comment by BISS Bash BOSSED (U8366)
posted 9 minutes ago
You can’t say his scoring record is patchy at best when hes outscored gyorkes in the championship and got a great scoring record in the prem over multiple seasons vs a guy with ONE season in the portugese league lol.

“Patchy at best” is such a horrendous take, even if you dislike toney, it is extremely hard to argue that statement. & the age is ok because we know hes proven man, and yes the english factor is obviously a thing.

You are happy for us to spend 60m on gyorkes but only 30m on toney. Wild

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Yeah. A couple of years younger, not a massive caant. Toney's had ONE good season in the PL. He came back into the Brentford side after Christmas and did naff all to convince.

Neither opinion is wild or anything. Though paying 60m for Toney in the last year of his contract would be. They're not even asking that much

comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 15 minutes ago
I’m starting to think we won’t be going for a striker and if we do we will wait for a good deal on Toney

Kulu played centre forward in the last friendly as he did last couple of games last season ….reckon he is gonna start there

Doesn’t feel like a priority …..we need creativity ….eze and Neto more pressing
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Goals needed, the only guarantee is Son
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We said this after Kane left and the system provided the shortfall. Loads of players scored.

Also. 12, 20, 4 (PL) is a patchy record for a 60m striker

comment by Bãleș left boot mustn't grumble (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
Also. 12, 20, 4 (PL) is a patchy record for a 60m striker
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"got a great scoring record in the prem over multiple seasons"

I mean, come on. Is this some sort of social media trick?

comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 15 minutes ago
I’m starting to think we won’t be going for a striker and if we do we will wait for a good deal on Toney

Kulu played centre forward in the last friendly as he did last couple of games last season ….reckon he is gonna start there

Doesn’t feel like a priority …..we need creativity ….eze and Neto more pressing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goals needed, the only guarantee is Son
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We said this after Kane left and the system provided the shortfall. Loads of players scored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But didn't score enough, there are not enough goals in a front line of Deki, Son, Werner, Johnson, Richarlison etc

Bales

Toney plays for brentford ffs. His first season of 12 in 33 for a promoted side is good. 20 in 33 is exceptional for brentford. Granted, 4 in 17 is poor, but lets not act like that season doesn’t have a massive asterisk on it.

Also, toney’s ONE good season, if thats what you call it, is in the prem.

Sorry but is that really what its come down to now, trying to pretend toney isn’t a great striker? Come on man

comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 15 minutes ago
I’m starting to think we won’t be going for a striker and if we do we will wait for a good deal on Toney

Kulu played centre forward in the last friendly as he did last couple of games last season ….reckon he is gonna start there

Doesn’t feel like a priority …..we need creativity ….eze and Neto more pressing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goals needed, the only guarantee is Son
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We said this after Kane left and the system provided the shortfall. Loads of players scored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But didn't score enough, there are not enough goals in a front line of Deki, Son, Werner, Johnson, Richarlison etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scored 4 more goals last season(74) in the league than the season before WITH Kane.

For the hundreth time. Conceding goals is the problem. Not scoring them.

comment by BISS Bash BOSSED (U8366)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bales

Toney plays for brentford ffs. His first season of 12 in 33 for a promoted side is good. 20 in 33 is exceptional for brentford. Granted, 4 in 17 is poor, but lets not act like that season doesn’t have a massive asterisk on it.

Also, toney’s ONE good season, if thats what you call it, is in the prem.

Sorry but is that really what its come down to now, trying to pretend toney isn’t a great striker? Come on man
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If he was so 'Great' how come none of the big boys aren't in for him?

Plus Brentford need Toney after his new replacement got injured.

Left back and right forward is all we need for now.

comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by BISS Bash BOSSED (U8366)
posted 2 minutes ago
Bales

Toney plays for brentford ffs. His first season of 12 in 33 for a promoted side is good. 20 in 33 is exceptional for brentford. Granted, 4 in 17 is poor, but lets not act like that season doesn’t have a massive asterisk on it.

Also, toney’s ONE good season, if thats what you call it, is in the prem.

Sorry but is that really what its come down to now, trying to pretend toney isn’t a great striker? Come on man
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If he was so 'Great' how come none of the big boys aren't in for him?

Plus Brentford need Toney after his new replacement got injured.

Left back and right forward is all we need for now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age for 1. For 2, they have better unless maybe arsenal.

If isak is so great why didnt any of the big boys go in for him? If cole palmer is so great why did chelsea get him unopposed for a low fee? You can use that argument all the time

Besides didnt i already say id rather the eze/neto option ahead of toney.

Yeah but you are calling him great and overhyping his goal scoring record.

Palmer and Isak are on long contract and not for sale. They also haven't disrspected the club who pays their wage like Toney has. He is such a bad egg.

comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted about an hour ago
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 15 minutes ago
I’m starting to think we won’t be going for a striker and if we do we will wait for a good deal on Toney

Kulu played centre forward in the last friendly as he did last couple of games last season ….reckon he is gonna start there

Doesn’t feel like a priority …..we need creativity ….eze and Neto more pressing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goals needed, the only guarantee is Son
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We said this after Kane left and the system provided the shortfall. Loads of players scored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But didn't score enough, there are not enough goals in a front line of Deki, Son, Werner, Johnson, Richarlison etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scored 4 more goals last season(74) in the league than the season before WITH Kane.

