comment by Metro_1 (U6770) posted 11 hours, 13 minutes ago
Bleeding el Arouna don't milk it

It can't by the way

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I never said it needed to melt it did I

Jalisco Red (etc.)

There are obviously lots of loons around. But the existence of loons spouting rubbish doesn't prove that members of the ruling classes are never involved in self-interested secret activities.

Anyone hear the phone call on Talksport the other day? It was an old call but a good one. Some bright spark rang into a scottish phone-in saying that it was criminal that Antti Niemi was not being selected to play for Scotland.

When the phone-in host told him that Niemi was Finnish he said 'He isn't, he's only 28!!'

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

As for the motives... I won't bother writing them out as it's vast but here's a decent starting point. http://www.markcurtis.info/

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Berba

I did read the parts on Afghanistan and tbf there were some intersting insight I wasn;t aware of

Two things I would say though

1. It still doesn;t cover what the US or the UK stand to gain from it considering we've probably spent 3 or 4 hundred billion to date there. How could we possibly hope to recoup all of that and considering the loss of life too, I still can't figure out any reason we would go there to do what we did unless it was indeed to stop the country training terrorists to attack the West.

2. The article reaks of one-sided opinion from someone that seemingly has a clear agenda. For example, when a sentence starts with 'Yes, more children now go to school but....' It makes it fairly clear to me that the author has absolutely no interest in anything that's good that has come of it.

To me, it's just another example of an individual feeding exactly what he wants into the public domain as opposed to actually giving the full picture

The guy closes one of the articles saying what needs to be done, with one specific statement saying that 'the secret torturing' needs to be stopped. I would guess that the 'secret torturing' that went on in that country was on a whole different level before we landed.

I might be a little idealist but I cannot bring ,myself to belive that The US flew planes into its own building in order to oust the Taliban. Nor can I bring myself to believe that our military have been sent to Afghanistan and Iraq to murder people indiscriminately all in the name of profit

In my opinion, I believe at least some of the reasons our leaders 'started' the two conflicts were honourable reasons which is something you cannot level at terrorist organisations, or the Taliban, who basically just abuse their own religion to commit attrocicities, murder all in the name of their own power and control

comment by Jalisco Red (U4195)
posted 13 hours, 56 minutes ago
Tut tut tut - people can be on both sides of this debate but please don't insult people by suggesting one view suits all

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That's the thing though. There's no one coherent conspiracy in any of these things, just a load of lonely, intellectually malnourished maniacs looking for an argument and contradicting each other in the process.
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Nobody is looking for a 'coherent' conspiracy.

What we do is look at the story that's been offered and decide whether it holds up. To millions - it doesn't

It still doesn;t cover what the US or the UK stand to gain from it

.............

And that, in a nut shell closes the argument, as far as I am concerned.

comment by meltonblue (U10617) posted 18 hours ago
To be fair berbaking, and I do agree with the Names you have listed as being very good, in terms of research I always find it slightly better to read both sides of the argument

I'm not disagreeing with them or you, just that you are not really looking at a broad point of view with those choices.

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Kinda my feeling

Berba's knowledge on the subject is vast tbf albeit a little one-sided in my opinion. He clearly has done his research on FP

What we do is look at the story that's been offered and decide whether it holds up. To millions - it doesn't

...........

To a very small percentage, Metro. Not millions.

And, as we have all seen, none of the conspiracy theories hold up at all. Most of them, like the ones you peddle contain incorrect information, for starters.

"I'm even skimming over his work now and there literally isn't anything opinionated in his work. He uses declassified government files primarily. That's about as unbiased as it gets"

I'm not talking about his sources Berba, as I already said, part of the issue I have with solely looking at Curtis's work is that he didn't have access to people as much as he did those documents.

Regardless of that though, I meant more on the slant he puts on things. Which book were you flicking through? Is there any point in that book that he commended any western foreign policy? As the one I read, there wasn't, only a critique. That isn't to say that he isn't right about a lot of things or whether I agree or disagree with him, purely that he is only looking at it from that perspective.

the conspiracy theorists claim
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So you're grouping people who doubt the official story as one group with one shared view

Tut tut tut - people can be on both sides of this debate but please don't insult people by suggesting one view suits all
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so for the record metro was it flight 77 that hit the pentagon in your view?

Only an idiot accepts the media story. Vidicchin your a Peddler of the norm...ie a dope who thinks his opinion counts. Now red russian has talked sense on here.
Spies ..silent wars...hollocausts..government has been the biggest killer of the last 100-200 years

spies....silent wars, etc also preserve stability and save lives and prevent hollocausts

depends on what you focus on

nothing is all good or bad

Only an idiot accepts the media story. Vidicchin your a Peddler of the norm...ie a dope who thinks his opinion counts.

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You really don't understand me at all.

I don't accept the media story at face value straight away.

I rationalise it first and then accept it, if it is rational.

Same with the conspiracy theories. I examine them and then rationalise them. If they are tinpot, I discard them.

It is very easy to discard the vast majority of the 9/11 theories because they are very easy to debunk.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 31 minutes ago
What we do is look at the story that's been offered and decide whether it holds up. To millions - it doesn't

...........

To a very small percentage, Metro. Not millions.

And, as we have all seen, none of the conspiracy theories hold up at all. Most of them, like the ones you peddle contain incorrect information, for starters.

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It's millions

comment by joely_the_goaly. (U15498)
posted 26 minutes ago
the conspiracy theorists claim
.....

So you're grouping people who doubt the official story as one group with one shared view

Tut tut tut - people can be on both sides of this debate but please don't insult people by suggesting one view suits all
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so for the record metro was it flight 77 that hit the pentagon in your view?
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You're asking me to theorise.

It's the oldest trick in the book. Next thing you'll be putting winks at the end of your comments

It's millions

...............

Prove it.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 55 seconds ago
It's millions

...............

Prove it.
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http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/09/911poll/

so for the record metro was it flight 77 that hit the pentagon in your view?
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You're asking me to theorise.

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Arn't you theorising on everything anyway?

What is your opinion on the flight?

Metro

That isn't proof.

Jesus, you are gullible.

if I remember from the last 9/11 thread, Metros opionion was that it was a missile that hit the pentagon.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584) posted 31 seconds ago
if I remember from the last 9/11 thread, Metros opionion was that it was a missile that hit the pentagon.
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The simple questions to be asked regarding that nonsense is...

Why would the US fire a missile at the pentagon?

Where are the passengers that were booked on the flight?

Macca, they were flown to a deserted airfield and shot remember?

RpV

I just disregarded that nonsense