I do not think people even realise they are doing it half of the time
I empathise with the Jews.
As a Scotsman we too are mocked for our fiscal conservatism, have our own cockney ryhming slang moniker and have complete cants for neighbours....
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
This is before we even get started on the media... when is the last time the Sun or the Daily Mail tried to stir up stuff regarding Jewish people. Muslims are pretty much the new Jews in regards to Europe, thankfully we are a bit more civilised these days but with these new hate figures like Trump and Farage recording victory's using Muslims as an easy target how much longer?
I do find it a bit shocking that even as the west is Electing Trump in the USA, a man who stirred up hatred against Muslims to help secure the election, people still try to make out that Israel and Jewish people are the ones that are discriminated against in the West.
It is hard to decide whether people are that set in their world view that they actually miss reality completely or if they are just spouting propaganda for the sake of their viewpoint.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning rightwing groups when the article is about the left?
Deflection does not change the subject at hand.
You are very touchy about this arent you?
Who here is an anti Zionist?
If so, could you give me your understanding of what Zionism is?
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 3 hours, 48 minutes ago
I empathise with the Jews.
As a Scotsman we too are mocked for our fiscal conservatism, have our own cockney ryhming slang moniker and have complete cants for neighbours....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice wan
Thought clinton had sizzle and yes way on board, but now the hate for America is back.
Cannot help the bile for jews, yanks, Israel, the British people etc.
Silly sods😃
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 2 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning rightwing groups when the article is about the left?
Deflection does not change the subject at hand.
You are very touchy about this arent you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning Jews when the article is about fascism and the left?
Either we are both incredibly touchy and that is why we haven't religiously stuck to the original topic or the topic evolved somewhat...
Now back to the discussion you seem eager to distract from all of a sudden Muslims are certainly the target group of choice these days. There is anti Semitism but tbh Jewish people don't seem to get it much worse than most other minorities (Muslims excluded) here in Britain anyway, maybe some places on the mainland?
Although tbh even there all the potentially popular racists who win votes seem to hate the Muslims and not mention the Jewish people.... Le Pen, Geert Wilders, Trump, Farage.
Where are these leading left wing politicians promoting anti Semitism in the same way?!
Racism just doesn't seem to be a vote winner with the left wing parties.
Israel as a county gets a lot of criticism but so does America and so did Apartheid South Africa.
So either these mostly white left wingers are racist against White and Jewish people...
Or they just particularly don't like occupation and killing of innocent people being supported by their country.
I can obviously only guess everyone else's reasoning but the latter just seems a lot more likely...
Isis hang forty people from lamposts in Mosul and shoot a guy for using his mobile, but yea , let us only slate Israel and brexit or American voters rejecting Clinton.
Sizzle #ignoring islamist extremism
Eu dicktator Junker lecturing Pres elect after telling uk what to think and do .......what a patronizing, arrogant pwick.
Fek Eu😀
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Always entertaining debating with TBAB, regardless of what you write the response can just be Muslim group X killed people...
When you haven't got a cohesive argument soundbites are a good choice for real politicians it just doesn't really work so well on a forum....
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 9 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 2 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning rightwing groups when the article is about the left?
Deflection does not change the subject at hand.
You are very touchy about this arent you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning Jews when the article is about fascism and the left?
Either we are both incredibly touchy and that is why we haven't religiously stuck to the original topic or the topic evolved somewhat...
Now back to the discussion you seem eager to distract from all of a sudden Muslims are certainly the target group of choice these days. There is anti Semitism but tbh Jewish people don't seem to get it much worse than most other minorities (Muslims excluded) here in Britain anyway, maybe some places on the mainland?
Although tbh even there all the potentially popular racists who win votes seem to hate the Muslims and not mention the Jewish people.... Le Pen, Geert Wilders, Trump, Farage.
Where are these leading left wing politicians promoting anti Semitism in the same way?!
Racism just doesn't seem to be a vote winner with the left wing parties.
