"If indeed those planes were swapped over then like I said, they could have been taken to a deserted runway (i'm sure there are plenty in the US) and killed. That kind of thing probably isn't as horrible idea to the people who organised this thing as it is to you and I."

I honestly find people that say things like that incredibly disrespectful, I really struggle with it.

terrorists are different, theirs is based on a massive religion that the the majority have been brought up believing.

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Islam in incidental. An innocent tool being used by cold blooded murderers as an excuse to commit attrocity

Islam is a peaceful religion

comment by Kung Fu Cantona (U18082)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robb : Yep, it's him. (U9808) posted 2 minutes ago
Macca

Who said anything about the passengers being in on it?
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Robb

I'm talking about the planes the tin foil hat brigade say didn't exist.

The penatgon plane and the one with the lets roll heroes on it

If they did not exist, what has happened to the passengers?

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this is what could have happened.

Im not saying i believe that version of the story because I don't but the government already had plans for something similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

This is also proof that the USA do think about carry out these operations.
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I think the nature of goverment there will always be whitepapers and proposals about false flag events outcomes etc etc. There are probably some very smart people paid to dream up such stuff. It doesn't make it likely.

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only this operation was signed off at ALL levels. Only the president vetoing the decision to go through with it.

It's like John Kerry signing off on such an operation today, isn't that scary?
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My brother served on a Nuke Sub during the cold war. They used to get told to prepare for launch, not even knowing if it was a drill or not. It was only when they were one button press from launching the nuke, they would then phone to get the OK to launch or cancel from the UK and finally the US. If either party did not respond they were to launch.

Doesnt mean it was gonna happen. The US always called it off in time.

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This is very different mate, drills and potential world war 3 situations are different to clandestine attacks used to sway public opinion.

And America doesn't always stop it at the last moment.

They used such techniques in the1st Gulf War and Vietnam. Read about it.

These are the reason why the CIA exist. To use underhand, illegal and clandestine tactics.

comment by UnitedRedMacca-The Original Rooney Fanboy (U2024)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Robb : Yep, it's him. (U9808) posted 3 minutes ago
Macca

If indeed those planes were swapped over then like I said, they could have been taken to a deserted runway (i'm sure there are plenty in the US) and killed. That kind of thing probably isn't as horrible idea to the people who organised this thing as it is to you and I.
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Don't be ridiculous Robb

That would mean silencing an entire airport, for decades

What about all the phone calls the people of the 4th plane made to their loved ones? Were the passengers being held at gunpoint in a remote hanger being told to tell their families they were actually on the plane?

Come off it

Like I have said, they simply had no reason to fake two further planes to succeed in their ultimate aim. I feel the twin towers spread all over Manhatton was probably enough.
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How do you mean silencing an entire airport? All that needed to happen was for the plane to be taken off as normal and then that plane to be taken to a deserted airfield and be destroyed. The only people that would have needed to know in that particular operation would have been the pilots and the hit squad at the runway.

As for the calls, maybe they were being held at gunpoint and been told to do that. There was one instance (which is fully documented) that a guy who called his mum called her by her full name from United 93. Weird.

Back then all these cellphone calls would have been a statistical fluke to have reached their destinations from midair. Even now could you get on a plane and call someone from your mobile phone?

im gonna have to have an early night tonight, im not used to having this much adult conversation in one day

I honestly find people that say things like that incredibly disrespectful.

............

To be fair Melton, I find them incredibly stupid.

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 16 seconds ago
"If indeed those planes were swapped over then like I said, they could have been taken to a deserted runway (i'm sure there are plenty in the US) and killed. That kind of thing probably isn't as horrible idea to the people who organised this thing as it is to you and I."

I honestly find people that say things like that incredibly disrespectful, I really struggle with it.
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I kinda struggle too when the fantastical theories get pushed to the extreme bordering on bad taste when you think it was peoples family members and loved ones that died and the proposition is they were executed by their own government. I suppose that is the far end of the conspiracy spectrum and isnt the intent though.

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
"If indeed those planes were swapped over then like I said, they could have been taken to a deserted runway (i'm sure there are plenty in the US) and killed. That kind of thing probably isn't as horrible idea to the people who organised this thing as it is to you and I."

I honestly find people that say things like that incredibly disrespectful, I really struggle with it.
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Surely you can accept that even if 9/11 was 100% the way the powers that be tell it, you can also accept that the US Government are extremely capable of far more evil acts?

