Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 4 minutes ago
Be interesting to see how Liverpool evolve from here
Dortmund fell off a cliff after they won the title under Klopp
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't they win 2 titles back to back? Then it wasn't until a few seasons after that they finished mid-table, and I could be wrong but that may have been the season after they sold Lewa to Bayern. So there's no reason to think Liverpool will significantly drop in form after this, their first PL win, although this is a stronger league with more competition so may be less chance of winning the title next season than him doing it with Dortmund in the Bundesliga.
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 7 minutes ago
Be interesting to see how Liverpool evolve from here
Dortmund fell off a cliff after they won the title under Klopp
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if we did drop off under klopp in a season or two. What I will say is that he will have resources that he didn't at Dortmund.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you finish this season with just 1 or 2 loses in the last 2 seasons there is nowhere to go but down.
no loss no draws?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Mane Man - WORLD CHAMPIONS-"Sadio, I’ll get him back don’t worry.” (U19731)
posted 18 minutes ago
We were fighting for 7th and 8th before Klopp took over with a lot of average players. 2013/2014 was an exception with Suarez in form.
He got rid of the mid table back four and goalkeeper we had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He spent a lot of money but he did so wisely. Wish we could say the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He lost a lot of valuable assets to get that money, an excuse Utd don't have to fall back on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you say that when we still haven’t replaced a lot of the key players we lost under Fergie? The players that have come in since can’t be described as key players since they’ve flopped almost without exception. United have spent poorly and until we get the structure of the club settled we will continue to struggle. At least Solskjaer is bringing some consistency to our policy.
For what it's worth the underlying metrics were still really good even in klopp's final season, finished 2nd on xG. Just a victim of unbelievably poor finishing
The New York Times did a piece last year about how it basically got Klopp the liverpool job
Didnt Bayern used to dismantle every team he built?
They're equal IMO. Both the best man for a specific type of club project & to date there's marginal evidence to say how one would compare in the other's circumstances.
I'll never buy the argument of "he's always had the resources" as a means of discrediting Pep, primarily as we've never seen how he'd fare at a slightly less club but there's nothing to suggest he wouldn't do well, all that can be said with a great degree of certainty is he's the best manager to have if you're the best club in town. His impact on how the game's played today really can't be understated - the foundation of Klopp's aggressive press was built by Pep's Barca, his teams have gone a long way to redefining the art of pressing in general. His avocation of positional play has changed the way all managers of his generation view how players should move without the ball while the teams in possession (in Sarri we had a manager who dedicated himself 100% to it). If these things were easy to implement just by being at the best clubs, Bielsa would have the best CV of all time.
Klopp to me represents the best mentality driven manager right now, he's overtaken Mourinho & replaced Ferguson in that respect. Outside of his particular brand of aggressive pressing there's nothing special about him tactically, his ability comes from his power of personality being in-sync with his playing style, players & fanbase, everything about Liverpool is cohesive right now and it stems from him. Similar to how Jose's profile & mentality in the noughties mirrored how we felt as fans and were perceived at that time - arrogant upstarts who everyone hated. Makes Klopp perfect for clubs who fall back on passion/energy as an identity.
Both top horses for courses managers.
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 24 minutes ago
For what it's worth the underlying metrics were still really good even in klopp's final season, finished 2nd on xG. Just a victim of unbelievably poor finishing
The New York Times did a piece last year about how it basically got Klopp the liverpool job
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That nyt article is a great read, too long for many on here though
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
We have to respect the fact that without Pep raising the standards with City to get to 100 points, Klopp's Liverpool would not have advanced to the sort of form they're in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep laid down the challenge.. Klopp smashed it.
Klopp > Pep
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
they've faced off 18 times so far, each time pep has been at the club with significantly greater resources available to him than his counterpart.
the head to head record
Klopp 9 wins 7 losses 2 draws
pep 7 wins 9 losses 2 draws
definitive evidential proof that Klopp > pep
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
Pep. He has consistently been the better manager.