Israel as a county gets a lot of criticism but so does America and so did Apartheid South Africa.
So either these mostly white left wingers are racist against White and Jewish people...
Or they just particularly don't like occupation and killing of innocent people being supported by their country.
I can obviously only guess everyone else's reasoning but the latter just seems a lot more likely...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why am I mentioning Jews?
The article is about Fascism and the Left, and the historical bogeyman is the current legitimate enemy of the hard left.
We often see no differentiation between Israel and Jew when they are reproached, despite all Jews not being Israeli, and all Israelis not being Jews. That is where it rears its ugly head from the veneer (by many, not all) of being just against Iraeli policy.
The leftwing anticalitalist movements also have a streak of the Jew hate in there when you dig in (again, not all).
So are Muslims enemy #1 of the right? Well yes, I would say you are correct.
Is there racism there, yes of course there is. The right is not up for debate though, we know the problems that are there.
The further right you go the murkier that becomes though....the Jew can still be the bogeyman there, and the more crossover there is with your anticapitalists.
Interesting article by Rabbi Sacks
http://www.rabbisacks.org/mutating-virus-understanding-antisemitism/
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 12 hours, 44 minutes ago
Who here is an anti Zionist?
If so, could you give me your understanding of what Zionism is?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone?
Here are a couple of articles that appear on that renowned rightwing mouthpiece, The Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/labour-left-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-israel
This one is from an ex advisor to Corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/13/the-lefts-jewish-problem-corbyn-israel-and-antisemitism-dave-rich-review
This one references and reviews a book
Why am I mentioning Jews?
..................................
Either, because as you suggested earlier you are extremely touchy on the subject, or because as subjects generally do on forums, they evolve.
............................................
The article is about Fascism and the Left, and the historical bogeyman is the current legitimate enemy of the hard left.
.........................................
Jews?!
I'd argue Fascism is the enemy of the left, despite left wing views being negative Israeli imperialism many Jewish people are also left wing, in fact I've talking (just online) with many Jewish people who were critical of Israeli policy.
..............................................
We often see no differentiation between Israel and Jew when they are reproached, despite all Jews not being Israeli, and all Israelis not being Jews. That is where it rears its ugly head from the veneer (by many, not all) of being just against Iraeli policy.
.........................................
TBH many just use it as a cheap excuse to defend Israel, there actions are no more acceptable than IS or any of the other bad groups in the Middle East.
There is of course an element of racism present in the Israeli-Palestine situation, if the Palestinians weren't Muslims but were instead white or Christian would Israel get such enthusiastic support?
I think we all know the answer to that....
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/labour-left-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-israel
This one is from an ex advisor to Corbyn
.................................
So he dislike a country that occupies and kills it neighbour whilst forcing its people to live in poverty and that makes him anti semitic?!
Quite frankly its no more racist than all the people on this board who continually condemn the Muslim group IS.
Now both these groups do bad things worthy of criticism, so one might suggest that you can actually criticise them without being racist.
If of course you want to push an agenda and silence criticism you might accuse people of being racist for criticising these groups rather than addressing the bad things they do...
That link is just basically one guy crying about Corbyn and the current labour leadership being very critical of Israel...
Good!
Israel do lots of horrible things, you even admitted in your own post that Israel are no angels.
This idea that Israel can not be criticised is actually the most racist thing of all, can help but feel this wouldn't be the case if it was white people or Christians they were occupying and slaughtering.
Sorry did you even read these links you put up or did you just search for anything and everything and go for the numbers philosophy of more links = more proof?
I am not even sure what you are trying to prove with the book review link... hell I am not even sure what the author is trying to say.... he even starts ranting about the Rothschild's at the end...
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, nobody said it was. The rabbi himself says so in his piece. I am not sure why you want to push this in the direction of people trying to silence criticism of Israel, other than to deflect from what we are discussing.
See how often the words Jew and Israel are interchanged in discusssion. They are not one and the same. There are people who are both, and there are people who are just one of each. There are Israeli Jews critical of Israeli policy.