You say it's disrespectful of me to put out a theory like that but imagine if what I say is right? What the people that may have done this would have done goes way beyond disrespectful and rely on the type of comments you just made to act as an emotional smokescreen designed to stop people looking for the truth in these types of situations.

These are the reason why the CIA exist. To use underhand, illegal and clandestine tactics.

.............

Can you give me some exampmles of any they have used that can come even remotely close to the grand scale 9/11 would have involved?

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

"How do you mean silencing an entire airport? All that needed to happen was for the plane to be taken off as normal and then that plane to be taken to a deserted airfield and be destroyed. The only people that would have needed to know in that particular operation would have been the pilots and the hit squad at the runway".

No, it isn't. What you would need is an exact replica of the same plane to take off from the same airports to take off and then be destroyed, at the same time the other "empty" planes would need to be flown (undetected in US airspace) into the world trade centre.

Whilst the real passengers are being flown to their death elsewhere, they will need to be held at gunpoint and lie to their loved ones about who is onboard and what message is being relayed, as well as fake messages sent to air traffic control.

Somehow between those two things happening, someone would also have to get some of the debris of personal effects from the first plane and then plant that around the foot of the WTC in between impact and it falling for it to be found by civilians.

That's before we even get onto the black box recording and what would need to happen there.

We are not just in the realms of fantasy now, we are in mind boggling, ill-directed stupidity.

this debate started off about JFK

I kinda struggle too when the fantastical theories get pushed to the extreme bordering on bad taste when you think it was peoples family members and loved ones that died and the proposition is they were executed by their own government. I suppose that is the far end of the conspiracy spectrum and isnt the intent though.
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Fair enough Admin but the very thing I and a lot of people are arguing about on this thread is that just because someone is from the same country as their government it doesn't make them immune from the evil actions of the few people in positions of absolute power.

You only have to look at the rich/poor divide of the US to see just what the powers that be think of the little people.

I'm sorry if the theories I put forward are offending people but you're on a debate about conspiracies and unfortunately these kind of theories are widely felt amongst some people. If anything if these theories are true it's more about getting justice for them rather than trying to use their deaths to paint some sort of lurid horror story.

comment by Kung Fu Cantona (U18082)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
For a buildiong that size, yes you would.

Especially for a controlled explosion.

I wonder why none of the witnesses claimed to hear a bloody loud set of bangs that go with explosives being let off?

Silent explosion possibly?

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They did actually.

just do a quick search on youtube.

Fireman heard explosives going off and so did the janitor who was all over the media swearing blind he heard explosives going off.
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Those explosions were the result of compressed air being forced out as each concrete floor dropped to the one below.

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 45 seconds ago
"How do you mean silencing an entire airport? All that needed to happen was for the plane to be taken off as normal and then that plane to be taken to a deserted airfield and be destroyed. The only people that would have needed to know in that particular operation would have been the pilots and the hit squad at the runway".

No, it isn't. What you would need is an exact replica of the same plane to take off from the same airports to take off and then be destroyed, at the same time the other "empty" planes would need to be flown (undetected in US airspace) into the world trade centre.

Whilst the real passengers are being flown to their death elsewhere, they will need to be held at gunpoint and lie to their loved ones about who is onboard and what message is being relayed, as well as fake messages sent to air traffic control.

Somehow between those two things happening, someone would also have to get some of the debris of personal effects from the first plane and then plant that around the foot of the WTC in between impact and it falling for it to be found by civilians.

That's before we even get onto the black box recording and what would need to happen there.

We are not just in the realms of fantasy now, we are in mind boggling, ill-directed stupidity.

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Not at all Melton. This type of thing would require a lot of planning but everything you mention is very possible.

This isn't some schoolyard scheme. This would be done by people who stand to make trillions and controlling the world.

Like I said, it's just a theory but you don't have to take it so personally that you insult people for having that theory. You just need to keep an open mind and discuss it. Fair enough you may never fully believe it and of course that's your right but please save us from the moral objections because they're completely out of place on a debate like this.

Ron there are loads of people that believe in chem trails, nibiru, the hollow earth, lizard illuminati

It doesn't increase the probability of them though.

"Surely you can accept that even if 9/11 was 100% the way the powers that be tell it, you can also accept that the US Government are extremely capable of far more evil acts? "

That's not the point Robb, as Admin intoned, to me, you are starting to implicate victims and their families in what you are saying. Having read all of the 9/11 commission and listened to some of those phone calls, that is a step too far for me.

