Mercedes will argue that the rule was not followed (they have a point); Masi will argue that he is race director and what he views to be the right decision goes.
Then the argument will ensue as to whether that’s an abuse of power, etc.
The instruction Masi gave was for car numbers a, b, c, d and e to overtake the leader
I don't see anything in the rules that says Masi can't give an order like that.......and I don't see anything in the rules that says certain things must happen with the safety car if an instruction like that is given
As Martin Brindle has just said, at some point it comes down to the race directors discretion
He decided to let them race, and moved the lapped cars between them out the way
I agree that there’s probably nothing in the rules that say Masi can’t do that - in total honesty, I haven’t read all of the rules!
The issue is that sporting regulations tell Masi what he CAN do, not what he can’t do.
If there was a single historic precedent of letting cars 1-4 through and no more, I’d be more inclined to say what happened was fine, but I think that’s the only time in history!
I’d certainly be annoyed if I were Mercedes or a Merc fan and I think Masi would have totally abused his power if he decided to make up a rule on the last race of the season.
Be interesting to see how it plays out
And as also said
Back in SA, Masi offered Red Bull "a deal" regards where Verstappen would be placed on the grid for a restart, so he made a decision, that wasn't legislated for, at that point
He's not making rules up...he is making a decision in a given situation
That's his job
One thing I’ll say right now is that if anything comes of the second protest - overtaking under a safety car - then that’s the FIA conceding that Masi messed up and trying any way they can to fix it whilst saving their blushes.
He stuck a nose ahead for maybe a second and then Lewis went immediately back in front. No lasting advantage whatsoever.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 5 seconds ago
Max won, get over it. Hamilton has gotten a fair share going his way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a cultured and well-informed response.
It’s obviously a point of contention well worth debating, which is the point of what we do, here. Further evidenced by the fact that Mercedes have levied two appeals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they appeal Toto wouldnt be Toto if he wouldnts.
Toto before the race: We hope the race gets decided on the track
Toto after the race: The race was decided on the track so we will appeal
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
One thing I’ll say right now is that if anything comes of the second protest - overtaking under a safety car - then that’s the FIA conceding that Masi messed up and trying any way they can to fix it whilst saving their blushes.
He stuck a nose ahead for maybe a second and then Lewis went immediately back in front. No lasting advantage whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis was breaking hard and driving stupid slow to get Max in front of him. And what is overtaking? A nose length or a car length?
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 5 seconds ago
Max won, get over it. Hamilton has gotten a fair share going his way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a cultured and well-informed response.
It’s obviously a point of contention well worth debating, which is the point of what we do, here. Further evidenced by the fact that Mercedes have levied two appeals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they appealToto wouldnt be Toto if he wouldnts.
Toto before the race: We hope the race gets decided on the track
Toto after the race: The race was decided on the track so we will appeal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t it was decided by the FIA
comment by MK (U9129)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 5 seconds ago
Max won, get over it. Hamilton has gotten a fair share going his way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a cultured and well-informed response.
It’s obviously a point of contention well worth debating, which is the point of what we do, here. Further evidenced by the fact that Mercedes have levied two appeals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they appealToto wouldnt be Toto if he wouldnts.
Toto before the race: We hope the race gets decided on the track
Toto after the race: The race was decided on the track so we will appeal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t it was decided by the FIA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To let them race.
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 37 seconds ago
And as also said
Back in SA, Masi offered Red Bull "a deal" regards where Verstappen would be placed on the grid for a restart, so he made a decision, that wasn't legislated for, at that point
He's not making rules up...he is making a decision in a given situation
That's his job
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was an offer so that it wouldn’t go to the stewards, which both teams accepted. This is quite different.
Red Bull accepted that because they knew that if it went to the stewards, they’d lose out, based on the regulations (that is, the regulations would still need to be followed in full).
Lastly, the communication of the decision making again absolutely stunk today. First stating that lapped cars could not unlap themselves, then changing it to those four cars.
You’d have thought after the shenanigans in the last race that the communication at the very least would have been clear and decisive.
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
One thing I’ll say right now is that if anything comes of the second protest - overtaking under a safety car - then that’s the FIA conceding that Masi messed up and trying any way they can to fix it whilst saving their blushes.
He stuck a nose ahead for maybe a second and then Lewis went immediately back in front. No lasting advantage whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis was breaking hard and driving stupid slow to get Max in front of him. And what is overtaking? A nose length or a car length?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am agreeing that the second protest is absolutely daft. But, it did strictly happen, and that if the FIA decide to take action over it, it is them conceding that Masi messed up the race, and not that actual incident.
