It's quite interesting to read these kind of debates. Most of the time it just comes down to people being more annoyed they can't use certain words to describe people.
I genuinely don't think there is a single racist person on here but a lot of people on this site (and every other site i've been on) just feel like society is forcing them to be politically correct and making them conform to the latest way of describing people.
I wonder how people would react if they were allowed to say what they want? Would the world be a more racist place or less racist?
Not my particular view as I know why certain words have been banned and/or frowned upon but i'm playing devils advocate to the ones on here (and other sites) who don't appear to be racist but seem like they're bound by society's rules more than they feel comfortable with.
If anyone can, Emre Can... (U3979)
I'd encourage you to take a trip to South Africa sometime, for a more enhanced example of the one we're discussing.
You read the history, see the issue, and then come back and try to tell me that it's as simple as 'the best man gets the job'.
The UK, thankfully, is ahead of SA in that sense.
But the problem is of the same ilk, and to ignore it completely really is naïve, if not ignorant.
if board members has racist views and thus why they won't employ black managers, how will the rooney rule help? A black guy has to be interviewed? but they needn't be given the job.
For me affirmative action or it's cousins are dangerous, it could get results, but it's inherently racist, could lower standards, and breeds resentment (because it's racist).
In this case you shouldn't fight racism with racism. Look at the states, is that race obsessed culture what we want/need over here?
ps im black, but not looking for a job in football. Does my opinion still count???
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
If anyone can, Emre Can... (U3979)
I'd encourage you to take a trip to South Africa sometime, for a more enhanced example of the one we're discussing.
You read the history, see the issue, and then come back and try to tell me that it's as simple as 'the best man gets the job'.
The UK, thankfully, is ahead of SA in that sense.
But the problem is of the same ilk, and to ignore it completely really is naïve, if not ignorant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
was also going to include SA, as an example where affirmative action goes wrong!
How many Asians have represented England at international level?
I genuinely don't think there is a single racist person on here
---
They would all come out the woodwork if they knew it wouldn't result in a ban.
The reason it'd result in a ban is because our culture had evolved to the point where it's not acceptable to treat someone differently because of the colour of their skin. Political correctness is just part of that.
You only have to watch a game in Russia or Serbia to see just how far we've come. This progress should not be halted by closet racists and xenophobes in our game.
IMO
Who here actually knows anyone who's racist?
Bãles (U3582)
You seem like a pr!ck to me
------------------------------------------
Are you one of those chaps who decided to turn the anti semitic abuse directed at your club into a badge of honour by chanting 'Y ids'?
You catchin' mah drift.........or am I being obtuse?
comment by Alsace Hop Farmer (U20041)
posted 1 minute ago
Bãles (U3582)
You seem like a pr!ck to me
------------------------------------------
Are you one of those chaps who decided to turn the anti semitic abuse directed at your club into a badge of honour by chanting 'Y ids'?
You catchin' mah drift.........or am I being obtuse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not obtuse at all mate, very obviously a pr!ck.
Do you sing the word loud and proud?
comment by Alsace Hop Farmer (U20041)
posted 1 minute ago
Do you sing the word loud and proud?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wear a name badge and I'll give it a go
Who here actually knows anyone who's racist?
----
John Terry?
Or did you mean personally?
I heard Macca is massively in favour of the Rooney rule.
What's wrong with coloured? Is it really any wore than saying black?
**
is feckin racist you idiot
How many black players were playing 20/30 years ago? Managers tend to be older and most of them would have been involved in football back then, I exprct in the next 20odd years for there to be more black players.
I think that there certainly needs to be an examination as to why, when there are quite a high proportion of black players playing in this country, a far smaller number make the transition to being a manager than you might expect. Obviously there are a lot of factors that would have to be analysed in order to come to a satisfactory conclusion as to why so few seem to make the transition.
My personal hunch is that due to the "old boys club" nature of football management in this country it is far easier for already established managers, regardless of success or failure, to pick up a job very soon after being out of work. Given that many of these managers became established in more predudiced times when discrimination based on colour was probably more prevelant, if not necessarily explicit, there is less representation of minorities than should be expected, and we may not see any natural changes until we see a generation of manager retiring.
Yes that's the thing.
You then have to consider how many of those players have gone into coaching and management.
If black players were the minority in that era, and then consider than the minority of those players will go into coaching, it's no surprise there are so few black coaches and managers.
