comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 5 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
Have you googled Azoff Battalions yet, to confirm the small but ever present far right ultra nationalists of Ukraine?
————
Every country has far right nationalists so it’s pretty irrelevant to what’s happening right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok.
If you think a far right paramilitary force in the midst of fighting in Ukraine over the last eight years and to this day is not relevant, I am quite amazed..(fighting ethnic Russians and the invading russians)
Here is a thought.....far right Ukrainian paramilitary violence gives Putin propaganda, so counter the neo natzi presence and do not brush it under the carpet, there or in America, UK or western Europe.
Radical thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell. Literally no matter how many times people explain things to you you’re so desperate to make out like Ukraine are asking for his or that there’s some justification for Putin to invade. I’m not gonna filter you but I see why some have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Him and peks disgusting little apologists
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 5 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
Have you googled Azoff Battalions yet, to confirm the small but ever present far right ultra nationalists of Ukraine?
————
Every country has far right nationalists so it’s pretty irrelevant to what’s happening right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok.
If you think a far right paramilitary force in the midst of fighting in Ukraine over the last eight years and to this day is not relevant, I am quite amazed..(fighting ethnic Russians and the invading russians)
Here is a thought.....far right Ukrainian paramilitary violence gives Putin propaganda, so counter the neo natzi presence and do not brush it under the carpet, there or in America, UK or western Europe.
Radical thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell. Literally no matter how many times people explain things to you you’re so desperate to make out like Ukraine are asking for his or that there’s some justification for Putin to invade. I’m not gonna filter you but I see why some have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Him and peksdisgusting little apologists
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This poster has not read my posts in their entity, and filtered me when I highlighted their hypocrisy, repeated point scoring, using Putin to score petty personal and party political points her and to attack the Tories.
On one thread insert said he did not expect an invasion, due to western troop movements and sanctions, while here he attacked those saying they did not think Putin would invade, and guys such as myself opposing UK and USA boots being sent to fight Russians in Ukraine.
The guy runs an echo chamber Current Events thread with sizzle as main contributor, where he demands no personal insults or abuse or incitement or wumming, lol...and does not allow his view or opinion queried or analysed.
comment by Don't Shoot 🕊️ (U10408)
posted 39 minutes ago
A few thoughts.
Woke up, not dead. Yay!!
Effective propaganda needs to be believable, so plausibility needs to be routed in an element of truth.
Peks, just my opinion, but the Russian you are communicating with doesn't sound Russian. I'm basing this on the amount of Russians I've taught English and the vocabulary they use is very distinctive, as with most nationalities. He sounds too native with his use of certain phrases. That's not to say English learners can't reach levels of nativeness, but the language used doesn't point to a Russian military guy. 🤷♂️
I won't say who this is from as many will then dismiss it, but I liked this statement, if I warn a child that, if he annoys a wasp, it will sting him, am I supporting the wasp?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wise words.
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 7 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 13 minutes ago
Kosovo guy on the forum just asked a question, hopefully Russian guy replies...its a good question:
"What would be the turning point according to you, that will make Ukraine surrender ? Kiev being taken ?
Aren't Russians afraid of a collapse of rouble and every prices of imported goods increasing therefore ?
I try to watch and read different narratives (mainstream French media, RT, TASS, Serbian Politika), but it's really hard to get real situation : the pro-Western bias will tend to overestimate Ukraine's resistance and demonize, belittle Russia; but on the other hand, Russia is certainly also not trying to show the reality in order to keep legitimacy in this conflict
I've been for years a pro-Putin and very skeptical of Western imperialism, but I recognize here I find Putin's invasion disproportional and counter-productive, in terms of global strategy for mid and long run (in the sense that even if Ukraine surrender in 1 week, what about in 1, 5, 10 years ?)
What saddens me the most tbh is that I feel it was like a useful idiot move, being a sparring partner of the EU-NATO that demonized him for years and now are happy that he showed his "evil face", giving illegitimacy of all right-wing nationalist-populist movements for the coming years...
I understand the internal necessity of getting respected, not allowing Donbass people being abused and killed, but it could have been done more delicately (maybe just a military operation in Donbass ?)"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
reply from russian guy:
"We got realy threats of intercontinental missiles 450 km from Moscow, we were threatened with renewing nuclear program of Ukraine, one of first things we did is taking over Chernobyl nuclear plant. There are lots of madmans and nationalists who would consider nuclear tragedy. There's generally lots of ideoligically pumped people at the moment who want to send everything around to hell, if it's not gonna be the same like before. Ukrainian nationalists have irrational animal hate towards majority of own population. Most of Ukrainians voted for Zelensky as he was talking about end of war, people were really tired of nationalist bullshiiit. Nationalists in social media openly name common Ukrainians as "biological masses", while they are themselves some sort of woke minority. I have a relative in Kiev now, son of my mother's nephew, he was a member of Poroshenko's party, he's not a nazzzi, but an uber-patriot, once he told me that "on every free elections pro-Russian candidate will win". He's in his flat in center of Kiev now, i'm happy he's not out with a gun, I hope he's gonna be well, being brainwashed is not a crime anyway.."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether this guy is Russian or not, he’s simply wrong claiming that in “free elections a pro-Russian candidate will win”.