Admin

Yeah, of course

I just like to keep an open mind and listen to all the evidence which I can bet a lot of people on here haven't even done. The evidence doesn't 100% make me believe in the probability of a cover up but it does point towards some things that are very odd and worth a look.

How do you mean silencing an entire airport? All that needed to happen was for the plane to be taken off as normal and then that plane to be taken to a deserted airfield and be destroyed. The only people that would have needed to know in that particular operation would have been the pilots and the hit squad at the runway.
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What?

You've watched Con Air too many times if you think they could do that with 2 jets and get away with it

You still haven't addressed the main question

The twin towers were spread over Manhatton

Why bother faking a plane just crashing in a field, having murdered the passengers, and yet fake another flying imto the Pentagon, again, having previously murdered the passengers when the Twin Towers was more than enough to achieve their 'aim';?

Where are the planes? Were the bodies returned to their respective families? How would they make them look like they'd been in a plane crash? Burn them? Then what? 400 burnt bodies transported from a remote airport back to their families somehow via the 'crashsite'? Think of all the emergency services staff that would have to be hushed? Where there no firemen at the scene? Considering the firemen's lives lost in the twin towers would even one of them allow themselves to be hushed?

It isn't just that it was unecessary, it also increases the chance of ultimately being exposed immeasurably

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 16 seconds ago
"Surely you can accept that even if 9/11 was 100% the way the powers that be tell it, you can also accept that the US Government are extremely capable of far more evil acts? "

That's not the point Robb, as Admin intoned, to me, you are starting to implicate victims and their families in what you are saying. Having read all of the 9/11 commission and listened to some of those phone calls, that is a step too far for me.
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Robb to take it to the extreme, at its most crass you could imply that people willingly volunteered to go on the plane. A very easy to postulate but patently absurd and disrespectful to the families to do such as thing. That isn't to say there wont be some theorist that have rationalised such theories.

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
"Surely you can accept that even if 9/11 was 100% the way the powers that be tell it, you can also accept that the US Government are extremely capable of far more evil acts? "

That's not the point Robb, as Admin intoned, to me, you are starting to implicate victims and their families in what you are saying. Having read all of the 9/11 commission and listened to some of those phone calls, that is a step too far for me.
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Fair enough. Again, you obviously have a limit as to what you will believe and have decided based on what sources you have come across as to where to stick your flag.

But all i'm saying is that in history there have been cover ups where innocent people have died and if no-one stood up to the lie at the risk of upsetting their families then the truth never would have come out.

Robb, no it is not plausible and yes, in all honesty, I am angry when people come out with stuff like that. You are not just talking about a government cover up then, you are implicating far more people and what they saw and testified about what happened that day.

I have absolutely no problem with people arguing about the circumstances that led to 9/11 happening, nothing wrong with that at all. I do draw the line at people questioning what happened on the planes though as the evidence is all there. I know it is after having to painfully read through all of it and listen to a lot of it.

It is not just the morality, it is the genuine stupidity and lack of research from people that say things like that having read a "9/11 What REALLY happened" on the national enquirer website that gets to me.

Moral objections are not out of place whatsover when you say something like that when everything, and I mean everything, points to the contrary. I would say the exact same to a holocaust sympathiser and I see no difference, it is moronic dangerous b0llocks.

We are not just in the realms of fantasy now, we are in mind boggling, ill-directed stupidity.
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Amen to that

Robb to take it to the extreme, at its most crass you could imply that people willingly volunteered to go on the plane. A very easy to postulate but patently absurd and disrespectful to the families to do such as thing. That isn't to say there wont be some theorist that have rationalised such theories.

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Of course and that's where the powers that be get away with these kind of things. Because its never a case of one person telling a lie and one person telling the truth.

It's far more layered and the crazier elements (of which some of the theories i've presented on here - remember, just theories) can dilute the argument/truth.

For example, like Red Russian said earlier, maybe the way everything happened happened but the US government let it happen by just not arresting anyone and letting the situation unfold as it did then taking advantage later on.

Then someone comes along with the theory you've just mentioned and it gets people so het up and angry that suddenly ALL forms of conspiracy are thrown out the window and no-one searches for the truth.

comment by meltonblue (U10617) posted 50 seconds ago
Robb, no it is not plausible and yes, in all honesty, I am angry when people come out with stuff like that.
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There a City fan on this site (from memory it mught me Paul Power or kanikaze, that had a work colleague on one of he two fake planes

What the conspiract theorists say is that there wasn;t actually a 3rd and 4th plane whatsoever by the way