5 in 10 is good. However, as we aren't in the CL his PL goal tally of 2 in 5, actually 2 in 7 if you include the games he played for us, isn't very good either.
The issue here is that Welbeck obviously wanted reassurances over his long term future at the club. He didn't get them because he doesn't have one. I'd have kept him as a squad striker for the reasons you've stated. But the player didn't want that so we cannot complain - unless you want Welbeck to be the main man at United.
And I don't, because he's average.
Sorry it's 2 in 7 for Arsenal and 2 in 9 in the premier league.
roonited
It's not just about standards though is it, he's a local lad who loved the club and gave 100% every game. Will he be a world beater, probably not but I still think he could have been a very valuable member of our squad if used correctly but he's gone now so no point arguing about it now. He is still only 23.
I still believe he will turn out good for Arsenal, Wenger has a good record in making strikers.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 41 seconds ago
5 in 10 is good. However, as we aren't in the CL his PL goal tally of 2 in 5, actually 2 in 7 if you include the games he played for us, isn't very good either.
The issue here is that Welbeck obviously wanted reassurances over his long term future at the club. He didn't get them because he doesn't have one. I'd have kept him as a squad striker for the reasons you've stated. But the player didn't want that so we cannot complain - unless you want Welbeck to be the main man at United.
And I don't, because he's average.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, Welbeck isn't the finished article and is back at stage 1 in regards to his striking development.
He's worked hard but needs a rest as he's played every game. He could have scored a couple of goals on Saturday but good blocks got in the way and one ended up as a goal anyway.
The time to judge Welbeck is next season after a full season under Wengers tutelage. I think he'll still score 20 goals this season though.
Though, actually, Wenger's record with strikers at Arsenal is pretty average.
If you look at how many strikers he's had. People forget all the shiiit ones and just remember Henry and RVP being transformed by Wenger.
Exactly, he's not the finished article and won't ever be at United which is currently what we need.
So it's not that big a loss. As a squad player I think we've lost something as he offers something different but he didn't want that so we cannot begrudge him a move.
I'd be surprised if he gets 20, certainly not in the league.
Depends on how far Arsenal go in the FA Cup because he's got a maximum of five games left in the CL.
And let's also consider he won't play every game when Giroud is back.
Reckon he'll get about 15 which for a team like Arsenal isn't that good.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 seconds ago
roonited
It's not just about standards though is it, he's a local lad who loved the club and gave 100% every game. Will he be a world beater, probably not but I still think he could have been a very valuable member of our squad if used correctly but he's gone now so no point arguing about it now. He is still only 23.
I still believe he will turn out good for Arsenal, Wenger has a good record in making strikers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
of course its about standards and the standards set in the last 3 decades at utd are beyond dannys abiltys. Local lad or not hes not a utd player
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 56 seconds ago
Exactly, he's not the finished article and won't ever be at United which is currently what we need.
So it's not that big a loss. As a squad player I think we've lost something as he offers something different but he didn't want that so we cannot begrudge him a move.
I'd be surprised if he gets 20, certainly not in the league.
Depends on how far Arsenal go in the FA Cup because he's got a maximum of five games left in the CL.
And let's also consider he won't play every game when Giroud is back.
Reckon he'll get about 15 which for a team like Arsenal isn't that good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think come May that a compelling argument for us keeping Welbeck and selling RVP could be made.
IMO i'd have been very happy with Rooney, Falcao, Welbeck and Wilson.
Let's face it, Welbeck can't have been any worse than RVP's been this season?
Perhaps, Rob, I have reservations over RVP as well.
But Welbeck just doesn't have a long term future at United as a first team player because he's not good enough. That's why he wanted to leave. With that in mind it's no great loss.
It's all well and good saying we should have kept him as a squad player but he didn't want that so there's not much else can be done.
There's also a case to be made that he won't have a long term future at Arsenal as the first choice striker (not just this season, where Giroud will play plenty) if Arsenal are intent on competing for top honours.
Welbeck isn't going to be a striker that will win them titles and the CL. In that respect it gives us an advantage if they persist with the three average strikers they currently have.
350+ comments, hook, line and sinker.
Touché Robb, touché.
Spot on with this OP Robb. Thought very much the same. Bad reffering decisions and great goal keeping have papered over the cracks. But in saying that, I have more confidence this season than last that we are heading in a more positive direction.
How is your GK saving shots, luck? Its like saying that when your strikers score, thats luck too!
Ridiculous article
Yep, we are lucky we have a top class goalkeeper.
