they had personal loans they used to buy the club and ended up financing/refinancing at very high rates (partly because they were desperate, partly because of the credit crunch at the time)
So they took the entire transfer budget as well as a few quid more to make these interest payments and avoid personally defaulting.
we went into 'negative net spend' because of their personal mistakes outside the club and started sliding. players wanted out. morale went in the toilet. etc.
late 2008 was when it started going tiits up for them (and us by default)
The fact of the matter is, Liverpool have spent vast amounts of money and you are making excuses for massively underachieving. Yes, you should be expecting to finish higher than fifth.
TKT, cheers thought it was that.
Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it obvious? He only once spent 20 million on a player meaning he barley ever bought at the top end of the market.
...................
I don't think you now who he bought. I suggest you read the link attached.
I wish Catherine Bach was 25 again. And into me. And wearing Daisy Duke shorts.
kneerash
Torres, Aquilani, Johnson, Mascherano and Keane were all around the 20 million mark, or close to it.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 9 minutes ago
Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it obvious? He only once spent 20 million on a player meaning he barley ever bought at the top end of the market.
...................
I don't think you now who he bought. I suggest you read the link attached.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do know and yes some of them players were close to it but his most expensive signing was Torres at 20 million.
One 20 million pound player ever and he was arguably his best signing, like I said I wish he'd bought less players and bought a few more players from the top of the market.
One 20 million pound player ever and he was arguably his best signing, like I said I wish he'd bought less players and bought a few more players from the top of the market.
..............
This may well have been his problem.
Rafa bought a heck of a lot of dross.
Torres was viewed as a big risk and one of few times Rafa was actually allowed to pursue higher priced players
More often than not he was denied his first choices and forced to pick from 2nd and 3rd choices. Even for medium priced players
Dani Alves for £12mil was deemed too risky and expensive.
I agree it was a problem, but if you're pointing the finger at Rafa you're pointing it in the wrong direction.
He bought over 60 players or something and five or six were over 10 million
I'm not going into the exact details but you get my point he spent too much time buying and selling cheap players and for me that's why we never challenged enough for the title under rafa
I'd also say it's because Rafa struggles with consistency.
I remember writing an article years ago on old 606 that showed apart from his final season at Liverpool, Rafa averaged £20M net spend a season which was only 2nd to Chelsea in the PL. Yea the yanks were bad owners but Benitez wasted money on a lot of players.
Anyway back to an earlier point, yes we do make up the numbers in Europe every year and our CL record is embarrassing but the fact we are in the CL every year is one of the main reasons we can attract better players than Liverpool and are financially miles ahead of them, too.
Yea Liverpool have won it five times but I think the way Suarez, Alonso and Reina have attempted to engineer moves to Arsenal, and Alexis opted for Arsenal over Liverpool shows that history doesn't really matter to players. What they care about is ambition and a big pay cheque.
If Liverpool were making up the numbers in Europe every season at our own expense, I doubt both clubs would be where they are at the moment.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'd also say it's because Rafa struggles with consistency.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he did like his rotation
I agree it was a problem, but if you're pointing the finger at Rafa you're pointing it in the wrong direction.
................
I would usually hold the manager accountable. I have always held SAF accountable for his duds, as well as praise him for his genius signings.
What we saw from some Liverpool fans back a while, and Dazza will back this up, is that they gave Rafa the credit for the good signings and blamed Parry (I think it was0 for the bad ones.
What I don't get with Rafa's fans is that they miss the point that he didn't HAVE to buy a load of £6m players.
He still signed 60 odd players.
He could have waited for the right ones, saved his money, use some youth, whatever. He didn't HAVE to go and buy a load of dross under £10m just because he wasn't given access loads of £20m players.
We had a huge wage bill in his era, so the money was there to pay wages.
If he didn't buy so many £3-8m mistakes, maybe he could have got more £20m players?
so what would you have done righteous?
buy no one?
and you have to be on the windup to quote '60 players'
that included dozens of reserves / kids as he inherited a youth system in shambles
he bought duds he wanted. so do all managers. Like every manager he made his fair share of mistakes.
but the lions share of signings he made were from the bargain bin because he was only allowed to buy there in most instances, not that he wanted to be shopping there.
but the lions share of signings he made were from the bargain bin because he was only allowed to buy there in most instances
............