So it's no longer about who was the better driver it's about rules changes and technicalities
The communication wasn't farcical in my view
Masi wanted the race to end on the track, not behind the SC
The instruction not to allow lapped cars to pass was done as Masi didn't think it could be done in time to allow for one last lap of racing.
He then followed that up to allow the cars between Max and Lewis to pass
So the second decision, for me, wasn't a contradiction, it was an add-on to the first decision, as there was time to do it
If there wasn't time...it wouldn't have been made
What a way to destroy what had been an amazing season. Massi has to resign. Mercedes have a strong case to sue the FIA for financial compensation, but it would be inhuman to overturn the result now, however unjust it is.
,
You’re clutching, Stevie. Are you a relative of Mr. Masi!?
It obviously caused confusion and annoyance on the track, as is evidenced by Max & his engineer’s conversation.
Ultimately, while I’d prefer Lewis to win, I don’t want this done by a steward’s ruling. I’d much prefer it if - and this absolutely won’t ever happen - they called the race a no contest and rescheduled for next week!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I wanted an interview with heat of the moment Toto!! It would have been television gold!
I don’t expect we’ll get a final judgement until this eve…
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
You’re clutching, Stevie. Are you a relative of Mr. Masi!?
It obviously caused confusion and annoyance on the track, as is evidenced by Max & his engineer’s conversation.
Ultimately, while I’d prefer Lewis to win, I don’t want this done by a steward’s ruling. I’d much prefer it if - and this absolutely won’t ever happen - they called the race a no contest and rescheduled for next week!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clutching at what??
Of course Red Bull were annoyed with it.....and Masi's response was "give me time"
He didn't think there was time for all the lapped cars to pass...but realised there was time for those between the leaders to do so...so that's what he did
I’ve said the communication was bad again given that it’s two consecutive weeks of significant confusion amongst the teams, and you’ve agreed with me that there was significant confusion, but said that the comms weren’t bad?
The confusion is derivative of the comms.
On a side note, I would love to see footage of whatever is being said in the steward’s room right now
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
You’re clutching, Stevie. Are you a relative of Mr. Masi!?
It obviously caused confusion and annoyance on the track, as is evidenced by Max & his engineer’s conversation.
Ultimately, while I’d prefer Lewis to win, I don’t want this done by a steward’s ruling. I’d much prefer it if - and this absolutely won’t ever happen - they called the race a no contest and rescheduled for next week!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clutching at what??
Of course Red Bull were annoyed with it.....and Masi's response was "give me time"
He didn't think there was time for all the lapped cars to pass...but realised there was time for those between the leaders to do so...so that's what he did
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are missing the point. The rules are clear about safety car. Mercedes made their pit stop decision based on those rules and then Massi decided to rip up the rule book in the dying seconds of the season.
He is a dead man walking and the FIA are a laughing stock.
I'm pleased with the result. The best man won it this year. Max got the luck at the right time but he's deserved it. Lewis must be sick. It couldn't of ended any better.
But as I said earlier, it would be inhuman for the decision to be reversed now. Massi needs to resign and the FIA need to admitted got it wrong.
Mercedes pit stop decision was forced based on Lewis track position when the safety car was deployed
We heard Bono and Lewis discuss things, and they thought the race could stop under the SC, but they were not sure
Mercedes pit stop decision in the middle of the race, wasn't forced...and that's the reason why Lewis had very old hard tyres still on his car come the last lap
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted less than a minute ago
But as I said earlier, it would be inhuman for the decision to be reversed now. Massi needs to resign and the FIA need to admitted got it wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it shouldn’t be overturned but Masi should be sacked
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 10 minutes ago
What a way to destroy what had been an amazing season. Massi has to resign. Mercedes have a strong case to sue the FIA for financial compensation, but it would be inhuman to overturn the result now, however unjust it is.
,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Financial compensation? For what? They won constuctors, which pays the millions
Sign in if you want to comment
Abu Dhabi GP - MAX WDC
Page 25 of 45
26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30
posted on 12/12/21
Mercedes will argue that the rule was not followed (they have a point); Masi will argue that he is race director and what he views to be the right decision goes.