Just like City are lucky they have Toure, silva, Kompany, Zabaleta, Aguero and Hart. Without them they'd not be where they are, lucky so and so's
comment by RBW - The future is Orange (U2335)
posted 3 minutes ago
How is your GK saving shots, luck? Its like saying that when your strikers score, thats luck too!
Ridiculous article
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RBW, surely you can see that if we're relying on reffing decisions and the keeper making several world class saves that maybe we're not quite as good as some are thinking.
I've not once said we haven't improved at all. Just that (like Rock Steady says) those things have papered over a lot of cracks. Had the ref done his job on Sunday we'd have been smashed by City because our defence is awful this season. That same defence was awful against Everton and without DDG making stunning saves we'd have lost that too.
I know DDG making saves isn't 'luck' but when you need the keeper to be making tons of saves to keep us in home games then it's not quite the example of a team who are improving as much as some say.
There's nothing spot on about this article at all. You can't just talk about our luck in the last three games then negate the bad luck in the previous seven.
Robb we should of had 3 points against Albion if it wasn't for a bad decision from the ref.
If the red had of booked Clichy and Zabaleta who knows what would have happened?
Or what if Chelsea were booked for their cynical fouls stopping us counter in the first half, they'd of had 3/4 players sent off. Ivanovic should have been of 20 minutes earlier anyway, 7 fouls was it? Most of which were on di Maria in good positions.
Just because we have been a little lucky with some of the big decisions, I'd argue we hve been unlucky with a lot of small decisions whichc change the shape of the game.
comment by Juan Matador (U17834)
posted 41 seconds ago
There's nothing spot on about this article at all. You can't just talk about our luck in the last three games then negate the bad luck in the previous seven.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can when people signify these 3 games as signs we are improving loads. Without that luck and those saves we would all be saying different things about how we're playing at the moment.
How hard is it to accept that yes, we have improved a bit but in these 3 big games we've had a lot of luck and DDG has kept us in games rather than as a team we've improved a lot?
you keep going on about getting smashed by city, so i want to know what about the two balls from Di Maria that should have resulted in goals, the save made by hart from Di Maria and the fact Rooney didnt shoot after his run when he had the chance.
do these chances created by us get wiped out because they dont fit your agenda??
yes city could have had a few, but so could we had we taken our chances.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
yes it does.
you keep bleating on about the chances city missed, what about the ones we missed.
yes city missed chances which you are more than happy to point out.
but you seem to forget the ones we missed.
Because of this at no point should their have been a absolute battering.
as Busby pointed out, against chelsea Ivanovic should have gone LONG before he did, how he didnt get booked for the foul on Januzaj right on the edge of the box out wide is beyond me.
Robb even if we'd have lost and not had this luck we'd have still shown signs of improvement. Out attacking has become much more creative as opposed to cross after cross. We've created several decent opportunities with clever passing and I haven't seem that for a while as a United fan.
comment by Juan Matador (U17834)
posted 2 minutes ago
Robb even if we'd have lost and not had this luck we'd have still shown signs of improvement. Out attacking has become much more creative as opposed to cross after cross. We've created several decent opportunities with clever passing and I haven't seem that for a while as a United fan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree we're playing better. Absolutely. Fellaini is proof of that. All i'm saying though is that lots of things have papered over the cracks too. I don't see anyone mentioning them.
comment by Dunc, pleasurer of women, envy of men (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
yes it does.
you keep bleating on about the chances city missed, what about the ones we missed.
yes city missed chances which you are more than happy to point out.
but you seem to forget the ones we missed.
Because of this at no point should their have been a absolute battering.
as Busby pointed out, against chelsea Ivanovic should have gone LONG before he did, how he didnt get booked for the foul on Januzaj right on the edge of the box out wide is beyond me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you talking about City missing chances? I only said that in response to you saying we missed chances. That's not what this article is about.
It's about how MASSIVELY lucky we were from the ref. 3 CLEAR penalty shouts all turned down. Surely you can agree that we were lucky with them all? Surely you can admit that Rojo was lucky to be on the pitch after that chance just before half time? If he'd rightly been sent off would we have lost 1-0? As if.
The ref bottled it because he'd just sent off Smalling. He'd never send 2 players off in 5 mins in such a big game.
Don't get me wrong, i'm glad he didn't send Rojo off but to say that that decision didn't change everything in regards to a potential smashing is wrong.
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When will our luck run out?
Page 15 of 16
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posted on 4/11/14
5 in 10 is good. However, as we aren't in the CL his PL goal tally of 2 in 5, actually 2 in 7 if you include the games he played for us, isn't very good either.