The danger is when people see no difference between the two.
Do I think Israel are angels or beyond reproach? No. However, there are two sides to a coin and I do not think it is fair to make the criticism so one-sided.
I get it, you want to see the left as angels because you identify with the left. But to deny there is even a smidgen of an anti semitism in certain parts of the left is pretty dangerous. It gives it legitimacy.
Do you identify yourself as an anti Zionist?
What is your definition of Zionism if so
There is of course an element of racism present in the Israeli-Palestine situation, if the Palestinians weren't Muslims but were instead white or Christian would Israel get such enthusiastic support?
I think we all know the answer to that....
=================
Neither are white, or Christian. Very hard to see your point.
On the flipside, if Israel was not a Jewish state would the hard left be as critical of it?
I think we know the answer to this becuase there are plenty of non Jewish states that have worse records than Israel but somehow escape as much scrutiny
I've always assumed Zionism is a nationalist movement wanting a Jewish state for Jewish people.
That within that movement there are varying degrees of nationalistic fervour from benign to extreme.
Happy to be educated if that's wrong.
Sign in if you want to comment
Relationship between Left and Fascism
Page 21 of 45
22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26
posted on 11/11/16
I do not think people even realise they are doing it half of the time
posted on 11/11/16
I empathise with the Jews.
As a Scotsman we too are mocked for our fiscal conservatism, have our own cockney ryhming slang moniker and have complete cants for neighbours....
posted on 11/11/16
posted on 11/11/16
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
posted on 11/11/16
This is before we even get started on the media... when is the last time the Sun or the Daily Mail tried to stir up stuff regarding Jewish people. Muslims are pretty much the new Jews in regards to Europe, thankfully we are a bit more civilised these days but with these new hate figures like Trump and Farage recording victory's using Muslims as an easy target how much longer?
I do find it a bit shocking that even as the west is Electing Trump in the USA, a man who stirred up hatred against Muslims to help secure the election, people still try to make out that Israel and Jewish people are the ones that are discriminated against in the West.
It is hard to decide whether people are that set in their world view that they actually miss reality completely or if they are just spouting propaganda for the sake of their viewpoint.
posted on 11/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 11/11/16
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning rightwing groups when the article is about the left?
Deflection does not change the subject at hand.
You are very touchy about this arent you?
posted on 11/11/16
Who here is an anti Zionist?
If so, could you give me your understanding of what Zionism is?
posted on 11/11/16
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 3 hours, 48 minutes ago
I empathise with the Jews.
As a Scotsman we too are mocked for our fiscal conservatism, have our own cockney ryhming slang moniker and have complete cants for neighbours....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice wan
posted on 11/11/16
Thought clinton had sizzle and yes way on board, but now the hate for America is back.
Cannot help the bile for jews, yanks, Israel, the British people etc.
Silly sods😃
posted on 11/11/16
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 2 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning rightwing groups when the article is about the left?
Deflection does not change the subject at hand.
You are very touchy about this arent you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning Jews when the article is about fascism and the left?
Either we are both incredibly touchy and that is why we haven't religiously stuck to the original topic or the topic evolved somewhat...
Now back to the discussion you seem eager to distract from all of a sudden Muslims are certainly the target group of choice these days. There is anti Semitism but tbh Jewish people don't seem to get it much worse than most other minorities (Muslims excluded) here in Britain anyway, maybe some places on the mainland?
Although tbh even there all the potentially popular racists who win votes seem to hate the Muslims and not mention the Jewish people.... Le Pen, Geert Wilders, Trump, Farage.
Where are these leading left wing politicians promoting anti Semitism in the same way?!
Racism just doesn't seem to be a vote winner with the left wing parties.
Israel as a county gets a lot of criticism but so does America and so did Apartheid South Africa.
So either these mostly white left wingers are racist against White and Jewish people...
Or they just particularly don't like occupation and killing of innocent people being supported by their country.