The 2019 elections were widely praised by independent monitoring groups.
‘The International Election Observer Mission (IEOM) released a preliminary assessment that noted some problems but termed the election competitive, reported that candidates campaigned freely, and said that the electorate had a broad choice.’
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/04/15/five-key-things-to-know-about-ukraines-presidential-election/amp/
Contrast that with the charades which are Russian elections.
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did say I would end the far right links comments last night, but you could not let it lie and as I do, you highlight far right extremism in Russia and army ranks, so it appears relevant there to you, and in America of course as you keep bringing up, but not beside Russia.??
There has been eight years of conflict and 14k dead on bothe sides in Ukraine, with two sides clashing across lines in Donestk and Luhansk, where ethnic Russians have been blown and shot up by Azof Battallion and other Ukraine troops, while Russian separatist do the same across the fighting lines in the south east.
Ordinary people in Ukraine from Russian and Ukraine backgrounds are being killed and killing, and it is fair to say ethnic Russians too have suffered, but Putin is lying about genocide of Russians, imo.
We need to be careful not to demonize all Russians and lump them in with Putin too...many oppose him and the seven million ethnic Russians in Ukraine are entitled to be there and not shipped out to Russia.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tbab
Do you have some (independent) evidence of these “horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine”?
Because those independent monitors who *have* been able to enter Donbas since 2014 have reported no such thing:
‘There have been no reports of such targeted mass killings of civilians in Ukraine. All civilian casualties in the conflict, attributed to the fighting or the aftermath, have been meticulously documented by international observers since 2014. The OSCE Observer Mission, which has been traveling on both sides of the "line of contact" in eastern Ukraine since 2014, with Russia's approval, has found no evidence of any systematic killing of civilians. According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights' 2021 data, a total of approximately 3,000 civilians have died in the war zone in eastern Ukraine.
Most of those deaths occurred early on in the fighting but casualty numbers have been dropping since 2016. The latest available summary report from the OSCE's 2020 Monitoring Mission recorded 161 civilian deaths from January 1, 2017, to mid-September 2020 with similar numbers of casualties on both sides. The overwhelming cause of death was artillery fire, followed by landmine and munitions explosions.
The SWP's Pia Fuhrhop said Putin's genocide accusation was "completely baseless."’
https://amp.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-vladimir-putins-justifications-for-going-to-war-against-ukraine-add-up/a-60917168
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tbab
Do you have some (independent) evidence of these “horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine”?
Because those independent monitors who *have* been able to enter Donbas since 2014 have reported no such thing:
‘There have been no reports of such targeted mass killings of civilians in Ukraine. All civilian casualties in the conflict, attributed to the fighting or the aftermath, have been meticulously documented by international observers since 2014. The OSCE Observer Mission, which has been traveling on both sides of the "line of contact" in eastern Ukraine since 2014, with Russia's approval, has found no evidence of any systematic killing of civilians. According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights' 2021 data, a total of approximately 3,000 civilians have died in the war zone in eastern Ukraine.
Most of those deaths occurred early on in the fighting but casualty numbers have been dropping since 2016. The latest available summary report from the OSCE's 2020 Monitoring Mission recorded 161 civilian deaths from January 1, 2017, to mid-September 2020 with similar numbers of casualties on both sides. The overwhelming cause of death was artillery fire, followed by landmine and munitions explosions.
The SWP's Pia Fuhrhop said Putin's genocide accusation was "completely baseless."’
https://amp.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-vladimir-putins-justifications-for-going-to-war-against-ukraine-add-up/a-60917168
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is what it takes tbbab. Another poster going away to demonstrate painstakingly that you are factually inaccurate.
Which is why I suggest you have been manipulated by whatever media (social or mainstream) you consume with narratives that do not reflect reality. And it’s why I used the term concerning as the worry about misinformation is real and is vitally important. I did read your posts in their entirety (any suggestion otherwise is unsupportable) and in my comment I did not pick and choose, I summarised your posting on the topic.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Freudian slip, Condonation,lol.
What a phanny I am🤣🤣
Condemnation.
So, in summary, I think we have established:
- ‘Denazification’ would be irrelevant as a justification for an invasion, even if neo-Naziism were an issue in Ukraine, which it isn’t. Neo-Naziism is actually a bigger issue in many other European countries, including some in Northern Europe.
- Independent monitors have said that there is no evidence of any genocide, ethnic cleansing or targeting of separatist civilians in Donbas by Ukraine
- Independent monitors have reported being impeded by separatists in Donbas, but not by the Ukrainian authorities
- Contrary to peks’ Russian mate’s advice, independent monitors have also praised Ukraine’s recent presidential and parliamentary elections as free and fair, with strong turnouts and no coercion or pressure on voters, who had a wide range of choices.
(And another reminder: the one far right party which stood in the last parliamentary election won a whopping 2.15% of the votes. Much less than, AfD in Germany, the National Front in France, Freedom Party in Netherlands, Freedom Party in Austria, etc.)
^ Clarifier:
Neo-Naziism is obviously a serious issue wherever it presents
What I really meant was a *relative* issue of particular concern.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tbab
Do you have some (independent) evidence of these “horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine”?