There's a real issue in this country as it is in terms of the number of coaches. We are lagging far behind compared to our continental neighbours.
I don't see how this Rooney rule will make any difference to the amount of black managers because John Barnes will still be a shiiiit manager and won't get the job of someone else better.
It's good to see that people are acknowledging the issue. I just think the issues run deeper than black managers not making shortlists.
African nations should implement the Rooney rule to stop them hiring Europeans
This is all about the majority piping up looking after number one.
How long before ince goes to an interview doesn't he the job and then complains that he feels he interviewed well etc.
I don't wish any ill on him or Roberts for example but they are both attention seekers. And I don't know why ince is comaining, he's had a fair few jobs and been largely poor. He's lucky to still get interviews.
I know plenty of people who say racist things in a jokey way though it doesn't make them a racist. The problem is that the idiots who took racism too far put everyone on guard. Let me explain because I know how that sounds. Race on its own shouldn't be this serious thing that we've made it out to be. I really don't believe it's worth noting in people. I judge people on their general attitude towards other people and life. However throughout history, not even that far back, ignorant idiots went and took their misplaced hatred to stupid levels. Now people are on guard about anything race related.
If I want to tease my mate about his weight I do it and he can tease me about my ugliness. If I want to tease my mate about his general stupidity he can judge me about my accident on the school bus. If I want to make a joke about a racial stereotype towards my cousin the whole room goes hush and gives disapproving glances.
I'm of an minority(not really here) and I can easily joke about my races stereotypes but even then, when joking about my own race, I will receive disapproving looks. Humour is dying because people are all too willing to play the victim card.
Now I'm not saying real racism doesn't exist and that I'm fine with it if it does. But people do need to lighten up because freedom of speech (at least here) is something that should be cherished.
Race isn't the be all and end all of a person. People shouldn't treat any statement made towards race so sensitively.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The number of black players in England and Wales in 2014 is irrelevant.
Sign in if you want to comment
Black Managers
Page 3 of 7
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posted on 1/10/14
It's quite interesting to read these kind of debates. Most of the time it just comes down to people being more annoyed they can't use certain words to describe people.
I genuinely don't think there is a single racist person on here but a lot of people on this site (and every other site i've been on) just feel like society is forcing them to be politically correct and making them conform to the latest way of describing people.
I wonder how people would react if they were allowed to say what they want? Would the world be a more racist place or less racist?
Not my particular view as I know why certain words have been banned and/or frowned upon but i'm playing devils advocate to the ones on here (and other sites) who don't appear to be racist but seem like they're bound by society's rules more than they feel comfortable with.
posted on 1/10/14
If anyone can, Emre Can... (U3979)
I'd encourage you to take a trip to South Africa sometime, for a more enhanced example of the one we're discussing.
You read the history, see the issue, and then come back and try to tell me that it's as simple as 'the best man gets the job'.
The UK, thankfully, is ahead of SA in that sense.
But the problem is of the same ilk, and to ignore it completely really is naïve, if not ignorant.
posted on 1/10/14
if board members has racist views and thus why they won't employ black managers, how will the rooney rule help? A black guy has to be interviewed? but they needn't be given the job.
For me affirmative action or it's cousins are dangerous, it could get results, but it's inherently racist, could lower standards, and breeds resentment (because it's racist).
In this case you shouldn't fight racism with racism. Look at the states, is that race obsessed culture what we want/need over here?
ps im black, but not looking for a job in football. Does my opinion still count???
posted on 1/10/14
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
If anyone can, Emre Can... (U3979)
I'd encourage you to take a trip to South Africa sometime, for a more enhanced example of the one we're discussing.
You read the history, see the issue, and then come back and try to tell me that it's as simple as 'the best man gets the job'.
The UK, thankfully, is ahead of SA in that sense.
But the problem is of the same ilk, and to ignore it completely really is naïve, if not ignorant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
was also going to include SA, as an example where affirmative action goes wrong!
posted on 1/10/14
How many Asians have represented England at international level?
posted on 1/10/14
I genuinely don't think there is a single racist person on here
---
They would all come out the woodwork if they knew it wouldn't result in a ban.
The reason it'd result in a ban is because our culture had evolved to the point where it's not acceptable to treat someone differently because of the colour of their skin. Political correctness is just part of that.
You only have to watch a game in Russia or Serbia to see just how far we've come. This progress should not be halted by closet racists and xenophobes in our game.
