Cas, tooth fairy, right? - I must admit though, I didn;t think the tooth fairy was called winston, and drove a range rover, still, it takes allsorts doesn't it?

Tuscany, I think that most have been an early Christmas present to you wife from your good neighbor

Norway, thing is we don't have neighbours, we are surrounded by fields with horses in them - I thought Santa was a bit miserable to be honest, my wife asked him why he had a long face..... boom tssssss

Tuacany

Don't say she was trying to give you an early Christmas present?

Norway just on a different subject. Whats the Nowegian view on the death penalty these days, due to the mass murders?

Norway

Doc, I'm all for it
And I think in this case a lot of people are.

Whats the Nowegian view on the death penalty these days, due to the mass murders?

--------

Doc, I'm all for it
And I think in this case a lot of people are

-------------
Little harsh really KB isn't that bad

U12978, flame thrower of an article. Loved every word.
No sitting on the fence there by you. 5 stars from me based on passion and conviction.

This was merely me venting my frustrations. I'm sick of reading people try and back up the current administration and slag off those who aren't happy, but they never offer any real argument.

Also, anything that is done that is good for the club, if its done for the wrong reasons, will eventually backfire. I personally think there's not a single thing right with bates running of the club when you rule out the "we're making a profit" argument, since that argument is hollow when you factor in that a club making this much turnover and spending so little on players should be making a much larger profit, but isn't because of loss making businesses that the club is paying to start up.

I should probably add that the aggressive portion is strictly aimed at the "anti-LUST" style bates backers. While I do think it's counterproductive at this time, after all that has happened, to do anything but demand that bates leaves, I cannot in my heart criticise people for continuing to go - it's taken a lot of courage and effort to resist getting a ticket for the Leicester game, but spending that much money on a pointless fixture is just stupidity. I just think it's stupid to believe that the majority of your money is being spent well for the clubs best interests. It's also stupid to believe that the club is being run well when the board make so many obvious errors in customer relations, they seem to be completely clueless on the "making the customer happy" part. Reducing ticket prices would significantly increase crowds to the point where any money lost from a reduced price is made up and then some, but they can't see that. Yet people still think this board is pushing us in the right direction. Nonsense?

You are preaching to the choir mate. I've loathed
Bates since the 80s when he was acting like a plank
while head of Chelsea. I was not happy when he
took over Leeds. Still not. I have weak moments when
I hope he might have some good intent for the team.
But, that has not gone well up to now. Hoping NW
can at least temporarily, help us forget that Bates
is doing what he does best - nothing.

I suppose, it is all down in words on 606, so the Bates haters, or the Bates 'supporters' for want of a better word will either be right or wrong..

If we get an article on sky sports, or in the media saying KB has been arrested for fraud etc, then I'll be the first one to hold my hands up and say 'I got it wrong, I beleived he was good for the club, but was wrong'

If however, Leeds get to the premiership at the end of next season, after seeing NW backed well, and policy on tickets are a little more fairer, LUFC still making profits, running in the black etc, and we become a prem club with no debt and a decent team with long copntracts, I hope some of you will do the same, 'I got it wrong, he is good for the club'

would that be a fair assesment? or resolution? I'm a bit sick of debating it, as I'm sure many others are, but would it be fair to suggest this?
------------------------------------------

I'll hold my hands up and admit fault, knowing full well that I will never have to. Promotion to the Premier League followed by fairer prices... can't make this stuff up. What planet are you on? As soon as we get in to the Premier League, prices will go up even further. I'd expect Arsenal style ticket prices for Stoke style football. I'd also expect most of the Sky money will be spent on other projects to "increase revenue streams". I don't see how there's going to be a decent team with long contracts when the contracts as they are are always so short. If the club is being run so brilliantly why do we constantly have to sell our best players just to be able to afford to "compete" if you can call it that? The only reason the wage bill is as "high" as it is and "over budget" is because of players being sold. It's still a mid table wage bill, from a club that has a higher turnover than half the clubs on parachute payments.

Seriously, on what grounds do you think any of your suggestions will actually happen? This man has not ONCE followed through on a single promise he's made that benefits the fans. It's all just scr*wing us over at every opportunity, with a Premier League spot and even more money rolling into the coffers, he'll just do it even more.

The only evidence to suggest that he's doing anything well for the club is that we're no longer in debt and we're making profit, which can be expected of a club that charges extortionate rates and spends very little of the money coming in. Oh, and what he's told you. "He's good for the club, he told me so himself". Seriously, do you just pull this stuff out of your *** Tuscany?

Jonty, yes he must be if he said he doesn't claim a salary... but please can you answer my question too?

Is there anything he can do for you to conceed that he can run our football club?

LIW you too?
--------------------------------------------

This is your argument? THIS is your argument? Seriously? "Can bates hypothetically do something to change your mind on him?" Yes, of course he can, he can accept that these non-footballing ventures aren't working, they are just wasting time and money, he can start spending money brought in by football fans into a football team, he can treat the fans with respect, giving reasonable ticket prices for what we're getting, he can stop selling our best players and using the excuse "it was good business and now it can go in Colin's Cauldron", he can stop trying to fob us off with the argument that we need to sell players to compete in bringing new ones in. But not one of these things is ever going to happen. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that he's ever going to change his policies on running the club, which are nothing short of terrible. Rule number 1, don't alienate a large proportion of your matchgoing fanbase - something he's failed to achieve.

U12978, flame thrower of an article. Loved every word.
No sitting on the fence there by you. 5 stars from me based on passion and conviction.
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And the only arguments I can get back are "well just because he lied a few times about important issues regarding large amounts of clubs money doesn't mean he's always lying" and "if it did turn out to all be alright, would you hypothetically concede you were wrong about him?".

This is the stuff people who back bates resort to? Seriously?

The Pavilion, despite not having any staff on the books, still managed to report a loss in the accounts. Which means when you put any staff that are paid to work there into the equation, the loss is even bigger.

Are you a trained monkey, Tuscany?

I noticed the fact that the pavillion has no employees, which means Leeds are 'lending' them resources which is even more drain on the football side of the business.

I think you;re being a bit harsh on Tuscany though, he's just not as passionate about the welfare of the club as some of us (didn't mean that in a derogatory way Tuscany if that makes sense).

Not being passionate about the welfare of the club is one thing. Not being passionate because you genuinely believe bates is doing well for the club, that's just stupidity.

I'm one of Bates biggest critics and I know where you're coming from, but I just think Tuscany sees it from a slightly different angle than we do.

Yes, an angle that doesn't make any sense at all. There's no logic for it. I wouldn't mind so much if there was any logical argument for doing so but there's isn't. Every possible reason can be debunked with little to no effort.

Reducing ticket prices would significantly increase crowds to the point where any money lost from a reduced price is made up and then some, but they can't see that.
....
What's a fair price then???

Based on the quality of the squad, I'd say 5 quid.

I take it that includes £4 for the programme.

Jonty, and a pie and pea supper.

still not sure that squad is worth it batty!

I tend to agree Jonty. Maybe a half time pint
thrown in to offset the dross?