comment by Robbing Hoody - At the end of a storm (U6374)
posted 11 minutes ago
I'm not saying there is no waste but the primary problem is a lack of staff for both the PoPo or NHS.

Who'd be either in the UK atm? You've a reasonable chance if being assaulted, the hours are shiiiiiiiit and the money bang average.
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Both extremely tough jobs and not rewarded enough, simply because more people are capable of doing them. This is where supply & demand fails our society.

I guess the reasons are, relative ease of access, job security and the slightly above national average wage of £34,000 for nurses and £31,000 for police officers.

Like I said, tough jobs. Not ones that I would do for that money, I'd rather earn £25,000 doing something far less intensive. Although I don't think I put police officers quite at the same level as nurses tbh.

comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 55 minutes ago
Trump reckons he's going to jail today
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US police forces on alert ahead of possible Trump arrest. State of that country.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65022155

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 31 minutes ago
Satters, I recall back a few years ago you were a vocal advocate of the Met Police, would be good to get your reflections on the report 👍
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I most certainly was not and especially not the Met.

What I would often point out is the number of police officers in the entire country, which is around 120,000 and when dreadful things happen I point to those numbers. Are 2,000 police officers raping & murdering people? 20,000? I just cannot stand it when an entire profession is tarnished with a terrible brush due to the actions of a tiny minority.

I don’t have time to read the full report, feel free to provide a précis.

My main criticism of the police is that they are mismanaged, like the NHS. They’re not preventative anymore, just reactive like the fire brigade.
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The summary and conclusions runs to 10 pages bud, not a huge amount of time needed to read.

My main criticism of the police, as it has been for years, is that due to the power imbalance they hold over the citizenry, we must have higher standards than other parts of society. The examples you talk about, they are manifestations, horrible manifestations, of wider problems in the Met. I’ve been saying this for years. That is what this report says. The “a few bad apples” to paraphrase some of the context you look to provide, and indeed what has often been the response by the Met to instances such as those referenced in the report and elsewhere, is called out specifically in the report as part of the problem. That conveniently shortened phrase in full is;

“A few bad apples spoils the bunch”

This report is making that clear. Institutionally racist, sexist and homophobic. A stain on the ideals of Peel, and a disgrace to the city of London and to the UK as a whole. We must do better, we must strive to be better. When we let those in power off the hook, and be under no allusions of the growing power the police have, we are doomed to a cycle of repeated tragedy, such as those bookending the report.

It would be great if you could elaborate on what you mean by “mismanaged” as it is somewhat non-specific.

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 31 minutes ago
Satters, I recall back a few years ago you were a vocal advocate of the Met Police, would be good to get your reflections on the report 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I most certainly was not and especially not the Met.

What I would often point out is the number of police officers in the entire country, which is around 120,000 and when dreadful things happen I point to those numbers. Are 2,000 police officers raping & murdering people? 20,000? I just cannot stand it when an entire profession is tarnished with a terrible brush due to the actions of a tiny minority.

I don’t have time to read the full report, feel free to provide a précis.

My main criticism of the police is that they are mismanaged, like the NHS. They’re not preventative anymore, just reactive like the fire brigade.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The summary and conclusions runs to 10 pages bud, not a huge amount of time needed to read.

My main criticism of the police, as it has been for years, is that due to the power imbalance they hold over the citizenry, we must have higher standards than other parts of society. The examples you talk about, they are manifestations, horrible manifestations, of wider problems in the Met. I’ve been saying this for years. That is what this report says. The “a few bad apples” to paraphrase some of the context you look to provide, and indeed what has often been the response by the Met to instances such as those referenced in the report and elsewhere, is called out specifically in the report as part of the problem. That conveniently shortened phrase in full is;

“A few bad apples spoils the bunch”

This report is making that clear. Institutionally racist, sexist and homophobic. A stain on the ideals of Peel, and a disgrace to the city of London and to the UK as a whole. We must do better, we must strive to be better. When we let those in power off the hook, and be under no allusions of the growing power the police have, we are doomed to a cycle of repeated tragedy, such as those bookending the report.

