comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
I have no issues with zero hour contracts for those that want them.

What I am against is people being forced into them because there are no alternatives
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Did you read the article?

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No

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/06/15/flexible-friends-why-employers-hire-eastern-european-migrants-in-order-to-grow/

Why do recruiters hire eastern European migrants? The answer is not that they have a better work ethic, writes Heather Rolfe. The employers surveyed by the NIESR say they are seeking flexibility and want to recruit people on temporary and zero-hour contracts, which British workers are often unwilling or unable to accept. But this flexibility enables businesses to grow and prosper in a way that would otherwise be impossible...........

It is a blog and caveated with the age old, it is her view;

This bit is interesting though;

"Employers need low skilled workers as much as they need higher level skills. For this reason, as our report concludes, ending free movement and restricting low skilled immigration is likely to damage business and threaten jobs in some of our key sectors."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/migrant-workers-bring-improvements-to-british-business-performance-and-productivity-says-new-study

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/406760/bis-15-153-impacts-of-migrant-workers-on-uk-business.pdf


http://www.cipd.co.uk/pm/peoplemanagement/b/weblog/archive/2014/11/24/employers-hire-migrants-to-fill-uk-skills-gap-finds-bcc.aspx

"Almost half of UK businesses have turned to migrant workers as they struggle to find local talent, a report from British Chamber of Commerce (BCC) has found.

Staff from overseas are also said to have a more positive work ethic, have little or no time off sick, and pick up new skills quickly, according to the 2,885 survey respondents across the UK.

Results of the BCC’s 2014 Workforce Survey showed that 45 per cent of UK firms hire migrants from within and outside the EU. Twelve per cent of businesses said EU migrants made up more than 10 per cent of their workforce, while 4 per cent said non-EU migrants accounted for more than 10 per cent of staff.

John Longworth, director general of BCC, said despite the ongoing concern of high levels of unemployment in the UK, employers “continue to rely on migrant workers, because they can’t find enough suitable talent locally”.

“Nearly half of businesses are hiring migrant workers, as they believe that they are more suited to roles than UK workers, have a more positive work ethic and better experience and qualifications,” he told The Guardian."

http://www.cityam.com/232654/uk-immigration-migration-advisory-committee-says-employers-need-to-pay-1000-annual-tax-for-each-foreign-worker

Yep. But that is assuming the zero hours situation stays the same too I imagine.

Which it will do all the time there are people willing to take them.

It does seem all a bit 'race to the bottom', no?

You could caveate the statements above with the fact businesses like cheaper labour and the prevalence of zero hours contracts...of course they will champion it

Anyone seen this racial incident in Plymouth yesterday? Shed of a polish family deliberately burnt down.

https://twitter.com/jakubkrupa/status/751073919940124672

comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 6 minutes ago
You could caveate the statements above with the fact businesses like cheaper labour and the prevalence of zero hours contracts...of course they will champion it
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Agreed, so why is the immigrant the problem and not the corporations.

See what I keep saying? Yes, I want more control of our borders but why do corporations get a free pass?

This is what I do not understand

Whether european workers are better at unskilled jobs or not, employers not hiring British workers creates a direct cost to the taxpayer which is never factored into this "net benefit" often quoted.

The other solutions are long term, too hard, or deeped unpalatable.

To be honest, it does not affect me. It probably helps me if anything, as shiny things end up cheaper to buy.

It does not mean it is right.

It does not mean I think a Tory govt will cap unskilled migration either.

I do however like the ability to choose a government around these issues. With full migration control, this situation can be managed cohesively - numbers, skills, areas needed and wages

How can you achieve full migration control and access to the single market?

How is that achievable?

Would it not have been better to work with the EU to revise this arrangement?

How would 1 country force its will on the other 27?

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 19 seconds ago
Would it not have been better to work with the EU to revise this arrangement?

How would 1 country force its will on the other 27?

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Wasn't this the renegotiation? They didn't want to change it.

So, you work with partners and change it. We got a lot of concessions from them.

No single currency
No Bailouts etc.

Working with countries to achieve policy change is diplomacy 101.