Because those independent monitors who *have* been able to enter Donbas since 2014 have reported no such thing:
‘There have been no reports of such targeted mass killings of civilians in Ukraine. All civilian casualties in the conflict, attributed to the fighting or the aftermath, have been meticulously documented by international observers since 2014. The OSCE Observer Mission, which has been traveling on both sides of the "line of contact" in eastern Ukraine since 2014, with Russia's approval, has found no evidence of any systematic killing of civilians. According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights' 2021 data, a total of approximately 3,000 civilians have died in the war zone in eastern Ukraine.
Most of those deaths occurred early on in the fighting but casualty numbers have been dropping since 2016. The latest available summary report from the OSCE's 2020 Monitoring Mission recorded 161 civilian deaths from January 1, 2017, to mid-September 2020 with similar numbers of casualties on both sides. The overwhelming cause of death was artillery fire, followed by landmine and munitions explosions.
The SWP's Pia Fuhrhop said Putin's genocide accusation was "completely baseless."’
https://amp.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-vladimir-putins-justifications-for-going-to-war-against-ukraine-add-up/a-60917168
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is what it takes tbbab. Another poster going away to demonstrate painstakingly that you are factually inaccurate.
Which is why I suggest you have been manipulated by whatever media (social or mainstream) you consume with narratives that do not reflect reality. And it’s why I used the term concerning as the worry about misinformation is real and is vitally important. I did read your posts in their entirety (any suggestion otherwise is unsupportable) and in my comment I did not pick and choose, I summarised your posting on the topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The deaths of ethnic Russians in Donbass were mainly from and higher in number from 2014, and as Rosso said the early years up to 2017 or so, and the burning of 50 Russians in the Workers Union building was back in 2014 when the orange revolution occurred, then both sides were beating each other to death on Ukrainan streets.
In recent weeks, Macron called for shelling to stop between Ukraine and ethinc Russians in the Donbass, so it is still on going and ethnic Russians have suffered, but this is no excuse for Putin to invade or hold his views.
Russians and Ukrainians are Slav brothers and have more in common than divides them, like orange and green in Norn Iron, and I hope that bonds them to stop Putin, isolate him and bring peace to two separate states that respect each other 👍🙏
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am well but per above concerned about how you appear to have been taken in by false narratives.
Do you acknowledge that the term “the north of Ireland” or simply “the north” is widely used in Ireland when referring to Northern Ireland?
Which unionists are told they have “no culture or identity”? Have I ever suggested that? When bb7 said that (years ago IIRC?) I disagreed.
Suppressing the native language of an island is disgusting and any attempts to broaden its use should be supported.
Remember how oppressed language of Gaelic in scotland was for literally hundreds of years.
Rouble now at a record low. Bombs 30% against the dollar.
Russian central bank forced to more than double baseline interest rate to 20%.
Run on the banks now looking likely.
Moody’s to join S&P in downgrading Russian bonds to junk (meaning that it’s about to become extremely expensive for Russia to borrow).
Sanctions taking effect. Pressure ramped up on Putin to get things resolved quickly.
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
^ Clarifier:
Neo-Naziism is obviously a serious issue wherever it presents
What I really meant was a *relative* issue of particular concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you say, Germany, France, UK, Austria, America, Russia, Sweden, Italy, Netherlands etc have far right elements and larger votes for far right groups.
My point is far right Azof Battallion etc being at the centre of violence in this conflict, so that makes them relevant, and even that being so, is no excuse for Putin to invade or label Ukraine natzi.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am well but per above concerned about how you appear to have been taken in by false narratives.
Do you acknowledge that the term “the north of Ireland” or simply “the north” is widely used in Ireland when referring to Northern Ireland?
Which unionists are told they have “no culture or identity”? Have I ever suggested that? When bb7 said that (years ago IIRC?) I disagreed.
Suppressing the native language of an island is disgusting and any attempts to broaden its use should be supported.
Remember how oppressed language of Gaelic in scotland was for literally hundreds of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Happy days, hope the wee woman is thriving and will not grow up in WW3, man 👍
Yes, people in Ireland and myself refer to the North, but Sinn Fein and Irish nationalists use the term, north of Ireland'" rather than NI, to make a political point that NI does not exist, even though like so many regions around the world we are a result of lines drawn in maps, movement of people, different cultures, religions, identities coming together.
Fair play for countering the Sinn Fein bb7 narrative that unionists and loyalists have no identity and nationality freedom of choice.
Never worry about me being indoctrinated by Russia bots or disinformation mate 🤣
I know what Putin is and the people of Ukraine deserve our support against this real far right radical nationalist "neo natzi" nutter.
Chinese state-owned financial institutions are reportedly “distancing themselves” from the Russian economy.
‘The moves suggest a careful balancing act by Beijing as it seeks to buttress ties with Moscow without openly violating sanctions, which could jeopardise its access to key Western export markets and the US dollar-centric international financial system.’
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2022/2/28/as-russias-isolation-grows-china-hints-at-limits-of-friendship
Said it before, will say it again: China gives zero facks about Russia. Strategically and economically it is close to an irrelevance, and if China’s ability to trade with *either* the US or EU is remotely threatened by the nature of its relationship with Russia, it will drop the latter like a napalm potato.
