comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 26 seconds ago
Do you think that BPF contributed more to us being top of the league than those three players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a ridiculous question.
Firstly, they're all different positions, it's like comparing apples with oranges, secondly you're asking to compare 1 player v 3.
During the time BPF was first choice keeper he contributed more to the team than any one of those individual players solely on the fact that he played more games over that period of time than any of them.
BPF played 28 matches till end of Jan
Pablo only played 21
Roofe only played 23
Philips played 28 times and got a red card which cost us v forest and was subbed off after 20 odd minutes v Swansea.
Can you say a player who played 7 matches less contributed more?
Why can't people just accept that he was a key part of us being top, instead of trying to put him down all the time.
Faith, I would like nothing more than a better keeper coming in, but the stats that you're ignoring suggests he is the best keeper we've had for a long while!..
Saying better keeper, can we have a striker, wingers, defense that can cover more for Bielsa's system, and if we can a better coach?..
So what Jonty is saying is that the best way to assess contribution is not skill or performance. But how many minutes you played.
Of course you can say a player that played 7 games less contributed more!
What stats suggest he’s the best keeper we have had for a long time?
And I wasn’t saying did he have more of a contribution than all three together. I’m saying did he have more than any of them individually. No.
This is so stupid. Of course he didn’t. They were excellent.
Do you think he was one of our best players last season?
I think he was our best keeper last season!..
But what does that matter around here?..
I just read this on the web and it sums up my take on this perfectly:
"For all the blunders Casilla has made the 22-year-old is equally as error-prone. There is a reason the Whites brought someone in to replace him in January, and they shouldn’t lose sight of that.
Likewise, while you can’t fault Peacock-Farrell’s ambition and determination, there’s also a clear element of disrespect about his comments. Less than two years ago he was playing for York City; now, with just 41 first team appearances under his belt, he’s essentially laying down ultimatums.
That alone, regardless of Peacock-Farrell’s actual form, should be grounds enough for Leeds to get rid. If every player is allowed to dictate the terms of their own status in the squad, managing the dressing room will become impossible.
Peacock-Farrell has a lot of potential but not enough to start bowing down."
So what Jonty is saying is that the best way to assess contribution is not skill or performance. But how many minutes you played.
--------
Why do you think players get to play minutes if its not for their skill or performance?
Seriously, what is wrong with you?
The stats suggest that he was the best keeper at least since Green (whom Orta let go).
45, he’s been with us for 6 years and just broken into first team and gotten to top of division in side that’s been talk of the country.
All he’s saud is he wants to play snd hasn’t been offered a contract extension. Don’t find it disrespectful at all, it’s a tough position being keeper, most players don’t want to just sit on bench.
FanFor45, to let anyone go you should bring better in, the lad was thrown in at the deep end and than you could say crapped on!..
He's been called into the International scene so that means someone else thinks there's something in him!..
"For all the blunders Casilla has made the 22-year-old is equally as error-prone. There is a reason the Whites brought someone in to replace him in January, and they shouldn’t lose sight of that."
But, his error-prone hasn't let as many in as the superior keeper, and I'd think if he'd played until the seasons end he wouldn't have let as many in as Casilla did after replacing him!..
You never know, he just might have been the difference between top 2 or 3!..
Jonty. You must know you’re talking rubbish.
You honestly believe the truest indicator of how good a player is, is how many minutes they have played?
The fact that our of the 4 pleasers discussed. The only one that Bielsa tried to drop was BPF. The others never dropped as far as I can remember. The only played that had a replacement signed for him was BPF.
And in fact the one that played the least minutes was BPF.
This is just being stupid. I can’t believe I’m talking to someone that is arguing BPF had more of an influence than Roofe, Phillips, and Pablo. And you’re not giving anything you saw on the pitch as a reason. You’re just clutching at straws.
I don’t think it’s disrespectful for him to want first team football. I like that. And he deserves it. If he starts the season for Leeds it won’t be the end of the world. But I think it’s a position we need better in.
Ps Jonty. The Ballon D’or award is not given to the player that played the most minutes over the year. Thought you should know. Don’t want you to look silly in the pub
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 8 hours, 59 minutes ago
So what Jonty is saying is that the best way to assess contribution is not skill or performance. But how many minutes you played.