We have adopted the throw the baby out with the bath water approach and will now have no say or influence and still have to abide by it to trade in the single market.

That's incredibly daft on our part.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 6 minutes ago
You could caveate the statements above with the fact businesses like cheaper labour and the prevalence of zero hours contracts...of course they will champion it
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Agreed, so why is the immigrant the problem and not the corporations.

See what I keep saying? Yes, I want more control of our borders but why do corporations get a free pass?

This is what I do not understand
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Immigrants per se are not the problem. They work hard, they do shoit jobs. We know this. Unfettered unskilled immigration is the problem.

Business does what is best for them. They are in competition, so they are going to use all the tools at their disposal to stay competitive. Zero hours contracts being one. If Company A can keep costs down by employing people on these, a similar Company B will struggle survive without also doing so.

Short of banning them altogether - which will hurt many businesses and employees who rely on it - the only way to minimise them is to control the numbers coming in

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
Would it not have been better to work with the EU to revise this arrangement?

How would 1 country force its will on the other 27?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no appetite to change it from the EU though. We know this.

Terrible news from dallas

Agreed, so why is the immigrant the problem and not the corporations.

See what I keep saying? Yes, I want more control of our borders but why do corporations get a free pass?

This is what I do not understand

--------------------------
'yeah, but them immigrants though - Farage said so..'

This is precisely the deceit that the leave campaign have managed to accomplish.

Taking any focus off the massive corporations who do not pay their fair share, who are given labour on massively flexible terms such as zero hour contracts from a British acts of parliament.

How many lines were mentioned by the leave campaign on making big business accountable? zero..

Just warm fuzzy sovereignty to make more laws to crap on the working man. The working man can't eat sovereignty, or use it to keep warm.

comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
Would it not have been better to work with the EU to revise this arrangement?

How would 1 country force its will on the other 27?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no appetite to change it from the EU though. We know this.

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That's not entirely accurate, considering the concerns regarding Syrian refugees, there is an appetite to change it.

Short of banning them altogether - which will hurt many businesses and employees who rely on it - the only way to minimise them is to control the numbers coming in
====================

You realise that Australia with its controls lets in more people than we do right? Same with the US, Canada etc.

What should concern us is why these jobs exist and what prevents Brits from doing them?

Skills, education etc and what are we doing to address that.

I do think the debate is focussing a bit too much on the use of immigrant workers by larger corporations and businesses, it isn't solely about that, it's also about the impact it has on the self employed.

I still fail to see it as particularly an EU issue though.

Indeed melton which is why I am concerned that now in a far more competitive market place, the self employed will be further decimated by countries with the same skills and lower wages.

This is why when these criminals are saying we need to form closer relationships with the common wealth and China, Brits should be very afraid.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 18 seconds ago
Short of banning them altogether - which will hurt many businesses and employees who rely on it - the only way to minimise them is to control the numbers coming in
====================

You realise that Australia with its controls lets in more people than we do right? Same with the US, Canada etc.

What should concern us is why these jobs exist and what prevents Brits from doing them?

Skills, education etc and what are we doing to address that.
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How they define their policy is entirely down to the Aussie government, what relevance is it to Britain?

Why do so many of these jobs exist? Because there is a willing queue of people willing to take them.

How about less immigration, but better conditions for the migrants who do come?

Perhaps if fims could not just import labour freely it may force training programmes on them.

It is not black and white, the immigration debate (no pun intended.....although we are talking shades of white here)

I'm pretty confident a govt could introduce some laws about this, why has this not been done?

I'm also pretty confident a govt can make education accessible to all and not make the average joe start life 45k in debt.

There's money to bomb brown people in the ME but no money to invest in our own?

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
I do think the debate is focussing a bit too much on the use of immigrant workers by larger corporations and businesses, it isn't solely about that, it's also about the impact it has on the self employed.

I still fail to see it as particularly an EU issue though.
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It is just one facet, but all you hear is debates on immigration are too simplistic.

It is particularly relevant to zero hours contracts though, and EU memebership theoretically allows unlimited unskilled labour to enter our job market.

In an economically balanced EU this would not be a problem, but it is far from being that.