IMO
posted on 1/10/14
Who here actually knows anyone who's racist?
posted on 1/10/14
posted on 1/10/14
Bãles (U3582)
You seem like a pr!ck to me
------------------------------------------
Are you one of those chaps who decided to turn the anti semitic abuse directed at your club into a badge of honour by chanting 'Y ids'?
You catchin' mah drift.........or am I being obtuse?
posted on 1/10/14
posted on 1/10/14
comment by Alsace Hop Farmer (U20041)
posted 1 minute ago
Bãles (U3582)
You seem like a pr!ck to me
------------------------------------------
Are you one of those chaps who decided to turn the anti semitic abuse directed at your club into a badge of honour by chanting 'Y ids'?
You catchin' mah drift.........or am I being obtuse?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not obtuse at all mate, very obviously a pr!ck.
posted on 1/10/14
Do you sing the word loud and proud?
posted on 1/10/14
comment by Alsace Hop Farmer (U20041)
posted 1 minute ago
Do you sing the word loud and proud?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wear a name badge and I'll give it a go
posted on 1/10/14
Who here actually knows anyone who's racist?
----
John Terry?
Or did you mean personally?
posted on 1/10/14
I heard Macca is massively in favour of the Rooney rule.
posted on 1/10/14
What's wrong with coloured? Is it really any wore than saying black?
**
is feckin racist you idiot
posted on 1/10/14
How many black players were playing 20/30 years ago? Managers tend to be older and most of them would have been involved in football back then, I exprct in the next 20odd years for there to be more black players.
posted on 1/10/14
I think that there certainly needs to be an examination as to why, when there are quite a high proportion of black players playing in this country, a far smaller number make the transition to being a manager than you might expect. Obviously there are a lot of factors that would have to be analysed in order to come to a satisfactory conclusion as to why so few seem to make the transition.
My personal hunch is that due to the "old boys club" nature of football management in this country it is far easier for already established managers, regardless of success or failure, to pick up a job very soon after being out of work. Given that many of these managers became established in more predudiced times when discrimination based on colour was probably more prevelant, if not necessarily explicit, there is less representation of minorities than should be expected, and we may not see any natural changes until we see a generation of manager retiring.
posted on 1/10/14
Yes that's the thing.
You then have to consider how many of those players have gone into coaching and management.
If black players were the minority in that era, and then consider than the minority of those players will go into coaching, it's no surprise there are so few black coaches and managers.
There's a real issue in this country as it is in terms of the number of coaches. We are lagging far behind compared to our continental neighbours.
I don't see how this Rooney rule will make any difference to the amount of black managers because John Barnes will still be a shiiiit manager and won't get the job of someone else better.
It's good to see that people are acknowledging the issue. I just think the issues run deeper than black managers not making shortlists.
posted on 1/10/14
African nations should implement the Rooney rule to stop them hiring Europeans
posted on 1/10/14
This is all about the majority piping up looking after number one.
How long before ince goes to an interview doesn't he the job and then complains that he feels he interviewed well etc.
I don't wish any ill on him or Roberts for example but they are both attention seekers. And I don't know why ince is comaining, he's had a fair few jobs and been largely poor. He's lucky to still get interviews.
posted on 1/10/14
I know plenty of people who say racist things in a jokey way though it doesn't make them a racist. The problem is that the idiots who took racism too far put everyone on guard. Let me explain because I know how that sounds. Race on its own shouldn't be this serious thing that we've made it out to be. I really don't believe it's worth noting in people. I judge people on their general attitude towards other people and life. However throughout history, not even that far back, ignorant idiots went and took their misplaced hatred to stupid levels. Now people are on guard about anything race related.
If I want to tease my mate about his weight I do it and he can tease me about my ugliness. If I want to tease my mate about his general stupidity he can judge me about my accident on the school bus. If I want to make a joke about a racial stereotype towards my cousin the whole room goes hush and gives disapproving glances.
I'm of an minority(not really here) and I can easily joke about my races stereotypes but even then, when joking about my own race, I will receive disapproving looks. Humour is dying because people are all too willing to play the victim card.
Now I'm not saying real racism doesn't exist and that I'm fine with it if it does. But people do need to lighten up because freedom of speech (at least here) is something that should be cherished.
Race isn't the be all and end all of a person. People shouldn't treat any statement made towards race so sensitively.
posted on 1/10/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/10/14
The number of black players in England and Wales in 2014 is irrelevant.
posted on 1/10/14
Why?
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