--------
Why do you think players get to play minutes if its not for their skill or performance?
Seriously, what is wrong with you?
The stats suggest that he was the best keeper at least since Green (whom Orta let go).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Injuries. Lack of options in a specific position. Other players not settling. All reasons why a less talented player may get minutes.
Not saying it's the case with BPF. Just that your argument is nonsense.
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 19 hours, 9 minutes ago
Think there’s some good balanced debate on this mostly here lads. My take, I like that he says he wants to play, I want to see that and confidence in a player. Should he talk about contract offers? Maybe not, but there will be interest in him, and he probably just wants the club to offer him a deal or let him move on. Is that really an ultimatum? If they can’t intimate that he’s their preferred choice to start the season... and I get that that’s a tricky one for the club then he might be interested in a loan deal... but again that means we need 2 keepers.
Do I think we should keep him? If we can yes, there is the makings of a good keeper there... and importantly his distribution is excellent and that’s key to Bielsa ball. Did it impact how well the team performed v casilla? Really hard to say.
Playing keeper in a Bielsa team with a high press isn’t easy for anyone. I think we’ll get mistakes from any keeper, but there’s no doubting bpf made a few. Can the club gamble on experience reducing the errors. I’m pretty sure it will but can you risk that in what is hopefully a promotion season? It’s not an easy call.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How’s that good healthy balanced discussion going now 🤣🤣🤣🤣👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Not many threads these days don't descend into this, but just a symptom of the disappointment of the fans so probably going to happen and some big personalities who like to get the last word in.
This ones lively, not nasty as such.
I’m more confused now than 24 hours ago about whether BPF is any use 😩😩😩
comment by VOF - are we there yet? (U17124)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 19 hours, 9 minutes ago
Think there’s some good balanced debate on this mostly here lads. My take, I like that he says he wants to play, I want to see that and confidence in a player. Should he talk about contract offers? Maybe not, but there will be interest in him, and he probably just wants the club to offer him a deal or let him move on. Is that really an ultimatum? If they can’t intimate that he’s their preferred choice to start the season... and I get that that’s a tricky one for the club then he might be interested in a loan deal... but again that means we need 2 keepers.
Do I think we should keep him? If we can yes, there is the makings of a good keeper there... and importantly his distribution is excellent and that’s key to Bielsa ball. Did it impact how well the team performed v casilla? Really hard to say.
Playing keeper in a Bielsa team with a high press isn’t easy for anyone. I think we’ll get mistakes from any keeper, but there’s no doubting bpf made a few. Can the club gamble on experience reducing the errors. I’m pretty sure it will but can you risk that in what is hopefully a promotion season? It’s not an easy call.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How’s that good healthy balanced discussion going now 🤣🤣🤣🤣👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.... hmmm 🤣🤣
I think the best thing would be to find Casilla a club in La Liga that will take his wage on. Even if there is no or minimal fee involved.
And see if there’s a side around the base of the championship or top of league 1 that would take BPF on a season long loan and start him.
We could either sign someone like Nick Pope, Forster, Adrian etc on a season long loan ourselves.
Then we would have the opportunity to try and sign the keeper permenantly or if BPF has proved himself to turn to him for the following season.
That’s assuming that those names (just examples I appreciate that) have what MB is looking for & importantly we have the ability to sign them.
Playing out & having passing ability is just as high on his list as shot stopping & commanding the area.
I think the BPF thread I started has lost it's way. Ah well, it was a good debate for a couple of days, which isn't bad, before it descended into tit-for-tat sniping.
What's the next topic?!
Happy weekend all.
Yeah spot on VOF.
And assuming that we could get one of them as well.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 12 hours, 27 minutes ago
45, he’s been with us for 6 years and just broken into first team and gotten to top of division in side that’s been talk of the country.
All he’s saud is he wants to play snd hasn’t been offered a contract extension. Don’t find it disrespectful at all, it’s a tough position being keeper, most players don’t want to just sit on bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Much of BPF's "good" stats were because of the way the outfield players were playing in the first half of the season.
We were pretty much untouchable - restricting other teams to low numbers of shots on target.