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am well but per above concerned about how you appear to have been taken in by false narratives.
Do you acknowledge that the term “the north of Ireland” or simply “the north” is widely used in Ireland when referring to Northern Ireland?
Which unionists are told they have “no culture or identity”? Have I ever suggested that? When bb7 said that (years ago IIRC?) I disagreed.
Suppressing the native language of an island is disgusting and any attempts to broaden its use should be supported.
Remember how oppressed language of Gaelic in scotland was for literally hundreds of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, forgot the language angle you correctly mention.
Yes, putting a language down is wrong and I am cool with the Irish language and love the gaeltacht areas of Donegal and the wild atlanti way down Ireland's west coast to Cork 👍🙏
Unionists and loyalists should embrace Irish language and culture, imo and not view either as hostile or alien, so I call out dup bigots on this.
I am Irish and Ulster British at the same time, mate and it is the way forward, In a modern NI and Ireland or When we move into a new arrangement.....with the unionist loyalist minority respected and welcomed 😊
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 39 seconds ago
Chinese state-owned financial institutions are reportedly “distancing themselves” from the Russian economy.
‘The moves suggest a careful balancing act by Beijing as it seeks to buttress ties with Moscow without openly violating sanctions, which could jeopardise its access to key Western export markets and the US dollar-centric international financial system.’
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2022/2/28/as-russias-isolation-grows-china-hints-at-limits-of-friendship
Said it before, will say it again: China gives zero facks about Russia. Strategically and economically it is close to an irrelevance, and if China’s ability to trade with *either* the US or EU is remotely threatened by the nature of its relationship with Russia, it will drop the latter like a napalm potato.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
China govts treatment of Muslims, Christians, democratic dissenters, women and girls, Taiwan, Tibet, Africa and the climate/planet is horrendous.
They have their own concerns, so a you say, do not need a Putin problem too.
That Ukranian geezer carrying a landmine he found under a bridge to a safe area with a ciggie hanging out his mouth is the greatest thing I've seen in ages.
Ballsy and mental at the same time.
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 12 minutes ago
That Ukranian geezer carrying a landmine he found under a bridge to a safe area with a ciggie hanging out his mouth is the greatest thing I've seen in ages.
Ballsy and mental at the same time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw that. People in the West can’t even wear a mask 😹
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 39 seconds ago
Chinese state-owned financial institutions are reportedly “distancing themselves” from the Russian economy.
‘The moves suggest a careful balancing act by Beijing as it seeks to buttress ties with Moscow without openly violating sanctions, which could jeopardise its access to key Western export markets and the US dollar-centric international financial system.’
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2022/2/28/as-russias-isolation-grows-china-hints-at-limits-of-friendship
Said it before, will say it again: China gives zero facks about Russia. Strategically and economically it is close to an irrelevance, and if China’s ability to trade with *either* the US or EU is remotely threatened by the nature of its relationship with Russia, it will drop the latter like a napalm potato.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
China govts treatment of Muslims, Christians, democratic dissenters, women and girls, Taiwan, Tibet, Africa and the climate/planet is horrendous.
They have their own concerns, so a you say, do not need a Putin problem too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps a question we can ask is what sources you used to reach the conclusions you did (but now have backed away from?) on the far right influence in Ukraine and the ethnic cleansing/genocide and far right attacks you point to? That might help Rosso insert and others including me understand why you reached the conclusions you reached.
Sign in if you want to comment
Arguing w/strangers cause I'm lonely thread
Page 2485 of 4916
2486 | 2487 | 2488 | 2489 | 2490
posted on 28/2/22
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 5 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
Have you googled Azoff Battalions yet, to confirm the small but ever present far right ultra nationalists of Ukraine?
————
Every country has far right nationalists so it’s pretty irrelevant to what’s happening right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok.
If you think a far right paramilitary force in the midst of fighting in Ukraine over the last eight years and to this day is not relevant, I am quite amazed..(fighting ethnic Russians and the invading russians)
Here is a thought.....far right Ukrainian paramilitary violence gives Putin propaganda, so counter the neo natzi presence and do not brush it under the carpet, there or in America, UK or western Europe.
Radical thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell. Literally no matter how many times people explain things to you you’re so desperate to make out like Ukraine are asking for his or that there’s some justification for Putin to invade. I’m not gonna filter you but I see why some have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Him and peks disgusting little apologists
posted on 28/2/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/2/22
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 5 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbb Kanchelskis 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
Have you googled Azoff Battalions yet, to confirm the small but ever present far right ultra nationalists of Ukraine?
————
Every country has far right nationalists so it’s pretty irrelevant to what’s happening right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok.
If you think a far right paramilitary force in the midst of fighting in Ukraine over the last eight years and to this day is not relevant, I am quite amazed..(fighting ethnic Russians and the invading russians)
Here is a thought.....far right Ukrainian paramilitary violence gives Putin propaganda, so counter the neo natzi presence and do not brush it under the carpet, there or in America, UK or western Europe.
Radical thought?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody hell. Literally no matter how many times people explain things to you you’re so desperate to make out like Ukraine are asking for his or that there’s some justification for Putin to invade. I’m not gonna filter you but I see why some have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Him and peksdisgusting little apologists
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This poster has not read my posts in their entity, and filtered me when I highlighted their hypocrisy, repeated point scoring, using Putin to score petty personal and party political points her and to attack the Tories.