Klopp can do well but yet to be consistent at a high level
hmm. so far this season
Klopp W 24 L 0 D 1
pep W 16 L 6 D 3
what was that about consistency???
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, it’s posts like that made me not bother writing a lengthy answer in the first place, this site really isn’t worth it any more!
Both excellent managers and you'd want them for different reasons. From their time in England, I'd prefer to have Klopp. Liverpool will win the league this season and have won the CL which is what all the top clubs in the world want, domestic and European success and Liverpool have achieved that.
Guardiola is a different case where he hasn't won the CL for a number of years, but is capable of dominating any league he goes into. Maybe not as true this season, but he's almost a revolution for every club he goes at.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Yes I agree. They’re both brilliant, it’s fine margins in any of it. Think we’re very privileged they’re both at our teams currently.
Thankfully, there’s also far more mutual respect between them than than in the fanbases, the overly myopic and partisan elements of them at least.
the foundation of Klopp's aggressive press was built by Pep's Barca
------
Huh?
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, it’s posts like that made me not bother writing a lengthy answer in the first place, this site really isn’t worth it any more!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really... ?
Questioning peps tactics when down to ten men make you fed up?
Liverpool went down to ten men around the same minute mark with the game in the balance.. Liverpool won.
Think you need to give Klopp a lot more credit than you have done thus far for his tactical nouse.
I love Klopp and for us there is not another manager in the world that could've done a better job than him.
You also should choose between the two based on the project that your club wants to embark on. Both revolutionise their clubs in respective ways and both are the best at what they do.
There's a common misconception Klopp isn't as tactically astute as Pep which is utter bull crap imo. There's only one manager in world football that Pep doesn't have a better h2h record against. But both Pep & Klopp changed the game in their own way back at Barca & Dortmund respectively. Pep introduced a possession based system, with & without the ball, that incorporated pressing. Klopp introduced a pressing system both with & without the ball. None of them plucked these ideas out of thin air. These tactics existed in the past...but at that specific time, no one specific side was doing it at the level they were. At that time people were still in awe over the tactically rigid sides of Mourinho & Benitez etc. They both brought something new to the table.
Saying that...if you can't see the influence that Pep has had on Klopp both at Dortmund, after he joined Bayern and now Liverpool then you need to pay more attention. Just for his sheer influence at a global scale...Pep shades it for me.
If this current Liverpool team can win multiple league titles, with cups and another CL in the next 5 years while maintaining this current defensive brick wall and attacking verve...then we're talking about one of the most complete sides in football history...up there with Sacchi's Milan.
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} Super European Champions of the World (U2720)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
If this current Liverpool team can win multiple league titles, with cups and another CL in the next 5 years while maintaining this current defensive brick wall and attacking verve...then we're talking about one of the most complete sides in football history...up there with Sacchi's Milan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loved Sacchis Milan, the way they completely dismantled Barca in the final 4-0 was brilliant. Nobody gave them much hope with a side that was more functional than phenomenal but they executed perfectly.
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 12 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, it’s posts like that made me not bother writing a lengthy answer in the first place, this site really isn’t worth it any more!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really... ?
Questioning peps tactics when down to ten men make you fed up?
Liverpool went down to ten men around the same minute mark with the game in the balance.. Liverpool won.
Think you need to give Klopp a lot more credit than you have done thus far for his tactical nouse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What lack of credit have I given him? I even said in a different post how brilliant he was. Given the op was asking a general point, I’m not sure how taking an isolated game and also then just focussing on the result rather than the performance says anything at all.
Sign in if you want to comment
Klopp or Pep?