It would be great if you could elaborate on what you mean by “mismanaged” as it is somewhat non-specific.
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Mismanaged refers to operationally rather than behaviourally.

I’ll try to read the relevant sections tonight, hopefully it is precise rather than waffle & generic.

Police here are expected to be all-things-to-all-people. The same, police by consent, force that is expected to deal withna mental health crisis or a domestic violence incident is the same one that is expected to deal with a law breaking prime minister, guard visiting dignitaries and catching housebreakers.

It's very structure needs changing, broken up, compartmentalised into specialist forces like the Italians and Spanish do for example, and let the overall policing budgets be reassigned accordingly...IE defund the police.

It's madness that one chief has sole control/responsibility over such a wide ranging service, have specific individuals in charge of specific areas we, as citizens, expect to be policed by professional law-enforcement officers.
For example, the armed response units seem, from recent reports, to have a clique of power-mad, testosterone fueled nutters, they are obviously not alone, break them down, break them up, put a chief inspector in place over them, have a person with authority, setting the standards and culture, rooting out the creeps and lunatics and let them be overseen by the Home Sec directly rather than having one, all powerful, all encompassing figurehead who, using simple logic, cannot know what is going on in every corner of the service.

Tesco has announced it is cutting value of its Clubcard rewards scheme.

From 14 June, Clubcard points will be worth twice their value when customers cash them in, rather than three times as they are now.

BREXIT FOOOOKING BRITAIN

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
Police here are expected to be all-things-to-all-people. The same, police by consent, force that is expected to deal withna mental health crisis or a domestic violence incident is the same one that is expected to deal with a law breaking prime minister, guard visiting dignitaries and catching housebreakers.

It's very structure needs changing, broken up, compartmentalised into specialist forces like the Italians and Spanish do for example, and let the overall policing budgets be reassigned accordingly...IE defund the police.

It's madness that one chief has sole control/responsibility over such a wide ranging service, have specific individuals in charge of specific areas we, as citizens, expect to be policed by professional law-enforcement officers.
For example, the armed response units seem, from recent reports, to have a clique of power-mad, testosterone fueled nutters, they are obviously not alone, break them down, break them up, put a chief inspector in place over them, have a person with authority, setting the standards and culture, rooting out the creeps and lunatics and let them be overseen by the Home Sec directly rather than having one, all powerful, all encompassing figurehead who, using simple logic, cannot know what is going on in every corner of the service.
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Grate post

"Johnson admits that misleading Parliament but says that he did not do so intentionally or recklessly."

Sounds a lot like...

"Yes, this does break international law in a very specific and limited way. "

Was reading some of the Johnson document and one of the lines of defence used is the below:

"The Committee seeks to rely on photographs of the events. But again, despite the way that those photographs have been weaponised by the media, they in fact provide further support that this was in no sense “obvious”. Four of the five photographs relied upon by the Committee are photographs from the official No. 10 photographer. A suggestion that we would have held events which were “obviously” contrary to the Rules and Guidance, and allowed those events to be immortalised by the official photographer is implausible."

Literally arguing it couldn't be against the rules because he couldn't possibly be dumb enough to take photos

I’ll be much more interested in the overall enquiry into the handling of covid than some small party with some beers, even if it were the PM.

Don’t really want more money spent on an enquiry into this tbh; we have much higher priorities.

This is necessary to kill the cult of Boris/populism

All he's brought to our politics is lies and corruption, it needs to be scrubbed out and this is part of it... This isn't about whether he had a few parties, we already know he did he got fined for it, it's about him lying to the house with impunity.

Words matter, facts matter, if we allow Boris Johnson to get away with this our politics will only get worse, our country will get worse

100%

The COVID enquiry will take care of itself, this is about holding the former PM to account, that he or anyone els cannot lie to Parliament with impunity, to highlight his contempt for the little people who he thinks he's above and answer for his behaviour live on television.

comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 45 minutes ago
This is necessary to kill the cult of Boris/populism

All he's brought to our politics is lies and corruption, it needs to be scrubbed out and this is part of it... This isn't about whether he had a few parties, we already know he did he got fined for it, it's about him lying to the house with impunity.