On one thread insert said he did not expect an invasion, due to western troop movements and sanctions, while here he attacked those saying they did not think Putin would invade, and guys such as myself opposing UK and USA boots being sent to fight Russians in Ukraine.
The guy runs an echo chamber Current Events thread with sizzle as main contributor, where he demands no personal insults or abuse or incitement or wumming, lol...and does not allow his view or opinion queried or analysed.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by Don't Shoot 🕊️ (U10408)
posted 39 minutes ago
A few thoughts.
Woke up, not dead. Yay!!
Effective propaganda needs to be believable, so plausibility needs to be routed in an element of truth.
Peks, just my opinion, but the Russian you are communicating with doesn't sound Russian. I'm basing this on the amount of Russians I've taught English and the vocabulary they use is very distinctive, as with most nationalities. He sounds too native with his use of certain phrases. That's not to say English learners can't reach levels of nativeness, but the language used doesn't point to a Russian military guy. 🤷♂️
I won't say who this is from as many will then dismiss it, but I liked this statement, if I warn a child that, if he annoys a wasp, it will sting him, am I supporting the wasp?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wise words.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 7 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 13 minutes ago
Kosovo guy on the forum just asked a question, hopefully Russian guy replies...its a good question:
"What would be the turning point according to you, that will make Ukraine surrender ? Kiev being taken ?
Aren't Russians afraid of a collapse of rouble and every prices of imported goods increasing therefore ?
I try to watch and read different narratives (mainstream French media, RT, TASS, Serbian Politika), but it's really hard to get real situation : the pro-Western bias will tend to overestimate Ukraine's resistance and demonize, belittle Russia; but on the other hand, Russia is certainly also not trying to show the reality in order to keep legitimacy in this conflict
I've been for years a pro-Putin and very skeptical of Western imperialism, but I recognize here I find Putin's invasion disproportional and counter-productive, in terms of global strategy for mid and long run (in the sense that even if Ukraine surrender in 1 week, what about in 1, 5, 10 years ?)
What saddens me the most tbh is that I feel it was like a useful idiot move, being a sparring partner of the EU-NATO that demonized him for years and now are happy that he showed his "evil face", giving illegitimacy of all right-wing nationalist-populist movements for the coming years...
I understand the internal necessity of getting respected, not allowing Donbass people being abused and killed, but it could have been done more delicately (maybe just a military operation in Donbass ?)"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
reply from russian guy:
"We got realy threats of intercontinental missiles 450 km from Moscow, we were threatened with renewing nuclear program of Ukraine, one of first things we did is taking over Chernobyl nuclear plant. There are lots of madmans and nationalists who would consider nuclear tragedy. There's generally lots of ideoligically pumped people at the moment who want to send everything around to hell, if it's not gonna be the same like before. Ukrainian nationalists have irrational animal hate towards majority of own population. Most of Ukrainians voted for Zelensky as he was talking about end of war, people were really tired of nationalist bullshiiit. Nationalists in social media openly name common Ukrainians as "biological masses", while they are themselves some sort of woke minority. I have a relative in Kiev now, son of my mother's nephew, he was a member of Poroshenko's party, he's not a nazzzi, but an uber-patriot, once he told me that "on every free elections pro-Russian candidate will win". He's in his flat in center of Kiev now, i'm happy he's not out with a gun, I hope he's gonna be well, being brainwashed is not a crime anyway.."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether this guy is Russian or not, he’s simply wrong claiming that in “free elections a pro-Russian candidate will win”.
The 2019 elections were widely praised by independent monitoring groups.
‘The International Election Observer Mission (IEOM) released a preliminary assessment that noted some problems but termed the election competitive, reported that candidates campaigned freely, and said that the electorate had a broad choice.’
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/04/15/five-key-things-to-know-about-ukraines-presidential-election/amp/
Contrast that with the charades which are Russian elections.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did say I would end the far right links comments last night, but you could not let it lie and as I do, you highlight far right extremism in Russia and army ranks, so it appears relevant there to you, and in America of course as you keep bringing up, but not beside Russia.??
There has been eight years of conflict and 14k dead on bothe sides in Ukraine, with two sides clashing across lines in Donestk and Luhansk, where ethnic Russians have been blown and shot up by Azof Battallion and other Ukraine troops, while Russian separatist do the same across the fighting lines in the south east.
Ordinary people in Ukraine from Russian and Ukraine backgrounds are being killed and killing, and it is fair to say ethnic Russians too have suffered, but Putin is lying about genocide of Russians, imo.
We need to be careful not to demonize all Russians and lump them in with Putin too...many oppose him and the seven million ethnic Russians in Ukraine are entitled to be there and not shipped out to Russia.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tbab
Do you have some (independent) evidence of these “horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine”?
Because those independent monitors who *have* been able to enter Donbas since 2014 have reported no such thing:
‘There have been no reports of such targeted mass killings of civilians in Ukraine. All civilian casualties in the conflict, attributed to the fighting or the aftermath, have been meticulously documented by international observers since 2014. The OSCE Observer Mission, which has been traveling on both sides of the "line of contact" in eastern Ukraine since 2014, with Russia's approval, has found no evidence of any systematic killing of civilians. According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights' 2021 data, a total of approximately 3,000 civilians have died in the war zone in eastern Ukraine.