For the hundreth time. Conceding goals is the problem. Not scoring them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We conceded because we gave the ball away to often in midfield and didn't score enough

Lol

I would tend to agree, I think we conceded so much because (in order):
1) Terrible at set pieces
2) Had nobody to retain the ball up top bar Kulu (and Richy in patches), meaning we conceded possession cheaply frequently - so many time we had possession in the final third given away sloppily and countered on like the Saka goal
3) Individual mistakes from players (Udogie & Porro made a fair few from memory)

comment by BISS Bash BOSSED (U8366)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
Bales

Toney plays for brentford ffs. His first season of 12 in 33 for a promoted side is good. 20 in 33 is exceptional for brentford. Granted, 4 in 17 is poor, but lets not act like that season doesn’t have a massive asterisk on it.

Also, toney’s ONE good season, if thats what you call it, is in the prem.

Sorry but is that really what its come down to now, trying to pretend toney isn’t a great striker? Come on man
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Yeah you were doing so well until you said Toney was a great striker. There's every chance we'll pass like all the other big clubs have and he'll go to West Ham.

FWIW I'm not saying Gyokeres is a goat or anything but he's probably better than Toney, younger, not a caant. Neither is the next Kane but all we needv right now is a reliable improvement on Richarlison, with availability being a big part of that. Like I say, I wouldn't want Richarlison at the club if we signed either. That'd be silly. And I don't see that we'll spend the required without selling him anyway

We conceded because we gave the ball away to often in midfield and didn't score enough
---

Agreed. It's why I said before the window I want a proper number 6. I guess Gray could take minutes off Bissouma. Though I don't get why we haven't dropped the money on Eze for when Maddison does nothing

What is the definition of great striker, what metrics do they have to achieve?

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 33 minutes ago
I would tend to agree, I think we conceded so much because (in order):
1) Terrible at set pieces
2) Had nobody to retain the ball up top bar Kulu (and Richy in patches), meaning we conceded possession cheaply frequently - so many time we had possession in the final third given away sloppily and countered on like the Saka goal
3) Individual mistakes from players (Udogie & Porro made a fair few from memory)
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Yup

Individually the CBs especially had good seasons, some naive tactics also leave the defence more exposed I guess contributing to the goals conceded, especially in some big games when we got battered

Consistent goal scoring over more than a few seasons. In double figures(late teens at least or more). Match winners, some only need one chance a game. They are in the right place at the right time. Fox in box or can they can bang them in from distance.

It's not a one size fits all criteria but consistency is key, over more than 3 or 4 seasons or more.

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 55 minutes ago
What is the definition of great striker, what metrics do they have to achieve?
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It's a great question. I guess we'd start with much better than average, significantly better than good,, and a bit better than very good.

So in the top 1-2 strikers in a top league, over a few seasons to get past the 'one season wonder' and 'flat track bully' tags. To be really sure, they'll be first choice for their country and maybe a couple of big clubs, or you'll get questions like 'yeah but can they do it in..'

I think whatever objective or subjective measure you use, calling Ivan Toney great is a tough ask. He's great at certain things, sure

Tbh, after watching Harry Kane for the last ten odd years it' s a weird question.

comment by BISS Bash BOSSED (U8366)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
Arsenal just sold a backup youth player for 35m pure profit and we can’t get a single penny for ndombele, perisic, dier, sess, tanganga (?) combined. Not to even get started on gil
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We got 100m for Kane

I don't want Toney, but I think this adament that he isn't great stance isn't one I agree with:

1) Consistency? He's been that since 2018, and had a one off season due to off-field reasons which is allowed.
2) Late teen goals? He scored 31, 12 & 20 - thats really impressive and not done very often
3) Match winners? Of course he has: Match winner vs Man City in a 2-1 win. Match tieing goal vs Arsenal in a 1-1 draw. Those two spring to mind.

Regarding Bales point. Would you have considered Jamie Vardy great? He was never "1 or 2" just because he was behind Kane, Aguero, Aubameyang and probably Everton's Lukaku. I still would have considered him great personally.

I think that Toney has done as well as he has, in a team that are basically a sophisticated Stoke - is really impressive and his on-field qualities are significant. I just think the off-field stuff, age & cost make him an easy no for me.

I left off the intangibles part of my answer cos it got really waffly but yeah there's a bunch of things that aren't stats that could make or break a player being thought of as great IMO

I mean, it could be a positive like being really fast and/or particularly good in one system (Vardy). Or negatives like off field stuff (very good but..), frequent injuries (would be great if..)

End of the day you can call whoever you want great if you can make a case for it. But I'm saying 12, 20, 4 goals makes him good, probably very good considering it's for Brentford. Let's take his full seasons average as 16.. using that as a marker for greatness you're gonna have to apply it to maybe 5 strikers each season. Seems kinda silly

Maybe that's another criteria. Like, Vardy was a great striker using his pace in behind. Toney is a great target man. Maybe the actual grates transcend a certain system, like Kane is going to be great however you use him