to get rid considering the last 3 tournaments have been incredibly positive and the group really gel with him

The hilarious thing to add to it all, is that the candidate lined up to replace him is meant to be Gerrard

Ffs

other than the most shiiite Germany team since the War (and you beat them at Wembley), what major football nation has England won against in tournament footy under Sir Gareth ?

comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 8 hours, 21 minutes ago
TBag

I'm no fan of Southgate but seems bizzare to get rid considering the last 3 tournaments have been incredibly positive and the group really gel with him
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Yeah same, I had a lot of issues with him but he's answered some of those this tournament. If he can continue to improve (and I think he's earned the chance to have a go) then who knows.

Surely if he keeps getting us to good positions then we'll just fluke a result against a decent team eventually

Gerrard would be such a mess

It’s weird with Southgate. He’s not some sort of tactical genius but the togetherness he’s bought to the set up can’t be understated.

I feel like we're settling for a meh manager because he's a nice guy. Can't we have someone who's tactically astute and nice?

I notice Brazil are chasing Pep

comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
other than the most shiiite Germany team since the War (and you beat them at Wembley), what major football nation has England won against in tournament footy under Sir Gareth ?

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Define "major football nation", because you are massively moving the goalposts for Germany but not other nations we have faced

How about Brodgers?

comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 10 seconds ago
How about Brodgers?
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Rodgers would be worse than Southgate from a tactical viewpoint

Dunno about that. Though you don't want someone that's going to try and be clever. Just play the best players in a formation they all know and let them have ketchup. That 5% is lacking though, for me.

And like Peks said, we only find that out every couple of years

But then, regardless of the 5% part.

Did we do enough to beat France? If both teams get the same amount of chances in 10 games in a row - who do you think wins?

I dunno. Maybe Southgate has learned and will get an edge

Sriracha

comment by #4zA - Orso di Cocaina (U22472)
posted 1 minute ago
Sriracha
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Decent condiment

I mean he’s not tactically clueless and he’s certainly better than most international managers out there.

He’s a good solid international manager that’s been unlucky in the finer details.