Most of those deaths occurred early on in the fighting but casualty numbers have been dropping since 2016. The latest available summary report from the OSCE's 2020 Monitoring Mission recorded 161 civilian deaths from January 1, 2017, to mid-September 2020 with similar numbers of casualties on both sides. The overwhelming cause of death was artillery fire, followed by landmine and munitions explosions.
The SWP's Pia Fuhrhop said Putin's genocide accusation was "completely baseless."’
https://amp.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-vladimir-putins-justifications-for-going-to-war-against-ukraine-add-up/a-60917168
posted on 28/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tbab
Do you have some (independent) evidence of these “horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine”?
Because those independent monitors who *have* been able to enter Donbas since 2014 have reported no such thing:
‘There have been no reports of such targeted mass killings of civilians in Ukraine. All civilian casualties in the conflict, attributed to the fighting or the aftermath, have been meticulously documented by international observers since 2014. The OSCE Observer Mission, which has been traveling on both sides of the "line of contact" in eastern Ukraine since 2014, with Russia's approval, has found no evidence of any systematic killing of civilians. According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights' 2021 data, a total of approximately 3,000 civilians have died in the war zone in eastern Ukraine.
Most of those deaths occurred early on in the fighting but casualty numbers have been dropping since 2016. The latest available summary report from the OSCE's 2020 Monitoring Mission recorded 161 civilian deaths from January 1, 2017, to mid-September 2020 with similar numbers of casualties on both sides. The overwhelming cause of death was artillery fire, followed by landmine and munitions explosions.
The SWP's Pia Fuhrhop said Putin's genocide accusation was "completely baseless."’
https://amp.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-vladimir-putins-justifications-for-going-to-war-against-ukraine-add-up/a-60917168
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is what it takes tbbab. Another poster going away to demonstrate painstakingly that you are factually inaccurate.
Which is why I suggest you have been manipulated by whatever media (social or mainstream) you consume with narratives that do not reflect reality. And it’s why I used the term concerning as the worry about misinformation is real and is vitally important. I did read your posts in their entirety (any suggestion otherwise is unsupportable) and in my comment I did not pick and choose, I summarised your posting on the topic.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
posted on 28/2/22
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Freudian slip, Condonation,lol.
What a phanny I am🤣🤣
Condemnation.
posted on 28/2/22
So, in summary, I think we have established:
- ‘Denazification’ would be irrelevant as a justification for an invasion, even if neo-Naziism were an issue in Ukraine, which it isn’t. Neo-Naziism is actually a bigger issue in many other European countries, including some in Northern Europe.
- Independent monitors have said that there is no evidence of any genocide, ethnic cleansing or targeting of separatist civilians in Donbas by Ukraine
- Independent monitors have reported being impeded by separatists in Donbas, but not by the Ukrainian authorities
- Contrary to peks’ Russian mate’s advice, independent monitors have also praised Ukraine’s recent presidential and parliamentary elections as free and fair, with strong turnouts and no coercion or pressure on voters, who had a wide range of choices.
(And another reminder: the one far right party which stood in the last parliamentary election won a whopping 2.15% of the votes. Much less than, AfD in Germany, the National Front in France, Freedom Party in Netherlands, Freedom Party in Austria, etc.)
posted on 28/2/22
^ Clarifier:
Neo-Naziism is obviously a serious issue wherever it presents
What I really meant was a *relative* issue of particular concern.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tbab
Do you have some (independent) evidence of these “horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine”?
Because those independent monitors who *have* been able to enter Donbas since 2014 have reported no such thing:
‘There have been no reports of such targeted mass killings of civilians in Ukraine. All civilian casualties in the conflict, attributed to the fighting or the aftermath, have been meticulously documented by international observers since 2014. The OSCE Observer Mission, which has been traveling on both sides of the "line of contact" in eastern Ukraine since 2014, with Russia's approval, has found no evidence of any systematic killing of civilians. According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights' 2021 data, a total of approximately 3,000 civilians have died in the war zone in eastern Ukraine.
Most of those deaths occurred early on in the fighting but casualty numbers have been dropping since 2016. The latest available summary report from the OSCE's 2020 Monitoring Mission recorded 161 civilian deaths from January 1, 2017, to mid-September 2020 with similar numbers of casualties on both sides. The overwhelming cause of death was artillery fire, followed by landmine and munitions explosions.
The SWP's Pia Fuhrhop said Putin's genocide accusation was "completely baseless."’
https://amp.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-vladimir-putins-justifications-for-going-to-war-against-ukraine-add-up/a-60917168
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is what it takes tbbab. Another poster going away to demonstrate painstakingly that you are factually inaccurate.
Which is why I suggest you have been manipulated by whatever media (social or mainstream) you consume with narratives that do not reflect reality. And it’s why I used the term concerning as the worry about misinformation is real and is vitally important. I did read your posts in their entirety (any suggestion otherwise is unsupportable) and in my comment I did not pick and choose, I summarised your posting on the topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The deaths of ethnic Russians in Donbass were mainly from and higher in number from 2014, and as Rosso said the early years up to 2017 or so, and the burning of 50 Russians in the Workers Union building was back in 2014 when the orange revolution occurred, then both sides were beating each other to death on Ukrainan streets.