Then the argument will ensue as to whether that’s an abuse of power, etc.
posted on 12/12/21
The instruction Masi gave was for car numbers a, b, c, d and e to overtake the leader
I don't see anything in the rules that says Masi can't give an order like that.......and I don't see anything in the rules that says certain things must happen with the safety car if an instruction like that is given
As Martin Brindle has just said, at some point it comes down to the race directors discretion
He decided to let them race, and moved the lapped cars between them out the way
posted on 12/12/21
I agree that there’s probably nothing in the rules that say Masi can’t do that - in total honesty, I haven’t read all of the rules!
The issue is that sporting regulations tell Masi what he CAN do, not what he can’t do.
If there was a single historic precedent of letting cars 1-4 through and no more, I’d be more inclined to say what happened was fine, but I think that’s the only time in history!
I’d certainly be annoyed if I were Mercedes or a Merc fan and I think Masi would have totally abused his power if he decided to make up a rule on the last race of the season.
Be interesting to see how it plays out
posted on 12/12/21
And as also said
Back in SA, Masi offered Red Bull "a deal" regards where Verstappen would be placed on the grid for a restart, so he made a decision, that wasn't legislated for, at that point
He's not making rules up...he is making a decision in a given situation
That's his job
posted on 12/12/21
One thing I’ll say right now is that if anything comes of the second protest - overtaking under a safety car - then that’s the FIA conceding that Masi messed up and trying any way they can to fix it whilst saving their blushes.
He stuck a nose ahead for maybe a second and then Lewis went immediately back in front. No lasting advantage whatsoever.
posted on 12/12/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 5 seconds ago
Max won, get over it. Hamilton has gotten a fair share going his way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a cultured and well-informed response.
It’s obviously a point of contention well worth debating, which is the point of what we do, here. Further evidenced by the fact that Mercedes have levied two appeals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they appeal Toto wouldnt be Toto if he wouldnts.
Toto before the race: We hope the race gets decided on the track
Toto after the race: The race was decided on the track so we will appeal
posted on 12/12/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
One thing I’ll say right now is that if anything comes of the second protest - overtaking under a safety car - then that’s the FIA conceding that Masi messed up and trying any way they can to fix it whilst saving their blushes.
He stuck a nose ahead for maybe a second and then Lewis went immediately back in front. No lasting advantage whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis was breaking hard and driving stupid slow to get Max in front of him. And what is overtaking? A nose length or a car length?
posted on 12/12/21
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 5 seconds ago
Max won, get over it. Hamilton has gotten a fair share going his way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a cultured and well-informed response.
It’s obviously a point of contention well worth debating, which is the point of what we do, here. Further evidenced by the fact that Mercedes have levied two appeals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they appealToto wouldnt be Toto if he wouldnts.
Toto before the race: We hope the race gets decided on the track
Toto after the race: The race was decided on the track so we will appeal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t it was decided by the FIA
posted on 12/12/21
comment by MK (U9129)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 5 seconds ago
Max won, get over it. Hamilton has gotten a fair share going his way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a cultured and well-informed response.
It’s obviously a point of contention well worth debating, which is the point of what we do, here. Further evidenced by the fact that Mercedes have levied two appeals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they appealToto wouldnt be Toto if he wouldnts.
Toto before the race: We hope the race gets decided on the track
Toto after the race: The race was decided on the track so we will appeal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t it was decided by the FIA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To let them race.
posted on 12/12/21
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 37 seconds ago
And as also said
Back in SA, Masi offered Red Bull "a deal" regards where Verstappen would be placed on the grid for a restart, so he made a decision, that wasn't legislated for, at that point
He's not making rules up...he is making a decision in a given situation
That's his job
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was an offer so that it wouldn’t go to the stewards, which both teams accepted. This is quite different.
Red Bull accepted that because they knew that if it went to the stewards, they’d lose out, based on the regulations (that is, the regulations would still need to be followed in full).
Lastly, the communication of the decision making again absolutely stunk today. First stating that lapped cars could not unlap themselves, then changing it to those four cars.
You’d have thought after the shenanigans in the last race that the communication at the very least would have been clear and decisive.
posted on 12/12/21
comment by One Love - Admin 3 (U1250)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
One thing I’ll say right now is that if anything comes of the second protest - overtaking under a safety car - then that’s the FIA conceding that Masi messed up and trying any way they can to fix it whilst saving their blushes.
