Tell that to the Afghan women and children and the families of the Soldiers who have been killed helping to liberate them
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Except we know what the Afghans and Iraqi's and every else thinks of us. And it's not what you want to believe. it's been studied plenty of times. As for the 'liberated' Afghan women... That's a bad joke, surely? You might want to listen to the RAWA (Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan) and someone like Malalai Joya.

The reality is, these invasions are out of pure self-interest. Not 'fighting terror' or 'liberating' or 'defending our country'. The exact opposite is true on all counts and is easily verifiable with vast sums of rich documentary evidence that spans several decades. It's not up for debate at all.

True heroism is the refusal to participate or obey power. So people like Bradley Manning, Eric Snowden or, even, Muhammed Ali. They refused to participate in crimes/chose to expose crimes at great personal cost.

We live in a very militaristic society. I'm skipping a lot of detail but ultimately this militarism stifles and weeds out critical thinking.

Surely you can see that the Iraqi people are hardly better off from the war but the powers that be who started the war are certainly richer.
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I only know one Iraqi personally. he says it's worse now, but long term he thinks it will be better

I literally have nothing else to go on.

comment by FSB (U11355)
posted 37 seconds ago
Robb, do China's imperial aspirations, or lack of, matter? The US has always claimed to be vehemently anti-imperialist (some left wing authors disagree) but they have still been the sole superpower for the last 20 years and like it or not what goes on in the world is largely influenced by Washington

China may not want to build an empire but they will have political and economic power and will inevitably have a huge influence over us. As someone said earlier they won't call in their debts from the US because it would be catastrophic for the the world economy. They have the power to do it, but fortunately, at the moment they don't have the desire.
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It's hard to say. I know the Chinese are busy building hospitals and football stadiums in Africa in return for UN votes so they will probably always be 'winning' UN power struggles but no-one knows what they'll want.

Most probably they want economical superiority. As an Australian I can say that back home it really pays to learn Mandarin and Cantonese and i'm sure we'll all have to learn that as kids in school in the future to do business with them.

China are building an empire. It's just that they aren't using military force to do it.

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 28 seconds ago
China are building an empire. It's just that they aren't using military force to do it.
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Do you think that makes them better or worse than the Empire's that came before them?

comment by Robb : Yep, it's him. (U9808)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 28 seconds ago
China are building an empire. It's just that they aren't using military force to do it.
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Do you think that makes them better or worse than the Empire's that came before them?
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We'll find out long term.

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 44 seconds ago
China are building an empire. It's just that they aren't using military force to do it.
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The military force is pretty much the insurance policy.

Berba

I personally think you just want to believe what you want to believe

You seriosuly think that the Afghan women and children are not now happier under the current regime as opposed to the oppresive Taliban regime, irrespective of what the coalition's motives were?

Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't the Afghan people happy to be shown how to protect themselves from the Taliban regaining control? Arn't the majority of military operations in Afganistan not being predominatly carried out by the Afghans themselves?

Incidentally, what do you think were the US's motives were in Afganistan?

Robb, they are moving rapidly towards a position where they will be economically dominant and will be able to dictate much of what goes on in the world economically. The US have been doing this for the last 20 years. It doesn't make them good or bad, they're simply looking after the own interests. We're relatively happy because US interests align quite closely with ours. Will China's?

Admin

Rob, it's an interesting one. On the face of it it would appear to be better, as military invasion is explicit in the damage it causes, whereas with China - as Jay says - we'll find out long term.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

So people like Bradley Manning, Eric Snowden or, even, Muhammed Ali. They refused to participate in crimes/chose to expose crimes at great personal cost
====

I cannot but take exception to that. I firmly believe that Bradley manning got exactly what he deserved. he broke the law

Incidentally, what do you think were the US's motives were in Afganistan?
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Many fold. To protect the poppy fields to be used for the West. 10 years ago Tony Blair said that part of the reason for going in was to destroy the fields but this week apparently there are more than before.

Also, more importantly the US wanted to have military bases that encircle Iran for a possible invasion one day.

comment by Robb : Yep, it's him. (U9808)
posted 22 seconds ago
Incidentally, what do you think were the US's motives were in Afganistan?
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Many fold. To protect the poppy fields to be used for the West. 10 years ago Tony Blair said that part of the reason for going in was to destroy the fields but this week apparently there are more than before.

Also, more importantly the US wanted to have military bases that encircle Iran for a possible invasion one day.


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This.

comment by joely_the_goaly. (U15498)
posted 1 minute ago
So people like Bradley Manning, Eric Snowden or, even, Muhammed Ali. They refused to participate in crimes/chose to expose crimes at great personal cost
====

I cannot but take exception to that. I firmly believe that Bradley manning got exactly what he deserved. he broke the law
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So did Snowden, but he's often not considered as bad because what he released was 'in the public interest'

comment by UnitedRedMacca-The Original Rooney Fanboy (U2024)
posted 4 minutes ago
Berba

I personally think you just want to believe what you want to believe

You seriosuly think that the Afghan women and children are not now happier under the current regime as opposed to the oppresive Taliban regime, irrespective of what the coalition's motives were?

Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't the Afghan people happy to be shown how to protect themselves from the Taliban regaining control? Arn't the majority of military operations in Afganistan not being predominatly carried out by the Afghans themselves?

Incidentally, what do you think were the US's motives were in Afganistan?
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For me only being fed the UK news I wouldn't proclaim to know one way or another. The only counter news we really hear is from the odd outburst from the Afghan president regrading our involvement. I suspect rightly or wrongly the UK and the US put a degree of spin on things.

Heading home

Laters guys

PS. Spare a thought for a mate of mine. He's an electrician at Camp Kandahar. The poor guy has to walk past the 'Poo Pond' to get his grub

He has a strong London accent and the Yanks have nicknamed him Joey Essex and they have even written that name on his room door.

comment by Cal - I wish I could play like Kent Carlevi (U11544)
posted 2 minutes ago
Wish they would stop nicking all the rare earths.
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I have been reading about this of late. Apparently the rare earths are used in a lot of renewables(motors and the like). A lot of companies are moving to non rare earths that only slightly under-perform but are vastly cheaper.

FSB

I hope so! Like I said, in Australia the Chinese influence is very strong. Apart from the usual complaints about 'they're taking over' and all that narrow minded nonsense, it's pretty much the same kind of thing but with the chinese language being more and more necessary.

I'd be fine with my kids one day going to school and learning Cantonese or Mandarin rather than a silly language like French.

For me only being fed the UK news I wouldn't proclaim to know one way or another. The only counter news we really hear is from the odd outburst from the Afghan president regrading our involvement.
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I actually find that rather odd considering he wouldn't be president now if it wasn't for the coalition

Him spouting about our involvement might just be propeganda he's spreading to his own people who probably think our work is done now

Right, I really gotta go. ciao

Laters Macca. I hope you accept that VC was going off at me for reasons you could see were silly

comment by Robb : Yep, it's him. (U9808)
posted 4 seconds ago
FSB

I hope so! Like I said, in Australia the Chinese influence is very strong. Apart from the usual complaints about 'they're taking over' and all that narrow minded nonsense, it's pretty much the same kind of thing but with the chinese language being more and more necessary.

I'd be fine with my kids one day going to school and learning Cantonese or Mandarin rather than a silly language like French.
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I think English will still be the dominant language as it is very prevalently taught in china, particularly in business schools. Though no harm in learning Mandarin I suppose.

Mandarin, or Cantonese are going to be almost essential in the coming years.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

I'd be fine with my kids one day going to school and learning Cantonese or Mandarin rather than a silly language like French.
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