Once our bubble kind of burst with respect to the defence, the keeper was needed more and BPF was shown to be lacking something.
I know that almost from the moment BPF was replaced by Casilla I personally stopped worrying about the interactions between our defenders and the goalie.
It's interesting that as time has passed, Casilla has become less trustworthy in that respect.
I wonder if we might have two good goalkeepers and over time their training and game-play instructions are causing confusion and indecision?
Perhaps it's a Bielsa blind-spot?
For me neither keeper is good enough, I am not sure how good Kiko's English is and am concerned that that may be a barrier.
As I said many times before, I have significant concerns about the coaching. Marcos Abad never played professionally, coaches of all the other top five clubs did. You can certainly learn some aspects of coaching through the academic route but I would much prefer a coach who had been there and done it.
With respect to both GK's - we have had much better and much worse.
The issue for me was the money spent on KC in January where, in terms of priority, it wasn't at the top by any means , our lack of converting chances proved that.
With respect to the OP, I get the feeling it's his agent talking - wish the players could somehow get independent advice from people without vested interests.
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
With respect to both GK's - we have had much better and much worse.
The issue for me was the money spent on KC in January where, in terms of priority, it wasn't at the top by any means , our lack of converting chances proved that.
With respect to the OP, I get the feeling it's his agent talking - wish the players could somehow get independent advice from people without vested interests.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this is how i see it too. BPF is getting bad advise just like a lot of young players. agents are the scourge of football. more self interest than whats best for the player.
I don’t think BPF has said he must be guaranteed a start. No one is guaranteed. However when Kiko was signed, it was made known he would be the first choice keeper. BPF is asking to be named first choice and of course going along with that is a contract that runs more than the year he has left (I believe).
100 - congrats Alp - good debate!
Sign in if you want to comment
BPF ultimatum
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posted on 7/6/19
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 26 seconds ago
Do you think that BPF contributed more to us being top of the league than those three players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a ridiculous question.
Firstly, they're all different positions, it's like comparing apples with oranges, secondly you're asking to compare 1 player v 3.
During the time BPF was first choice keeper he contributed more to the team than any one of those individual players solely on the fact that he played more games over that period of time than any of them.
BPF played 28 matches till end of Jan
Pablo only played 21
Roofe only played 23
Philips played 28 times and got a red card which cost us v forest and was subbed off after 20 odd minutes v Swansea.
Can you say a player who played 7 matches less contributed more?
Why can't people just accept that he was a key part of us being top, instead of trying to put him down all the time.
posted on 7/6/19
Faith, I would like nothing more than a better keeper coming in, but the stats that you're ignoring suggests he is the best keeper we've had for a long while!..
Saying better keeper, can we have a striker, wingers, defense that can cover more for Bielsa's system, and if we can a better coach?..
posted on 7/6/19
So what Jonty is saying is that the best way to assess contribution is not skill or performance. But how many minutes you played.
Of course you can say a player that played 7 games less contributed more!
What stats suggest he’s the best keeper we have had for a long time?
And I wasn’t saying did he have more of a contribution than all three together. I’m saying did he have more than any of them individually. No.
This is so stupid. Of course he didn’t. They were excellent.
Do you think he was one of our best players last season?
posted on 7/6/19
I think he was our best keeper last season!..
But what does that matter around here?..
posted on 7/6/19
I just read this on the web and it sums up my take on this perfectly:
"For all the blunders Casilla has made the 22-year-old is equally as error-prone. There is a reason the Whites brought someone in to replace him in January, and they shouldn’t lose sight of that.
Likewise, while you can’t fault Peacock-Farrell’s ambition and determination, there’s also a clear element of disrespect about his comments. Less than two years ago he was playing for York City; now, with just 41 first team appearances under his belt, he’s essentially laying down ultimatums.
That alone, regardless of Peacock-Farrell’s actual form, should be grounds enough for Leeds to get rid. If every player is allowed to dictate the terms of their own status in the squad, managing the dressing room will become impossible.
Peacock-Farrell has a lot of potential but not enough to start bowing down."
posted on 7/6/19
So what Jonty is saying is that the best way to assess contribution is not skill or performance. But how many minutes you played.
--------
Why do you think players get to play minutes if its not for their skill or performance?