Page 5 of 8
6 | 7 | 8
posted on 2/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/2/20
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 4 minutes ago
Be interesting to see how Liverpool evolve from here
Dortmund fell off a cliff after they won the title under Klopp
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't they win 2 titles back to back? Then it wasn't until a few seasons after that they finished mid-table, and I could be wrong but that may have been the season after they sold Lewa to Bayern. So there's no reason to think Liverpool will significantly drop in form after this, their first PL win, although this is a stronger league with more competition so may be less chance of winning the title next season than him doing it with Dortmund in the Bundesliga.
posted on 2/2/20
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot (U1037)
posted 7 minutes ago
Be interesting to see how Liverpool evolve from here
Dortmund fell off a cliff after they won the title under Klopp
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if we did drop off under klopp in a season or two. What I will say is that he will have resources that he didn't at Dortmund.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you finish this season with just 1 or 2 loses in the last 2 seasons there is nowhere to go but down.
no loss no draws?
posted on 2/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/2/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Mane Man - WORLD CHAMPIONS-"Sadio, I’ll get him back don’t worry.” (U19731)
posted 18 minutes ago
We were fighting for 7th and 8th before Klopp took over with a lot of average players. 2013/2014 was an exception with Suarez in form.
He got rid of the mid table back four and goalkeeper we had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He spent a lot of money but he did so wisely. Wish we could say the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He lost a lot of valuable assets to get that money, an excuse Utd don't have to fall back on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you say that when we still haven’t replaced a lot of the key players we lost under Fergie? The players that have come in since can’t be described as key players since they’ve flopped almost without exception. United have spent poorly and until we get the structure of the club settled we will continue to struggle. At least Solskjaer is bringing some consistency to our policy.
posted on 2/2/20
For what it's worth the underlying metrics were still really good even in klopp's final season, finished 2nd on xG. Just a victim of unbelievably poor finishing
The New York Times did a piece last year about how it basically got Klopp the liverpool job
posted on 2/2/20
Didnt Bayern used to dismantle every team he built?
posted on 2/2/20
They're equal IMO. Both the best man for a specific type of club project & to date there's marginal evidence to say how one would compare in the other's circumstances.
I'll never buy the argument of "he's always had the resources" as a means of discrediting Pep, primarily as we've never seen how he'd fare at a slightly less club but there's nothing to suggest he wouldn't do well, all that can be said with a great degree of certainty is he's the best manager to have if you're the best club in town. His impact on how the game's played today really can't be understated - the foundation of Klopp's aggressive press was built by Pep's Barca, his teams have gone a long way to redefining the art of pressing in general. His avocation of positional play has changed the way all managers of his generation view how players should move without the ball while the teams in possession (in Sarri we had a manager who dedicated himself 100% to it). If these things were easy to implement just by being at the best clubs, Bielsa would have the best CV of all time.
Klopp to me represents the best mentality driven manager right now, he's overtaken Mourinho & replaced Ferguson in that respect. Outside of his particular brand of aggressive pressing there's nothing special about him tactically, his ability comes from his power of personality being in-sync with his playing style, players & fanbase, everything about Liverpool is cohesive right now and it stems from him. Similar to how Jose's profile & mentality in the noughties mirrored how we felt as fans and were perceived at that time - arrogant upstarts who everyone hated. Makes Klopp perfect for clubs who fall back on passion/energy as an identity.
Both top horses for courses managers.
posted on 2/2/20
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 24 minutes ago
For what it's worth the underlying metrics were still really good even in klopp's final season, finished 2nd on xG. Just a victim of unbelievably poor finishing
The New York Times did a piece last year about how it basically got Klopp the liverpool job
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That nyt article is a great read, too long for many on here though
posted on 2/2/20
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
We have to respect the fact that without Pep raising the standards with City to get to 100 points, Klopp's Liverpool would not have advanced to the sort of form they're in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep laid down the challenge.. Klopp smashed it.
Klopp > Pep
posted on 2/2/20
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
posted on 2/2/20
they've faced off 18 times so far, each time pep has been at the club with significantly greater resources available to him than his counterpart.
the head to head record
Klopp 9 wins 7 losses 2 draws
pep 7 wins 9 losses 2 draws
definitive evidential proof that Klopp > pep
posted on 2/2/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
posted on 2/2/20
Pep. He has consistently been the better manager.