Words matter, facts matter, if we allow Boris Johnson to get away with this our politics will only get worse, our country will get worse
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I doubt this will achieve what you hope it will mate.

Look at the trend, the direction of politics & politicians over the last 30 years, 20 years, 10 years. I highly doubt that Johnson getting a slap on the wrist will put a stop to that trend.

This is the type of apathy that creates the politics that promotes liars like Johnson and imbeciles like Braverman. Actions must have consequences.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 15 minutes ago
This is the type of apathy that creates the politics that promotes liars like Johnson and imbeciles like Braverman. Actions must have consequences.
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It’s called being realistic mate. Let’s see if anything changes after his punishment

It's not going to stop liars no but just allowing him to get away with it sets a precedent that's it's ok to do so

He lied his way to no10, he lied his way through his tenure and earned millions after being kicked out for being PM

It's honestly quite important that he's made accountable for that

comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's not going to stop liars no but just allowing him to get away with it sets a precedent that's it's ok to do so

He lied his way to no10, he lied his way through his tenure and earned millions after being kicked out for being PM

It's honestly quite important that he's made accountable for that
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It is, I don’t disagree but my god it’s cost a lot so far. Plus I just have other matters that I’d rather be sorted first

comment by bmcl1987 - the M stands for meltdown 🤓 (U14177)
posted 10 hours, 44 minutes ago
https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/met/about-us/baroness-casey-review/update-march-2023/baroness-casey-review-march-2023.pdf

“ I am unconvinced that police forces are fully alive to that risk, nor that the Met fully understands the gravity of its situation as a whole. If a plane fell out of the sky tomorrow, a whole industry would stop and ask itself why. It would be a catalyst for self-examination, and then root and branch reform. Instead the Met preferred to pretend that their own perpetrators of unconscionable crimes were just ‘bad apples’, or not police officers at all.”

🤷‍♂️
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Bro which 10 pages are you recommending I read?

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's not going to stop liars no but just allowing him to get away with it sets a precedent that's it's ok to do so

He lied his way to no10, he lied his way through his tenure and earned millions after being kicked out for being PM

It's honestly quite important that he's made accountable for that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is, I don’t disagree but my god it’s cost a lot so far. Plus I just have other matters that I’d rather be sorted first
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Like the NI protocol that the DUP rejected, collapsed Stormont over and are denying the citizens of NI their democratic elected devolved Govt, that is detrimentally interfering with our relationship with our allies in Europe and across the Atlantic....and is the consequence of Johnson lies.

* costing a fortune in time and finances.

Bojo nuked the site so we couldnt revel in his demise

Jonathan Reynolds MP

“There is certainly a pattern with this Government.

“When people began to protest in large numbers against their policies, they responded by making it harder to protest.

“When the polls turned and people made it clear they wanted to vote them out of office, they responded by making it harder to vote.

“Now, when paramedics, nurses, transport workers and many other professions decide, in desperation and as a last resort, to go on strike, rather than listen to them and negotiate, the Government are responding by making it harder to strike.

“Let me put it in simple terms for Conservative colleagues: “The problem isn’t them—it’s you.” The Conservative party has built this Britain of low pay, low resilience and insecurity.”

Absolute mic drop.

I would have added two more though:

When the Courts ruled their executive actions unlawful, they responded by drafting legislation which would allow ministers to overrule judicial decisions.

When their cabinet ministers were found to have breached the ministerial code, they blocked investigations and changed the code to make them less accountable to Parliament.

Today is the day Boris’s political career dies and I’m getting a massive erection at the thought of it.

Y?

Whuts appenin?

comment by #4zA - Sto pazziann (U22472)
posted 4 minutes ago
Y?

Whuts appenin?
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He lied to Parliament about the lockdown boogies he was having