I don't buy that one Kaisers. His purchase show that he was allowed to buy from the higher end of the market as well.
i didn't say never
but as others have pointed out it was rare
I would usually hold the manager accountable. I have always held SAF accountable for his duds, as
well as praise him for his genius signings.
What we saw from some Liverpool fans back a while, and Dazza will back this up, is that they gave Rafa the credit for the good signings and blamed Parry (I think it was0 for the bad ones.
****
I think this is absolute tripe, with all due respect and sorry to add it's from the usual suspects again.
Sheriif waffling on with his normal garbage. Arsenal are minuscule on the european stage, so he starts throwing his normal insults when he gets taken to task. he really is a feckwit.
Mamba
On the BBC 606 this was what quite a few of your fans came up with in defence of Rafa.
Rafa was responsible for the good signings Parry was responsible for the bad ones.
It was that kind of reasoning where I first came across the phrase 'scouse logic'.
This is the same Rafa who tried to shift out Alonso to fund a move for Barry. Can't understand why people can't just admit he was shoddy in the transfer market.
Even now you could look at the money he has spent at NapolI and wonder why they have gone backwards since he has joined them.
Many scousers are blinded when it comes to Rafa.
I think some just can't accept criticism of him because of the CL win.
It is a bit weird.
He's a good manager, but he spent enough money with us to have made a better fist of the PL at times.
The season we came 2nd wasn't even our best squad under him. We had dross like Ngog and El Zhar getting regular appearances.
We could have done better in the league on 06/07 and 07/08 IMO.
I think he produced a lot from his first two seasons, but after that I don't think he got the most out of what he had.
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Should we expect higher than 5th
Page 6 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 8/4/15
they had personal loans they used to buy the club and ended up financing/refinancing at very high rates (partly because they were desperate, partly because of the credit crunch at the time)
So they took the entire transfer budget as well as a few quid more to make these interest payments and avoid personally defaulting.
we went into 'negative net spend' because of their personal mistakes outside the club and started sliding. players wanted out. morale went in the toilet. etc.
late 2008 was when it started going tiits up for them (and us by default)
posted on 8/4/15
The fact of the matter is, Liverpool have spent vast amounts of money and you are making excuses for massively underachieving. Yes, you should be expecting to finish higher than fifth.
posted on 8/4/15
TKT, cheers thought it was that.
posted on 8/4/15
Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it obvious? He only once spent 20 million on a player meaning he barley ever bought at the top end of the market.
...................
I don't think you now who he bought. I suggest you read the link attached.
posted on 8/4/15
I wish Catherine Bach was 25 again. And into me. And wearing Daisy Duke shorts.
posted on 8/4/15
kneerash
Torres, Aquilani, Johnson, Mascherano and Keane were all around the 20 million mark, or close to it.
posted on 8/4/15
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 9 minutes ago
Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it obvious? He only once spent 20 million on a player meaning he barley ever bought at the top end of the market.
...................
I don't think you now who he bought. I suggest you read the link attached.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do know and yes some of them players were close to it but his most expensive signing was Torres at 20 million.
One 20 million pound player ever and he was arguably his best signing, like I said I wish he'd bought less players and bought a few more players from the top of the market.
posted on 8/4/15
One 20 million pound player ever and he was arguably his best signing, like I said I wish he'd bought less players and bought a few more players from the top of the market.
..............
This may well have been his problem.
Rafa bought a heck of a lot of dross.
posted on 8/4/15
Torres was viewed as a big risk and one of few times Rafa was actually allowed to pursue higher priced players
More often than not he was denied his first choices and forced to pick from 2nd and 3rd choices. Even for medium priced players
Dani Alves for £12mil was deemed too risky and expensive.
I agree it was a problem, but if you're pointing the finger at Rafa you're pointing it in the wrong direction.
posted on 8/4/15
He bought over 60 players or something and five or six were over 10 million
I'm not going into the exact details but you get my point he spent too much time buying and selling cheap players and for me that's why we never challenged enough for the title under rafa
posted on 8/4/15
I'd also say it's because Rafa struggles with consistency.
posted on 8/4/15
I remember writing an article years ago on old 606 that showed apart from his final season at Liverpool, Rafa averaged £20M net spend a season which was only 2nd to Chelsea in the PL. Yea the yanks were bad owners but Benitez wasted money on a lot of players.
