comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 1 week, 6 days ago
comment by 19th title coming soon. (U12879)
posted 2 minutes ago
simple facts:

only months ago. david Cameron was insistent that unless his renegotiations with Europe led to significant reform, he would have no hesitation in recommending the uk leaving the eu.

at that time, his reasoning was that the freedom to choose/create our own laws and reject eu laws. to control our own borders, and negotiate our own trade deals would lead to a stronger Britain than remaining in an unreformed eu.

all the negotiation achieved was a brake on the rate of migration allowed from NEW countries entering joining the eu, a piffling change considering how often a new country joins. and a maximum 4 year restriction on the claiming of benefits by migrants, IF we chose to apply such a restriction.
no major reforms.

now, suddenly, leaving the eu would collapse our economy, destroy all our jobs, prevent us trading with Europe completely. it's all bulls|-|it. and it's all completely contradictory to everything he said 6 months ago.


and no one's even mentioned the possibility of us being forced into the TTIP trade deal yet, which risks reducing all consumer rights, reduces employee protections and rights, leaves ALL public services open to privatisation, regardless of government wishes.
and if the government attempts to do anything like increase employee protections, save public services etc, which impinge on any corporations profits (uk OR overseas corporation) the corporations can sue the government for lost profits.
don't say they can't, Canada entered into the same type of deal with the US and have ALREADY been sued.
corbyn has publicly claimed he would veto this deal, but he can't, it's agreed in Europe under QMV rules, there is no veto.


and don't tell us they can't force anything on us, we have the veto.
the options for the veto have been reduced AT EVERY SINGLE treaty negotiation, from the treaty of rome, the following 4 treaties of accession, the treaty of nice, and the treaty of Lisbon.
we lost the right of veto on 43 different areas on the treaty of Lisbon alone.
if we vote to stay in, our veto WILL be negotiated away.
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Veto? If we lose everything and we're worse of, then we come out. That's a pretty good veto. However none of this has actually happened. So probably better to stay in, rather than vote out because of the nasty things we can dream up could happen, especially thinking about all the good things which actually do happen. For example our economy being one of the biggest growers in the world for the last few years, the laws we've got from the EU in regards to the workplace and of course the trade deals.

Maybe we should look at modernising the EU and being a major leader in that, rather than leaving and disrupting the growth we've seen? Again I'm no expert but I think that would be more beneficial to us.
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I agree with you 100%, you're no expert.

If we don't vote out now, we will never get another vote. That's it, over, UK joins Euro within 10 years, no going back, single state. Can you imagine Texas leaving the USA?

As for modernizing the EU, we've been trying for 40 years and have been voted out in every one of the 72 attempts.

Oh well, you can dream.

^

Talk of reform from within is just that. Talk.

We will be led inexorably down the path to federalism and we will be powerless to prevent it.

Economic arguments are fine, but these self-serving pronouncements from vested interests seeking to maintain a status quo that they have done very well out of, thank you.

And btw, 'Austerity' will continue whether we're in or out.