I can obviously only guess everyone else's reasoning but the latter just seems a lot more likely...
posted on 11/11/16
Isis hang forty people from lamposts in Mosul and shoot a guy for using his mobile, but yea , let us only slate Israel and brexit or American voters rejecting Clinton.
Sizzle #ignoring islamist extremism
posted on 11/11/16
Eu dicktator Junker lecturing Pres elect after telling uk what to think and do .......what a patronizing, arrogant pwick.
Fek Eu😀
posted on 11/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 11/11/16
Always entertaining debating with TBAB, regardless of what you write the response can just be Muslim group X killed people...
When you haven't got a cohesive argument soundbites are a good choice for real politicians it just doesn't really work so well on a forum....
posted on 12/11/16
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 9 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 2 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 1 hour, 57 minutes ago
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Yes way Jose (U5768)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
They actually helped arm them for their original fight back when Israel was founded but later on any ally of America would be an enemy of Soviet Russia.
Although given any effort by Russia to do so would have ended long ago then maybe Israel is widely hated because of its actions rather than some sneaky left wing trick....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, not saying Israel are angels in any way (although I do not think they are alone in this in the region)
They do seem to be public enemy #1 among the more radical of our domestic groups though to this day, along with the US. Israel seems to get a disproportionate amount of stick compared with other despotic regimes in the region.
Sidnt The Stop the War head refuse to protest at the Russian embassy after their actions in Syria? They only seem to vent their anger at two foreign states really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TBH I'd argue it seems to be the Muslims who are to blame for everything.
Remind me again the image on the billboard Farage stood in front of to sell Brexit to people.
Was it a bunch of Jewish people?
Or a bunch of Muslims?
Also BNP main target is Muslims, they've even successfully courted the votes of other minorities.
I imagine it is people protesting actions their governments are supportive of and take part in.
We don't usually support the bad things Russia does, IS neither.
Israel and America though we support all their bad actions, half the reason we've seen so much terrorism...
It's pretty obvious really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning rightwing groups when the article is about the left?
Deflection does not change the subject at hand.
You are very touchy about this arent you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you mentioning Jews when the article is about fascism and the left?
Either we are both incredibly touchy and that is why we haven't religiously stuck to the original topic or the topic evolved somewhat...
Now back to the discussion you seem eager to distract from all of a sudden Muslims are certainly the target group of choice these days. There is anti Semitism but tbh Jewish people don't seem to get it much worse than most other minorities (Muslims excluded) here in Britain anyway, maybe some places on the mainland?
Although tbh even there all the potentially popular racists who win votes seem to hate the Muslims and not mention the Jewish people.... Le Pen, Geert Wilders, Trump, Farage.
Where are these leading left wing politicians promoting anti Semitism in the same way?!
Racism just doesn't seem to be a vote winner with the left wing parties.
Israel as a county gets a lot of criticism but so does America and so did Apartheid South Africa.
So either these mostly white left wingers are racist against White and Jewish people...
Or they just particularly don't like occupation and killing of innocent people being supported by their country.
I can obviously only guess everyone else's reasoning but the latter just seems a lot more likely...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why am I mentioning Jews?
The article is about Fascism and the Left, and the historical bogeyman is the current legitimate enemy of the hard left.
We often see no differentiation between Israel and Jew when they are reproached, despite all Jews not being Israeli, and all Israelis not being Jews. That is where it rears its ugly head from the veneer (by many, not all) of being just against Iraeli policy.
The leftwing anticalitalist movements also have a streak of the Jew hate in there when you dig in (again, not all).
posted on 12/11/16
So are Muslims enemy #1 of the right? Well yes, I would say you are correct.
Is there racism there, yes of course there is. The right is not up for debate though, we know the problems that are there.
The further right you go the murkier that becomes though....the Jew can still be the bogeyman there, and the more crossover there is with your anticapitalists.
Interesting article by Rabbi Sacks
http://www.rabbisacks.org/mutating-virus-understanding-antisemitism/
posted on 12/11/16
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 12 hours, 44 minutes ago
Who here is an anti Zionist?