Seriously, what is wrong with you?
The stats suggest that he was the best keeper at least since Green (whom Orta let go).
posted on 8/6/19
45, he’s been with us for 6 years and just broken into first team and gotten to top of division in side that’s been talk of the country.
All he’s saud is he wants to play snd hasn’t been offered a contract extension. Don’t find it disrespectful at all, it’s a tough position being keeper, most players don’t want to just sit on bench.
posted on 8/6/19
FanFor45, to let anyone go you should bring better in, the lad was thrown in at the deep end and than you could say crapped on!..
He's been called into the International scene so that means someone else thinks there's something in him!..
"For all the blunders Casilla has made the 22-year-old is equally as error-prone. There is a reason the Whites brought someone in to replace him in January, and they shouldn’t lose sight of that."
But, his error-prone hasn't let as many in as the superior keeper, and I'd think if he'd played until the seasons end he wouldn't have let as many in as Casilla did after replacing him!..
You never know, he just might have been the difference between top 2 or 3!..
posted on 8/6/19
Jonty. You must know you’re talking rubbish.
You honestly believe the truest indicator of how good a player is, is how many minutes they have played?
The fact that our of the 4 pleasers discussed. The only one that Bielsa tried to drop was BPF. The others never dropped as far as I can remember. The only played that had a replacement signed for him was BPF.
And in fact the one that played the least minutes was BPF.
This is just being stupid. I can’t believe I’m talking to someone that is arguing BPF had more of an influence than Roofe, Phillips, and Pablo. And you’re not giving anything you saw on the pitch as a reason. You’re just clutching at straws.
I don’t think it’s disrespectful for him to want first team football. I like that. And he deserves it. If he starts the season for Leeds it won’t be the end of the world. But I think it’s a position we need better in.
posted on 8/6/19
Ps Jonty. The Ballon D’or award is not given to the player that played the most minutes over the year. Thought you should know. Don’t want you to look silly in the pub
posted on 8/6/19
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 8 hours, 59 minutes ago
So what Jonty is saying is that the best way to assess contribution is not skill or performance. But how many minutes you played.
--------
Why do you think players get to play minutes if its not for their skill or performance?
Seriously, what is wrong with you?
The stats suggest that he was the best keeper at least since Green (whom Orta let go).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Injuries. Lack of options in a specific position. Other players not settling. All reasons why a less talented player may get minutes.
Not saying it's the case with BPF. Just that your argument is nonsense.
posted on 8/6/19
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 19 hours, 9 minutes ago
Think there’s some good balanced debate on this mostly here lads. My take, I like that he says he wants to play, I want to see that and confidence in a player. Should he talk about contract offers? Maybe not, but there will be interest in him, and he probably just wants the club to offer him a deal or let him move on. Is that really an ultimatum? If they can’t intimate that he’s their preferred choice to start the season... and I get that that’s a tricky one for the club then he might be interested in a loan deal... but again that means we need 2 keepers.
Do I think we should keep him? If we can yes, there is the makings of a good keeper there... and importantly his distribution is excellent and that’s key to Bielsa ball. Did it impact how well the team performed v casilla? Really hard to say.
Playing keeper in a Bielsa team with a high press isn’t easy for anyone. I think we’ll get mistakes from any keeper, but there’s no doubting bpf made a few. Can the club gamble on experience reducing the errors. I’m pretty sure it will but can you risk that in what is hopefully a promotion season? It’s not an easy call.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How’s that good healthy balanced discussion going now 🤣🤣🤣🤣👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
posted on 8/6/19
Not many threads these days don't descend into this, but just a symptom of the disappointment of the fans so probably going to happen and some big personalities who like to get the last word in.
posted on 8/6/19
This ones lively, not nasty as such.
I’m more confused now than 24 hours ago about whether BPF is any use 😩😩😩
posted on 8/6/19
comment by VOF - are we there yet? (U17124)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 19 hours, 9 minutes ago
Think there’s some good balanced debate on this mostly here lads. My take, I like that he says he wants to play, I want to see that and confidence in a player. Should he talk about contract offers? Maybe not, but there will be interest in him, and he probably just wants the club to offer him a deal or let him move on. Is that really an ultimatum? If they can’t intimate that he’s their preferred choice to start the season... and I get that that’s a tricky one for the club then he might be interested in a loan deal... but again that means we need 2 keepers.