The issue here is that Welbeck obviously wanted reassurances over his long term future at the club. He didn't get them because he doesn't have one. I'd have kept him as a squad striker for the reasons you've stated. But the player didn't want that so we cannot complain - unless you want Welbeck to be the main man at United.
And I don't, because he's average.
posted on 4/11/14
Sorry it's 2 in 7 for Arsenal and 2 in 9 in the premier league.
posted on 4/11/14
roonited
It's not just about standards though is it, he's a local lad who loved the club and gave 100% every game. Will he be a world beater, probably not but I still think he could have been a very valuable member of our squad if used correctly but he's gone now so no point arguing about it now. He is still only 23.
I still believe he will turn out good for Arsenal, Wenger has a good record in making strikers.
posted on 4/11/14
*had
posted on 4/11/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 41 seconds ago
5 in 10 is good. However, as we aren't in the CL his PL goal tally of 2 in 5, actually 2 in 7 if you include the games he played for us, isn't very good either.
The issue here is that Welbeck obviously wanted reassurances over his long term future at the club. He didn't get them because he doesn't have one. I'd have kept him as a squad striker for the reasons you've stated. But the player didn't want that so we cannot complain - unless you want Welbeck to be the main man at United.
And I don't, because he's average.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, Welbeck isn't the finished article and is back at stage 1 in regards to his striking development.
He's worked hard but needs a rest as he's played every game. He could have scored a couple of goals on Saturday but good blocks got in the way and one ended up as a goal anyway.
The time to judge Welbeck is next season after a full season under Wengers tutelage. I think he'll still score 20 goals this season though.
posted on 4/11/14
Though, actually, Wenger's record with strikers at Arsenal is pretty average.
If you look at how many strikers he's had. People forget all the shiiit ones and just remember Henry and RVP being transformed by Wenger.
posted on 4/11/14
Exactly, he's not the finished article and won't ever be at United which is currently what we need.
So it's not that big a loss. As a squad player I think we've lost something as he offers something different but he didn't want that so we cannot begrudge him a move.
I'd be surprised if he gets 20, certainly not in the league.
Depends on how far Arsenal go in the FA Cup because he's got a maximum of five games left in the CL.
And let's also consider he won't play every game when Giroud is back.
Reckon he'll get about 15 which for a team like Arsenal isn't that good.
posted on 4/11/14
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 seconds ago
roonited
It's not just about standards though is it, he's a local lad who loved the club and gave 100% every game. Will he be a world beater, probably not but I still think he could have been a very valuable member of our squad if used correctly but he's gone now so no point arguing about it now. He is still only 23.
I still believe he will turn out good for Arsenal, Wenger has a good record in making strikers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
of course its about standards and the standards set in the last 3 decades at utd are beyond dannys abiltys. Local lad or not hes not a utd player
posted on 4/11/14
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 56 seconds ago
Exactly, he's not the finished article and won't ever be at United which is currently what we need.
So it's not that big a loss. As a squad player I think we've lost something as he offers something different but he didn't want that so we cannot begrudge him a move.
I'd be surprised if he gets 20, certainly not in the league.
Depends on how far Arsenal go in the FA Cup because he's got a maximum of five games left in the CL.
And let's also consider he won't play every game when Giroud is back.
Reckon he'll get about 15 which for a team like Arsenal isn't that good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think come May that a compelling argument for us keeping Welbeck and selling RVP could be made.
IMO i'd have been very happy with Rooney, Falcao, Welbeck and Wilson.
Let's face it, Welbeck can't have been any worse than RVP's been this season?
posted on 4/11/14
Perhaps, Rob, I have reservations over RVP as well.
But Welbeck just doesn't have a long term future at United as a first team player because he's not good enough. That's why he wanted to leave. With that in mind it's no great loss.
It's all well and good saying we should have kept him as a squad player but he didn't want that so there's not much else can be done.
There's also a case to be made that he won't have a long term future at Arsenal as the first choice striker (not just this season, where Giroud will play plenty) if Arsenal are intent on competing for top honours.
Welbeck isn't going to be a striker that will win them titles and the CL. In that respect it gives us an advantage if they persist with the three average strikers they currently have.
posted on 4/11/14
350+ comments, hook, line and sinker.
Touché Robb, touché.
posted on 4/11/14
Spot on with this OP Robb. Thought very much the same. Bad reffering decisions and great goal keeping have papered over the cracks. But in saying that, I have more confidence this season than last that we are heading in a more positive direction.
posted on 4/11/14
How is your GK saving shots, luck? Its like saying that when your strikers score, thats luck too!
Ridiculous article
posted on 4/11/14
Yep, we are lucky we have a top class goalkeeper.