If so, could you give me your understanding of what Zionism is?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone?
posted on 12/11/16
Here are a couple of articles that appear on that renowned rightwing mouthpiece, The Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/labour-left-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-israel
This one is from an ex advisor to Corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/13/the-lefts-jewish-problem-corbyn-israel-and-antisemitism-dave-rich-review
This one references and reviews a book
posted on 12/11/16
Why am I mentioning Jews?
..................................
Either, because as you suggested earlier you are extremely touchy on the subject, or because as subjects generally do on forums, they evolve.
............................................
The article is about Fascism and the Left, and the historical bogeyman is the current legitimate enemy of the hard left.
.........................................
Jews?!
I'd argue Fascism is the enemy of the left, despite left wing views being negative Israeli imperialism many Jewish people are also left wing, in fact I've talking (just online) with many Jewish people who were critical of Israeli policy.
..............................................
We often see no differentiation between Israel and Jew when they are reproached, despite all Jews not being Israeli, and all Israelis not being Jews. That is where it rears its ugly head from the veneer (by many, not all) of being just against Iraeli policy.
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TBH many just use it as a cheap excuse to defend Israel, there actions are no more acceptable than IS or any of the other bad groups in the Middle East.
There is of course an element of racism present in the Israeli-Palestine situation, if the Palestinians weren't Muslims but were instead white or Christian would Israel get such enthusiastic support?
I think we all know the answer to that....
posted on 12/11/16
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/labour-left-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-israel
This one is from an ex advisor to Corbyn
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So he dislike a country that occupies and kills it neighbour whilst forcing its people to live in poverty and that makes him anti semitic?!
Quite frankly its no more racist than all the people on this board who continually condemn the Muslim group IS.
Now both these groups do bad things worthy of criticism, so one might suggest that you can actually criticise them without being racist.
If of course you want to push an agenda and silence criticism you might accuse people of being racist for criticising these groups rather than addressing the bad things they do...
That link is just basically one guy crying about Corbyn and the current labour leadership being very critical of Israel...
Good!
Israel do lots of horrible things, you even admitted in your own post that Israel are no angels.
This idea that Israel can not be criticised is actually the most racist thing of all, can help but feel this wouldn't be the case if it was white people or Christians they were occupying and slaughtering.
Sorry did you even read these links you put up or did you just search for anything and everything and go for the numbers philosophy of more links = more proof?
I am not even sure what you are trying to prove with the book review link... hell I am not even sure what the author is trying to say.... he even starts ranting about the Rothschild's at the end...
posted on 12/11/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/11/16
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, nobody said it was. The rabbi himself says so in his piece. I am not sure why you want to push this in the direction of people trying to silence criticism of Israel, other than to deflect from what we are discussing.
See how often the words Jew and Israel are interchanged in discusssion. They are not one and the same. There are people who are both, and there are people who are just one of each. There are Israeli Jews critical of Israeli policy.
The danger is when people see no difference between the two.
Do I think Israel are angels or beyond reproach? No. However, there are two sides to a coin and I do not think it is fair to make the criticism so one-sided.
I get it, you want to see the left as angels because you identify with the left. But to deny there is even a smidgen of an anti semitism in certain parts of the left is pretty dangerous. It gives it legitimacy.
Do you identify yourself as an anti Zionist?
What is your definition of Zionism if so
posted on 12/11/16
There is of course an element of racism present in the Israeli-Palestine situation, if the Palestinians weren't Muslims but were instead white or Christian would Israel get such enthusiastic support?
I think we all know the answer to that....
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Neither are white, or Christian. Very hard to see your point.
On the flipside, if Israel was not a Jewish state would the hard left be as critical of it?
I think we know the answer to this becuase there are plenty of non Jewish states that have worse records than Israel but somehow escape as much scrutiny
posted on 12/11/16
I've always assumed Zionism is a nationalist movement wanting a Jewish state for Jewish people.
That within that movement there are varying degrees of nationalistic fervour from benign to extreme.
Happy to be educated if that's wrong.
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