He stuck a nose ahead for maybe a second and then Lewis went immediately back in front. No lasting advantage whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis was breaking hard and driving stupid slow to get Max in front of him. And what is overtaking? A nose length or a car length?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am agreeing that the second protest is absolutely daft. But, it did strictly happen, and that if the FIA decide to take action over it, it is them conceding that Masi messed up the race, and not that actual incident.
posted on 12/12/21
So it's no longer about who was the better driver it's about rules changes and technicalities
posted on 12/12/21
The communication wasn't farcical in my view
Masi wanted the race to end on the track, not behind the SC
The instruction not to allow lapped cars to pass was done as Masi didn't think it could be done in time to allow for one last lap of racing.
He then followed that up to allow the cars between Max and Lewis to pass
So the second decision, for me, wasn't a contradiction, it was an add-on to the first decision, as there was time to do it
If there wasn't time...it wouldn't have been made
posted on 12/12/21
What a way to destroy what had been an amazing season. Massi has to resign. Mercedes have a strong case to sue the FIA for financial compensation, but it would be inhuman to overturn the result now, however unjust it is.
,
posted on 12/12/21
You’re clutching, Stevie. Are you a relative of Mr. Masi!?
It obviously caused confusion and annoyance on the track, as is evidenced by Max & his engineer’s conversation.
Ultimately, while I’d prefer Lewis to win, I don’t want this done by a steward’s ruling. I’d much prefer it if - and this absolutely won’t ever happen - they called the race a no contest and rescheduled for next week!
posted on 12/12/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/12/21
I wanted an interview with heat of the moment Toto!! It would have been television gold!
I don’t expect we’ll get a final judgement until this eve…
posted on 12/12/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
You’re clutching, Stevie. Are you a relative of Mr. Masi!?
It obviously caused confusion and annoyance on the track, as is evidenced by Max & his engineer’s conversation.
Ultimately, while I’d prefer Lewis to win, I don’t want this done by a steward’s ruling. I’d much prefer it if - and this absolutely won’t ever happen - they called the race a no contest and rescheduled for next week!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clutching at what??
Of course Red Bull were annoyed with it.....and Masi's response was "give me time"
He didn't think there was time for all the lapped cars to pass...but realised there was time for those between the leaders to do so...so that's what he did
posted on 12/12/21
I’ve said the communication was bad again given that it’s two consecutive weeks of significant confusion amongst the teams, and you’ve agreed with me that there was significant confusion, but said that the comms weren’t bad?
The confusion is derivative of the comms.
On a side note, I would love to see footage of whatever is being said in the steward’s room right now
posted on 12/12/21
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted about a minute ago
You’re clutching, Stevie. Are you a relative of Mr. Masi!?
It obviously caused confusion and annoyance on the track, as is evidenced by Max & his engineer’s conversation.
Ultimately, while I’d prefer Lewis to win, I don’t want this done by a steward’s ruling. I’d much prefer it if - and this absolutely won’t ever happen - they called the race a no contest and rescheduled for next week!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clutching at what??
Of course Red Bull were annoyed with it.....and Masi's response was "give me time"
He didn't think there was time for all the lapped cars to pass...but realised there was time for those between the leaders to do so...so that's what he did
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are missing the point. The rules are clear about safety car. Mercedes made their pit stop decision based on those rules and then Massi decided to rip up the rule book in the dying seconds of the season.
He is a dead man walking and the FIA are a laughing stock.
posted on 12/12/21
I'm pleased with the result. The best man won it this year. Max got the luck at the right time but he's deserved it. Lewis must be sick. It couldn't of ended any better.
posted on 12/12/21
But as I said earlier, it would be inhuman for the decision to be reversed now. Massi needs to resign and the FIA need to admitted got it wrong.
posted on 12/12/21
Mercedes pit stop decision was forced based on Lewis track position when the safety car was deployed
We heard Bono and Lewis discuss things, and they thought the race could stop under the SC, but they were not sure
Mercedes pit stop decision in the middle of the race, wasn't forced...and that's the reason why Lewis had very old hard tyres still on his car come the last lap
posted on 12/12/21
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted less than a minute ago
But as I said earlier, it would be inhuman for the decision to be reversed now. Massi needs to resign and the FIA need to admitted got it wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it shouldn’t be overturned but Masi should be sacked
posted on 12/12/21
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 10 minutes ago
What a way to destroy what had been an amazing season. Massi has to resign. Mercedes have a strong case to sue the FIA for financial compensation, but it would be inhuman to overturn the result now, however unjust it is.
,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Financial compensation? For what? They won constuctors, which pays the millions
Page 25 of 45
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