In recent weeks, Macron called for shelling to stop between Ukraine and ethinc Russians in the Donbass, so it is still on going and ethnic Russians have suffered, but this is no excuse for Putin to invade or hold his views.
Russians and Ukrainians are Slav brothers and have more in common than divides them, like orange and green in Norn Iron, and I hope that bonds them to stop Putin, isolate him and bring peace to two separate states that respect each other 👍🙏
posted on 28/2/22
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am well but per above concerned about how you appear to have been taken in by false narratives.
Do you acknowledge that the term “the north of Ireland” or simply “the north” is widely used in Ireland when referring to Northern Ireland?
Which unionists are told they have “no culture or identity”? Have I ever suggested that? When bb7 said that (years ago IIRC?) I disagreed.
Suppressing the native language of an island is disgusting and any attempts to broaden its use should be supported.
Remember how oppressed language of Gaelic in scotland was for literally hundreds of years.
posted on 28/2/22
Rouble now at a record low. Bombs 30% against the dollar.
Russian central bank forced to more than double baseline interest rate to 20%.
Run on the banks now looking likely.
Moody’s to join S&P in downgrading Russian bonds to junk (meaning that it’s about to become extremely expensive for Russia to borrow).
Sanctions taking effect. Pressure ramped up on Putin to get things resolved quickly.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
^ Clarifier:
Neo-Naziism is obviously a serious issue wherever it presents
What I really meant was a *relative* issue of particular concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As you say, Germany, France, UK, Austria, America, Russia, Sweden, Italy, Netherlands etc have far right elements and larger votes for far right groups.
My point is far right Azof Battallion etc being at the centre of violence in this conflict, so that makes them relevant, and even that being so, is no excuse for Putin to invade or label Ukraine natzi.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am well but per above concerned about how you appear to have been taken in by false narratives.
Do you acknowledge that the term “the north of Ireland” or simply “the north” is widely used in Ireland when referring to Northern Ireland?
Which unionists are told they have “no culture or identity”? Have I ever suggested that? When bb7 said that (years ago IIRC?) I disagreed.
Suppressing the native language of an island is disgusting and any attempts to broaden its use should be supported.
Remember how oppressed language of Gaelic in scotland was for literally hundreds of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Happy days, hope the wee woman is thriving and will not grow up in WW3, man 👍
Yes, people in Ireland and myself refer to the North, but Sinn Fein and Irish nationalists use the term, north of Ireland'" rather than NI, to make a political point that NI does not exist, even though like so many regions around the world we are a result of lines drawn in maps, movement of people, different cultures, religions, identities coming together.
Fair play for countering the Sinn Fein bb7 narrative that unionists and loyalists have no identity and nationality freedom of choice.
Never worry about me being indoctrinated by Russia bots or disinformation mate 🤣
I know what Putin is and the people of Ukraine deserve our support against this real far right radical nationalist "neo natzi" nutter.
posted on 28/2/22
Chinese state-owned financial institutions are reportedly “distancing themselves” from the Russian economy.
‘The moves suggest a careful balancing act by Beijing as it seeks to buttress ties with Moscow without openly violating sanctions, which could jeopardise its access to key Western export markets and the US dollar-centric international financial system.’
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2022/2/28/as-russias-isolation-grows-china-hints-at-limits-of-friendship
Said it before, will say it again: China gives zero facks about Russia. Strategically and economically it is close to an irrelevance, and if China’s ability to trade with *either* the US or EU is remotely threatened by the nature of its relationship with Russia, it will drop the latter like a napalm potato.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by bmcl1987 (U14177)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 7 hours ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
By the way, if Russia was actually concerned about Ukrainian ‘genocide’ in Donbas this last eight years, it would have let independent (third country or UN) observers into Luhansk and/or Donetsk.
Ukraine has not blocked human rights observers from entering the region since the 2014 conflict. Russia has, and the separatists have.
Why, if your own people are being subject to an active campaign ‘genocide’, would *you* block NGOs or the UN from entering the region to observe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
14k people have died in the Donbass region, from both sides.
Remember back in the orange revolution era and Russians fought Ukranians in Ukraine streets and in a Workers Union building a ukranian mob burned 50 fleeing Russians to death, while both sides killed each on the streets.
Well, that is where groups such as Azof Battallion come to the fore, as they were then and are now attacking ethnic Russian troops and civilians, and Macron acknowledged this recently, telling both sides to stop shelling in Donetsk.
Putin is using the ethnic Russian plight in the donnbas as a reason to attack his hated Ukraine, for daring to leave the fold, but thee have been horrendous attacks on the Russian minority in Ukraine.
Again, no excuse for Putin invading Ukraine👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Ethnic Russian plight?’
1. The area has been controlled by Russian separatists for years. There is no Ukrainian military presence within Luhansk and Donetsk.