Just like City are lucky they have Toure, silva, Kompany, Zabaleta, Aguero and Hart. Without them they'd not be where they are, lucky so and so's
posted on 4/11/14
comment by RBW - The future is Orange (U2335)
posted 3 minutes ago
How is your GK saving shots, luck? Its like saying that when your strikers score, thats luck too!
Ridiculous article
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RBW, surely you can see that if we're relying on reffing decisions and the keeper making several world class saves that maybe we're not quite as good as some are thinking.
I've not once said we haven't improved at all. Just that (like Rock Steady says) those things have papered over a lot of cracks. Had the ref done his job on Sunday we'd have been smashed by City because our defence is awful this season. That same defence was awful against Everton and without DDG making stunning saves we'd have lost that too.
I know DDG making saves isn't 'luck' but when you need the keeper to be making tons of saves to keep us in home games then it's not quite the example of a team who are improving as much as some say.
posted on 4/11/14
There's nothing spot on about this article at all. You can't just talk about our luck in the last three games then negate the bad luck in the previous seven.
posted on 4/11/14
Robb we should of had 3 points against Albion if it wasn't for a bad decision from the ref.
If the red had of booked Clichy and Zabaleta who knows what would have happened?
Or what if Chelsea were booked for their cynical fouls stopping us counter in the first half, they'd of had 3/4 players sent off. Ivanovic should have been of 20 minutes earlier anyway, 7 fouls was it? Most of which were on di Maria in good positions.
Just because we have been a little lucky with some of the big decisions, I'd argue we hve been unlucky with a lot of small decisions whichc change the shape of the game.
posted on 4/11/14
comment by Juan Matador (U17834)
posted 41 seconds ago
There's nothing spot on about this article at all. You can't just talk about our luck in the last three games then negate the bad luck in the previous seven.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can when people signify these 3 games as signs we are improving loads. Without that luck and those saves we would all be saying different things about how we're playing at the moment.
How hard is it to accept that yes, we have improved a bit but in these 3 big games we've had a lot of luck and DDG has kept us in games rather than as a team we've improved a lot?
posted on 4/11/14
you keep going on about getting smashed by city, so i want to know what about the two balls from Di Maria that should have resulted in goals, the save made by hart from Di Maria and the fact Rooney didnt shoot after his run when he had the chance.
do these chances created by us get wiped out because they dont fit your agenda??
yes city could have had a few, but so could we had we taken our chances.
posted on 4/11/14
Agree with that, BB.
posted on 4/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/11/14
yes it does.
you keep bleating on about the chances city missed, what about the ones we missed.
yes city missed chances which you are more than happy to point out.
but you seem to forget the ones we missed.
Because of this at no point should their have been a absolute battering.
as Busby pointed out, against chelsea Ivanovic should have gone LONG before he did, how he didnt get booked for the foul on Januzaj right on the edge of the box out wide is beyond me.
posted on 4/11/14
Robb even if we'd have lost and not had this luck we'd have still shown signs of improvement. Out attacking has become much more creative as opposed to cross after cross. We've created several decent opportunities with clever passing and I haven't seem that for a while as a United fan.
posted on 4/11/14
comment by Juan Matador (U17834)
posted 2 minutes ago
Robb even if we'd have lost and not had this luck we'd have still shown signs of improvement. Out attacking has become much more creative as opposed to cross after cross. We've created several decent opportunities with clever passing and I haven't seem that for a while as a United fan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree we're playing better. Absolutely. Fellaini is proof of that. All i'm saying though is that lots of things have papered over the cracks too. I don't see anyone mentioning them.
posted on 4/11/14
comment by Dunc, pleasurer of women, envy of men (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
yes it does.
you keep bleating on about the chances city missed, what about the ones we missed.
yes city missed chances which you are more than happy to point out.
but you seem to forget the ones we missed.
Because of this at no point should their have been a absolute battering.
as Busby pointed out, against chelsea Ivanovic should have gone LONG before he did, how he didnt get booked for the foul on Januzaj right on the edge of the box out wide is beyond me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you talking about City missing chances? I only said that in response to you saying we missed chances. That's not what this article is about.
It's about how MASSIVELY lucky we were from the ref. 3 CLEAR penalty shouts all turned down. Surely you can agree that we were lucky with them all? Surely you can admit that Rojo was lucky to be on the pitch after that chance just before half time? If he'd rightly been sent off would we have lost 1-0? As if.
The ref bottled it because he'd just sent off Smalling. He'd never send 2 players off in 5 mins in such a big game.
Don't get me wrong, i'm glad he didn't send Rojo off but to say that that decision didn't change everything in regards to a potential smashing is wrong.
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