Do I think we should keep him? If we can yes, there is the makings of a good keeper there... and importantly his distribution is excellent and that’s key to Bielsa ball. Did it impact how well the team performed v casilla? Really hard to say.
Playing keeper in a Bielsa team with a high press isn’t easy for anyone. I think we’ll get mistakes from any keeper, but there’s no doubting bpf made a few. Can the club gamble on experience reducing the errors. I’m pretty sure it will but can you risk that in what is hopefully a promotion season? It’s not an easy call.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How’s that good healthy balanced discussion going now 🤣🤣🤣🤣👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.... hmmm 🤣🤣
posted on 8/6/19
I think the best thing would be to find Casilla a club in La Liga that will take his wage on. Even if there is no or minimal fee involved.
And see if there’s a side around the base of the championship or top of league 1 that would take BPF on a season long loan and start him.
We could either sign someone like Nick Pope, Forster, Adrian etc on a season long loan ourselves.
Then we would have the opportunity to try and sign the keeper permenantly or if BPF has proved himself to turn to him for the following season.
posted on 8/6/19
That’s assuming that those names (just examples I appreciate that) have what MB is looking for & importantly we have the ability to sign them.
Playing out & having passing ability is just as high on his list as shot stopping & commanding the area.
posted on 8/6/19
I think the BPF thread I started has lost it's way. Ah well, it was a good debate for a couple of days, which isn't bad, before it descended into tit-for-tat sniping.
What's the next topic?!
Happy weekend all.
posted on 8/6/19
Yeah spot on VOF.
And assuming that we could get one of them as well.
posted on 8/6/19
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 12 hours, 27 minutes ago
45, he’s been with us for 6 years and just broken into first team and gotten to top of division in side that’s been talk of the country.
All he’s saud is he wants to play snd hasn’t been offered a contract extension. Don’t find it disrespectful at all, it’s a tough position being keeper, most players don’t want to just sit on bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Much of BPF's "good" stats were because of the way the outfield players were playing in the first half of the season.
We were pretty much untouchable - restricting other teams to low numbers of shots on target.
Once our bubble kind of burst with respect to the defence, the keeper was needed more and BPF was shown to be lacking something.
I know that almost from the moment BPF was replaced by Casilla I personally stopped worrying about the interactions between our defenders and the goalie.
It's interesting that as time has passed, Casilla has become less trustworthy in that respect.
I wonder if we might have two good goalkeepers and over time their training and game-play instructions are causing confusion and indecision?
Perhaps it's a Bielsa blind-spot?
posted on 8/6/19
For me neither keeper is good enough, I am not sure how good Kiko's English is and am concerned that that may be a barrier.
As I said many times before, I have significant concerns about the coaching. Marcos Abad never played professionally, coaches of all the other top five clubs did. You can certainly learn some aspects of coaching through the academic route but I would much prefer a coach who had been there and done it.
posted on 8/6/19
With respect to both GK's - we have had much better and much worse.
The issue for me was the money spent on KC in January where, in terms of priority, it wasn't at the top by any means , our lack of converting chances proved that.
With respect to the OP, I get the feeling it's his agent talking - wish the players could somehow get independent advice from people without vested interests.
posted on 8/6/19
comment by The Very Rev Wilko (U21072)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
With respect to both GK's - we have had much better and much worse.
The issue for me was the money spent on KC in January where, in terms of priority, it wasn't at the top by any means , our lack of converting chances proved that.
With respect to the OP, I get the feeling it's his agent talking - wish the players could somehow get independent advice from people without vested interests.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this is how i see it too. BPF is getting bad advise just like a lot of young players. agents are the scourge of football. more self interest than whats best for the player.
posted on 8/6/19
I don’t think BPF has said he must be guaranteed a start. No one is guaranteed. However when Kiko was signed, it was made known he would be the first choice keeper. BPF is asking to be named first choice and of course going along with that is a contract that runs more than the year he has left (I believe).
posted on 8/6/19
100 - congrats Alp - good debate!
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