2. If there is ethnic cleansing going on, as Putin has claimed, why have the separatist authorities blocked OSCE observers from entering the area (having been let through by the relevant Ukrainian checkpoints)? Why would the separatists block observers if there is genocide being perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces? It makes less than no sense.
3. If there is genocide taking place, why is Putin desperately trying to swell the number of Russians in Donbas? Would he not open the border and encourage people to flood east, protecting those supposedly being massacred?
And last time now: the presence of far right nationalist elements in the Ukrainian military is irrelevant, particularly given that the Kremlin has asked far right (in fact openly neo-Nazi) groups to join the paramilitary groups in Donbas to fight Ukrainian forces since 2014.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbbab, basically the above in response to what you posted, which was almost word for word identical to what you’ve been posting to Rosso, insert and others for the last couple of days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning bud.
Have you read all of my posts and not taken on board my condonation of Putin at the centre of them?
On a linked topic, Yesterday you used the term "north of Ireland' in relation to the Irish language being opposed by some in Northern Ireland.
Do you acknowledge, "north of Ireland'" is used by Irish nationalists and Sinn Fein, who refuse to accept NI exists, in similar fashion to how Ukraine is viewed by some in Moscow?
Unionists are told they are just Irish and not British, and have no culture or identity etc, again in similar fashion to how Putin views Ukraine.
I am ok being Irish, British and an Ulsterman, with a mix of Irish and British and loyalist identity and culture, but guys such as bb7 Told me what I was and was not and evin suggested I and loyalist go back where we came fr, to Scotland etc.
On Irish language, (which was brought up as alleged opporession of Russian wa raised) I think the dup were wrong to be hostile to it and stop funding for Irish language to schools at one stage, but this is what bigotry and extremism does to us, and SinnFein are also using Irish language Inna political manner, when both sides should respects and treat it as a language.
Hope you and family are well, Bmcl👍😊
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am well but per above concerned about how you appear to have been taken in by false narratives.
Do you acknowledge that the term “the north of Ireland” or simply “the north” is widely used in Ireland when referring to Northern Ireland?
Which unionists are told they have “no culture or identity”? Have I ever suggested that? When bb7 said that (years ago IIRC?) I disagreed.
Suppressing the native language of an island is disgusting and any attempts to broaden its use should be supported.
Remember how oppressed language of Gaelic in scotland was for literally hundreds of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, forgot the language angle you correctly mention.
Yes, putting a language down is wrong and I am cool with the Irish language and love the gaeltacht areas of Donegal and the wild atlanti way down Ireland's west coast to Cork 👍🙏
Unionists and loyalists should embrace Irish language and culture, imo and not view either as hostile or alien, so I call out dup bigots on this.
I am Irish and Ulster British at the same time, mate and it is the way forward, In a modern NI and Ireland or When we move into a new arrangement.....with the unionist loyalist minority respected and welcomed 😊
posted on 28/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 39 seconds ago
Chinese state-owned financial institutions are reportedly “distancing themselves” from the Russian economy.
‘The moves suggest a careful balancing act by Beijing as it seeks to buttress ties with Moscow without openly violating sanctions, which could jeopardise its access to key Western export markets and the US dollar-centric international financial system.’
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2022/2/28/as-russias-isolation-grows-china-hints-at-limits-of-friendship
Said it before, will say it again: China gives zero facks about Russia. Strategically and economically it is close to an irrelevance, and if China’s ability to trade with *either* the US or EU is remotely threatened by the nature of its relationship with Russia, it will drop the latter like a napalm potato.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
China govts treatment of Muslims, Christians, democratic dissenters, women and girls, Taiwan, Tibet, Africa and the climate/planet is horrendous.
They have their own concerns, so a you say, do not need a Putin problem too.
posted on 28/2/22
That Ukranian geezer carrying a landmine he found under a bridge to a safe area with a ciggie hanging out his mouth is the greatest thing I've seen in ages.
Ballsy and mental at the same time.
posted on 28/2/22
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 12 minutes ago
That Ukranian geezer carrying a landmine he found under a bridge to a safe area with a ciggie hanging out his mouth is the greatest thing I've seen in ages.
Ballsy and mental at the same time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw that. People in the West can’t even wear a mask 😹
posted on 28/2/22
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 39 seconds ago
Chinese state-owned financial institutions are reportedly “distancing themselves” from the Russian economy.
‘The moves suggest a careful balancing act by Beijing as it seeks to buttress ties with Moscow without openly violating sanctions, which could jeopardise its access to key Western export markets and the US dollar-centric international financial system.’
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2022/2/28/as-russias-isolation-grows-china-hints-at-limits-of-friendship
Said it before, will say it again: China gives zero facks about Russia. Strategically and economically it is close to an irrelevance, and if China’s ability to trade with *either* the US or EU is remotely threatened by the nature of its relationship with Russia, it will drop the latter like a napalm potato.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
China govts treatment of Muslims, Christians, democratic dissenters, women and girls, Taiwan, Tibet, Africa and the climate/planet is horrendous.
They have their own concerns, so a you say, do not need a Putin problem too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps a question we can ask is what sources you used to reach the conclusions you did (but now have backed away from?) on the far right influence in Ukraine and the ethnic cleansing/genocide and far right attacks you point to? That might help Rosso insert and others including me understand why you reached the conclusions you reached.
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