Klopp can do well but yet to be consistent at a high level
posted on 2/2/20
hmm. so far this season
Klopp W 24 L 0 D 1
pep W 16 L 6 D 3
what was that about consistency???
posted on 2/2/20
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, it’s posts like that made me not bother writing a lengthy answer in the first place, this site really isn’t worth it any more!
posted on 2/2/20
Both excellent managers and you'd want them for different reasons. From their time in England, I'd prefer to have Klopp. Liverpool will win the league this season and have won the CL which is what all the top clubs in the world want, domestic and European success and Liverpool have achieved that.
Guardiola is a different case where he hasn't won the CL for a number of years, but is capable of dominating any league he goes into. Maybe not as true this season, but he's almost a revolution for every club he goes at.
posted on 2/2/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/2/20
Yes I agree. They’re both brilliant, it’s fine margins in any of it. Think we’re very privileged they’re both at our teams currently.
Thankfully, there’s also far more mutual respect between them than than in the fanbases, the overly myopic and partisan elements of them at least.
posted on 2/2/20
the foundation of Klopp's aggressive press was built by Pep's Barca
------
Huh?
posted on 2/2/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, it’s posts like that made me not bother writing a lengthy answer in the first place, this site really isn’t worth it any more!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really... ?
Questioning peps tactics when down to ten men make you fed up?
Liverpool went down to ten men around the same minute mark with the game in the balance.. Liverpool won.
Think you need to give Klopp a lot more credit than you have done thus far for his tactical nouse.
posted on 3/2/20
I love Klopp and for us there is not another manager in the world that could've done a better job than him.
You also should choose between the two based on the project that your club wants to embark on. Both revolutionise their clubs in respective ways and both are the best at what they do.
There's a common misconception Klopp isn't as tactically astute as Pep which is utter bull crap imo. There's only one manager in world football that Pep doesn't have a better h2h record against. But both Pep & Klopp changed the game in their own way back at Barca & Dortmund respectively. Pep introduced a possession based system, with & without the ball, that incorporated pressing. Klopp introduced a pressing system both with & without the ball. None of them plucked these ideas out of thin air. These tactics existed in the past...but at that specific time, no one specific side was doing it at the level they were. At that time people were still in awe over the tactically rigid sides of Mourinho & Benitez etc. They both brought something new to the table.
Saying that...if you can't see the influence that Pep has had on Klopp both at Dortmund, after he joined Bayern and now Liverpool then you need to pay more attention. Just for his sheer influence at a global scale...Pep shades it for me.
posted on 3/2/20
If this current Liverpool team can win multiple league titles, with cups and another CL in the next 5 years while maintaining this current defensive brick wall and attacking verve...then we're talking about one of the most complete sides in football history...up there with Sacchi's Milan.
posted on 3/2/20
comment by Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} Super European Champions of the World (U2720)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
If this current Liverpool team can win multiple league titles, with cups and another CL in the next 5 years while maintaining this current defensive brick wall and attacking verve...then we're talking about one of the most complete sides in football history...up there with Sacchi's Milan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loved Sacchis Milan, the way they completely dismantled Barca in the final 4-0 was brilliant. Nobody gave them much hope with a side that was more functional than phenomenal but they executed perfectly.
posted on 3/2/20
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 12 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 33 minutes ago
For man management and motivation, Klopp. For tactics, Guardiola.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah? Ok
How did it go with ten men, tactically proficient enough to get a draw? No?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, it’s posts like that made me not bother writing a lengthy answer in the first place, this site really isn’t worth it any more!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really... ?
Questioning peps tactics when down to ten men make you fed up?
Liverpool went down to ten men around the same minute mark with the game in the balance.. Liverpool won.
Think you need to give Klopp a lot more credit than you have done thus far for his tactical nouse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What lack of credit have I given him? I even said in a different post how brilliant he was. Given the op was asking a general point, I’m not sure how taking an isolated game and also then just focussing on the result rather than the performance says anything at all.
Page 5 of 8
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