Anyway back to an earlier point, yes we do make up the numbers in Europe every year and our CL record is embarrassing but the fact we are in the CL every year is one of the main reasons we can attract better players than Liverpool and are financially miles ahead of them, too.
Yea Liverpool have won it five times but I think the way Suarez, Alonso and Reina have attempted to engineer moves to Arsenal, and Alexis opted for Arsenal over Liverpool shows that history doesn't really matter to players. What they care about is ambition and a big pay cheque.
If Liverpool were making up the numbers in Europe every season at our own expense, I doubt both clubs would be where they are at the moment.
posted on 8/4/15
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'd also say it's because Rafa struggles with consistency.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he did like his rotation
posted on 8/4/15
I agree it was a problem, but if you're pointing the finger at Rafa you're pointing it in the wrong direction.
................
I would usually hold the manager accountable. I have always held SAF accountable for his duds, as well as praise him for his genius signings.
What we saw from some Liverpool fans back a while, and Dazza will back this up, is that they gave Rafa the credit for the good signings and blamed Parry (I think it was0 for the bad ones.
posted on 8/4/15
What I don't get with Rafa's fans is that they miss the point that he didn't HAVE to buy a load of £6m players.
He still signed 60 odd players.
He could have waited for the right ones, saved his money, use some youth, whatever. He didn't HAVE to go and buy a load of dross under £10m just because he wasn't given access loads of £20m players.
We had a huge wage bill in his era, so the money was there to pay wages.
If he didn't buy so many £3-8m mistakes, maybe he could have got more £20m players?
posted on 8/4/15
so what would you have done righteous?
buy no one?
and you have to be on the windup to quote '60 players'
that included dozens of reserves / kids as he inherited a youth system in shambles
he bought duds he wanted. so do all managers. Like every manager he made his fair share of mistakes.
but the lions share of signings he made were from the bargain bin because he was only allowed to buy there in most instances, not that he wanted to be shopping there.
posted on 8/4/15
but the lions share of signings he made were from the bargain bin because he was only allowed to buy there in most instances
............
I don't buy that one Kaisers. His purchase show that he was allowed to buy from the higher end of the market as well.
posted on 8/4/15
i didn't say never
but as others have pointed out it was rare
posted on 8/4/15
Yep I remember it, VC.
posted on 8/4/15
I would usually hold the manager accountable. I have always held SAF accountable for his duds, as
well as praise him for his genius signings.
What we saw from some Liverpool fans back a while, and Dazza will back this up, is that they gave Rafa the credit for the good signings and blamed Parry (I think it was0 for the bad ones.
****
I think this is absolute tripe, with all due respect and sorry to add it's from the usual suspects again.
posted on 8/4/15
Sheriif waffling on with his normal garbage. Arsenal are minuscule on the european stage, so he starts throwing his normal insults when he gets taken to task. he really is a feckwit.
posted on 8/4/15
Mamba
On the BBC 606 this was what quite a few of your fans came up with in defence of Rafa.
Rafa was responsible for the good signings Parry was responsible for the bad ones.
It was that kind of reasoning where I first came across the phrase 'scouse logic'.
posted on 9/4/15
This is the same Rafa who tried to shift out Alonso to fund a move for Barry. Can't understand why people can't just admit he was shoddy in the transfer market.
Even now you could look at the money he has spent at NapolI and wonder why they have gone backwards since he has joined them.
posted on 9/4/15
Many scousers are blinded when it comes to Rafa.
posted on 9/4/15
I think some just can't accept criticism of him because of the CL win.
It is a bit weird.
He's a good manager, but he spent enough money with us to have made a better fist of the PL at times.
The season we came 2nd wasn't even our best squad under him. We had dross like Ngog and El Zhar getting regular appearances.
We could have done better in the league on 06/07 and 07/08 IMO.
I think he produced a lot from his first two seasons, but after that I don't think he got the most out of what he had.
Page 6 of 7
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